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Tippis posted:Speaking of Chemical Manipulators: for a combat ship, which Power Distributor mod is better? Weapon (so you can give it fewer pips and still be running at full tilt) or Charge Enhanced (because regen is king) or something else? That depends entirely on what you want to do. My Explo-Cutter for example is getting a level 3 engine focused mod so I can undersize it one size more than normal without losing boost-capability. Is your largest possible distributor size still rather small and doesn't have much capacity? Give your Eagle a gift and get a mod to upgrade your recharge. Do you have a slow, heavily armored ship? Put down a weapon-focused mod and let your shields and engines suffer while your weapons weep tears of joy. Stuff like that.
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Aug 4, 2016 18:13
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Libluini posted:That depends entirely on what you want to do. My Explo-Cutter for example is getting a level 3 engine focused mod so I can undersize it one size more than normal without losing boost-capability. I'm lazy and keeps assigning power to the wrong place in the middle of a fight and just want to leave it at 2/2/2.  (It's for a Fer-de-Lance.)
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Aug 4, 2016 18:21
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Tippis posted:I'm lazy and keeps assigning power to the wrong place in the middle of a fight and just want to leave it at 2/2/2. That's... really terrible. One of the cornerstones of "Gittin Gud" is learning how to properly manage our reactor output, putting the power pips where they need to be at just the right moment. About to get rammed? Better put 4 pips to SYS. Fighter trying to run away? Put more pips into ENG. Just brawling it out toe to toe? Split between SYS and WEP. that kind of thing. A Power Distributor mod isn't going to make things that much better if you aren't managing your power systems properly.
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Aug 4, 2016 18:28
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Kurr de la Cruz posted:That's... really terrible. Even more so on the FDL where ENG pips make a vast difference to turning ability :o
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Aug 4, 2016 18:34
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Pff. If I wanted to git gud, I wouldn't bother to upgrade. legooolas posted:Even more so on the FDL where ENG pips make a vast difference to turning ability :o But that's just it: this ship rather requires pips in everything at all times. Brawling it out means you need WEP and SYS to deal and take damage and ENG to manoeuvre properly. In fact, if anything, it needs WEP the least, but draining it means you run dry far too quickly and putting a WEP mod in rather seems like it would just ruin the other two too much… so Charge mod?
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Aug 4, 2016 18:40
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Recently put a nice upgrade on my pure trading Clipper's Class 4 engine, but when I finally got around to trimming off some unneeded hardware last night, I realized I could probably get away with a tuned Class 3.  Did I hear correctly that you can sell/buyback tuned parts? Not that it's a huge deal, but could I conceivably buy a cheap ship, slap that Class 4 into it, and store it, just in case I might want to use that tuned engine in another ship later?
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Aug 4, 2016 20:01
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Trustworthy posted:Did I hear correctly that you can sell/buyback tuned parts? Not that it's a huge deal, but could I conceivably buy a cheap ship, slap that Class 4 into it, and store it, just in case I might want to use that tuned engine in another ship later? It is my understanding that this is correct. It is also dumb. Cmon fdev we need storage.
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Aug 4, 2016 20:04
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Trustworthy posted:Recently put a nice upgrade on my pure trading Clipper's Class 4 engine, but when I finally got around to trimming off some unneeded hardware last night, I realized I could probably get away with a tuned Class 3. This is correct — tried and tested and very very tedious.
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Aug 4, 2016 20:07
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Tippis posted:Pff. If I wanted to git gud, I wouldn't bother to upgrade. Engineer mods aren't going to fix your terrible piloting. Pip management - and exploiting your opponent's pip management, at least against players - is a vital part of combat. It's a game of tradeoffs and optimization.
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Aug 4, 2016 20:15
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Main Paineframe posted:Engineer mods aren't going to fix your terrible piloting. Pip management - and exploiting your opponent's pip management, at least against players - is a vital part of combat. It's a game of tradeoffs and optimization. So… Charge Enhancement?
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Aug 4, 2016 20:45
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Tippis posted:So… Charge Enhancement?  yes. Just go with that.
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Aug 4, 2016 21:11
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Tippis posted:So… Charge Enhancement? Sell the FDL.
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Aug 4, 2016 21:14
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Buy a vulture instead.
