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Hey guys my name is Julian Assange and I'm going to release some serious shady poo poo about the Turkish president! *instead releases millions of e-mails between normal Turkish citizens as well as a shitload of personal details, including names, addresses, phone numbers and political affiliations* Take that, jews!!!
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Aug 6, 2016 23:29
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Dr Cheeto posted:Shockingly not everyone shares your blasé attitude towards a indiscriminate and omnipresent intelligence dragnet It's not my fault you apparently chose to live in ignorance, and pretend that all the technological spying activities the government was bragging about doing in other countries for over half a century would stop at US borders. It only takes a small amount of critical thought to realize that if the US government was openly tapping communication lines in say East Berlin, and sneaking modified electronics into Minsk, then of course they would do the same to targets inside the US. And that's to say nothing of how the fact this stuff was being done in the US proper was repeatedly reported by multiple leakers who got into national news in the 90s and 2000s. But of course you forgot about what they revealed, just as you'll probably forget about Snowden revealed. Start here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_641A This was revealed to the public at large in 2006, and anyone who stopped to think for a moment would understand that such equipment would easily be placed for things that weren't going out of the country. fishmech fucked around with this message at 23:31 on Aug 6, 2016 |
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Aug 6, 2016 23:29
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Lessail posted:Fascinating move to lump the two together
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Aug 6, 2016 23:30
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Casimir Radon posted:One is a Russian stooge and a rapist. The other is possibly a Russian stooge, and in fact is at best a libertarian shithead. I wouldn't be surprised if Snowden /hates/ that he's stuck in Russia.
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Aug 6, 2016 23:32
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iospace posted:I wouldn't be surprised if Snowden /hates/ that he's stuck in Russia. I'm sure he does. I think calling him a 'stooge' is dumb, 'pawn' is more fitting since it implies a less eager relationship. Dude was stupid and somehow didn't know HK was Chinese controlled and Russia was all he had. I don't blame him for not wanting to go to jail, I don't want to go to jail either. That said pretending he'd get the Manning treatment as a civilian is absurd, as is the hilarious "I BET THEY'D JUST FUCKIN KILL HIM" poo poo. He was a dude who would rather not go to a prison in the US, that's understandable as it is, you don't need to pretend to not know the difference between military and civilian courts or whatever.
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Aug 6, 2016 23:36
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https://twitter.com/eliotnelson/status/762055283405230080 https://twitter.com/eliotnelson/status/762055447532535808
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Aug 6, 2016 23:43
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Dirt posted:I have a question about the whole NSA spying thing. I've basically always assumed the government had access to your Internet and mobile phone usage. Yes on both accounts. I suspect you're young because pre-9/11 the government had almost No official ability to collect anything without a warrant. The idea that an agency can unilaterally get any info it wants without ant sort of oversight or check on it's power is very new and should terrify you. FactsAreUseless posted:Look at it like this: at this point, having embarrassing poo poo in your internet history is so ubiquitous, the only correct response is to just not care. This is true but misses the point. The bigger issue is that this kind of power is a recipe for abuse. Dick pics are just a useful example but he government could also use this info to do stuff like undermine political opponents or weed out union activity on behalf of well-connected corporate interests. There's actually a LOT to be worried about. readingatwork fucked around with this message at 23:50 on Aug 6, 2016 |
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Aug 6, 2016 23:45
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rscott posted:Nah, you're not reading what I'm saying correctly. My personal belief is that the conventional notion of privacy is outdated and hadn't caught up to reality yet. It's inevitable and something that can't be changed without basically uninventing networked computers. The only safeguards to abuse of that data are cultural, not technological or legal. Most people haven't reconciled themselves with that idea yet and that's why they're up in arms about it. *Flags post as unpatriotic* *Puts user on secret government watch list* E: Oh, and universal encryption solves most of these problems without having to rely on the outrage of an ignorant and jaded public. Just saying. readingatwork fucked around with this message at 23:53 on Aug 6, 2016 |
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Aug 6, 2016 23:48
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Completely unfounded and stirred up only by demagogues in an effort to win votes...?
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Aug 6, 2016 23:48
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https://twitter.com/daveweigel/status/762055890983718913
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Aug 6, 2016 23:48
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Inferior Third Season posted:If you're going to compile a list of "mysterious deaths", don't start it off with a heart attack in solitary confinement, possibly the least mysterious way of dying imaginable. 
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Aug 6, 2016 23:52
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readingatwork posted:I suspect you're young because pre-9/11 the government had almost No official ability to collect anything without a warrant. The idea that an agency can unilaterally get any info it wants without ant sort of oversight or check on it's power is very new and should terrify you. Other than how they did that poo poo constantly throughout the cold war, sure. None of that poo poo was actually new. readingatwork posted:This is true but misses the point. The bigger issue is that this kind of power is a recipe for abuse. Dick pics are just a useful example but he government could also use this info to do stuff like undermine political opponents or weed out union activity on behalf of well-connected corporate interests. There's actually a LOT to be worried about. So they could continue doing what they've been doing since 1915? Wow, truly unprecedented. Seriously dude you come off naive as hell. You have a lot of learning to do.
