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Elsa posted:I'm going to make some good points Um, yeah, i doubt that.
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Aug 4, 2016 13:12
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Carth Dookie posted:You're already known for drawing Disney princess poontang. You could be lady scarlet sized and still not have enough free surface area to insert another metaphorical dagger, much less find a vital organ. A good post.
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Aug 4, 2016 15:49
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FranktheBank posted:What are the big differences between Thanatos ad Nidhogg? Completely PVE related. if you're going for a complete pve fit it's fairly even; the fighter speed bonus might make pve slightly faster, but the thanatos fighter ehp bonus might save you from losing fighters (which costs a lot) for pve both can be shield fit; allowing you to max out the lows with damage/tracking/warpspeed/istab mods
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Aug 4, 2016 16:58
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Carth Dookie posted:Disney princess poontang
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Aug 4, 2016 17:14
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ullerrm posted:Well, the ECM Burst module has plenty of legit uses, too -- it's just got some bugs. I'd rather just see CCP fix those bugs. Fair enough. I don't ever recall having used ECM Bursts myself or the need for them except when some dumb RKK guy uses one for some dumb reason while we're trying to gank a guy and almost cost us securing the kill. quote:From my POV, I don't really care about crime and punishment; poo poo happens, and sometimes you may legit not know that you were abusing a bug (altho in this case it seems pretty obvious). More concerned that people who've lost their caps to it get compensated. In this case, I don't think there's any reason to punish anyone. CCP didn't state that the ECM Burst thing was an exploit right? They've also not given bans retroactively and usually go on a "you didn't know, but now you do so don't gently caress it up" approach.
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Aug 4, 2016 18:27
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I still have 20 injectors for sale at 600 million each.
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Aug 4, 2016 18:31
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Unfunny Poster posted:In this case, I don't think there's any reason to punish anyone. CCP didn't state that the ECM Burst thing was an exploit right? They've also not given bans retroactively and usually go on a "you didn't know, but now you do so don't gently caress it up" approach. Still break the spirit of the law. Law being : stuff is untouchable when thetered.
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Aug 4, 2016 18:57
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Unfunny Poster posted:In this case, I don't think there's any reason to punish anyone. CCP didn't state that the ECM Burst thing was an exploit right? They've also not given bans retroactively and usually go on a "you didn't know, but now you do so don't gently caress it up" approach. CCP has unambiguously declared it an exploit. https://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/eve-online-news/exploit-warning-using-ecm-bursts-to-pvp-flag-tethered-ships/ I expect no bans to come out of this. CCP is indeed reluctant to do retroactive punishments -- and more to the point, Fozzie wouldn't approve of any potential PL comeuppance  It probably begins the process for that Titan pilot to get his ship back, and that's all I care about.
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Aug 4, 2016 19:02
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Krogort posted:Still break the spirit of the law. Except it's not. It's supposed to be but CCP says it's OK to bump until it's fixed but we're going to go radio silent on this other thing until someone kills a titan and then we're going to declare that an exploit but not reimburse modules that drop and not punish anybody  I agree it was almost certainly done in bad faith but doing anything about it would put CCP in a bad spot and basically prove globby right.
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Aug 4, 2016 19:03
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Morris posted:I agree it was almost certainly done in bad faith but doing anything about it would put CCP in a bad spot and basically prove globby right.
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Aug 4, 2016 19:37
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Now now, it's entirely possible the ECM burst was there for totally not hunting-capitals-on-citadels reasons. And it's entirely coincidental that the elite hotdrop altcorp Hound doctrine seems to have been adjusted overnight  https://zkillboard.com/kill/55389128/ https://zkillboard.com/kill/55409984/
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Aug 4, 2016 20:15
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ullerrm posted:CCP has unambiguously declared it an exploit. What I meant by "CCP didn't declare this an exploit" was that it wasn't stated as such when it happened (of course that doesn't mean it isn't bad in a different way though), but now that its been clearly said "hey don't do this" i have zero sympathy for anyone caught doing it now. Retroactively banning someone for it though doesn't seem likely given CCP's history. When something like this happens, does CCP take the loot that was dropped from people who picked it up or do they leave that stuff be?
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Aug 4, 2016 21:29
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Morris posted:prove globby right. This would be an unforgivable crime.
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Aug 4, 2016 21:30
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Unfunny Poster posted:What I meant by "CCP didn't declare this an exploit" was that it wasn't stated as such when it happened (of course that doesn't mean it isn't bad in a different way though), but now that its been clearly said "hey don't do this" i have zero sympathy for anyone caught doing it now. Retroactively banning someone for it though doesn't seem likely given CCP's history. Maybe it sounds like a strawman argument but this translates to "it's not a foul if the referee doesn't call it"
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Aug 4, 2016 22:57
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silentsnack posted:Maybe it sounds like a strawman argument but this translates to "it's not a foul if the referee doesn't call it" You're right, what you said is a strawman. CCP didn't state that it was against the rules in any formal capacity until today, everything preceding it was speculation by the players. It's bad to compare video games to sports but here we go: back in the day with UFC 1 there was only two rules "no biting & no eye gouging" everything else was fair game and people did stuff like kick a downed (on all fours) opponent, punch people in the dick a bunch, etc. Those weren't fouls because the rules never said they weren't allowed, however later on they changed the rules to disallow that sort of stuff. There's a difference between that sort of thing, which is closer to what CCP have done here, than your comparison where you're acting as though it had been a longstanding rule not to use the ECM technique issued by CCP.