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Aug 4, 2016 21:30
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Kurr de la Cruz posted:
Well, what are the arguments for the other ones? Especially since the whole point here is that you rather need everything at some point or another, often in conjunction. I mean, we could just keep harping on about a flippant comment I made, or we could actually discuss the merits and flaws of the different options… Blind Rasputin posted:Buy a vulture instead. Got one. It flies differently and does other things. It also has a very obvious discrepancy between what it can fit and what its PD is meant to support.
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Aug 4, 2016 21:39
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Then mod it. Put the high recharge PD on it with an overcharge power plant. Then you can fit anything on it and it will outperform your fdl in a heartbeat. If your not looking for ways to improve though just fly a type 9 and trade because pips and the like are majorly important from a side winder all the way up to a vette and conda. If you can't understand that 4 pips to sys =2x mj shield's there's not much anyone can tell you to help you.
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Aug 4, 2016 21:54
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UCS Hellmaker posted:Then mod it. Put the high recharge PD on it with an overcharge power plant. The Vulture? Nah, it got a WEP enhancement since neither shields nor engines are drained all that much, whereas the oversized weapons chew through energy frightfully quickly. The FdL, on the other hand, puts reasonably equal pressure on all three in my experience. But if there's a good case for any of the other boosts, I'd like to hear them. quote:If you can't understand that yadda yadda blargh blargh
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Aug 4, 2016 22:11
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I understand exactly what pips do. I just don't want to bother while flying. Actually managing pips properly without it being super annoying would require macros, and that's just stupid. There's one pip too many to manage, for absolutely no reason. What FD should do is remove the engine pip. Energy you don't have in weap or sys goes to engine automatically. That alone would make managing them a lot less annoying to me because I'd need 2 buttons and max 4 simultaneous button presses to achieve whatever state I want from any other state. Instead of having a full hat dedicated to it (and hats are clunky too, IMO) and having to go reset -> 2 to wep -> 3 to sys to go 4/0/2. hmmm... I wonder if it's possible to make a macro script that emulates this behaviour.
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Aug 4, 2016 22:12
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Truga posted:I understand exactly what pips do. I just don't want to bother while flying. Actually managing pips properly without it being super annoying would require macros, and that's just stupid. There's one pip too many to manage, for absolutely no reason. It is. Any keyboard or mouse with programmable buttons will let you do it pretty easily. In fact, it probably takes longer to figure out all the different pip combinations you think you need (and a bit longer to figure out that you don't actually need some of those at all) than it does to program it. There might be some key/UI responsiveness you need to time properly to make it work smoothly, but that's about it.
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Aug 4, 2016 22:19
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Tippis posted:…which, of course, is just some ignorant BS someone made up, presumably because actually offering an informed opinion was too much effort. From the manual, page 15:  And this is exactly how much more powerful:  Distributor management is an intentionally micro-intensive task. Mods or no mods, ignoring it entirely will severely limit a ship's capabilities - 2 pips is barely more resistant than 0, and the entire reason for it is to incentivise on-the-fly swapping to whatever suits the situation best. Edit: Removed some sass Chrysophylax fucked around with this message at 22:52 on Aug 4, 2016 |
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Aug 4, 2016 22:47
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Chrysophylax posted:From the manual, page 15: And?
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Aug 4, 2016 22:50
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Chrysophylax posted:From the manual, page 15: This has held and been the same since release, good way to test it is go put 4 pips to shields and hit a station with a weapon, time how long you last before your shields drop. Then repeat it with no pips. its the easiest test and you see massive differences. Now imagine that in a fight with a larger ship. Theres a reason why smaller ships can take bigger ships and its not just skill and weapons but being able to tank the hits till you get out of the firing range. 2 pips can mean losing shields and then thrusters compared to being able to swing around to a blind spot. Or being able to tank the hits of a larger ship to run away in your trade ship till you can jump away. 4 pips can mean having enough power to tank the hits and still move away while 4 eng pips may get you away faster, but lose your shields then take a missile enema which leaves you drifting.
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Aug 4, 2016 22:53
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A vulture with big shields and two boosters with all 4 pips is basically indestructible in a RES.
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Aug 4, 2016 23:04
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A Biweave Vulture with 2 boosters, 2 chaff and fancy flying is borderline OP, and pretty zen at times.
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Aug 4, 2016 23:08
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Blind Rasputin posted:A vulture with big shields and two boosters with all 4 pips is basically indestructible in a RES. Pretty much, yeah. That's why I felt it didn't really lose anything from being WEP-boosted. Of course, good rolls on the shield and engine penalties helped.