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Aug 6, 2016 23:52
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I'm honestly surprised that people are so angry at Snowden. I can understand Assange, he seems like a douche, and real shady, but Snowden legitimately seems like a guy who wanted to do the right thing, and expose what many people at the time, thought was completely in the realm of conspiracy theories and tinfoil-wearing nut jobs. Also, if you think that people knew how bad it was before Snowden, you're delirious (also, they still don't). Snowden aside though, the indifference towards creating an american (or global really) STASI, except far more effective, seems really weird to me. If you're not concerned about something like that, you haven't been paying attention to history. Also, In the name of what? Fighting terrorism? Uncovering satanist plots to lure our children into playing D&D?
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Aug 6, 2016 23:54
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fishmech posted:Other than how they did that poo poo constantly throughout the cold war, sure. None of that poo poo was actually new. There's a big difference between the government doing something illegally and off the books and them codifying their shady bullshit into law.
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Aug 6, 2016 23:56
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No one's gone from internet hero to idiot stooge nearly as fast as Snowden. He did a public service dragging into the public eye how IPs were ridiculously complicit in forking over data with zero resistance, because there was proof after that and not just tin foil hattery that could be dismissed offhandedly. The guy took his best shots from a very short list of places to claim asylum because lol if you think he wasn't being put in a deep dark hole if he got caught. Now that things have settled down he may get a pardon depending on how dumb he was talking to the Russians. I'm holding off ultimate judgement until there's more than just flying rumors but until I hear he gave Putin the nuclear launch codes or something then he's done something worthwhile.
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Aug 6, 2016 23:56
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Casimir Radon posted:One is a Russian stooge and a rapist. The other is possibly a Russian stooge, and in fact is at best a libertarian shithead. I think people struggle with the notion that you can say someone is a shitheel and that something they've done is a good thing and should have been done, even if it leads to consequences for that person. Martyrs for the cause should be perfect examples, and all that. Just because Edward Snowden is a moron and a libertarian idiot doesn't mean what he did wasn't valuable, and even if you think he should go to jail for it, you shouldn't say what he did was (entirely) bad. I won't condone him releasing information on the intelligence work against foreign sources, because that was monumentally stupid and if he's punished for anything, it should be for that. That said, Snowden will probably spend either the better part of the next twenty odd years, or the rest of his life (depending on the moods of who becomes President in the next few elections) before he ever gets to see the US again, let alone live without fear of getting snatched by a CIA team. quote:Snowden aside though, the indifference towards creating an american (or global really) STASI, except far more effective, seems really weird to me. If you're not concerned about something like that, you haven't been paying attention to history. Also, In the name of what? Fighting terrorism? Uncovering satanist plots to lure our children into playing D&D? Honestly, I feel the same way towards the surveillance state as I do about globalization, in that I don't think it can be stopped or reversed and a lot of the resources we'd spend trying would be better spent elsewhere. The practical negative effect of the American surveillance state on the average person is negligible and I can't get worked up about it versus, say, the Black Lives Matter movement or efforts to raise the minimum wage and labor standards, etc. Lightning Knight fucked around with this message at 00:01 on Aug 7, 2016 |
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Aug 6, 2016 23:58
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TapTheForwardAssist posted:Wrap it up Ryanailures, the ever-relevant Sarah Palin has endorsed Harley-ridin', tattooed, arm-wrestling patriot Nehlen: How do you pronounce this guy's name because oh my God they could make the Nehlen / Palin ticket a REAL THING
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Aug 6, 2016 23:58
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readingatwork posted:There's a big difference between the government doing something illegally and off the books and them codifying their shady bullshit into law. 99.9% of that poo poo was already legal, legalized in a thousand different ways over the course of the Cold War. The Patriot Act merely made it nice and neat in one big thing, but if you dug into how, say the COINTELPRO stuff was done, you'll find it was pretty much all actually legal once you sorted through everything involved. And when it wasn't explicitly legal, it was at least not explicitly illegal. Lightning Knight posted:Just because Edward Snowden is a moron and a libertarian idiot doesn't mean what he did wasn't valuable, and even if you think he should go to jail for it, you shouldn't say what he did was (entirely) bad. The reason it wasn't valuable is because it has already been largely forgotten, just like the last 20 leaks and revelations before him.
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Aug 7, 2016 00:04
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Cardboard Box A posted:Well we know what this means. Hillary has a Death Note. "Elderly couple knows many dead people" is genuinely one of my absolute favorite conspiracies.