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Aug 4, 2016 23:57
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yeah i know how to aggress any super/titan on login or on jump in on a pos and a citadel without an ecm burst, ask me anything.
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Aug 5, 2016 00:07
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Unfunny Poster posted:You're right, what you said is a strawman. CCP didn't state that it was against the rules in any formal capacity until today, everything preceding it was speculation by the players. Other than the fact that all modules in the game with the exception of that one wouldn't cause the effect. So you're forced to choose really, the people using this exploit were incredibly stupid, or they knew it was a violation of the intent of citadel gameplay but figured they would get away with it since CCP hadn't officially ruled it an exploit yet. Pick one: Either they are dumb or they acted in bad faith.
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Aug 5, 2016 00:26
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His point was that they won't get punished for it because it happened before CCP declared it an exploit, so it doesn't actually matter whether they knew it was abusable.
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Aug 5, 2016 02:38
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^ pretty much.
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Aug 5, 2016 02:42
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Unfunny Poster posted:You're right, what you said is a strawman. CCP didn't state that it was against the rules in any formal capacity until today, everything preceding it was speculation by the players. I neither know nor care how Eve and UFC compare to sports or anything else; the decisions about what's fair and what's foul are ultimately up to the person with the ability to change the rules or just declare "game over: player A is disqualified/permabanned and B wins by default" at any time for any arbitrary reason or for no reason at all. It doesn't matter whether or not anyone gets retroactively punished for breaking the not-rules, we get to observe meltdowns all across the internet as people randomly fling accusations about anything and everything except for unconstitutional anti-sodomy legislation. Because that just wouldn't make sense. If we are to extrapolate the reasoning of prior arguments--and as long as acknowledging it's just made up for laughs means we're allowed to decide what everyone else said/did or what the words they never wrote actually meant--the important part in all this is the attempt to defend a group of presumably rational mature adults who seem to be alternating between (A) the deliberately obtuse pedantic rules-lawyer method of justifying certain actions, and (B) celebrating with "we got away with it this time just like we get away with it every time nyeah nyeah!" In the end nobody ever really knows anything and nothing truly matters, yet sometimes people still find a way to take games too seriously. e: Eve Online: the spaceship sandbox that is not *technically* a mental illness. Yet. silentsnack fucked around with this message at 07:20 on Aug 5, 2016 |
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Aug 5, 2016 05:01
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SperginMcBadposter posted:His point was that they won't get punished for it because it happened before CCP declared it an exploit, so it doesn't actually matter whether they knew it was abusable. First that's not what he was saying. He's gonna switch arguments to that because he realizes he's gonna lose. But, sure, nothing will happen. But it should. It was obvious that CCP intended for tethering to work in a certain way, the usual suspects found a module that got around that behavior, and abused it. They should eat 1 month ban for it, but they wont.
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Aug 5, 2016 06:41
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If I were pl I'd just loving laugh at this furor instead of trying to hide behind all sorts of bullshit 'unless it's written in stone it's legal'
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Aug 5, 2016 07:17
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pseudanonymous posted:First that's not what he was saying. He's gonna switch arguments to that because he realizes he's gonna lose. As usual you're wrong. My point from the beginning, whether you want to believe it or not, is that CCP aren't going to retroactively ban someone for something that wasn't declared an exploit until after it happened. They've never done it before and its not going to happen in this situation no matter how much wailing people do over it. If they were to do that, it sets a bad precedent and it'd mean that tons of people should be retroactively banned for various exploits they committed in the past prior to the dev post declaring it an exploit. CCP won't do that because it'd not only be silly and bad also for business overall. The most CCP will do is reimburse the loss, issue the exploit warning, and then if anyone else uses the exploit they'll ban them. Mekchu fucked around with this message at 13:42 on Aug 5, 2016 |
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Aug 5, 2016 13:30
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You're right, punishing people for cheating would be "bad for business".
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Aug 5, 2016 14:31
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pseudanonymous posted:You're right, punishing people for cheating would be "bad for business". Unironically yes. EVE sells itself in large part on its "emergent gameplay". Laugh at that all you will, but CCP's approach is probably better for the game overall. People can be inventive and push the boundaries without worrying that if they push a little too hard into the grey area, they'll get banhammered into oblivion.