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Aug 4, 2016 23:10
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Man, now that this patch has changed everything I really need to do some engineers. The only one I have open is Todd the blaster guy to get some level two overcharged large machine guns. Are the shield and power distributor engineers pretty easy to get moving on? The possible grind just locks my mind up and I don't know why.
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Aug 5, 2016 00:10
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Blind Rasputin posted:Man, now that this patch has changed everything I really need to do some engineers. The only one I have open is Todd the blaster guy to get some level two overcharged large machine guns. Are the shield and power distributor engineers pretty easy to get moving on? It's actually not that bad anymore. You get triple the amount of materials from drops, and the tier 1 patterns only take 1 basic material to craft. You can sit there and craft tier 1 patterns until you max out your rank.
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Aug 5, 2016 00:30
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Does a graph exist for engine pips impacting turn speed? I'm surprised that 1 pip is no more resistant than 0 pips. I need to optimize my macro.
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Aug 5, 2016 00:34
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Blind Rasputin posted:Man, now that this patch has changed everything I really need to do some engineers. The only one I have open is Todd the blaster guy to get some level two overcharged large machine guns. Are the shield and power distributor engineers pretty easy to get moving on? They're both fairly trivial. The Dweller (power distributors) requires you to deal in 5 black markets to get an invite. Bump him up to grade 3.5 and he reveals Lei Cheung (shields), who requires you to trade in 50 regular markets to get the invite. If you can stand “only“ having grade-3 shield mods, you can go for Elvira Martuuk instead, who requires you to have travelled at least 300 Ly from the starting system. Beyond the invite, you also need to pay them: 500k Cr for The Dweller; 200 gold for Lei, and/or 3 Soontill Relics for Elvira.
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Aug 5, 2016 00:36
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timn posted:Does a graph exist for engine pips impacting turn speed? I'm surprised that 1 pip is no more resistant than 0 pips. I need to optimize my macro. Not that I've ever seen. Unlike SYS pips, ENG ones depend a lot on the ship (including total mass) and thrusters, so I imagine each ship will have a different curve. Related tho: 
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Aug 5, 2016 01:01
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Tippis posted:And? ...and effectively managing the pips will do orders of magnitude more than upgrading your distributor. I mean, if you don't want people to help, don't ask questions? You're basically going "HAY GUYS I WANT MY CAR TO GO FASTER SHOULD I GET A SPOILER OR BIGGER EXHAUST PIPE" and then getting mad when everyone says that neither one of those will actually make your car go faster. Blind Rasputin posted:Man, now that this patch has changed everything I really need to do some engineers. The only one I have open is Todd the blaster guy to get some level two overcharged large machine guns. Are the shield and power distributor engineers pretty easy to get moving on? Fly out to Sothis and pick up a few missions, then fly out to Ngurii and grab 3 Soontill Relics, then fly out to Khun for Elvira Martuuk and sell all of your exploration data to her and start grinding out fsd/shield/engine mods until you unlock the later guys! No grind needed!
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Aug 5, 2016 01:26
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Natsuumi posted:Jaques currently has no station services, so if you head that way plan to be totally self-sufficient. The CG going on out there right now is to repair the station to get those services back though.  https://community.elitedangerous.com/galnet/uid/57a320d79657baa84c34e14c
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Aug 5, 2016 01:29
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Toxic Fart Syndrome posted:...and effectively managing the pips will do orders of magnitude more than upgrading your distributor. quote:I mean, if you don't want people to help, don't ask questions? I'm basically going “hey guys, I want to upgrade my PD — should I focus on a single system or get the general regen (or maybe even the capacity upgrade), and if so, why?” I did mention pips as one consideration because of how it affects weapon energy regen and the ability to keep firing, but that was it. At no point did I ask how to manage my pips. And yet, that was the only non-question people wanted to answer, in the most illiterately condescending manner possible. So… I'll ask my question again: for a combat ship — specifically, the FdL — which Power Distributor mod is better? Weapon (so you can give it fewer pips and still be running at full tilt) or Charge Enhanced (because regen is king) or something else? Tippis fucked around with this message at 01:37 on Aug 5, 2016 |
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Aug 5, 2016 01:34
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I haven't done the upgrade yet for my FDL, but I'm planning on the Charge Enhanced mod. It really does seem like the best PD mod for the FDL, unless you have all energy weapons and need extra juice there.