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Aug 7, 2016 00:06
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Casimir Radon posted:Are the basement dwelling Snowden/Assange apologists still here? What utter tripe. Go look at a loving map before you make such scurrilous accusations next time. Some of us live in locations that just can't have basements, you monster. FIRST TIME posted:Just do what Trump does and say something like, "the numbers are... well, you wouldn't believe me if I told you, they're outrageous" and then just move on. Tangentially, I was listening to the radio in the car earlier, and it appears that Tim Kaine has made his "Believe Me" bit a part of his stump speech. It's pretty great.
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Aug 7, 2016 00:10
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Has anyone noted how loving ironic it is that Ollie North is accusing someone of trading something for hostages with Iran?
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Aug 7, 2016 00:11
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Chokes McGee posted:No one's gone from internet hero to idiot stooge nearly as fast as Snowden. He did a public service dragging into the public eye how IPs were ridiculously complicit in forking over data with zero resistance, because there was proof after that and not just tin foil hattery that could be dismissed offhandedly. I think people confuse dude-in-a-rough-place Edward Snowden with noted-total-shithead Julian Assange. Not that Snowden's perfect but he at least had good intentions before he got Putin'd(not that he really had a choice), Assange just wants to push his narrative/stir poo poo up/get attention.
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Aug 7, 2016 00:13
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SquadronROE posted:Has anyone noted how loving ironic it is that Ollie North is accusing someone of trading something for hostages with Iran? Where's that lol nothing matters gif when you need it? How anyone on the right can bring it up like it's a serious thing while worshiping Reagan is amazing.
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Aug 7, 2016 00:14
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Revelation 2-13 posted:I'm honestly surprised that people are so angry at Snowden. I can understand Assange, he seems like a douche, and real shady, but Snowden legitimately seems like a guy who wanted to do the right thing, and expose what many people at the time, thought was completely in the realm of conspiracy theories and tinfoil-wearing nut jobs. Also, if you think that people knew how bad it was before Snowden, you're delirious (also, they still don't). It's one part the government aggressively pushing a narrative and one part defensive reactionary thinking. The idea that an organization as huge and powerful as the US government could also be deeply corrupt and use your personal life against you is pretty scary and it's human nature when presented with a scary idea to aggressively find some way to ignore the info. One such technique is to attack the messenger, which conveniently allows you to disregard anything they say. Lightning Knight posted:Honestly, I feel the same way towards the surveillance state as I do about globalization, in that I don't think it can be stopped or reversed and a lot of the resources we'd spend trying would be better spent elsewhere. Morality aside why is either of these things inevitable? Globalization can be easily reversed with new tariffs, laws and trade restrictions. Likewise the surveillance state can be ended tomorrow with a few new laws and a requirement that all public communication be encrypted. We could also completely defund the CIA/NSA if we wanted. This is very much within our power.
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Aug 7, 2016 00:15
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SquadronROE posted:Has anyone noted how loving ironic it is that Ollie North is accusing someone of trading something for hostages with Iran? It had been previously noted.
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Aug 7, 2016 00:15
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Dr Cheeto posted:I mean considering the NSA had been intercepting consumer electronics in transit to install spyware, yeah. The level of surveillance went beyond any reasonable interpretation of the information available before the Snowden leak imo. No it most certainly did not, very few people just ever bother to read the Church Committee report because it is enormous and dull but it was made very clear in 1975 that we've been engaging in the same sort of thing for ages. That doesn't mean I think Snowden was wrong to leak it, a mass leak of FBI documents by burglary in 1971 is why the Committee even happened atelier morgan fucked around with this message at 00:19 on Aug 7, 2016 |
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Aug 7, 2016 00:17
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Nessus posted:-A post of wonder- 1984 would be so much better if it turns out room 101 was as badly run as trumps campaign. An occasional shout of "Yuge!" is heard from down the corridors.
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Aug 7, 2016 00:17
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readingatwork posted:This is true but misses the point. The bigger issue is that this kind of power is a recipe for abuse. Dick pics are just a useful example but he government could also use this info to do stuff like undermine political opponents or weed out union activity on behalf of well-connected corporate interests. There's actually a LOT to be worried about.
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Aug 7, 2016 00:17
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Nessus posted:Bad things like national deficits and terrorist attacks exist solely to serve the needs of the Party. When the Party needs them not to matter; they do not. When the Party needs them to justify a planned war; they do. When the Party needs them to demonstrate the weakness of a President who is not in the Party, even if that President is following the same policy as the previous fellow - who was in the Party - then they do exactly that. 2016 US election.txt
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Aug 7, 2016 00:18
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oh god who is this orange man and why is he in the Command Center
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fishmech posted:99.9% of that poo poo was already legal, legalized in a thousand different ways over the course of the Cold War. The Patriot Act merely made it nice and neat in one big thing, but if you dug into how, say the COINTELPRO stuff was done, you'll find it was pretty much all actually legal once you sorted through everything involved. And when it wasn't explicitly legal, it was at least not explicitly illegal. I seriously doubt you're right but even if so that just makes things worse, not better. quote:The reason it wasn't valuable is because it has already been largely forgotten, just like the last 20 leaks and revelations before him. For something that's been forgotten we sure are talking about it a lot.