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Aug 5, 2016 15:06
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ChickenWing posted:Unironically yes. thats the problem though, its all at CCP's whim.
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Aug 5, 2016 15:43
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Reverand maynard posted:thats the problem though, its all at CCP's whim. And always has been? There's been precedent on multiple occasions where someone finds some new exploit and uses it to either kill something they shouldn't have or break some kind of mechanic over their knee to make mad bank. They've always reimbursed the loss/confiscated the Ill gotten gains, made a public notice that X is now an exploit get banned if you do it. It's been this way for over 10 years, why is "at CCP's whim" a problem with this particular case? If anything their whims have been pretty consistent.
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Aug 5, 2016 17:08
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rocket_Magnet posted:And always has been? There's been precedent on multiple occasions where someone finds some new exploit and uses it to either kill something they shouldn't have or break some kind of mechanic over their knee to make mad bank. They've always reimbursed the loss/confiscated the Ill gotten gains, made a public notice that X is now an exploit get banned if you do it. CCP doesn't like certain styles of gameplay - most notably suicide/hisec ganking and hisec "safaris" (as well as scamming), which they've really worked to limit these activities are unlike what you'd ever find in most other MMOs, and probably have a direct correlation with the victims being less likely to continue playing EVE
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Aug 5, 2016 18:50
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Landsknecht posted:CCP doesn't like certain styles of gameplay - most notably suicide/hisec ganking and hisec "safaris" (as well as scamming), which they've really worked to limit I highly doubt they give a poo poo about "certain styles of gameplay". I'd go so far as to say they're probably impressed when someone comes up with something new (hyperdunking anyone?). The only thing the number crunchers in there give a rats rear end about is income growth. So those crunchers send a 6 page report over to design saying "yo, subscriber growth is negative and plex sales are down, time to ban the latest thing that is plaguing highsec!" and they have little to no choice, because at the end of the day business needs to make money, no matter what the product is. In a world of no money issues I guarantee they'd leave some of that crazy poo poo alone and globby would still be hyperdunking happily.
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Aug 5, 2016 18:56
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Well if they like it but decide they need to discourage it for business reasons is that so different in the end?
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Aug 5, 2016 19:00
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Morris posted:Well if they like it but decide they need to discourage it for business reasons is that so different in the end? For us, not in the slightest. For the developers and designers? Basically no different from your boss telling you what to do in any other job. In any case, I reckon I speak for most people when I say we'd rather have new blood joining and staying than <insert largely-abusive mechanic here>.
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Aug 5, 2016 19:03
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I'm dangerously close to having fun with this game. Delve is so cool guys. There's so much fighting, I can undock and get into a scrap just three jumps from Sakht with whatever I'm willing to fly. I love the Slicer so much: https://zkillboard.com/kill/55424870/ I love how Drop turns it into a murder machine. I love how much damage it does from fuckoff ranges. I even love how badly I've been getting owned every time I screw up. I love drugs, I love lasers, this game is good, go and PvP.
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Aug 6, 2016 04:00
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Magic Rabbit Hat posted:I'm dangerously close to having fun with this game. I've been dabbling in solo PVP. I'm awfully bad at it though  I might just stick to ganking miners.
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Aug 6, 2016 04:58
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pseudanonymous posted:You're right, punishing people for cheating would be "bad for business". The problem isn't the players doing cheeky poo poo that they aren't supposed to be able to do. The problem is CCP making mistakes that allow it to happen and then also not taking a stance promptly once their fuckups are discovered by the player base at large. Since neither of those things are likely to start happening, we're better off with CCP handling these as they have been, which is to reimburse the loss and state a policy moving forward. We really do not their loving GMs retroactively deciding what was and was not a bannable exploit based on the offender's corp ticker. They just need to be doing this as soon as it becomes a known issue. Voyager I fucked around with this message at 05:52 on Aug 6, 2016 |
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Aug 6, 2016 05:49
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Voyager I posted:We really do not their loving GMs retroactively deciding what was and was not a bannable exploit based on the offender's corp ticker. If CCP was even halfway non-retarded they would strip out information like that from characters before they make a decision. Especially given all the problems with favoritism and outright cheating that have occurred in the past (with the exact group of players under discussion no less).
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Aug 6, 2016 06:27
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Today is my 4th month birthday in Eve. Today I finally was able to sit in my Nidhoggur. 
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Aug 6, 2016 06:49
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Magic Rabbit Hat posted:I'm dangerously close to having fun with this game.  A man after my own heart.
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Aug 6, 2016 09:41
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Oh, are my Amarr skills finally useful again? Time to resub!
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Aug 6, 2016 11:08
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Magic Rabbit Hat posted:I'm dangerously close to having fun with this game. What do you do when you encounter a lone... svipul
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Aug 6, 2016 12:08
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MorsAnima posted:What do you do when you encounter a lone... svipul Apply chemo...
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Aug 6, 2016 15:35
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