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Aug 5, 2016 02:41
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Tippis posted:So… I'll ask my question again: for a combat ship — specifically, the FdL — which Power Distributor mod is better? Weapon (so you can give it fewer pips and still be running at full tilt) or Charge Enhanced (because regen is king) or something else? The answer to this depends on how good you are at managing your pips, how you prefer to play the ship, and what the ship is equipped with. If you boost a lot, a WEP focused distributor might not be the greatest thing. If you are slow at allocating pips, a more capacity mod might be the way to go. If you care a lot about positioning but you're good at managing pips and want some gun too, charge enhanced. Now that engineers has been de-grinded you can actually find what works for you without wanting to quit playing  I personally run with WEP enhanced because it suffices for how I play the NPCs. If I was gonna pvp I'd go with charge enhanced, probably
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Aug 5, 2016 02:41
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Tippis posted:So… I'll ask my question again: for a combat ship — specifically, the FdL — which Power Distributor mod is better? Weapon (so you can give it fewer pips and still be running at full tilt) or Charge Enhanced (because regen is king) or something else?  Tippis posted:Pff. If I wanted to git gud, I wouldn't bother to upgrade. This is why people wont answer the question you want: because it is moot. With 2/2/2 you could put whatever mod you want on it and it won't do a fraction of the benefits that pip management would. By pointing out that it is a combat ship you are telling us what you are using it for and how it will be used. Under those conditions, nothing you do to your distributor will do as much as managing pips, which you said you didn't care to do. To answer the question of which is better for a combat ship, I would only go with the weapon mod if you find yourself running out of wep power all the time in fights. If not, get the charge enhanced.
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Aug 5, 2016 02:53
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Tippis, learn to pip manage, man. I believe in you.  Meanwhile, Elite Goons, if you're not reading the PGS thread I have resumed my storytimes.   Graaaceeee Beater..... Come read about the time we destroyed a supposedly "triple elite" guild because they were mean to a goon who didn't want to use Teamspeak.
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Aug 5, 2016 03:02
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Toxic Fart Syndrome posted:This is why people wont answer the question you want: because it is moot. With 2/2/2 you could put whatever mod you want on it and it won't do a fraction of the benefits that pip management would. By pointing out that it is a combat ship you are telling us what you are using it for and how it will be used. Under those conditions, nothing you do to your distributor will do as much as managing pips, which you said you didn't care to do.  I first made a joke that I'm too lazy to do it. Subsequent posts — including the one you quoted — explained the matter in more detail: from my experience, and as suggested by others, you need them all. Hence why my instinct was to go with an enhancement that seems to benefit all systems — fast recharge — as opposed to focusing on one of them to the detriment of the others. quote:To answer the question of which is better for a combat ship, I would only go with the weapon mod if you find yourself running out of wep power all the time in fights. If not, get the charge enhanced. Literally Kermit posted:Tippis, learn to pip manage, man. I believe in you.
Tippis fucked around with this message at 03:21 on Aug 5, 2016 |
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Aug 5, 2016 03:19
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I would love a link to the basics of pip management or an effort post about it. I've been moving them around, mostly full engines or weapons depending on whether I was chasing someone or shooting them. I didn't realize it effected maneuvering and shield strength instead of just recharge rate. For specifics a poorly optimized vulture for rez farming.
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Aug 5, 2016 03:50
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honda whisperer posted:I would love a link to the basics of pip management or an effort post about it. I've been moving them around, mostly full engines or weapons depending on whether I was chasing someone or shooting them. I didn't realize it effected maneuvering and shield strength instead of just recharge rate. Here are the basics: 1. If you are taking hits, 4 pips to SYS. Otherwise 0. 3 pips does basically nothing. 2. If you are using gimballed weapons, 4 pips to SYS while shooting. It makes them aim better. 3. If you want to shoot but are running low on WEP charge, pips in WEP. 4. If you are chasing/dodging, more pips in ENG as needed (Coriolis will show you speed vs. pips for your loadout) 5. Otherwise, balance everything to charge it all up. I use an autohotkey script to make each pip assignment instantly max out that category (pressing the key for me four times), which takes a lot of the pain away: http://pastebin.com/0iYJqnKQ
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Aug 5, 2016 05:16
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jnnnnn posted:2. If you are using gimballed weapons, 4 pips to SYS while shooting. It makes them aim better.
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Aug 5, 2016 09:22
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