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Aug 7, 2016 00:22
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readingatwork posted:
Globalization isn't "easily reversible" at all, it's been in place since the 1900s and truly cutting imports to the bare minimum would mean radical changes in your daily life. Similarly ending electronic surveillance essentially requires the abandonment of 90% of our existing communications technology for things that were actually built around privacy from the start. It's not even a question of ending direct US surveillance, you're still getting covered by dozens of rich nations and hundreds of companies, many of whom will give it up to the US when asked. The internet, cell phones, even regular phones are fundamentally anti-private. readingatwork posted:I seriously doubt you're right but even if so that just makes things worse, not better. Seems weird and hosed up to doubt case law and the US code of law, but ok. And yes that's the point: the ignorant view is oh this is some new bad thing. In reality it's a "bad" thing that's been going on since before your parents were born. You keep only referring to it like it was just found out with SNowden, and additionally the public at large sure as poo poo ain't talking about it.
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Aug 7, 2016 00:24
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Yinlock posted:I think people confuse dude-in-a-rough-place Edward Snowden with noted-total-shithead Julian Assange. Pretty much my views. I wouldn't have much sympathy if Snowden ended up here and tried and convicted, but I will say he did have good intentions.
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Aug 7, 2016 00:25
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SquadronROE posted:Has anyone noted how loving ironic it is that Ollie North is accusing someone of trading something for hostages with Iran? 2016 is a cycle of near pure insanity, with thing like the Mussolini inspired GOP candidate feuding with a literal loving baby comprising the top tier of insane poo poo that's happened. It's really pretty impressive that Ollie still manages to stay within sight of the top insane things with his full throated condemnation of all manner of trades with Iran.
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Aug 7, 2016 00:26
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Mahoning posted:This isn't a good look for Obama, considering just yesterday he was saying "The Iran deal worked, just ask Israel!" Keep in mind, Avigdor Lieberman (the MoD) is a hardliner with, let's say, 'interesting' history. When he was the foreign minister he started a boycott of Mossad (!!), congratulated Putin for fair elections (his party's base consists of Jews from ex-USSR) and has repeatedly compared Arab members of Knesset to terrorists. While his party supports a separate Palestinian state, they also want to move all Arabs from Israel to Gaza and West Bank as part of that plan. Oh and of course he's been investigated over corruption because this is Israel and all ministers take bribes, but as a special nugget he's also been convicted for punching and threatening a child who his son had claimed had hit him. In other words, he's the (((Trump))) for Israel.
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Aug 7, 2016 00:26
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Gyges posted:Tangentially, I was listening to the radio in the car earlier, and it appears that Tim Kaine has made his "Believe Me" bit a part of his stump speech. It's pretty great. I love that my knee jerk reaction to it, and everything else Kaine says, is "oh god he's so lame", but he sells it in such an earnest lame-dad way it goes all the way around to bring really charming.
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Aug 7, 2016 00:27
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Josef bugman posted:1984 would be so much better if it turns out room 101 was as badly run as trumps campaign. An occasional shout of "Yuge!" is heard from down the corridors.
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Aug 7, 2016 00:27
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UberJew posted:No it most certainly did not, very few people just ever bother to read the Church Committee report because it is enormous and dull but it was made very clear in 1975 that we've been engaging in the same sort of thing for ages. Thanks for the link! I was woefully ignorant of this report.
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Aug 7, 2016 00:27
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Thaddius the Large posted:I love that my knee jerk reaction to it, and everything else Kaine says, is "oh god he's so lame", but he sells it in such an earnest lame-dad way it goes all the way around to bring really charming.
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Aug 7, 2016 00:28
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Swagger Dagger posted:https://twitter.com/eliotnelson/status/762055283405230080 God she's so awful. The only upside to third party candidates getting some time in the spotlight is that it'll show they are in fact flawed and lovely candidates and there's a reason their parties are insignificant in politics on every level.
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Aug 7, 2016 00:31
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Evil Fluffy posted:God she's so awful. The only upside to third party candidates getting some time in the spotlight is that it'll show they are in fact flawed and lovely candidates and there's a reason their parties are insignificant in politics on every level. Gloria La Riva is super cool, actually, unlike Jill Stein and the homeopathy party
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Aug 7, 2016 00:32
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