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Gyges posted:Hillary Clinton is a very left wing person by American standards who took from her struggles in Arkansas and Washington that the best way to get things done was through incrementalism. Remember that Hillary and Bill came into office and tried to get gays the ability to openly serve in the military and pass universal health care. The resulting backlash got them as far as Don't Ask Don't Tell and stuck them with DOMA, while comprehensive health care reform was shelved for another 16 years. It's also what lead to the Clintons going along with Welfare Reform. Meanwhile she found that she could get bits and pieces of her original health care plan through congress in a piecemeal fashion. She found that this method of getting drips and drabs of her true agenda passed worked much better than pushing it all at once. Meanwhile she stayed on the left edge of the party as the party itself moves leftward.
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Aug 7, 2016 22:45
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A lot of Hillary's progressive actions focus on children and families which is not something that immediately comes to mind for a lot of this forum.
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Aug 8, 2016 05:09
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And small business owners which i count as a negative because small business owners are some of the worst people on the planet by and large
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Aug 8, 2016 05:11
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Al! posted:And small business owners which i count as a negative because small business owners are some of the worst people on the planet by and large what has she done or what does she plan to differently from obama on small business besides pander? I honestly don't know. is this based on the third way stuff from the 90s?
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Aug 8, 2016 05:17
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Zas posted:what has she done or what does she plan to differently from obama on small business besides pander? I honestly don't know. is this based on the third way stuff from the 90s? One of the good things about fhe Hillary campaign is that its incredibly detail oriented so if it's a thing you can bet she has a specific plan for it: https://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/small-business/
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Aug 8, 2016 05:20
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Plucky small business owner is a legend of times long past. Now a days they're either actually not a small business in terms of cash flow or they're total poo poo fucks trying to squeeze every dime out of their labor.
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Aug 8, 2016 05:24
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DemeaninDemon posted:Plucky small business owner is a legend of times long past. They've always been utter assholes. The reason why we support small businesses is so there's enough of them that no one gets strong enough to challenge the feds.
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Aug 8, 2016 05:38
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computer parts posted:They've always been utter assholes. The reason why we support small businesses is so there's enough of them that no one gets strong enough to challenge the feds. Hmmm I agree. Mostly because people suck in general and get way worse when they feel they're special little snowflakes.
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Aug 8, 2016 05:41
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computer parts posted:A lot of Hillary's progressive actions focus on children and families which is not something that immediately comes to mind for a lot of this forum. I don't see some of those things as inherently "far-left" though, because they're things a lot of Republicans want also, even if they're not party-line. Republican voters, that is. For example, a fair number of Republican women do want paid maternity leave. A considerable number of Republican voters do want some common-sense restrictions on gun sales. A considerable number of Republican voters think the cost of college tuition is too high.
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Aug 8, 2016 05:44
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Pick posted:I don't see some of those things as inherently "far-left" though, because they're things a lot of Republicans want also, even if they're not party-line. Republican voters, that is. There are very few issues that average people inherently oppose*. The issue is usually paying for those policies. If the only thing that separates progressives and conservatives is "I want this, and we need to pay for it" and "I want this, but we can't afford it", it's kind of a meaningless distinction. *Abortion is an example of one of these that is inherently opposed.
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Aug 8, 2016 05:50
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I think it's specifically different than things like demilitarizing the police and the death penalty. I do think there are plenty of remaining issues based on ideology.
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Aug 8, 2016 05:54
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Pick posted:I don't see some of those things as inherently "far-left" though, because they're things a lot of Republicans want also, even if they're not party-line. Republican voters, that is. Those Republicans are in favor of leftward policies then.
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Aug 8, 2016 05:59
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Gyges posted:Hillary Clinton is a very left wing person by American standards who took from her struggles in Arkansas and Washington that the best way to get things done was through incrementalism. Remember that Hillary and Bill came into office and tried to get gays the ability to openly serve in the military and pass universal health care. The resulting backlash got them as far as Don't Ask Don't Tell and stuck them with DOMA, while comprehensive health care reform was shelved for another 16 years. It's also what lead to the Clintons going along with Welfare Reform. Meanwhile she found that she could get bits and pieces of her original health care plan through congress in a piecemeal fashion. She found that this method of getting drips and drabs of her true agenda passed worked much better than pushing it all at once. Meanwhile she stayed on the left edge of the party as the party itself moves leftward. The big thing that Bernouts hammered her on was her connection to big banks while glossing over her work in the 90s and claiming she only supports what's popular at the time.
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Aug 8, 2016 06:05
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iospace posted:The big thing that Bernouts hammered her on was her connection to big banks while glossing over her work in the 90s and claiming she only supports what's popular at the time. Yea that's what happens when 20 year olds who grew up hearing Rush Limbaugh on their parents radios think they know poo poo because they vaguely remember some conspiracies.
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Aug 8, 2016 07:37
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it's always a hoot to ask a young person why they hate hillary, they will usually hem and haw and eventually stammer out something about emails or honduras.
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Aug 8, 2016 07:41
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then ask them if their dad listened to right wing talk radio
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Aug 8, 2016 07:41
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Al! posted:it's always a hoot to ask a young person why they hate hillary, they will usually hem and haw and eventually stammer out something about emails or honduras. Most of the liberals I know that dislike her are due to foreign policy, which is real
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Aug 8, 2016 07:45
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gently caress You And Diebold posted:Most of the liberals I know that dislike her are due to foreign policy, which is real Such as? Other than vague promises that she secretly is planning to invade Syria I've not seen many good explanations of the actual plans she has that are bad
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Aug 8, 2016 08:02
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Plus she probably sits at the left end of the entire field that is not "hey let's sit passively while Russia remakes the Warsaw Pact and dismantles NATO" this year (and looky looky I might not just be talking about Trump)
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Aug 8, 2016 08:05
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Gyges posted:Hillary Clinton is a very left wing person by American standards who took from her struggles in Arkansas and Washington that the best way to get things done was through incrementalism. Remember that Hillary and Bill came into office and tried to get gays the ability to openly serve in the military and pass universal health care. The resulting backlash got them as far as Don't Ask Don't Tell and stuck them with DOMA, while comprehensive health care reform was shelved for another 16 years. It's also what lead to the Clintons going along with Welfare Reform. Meanwhile she found that she could get bits and pieces of her original health care plan through congress in a piecemeal fashion. She found that this method of getting drips and drabs of her true agenda passed worked much better than pushing it all at once. Meanwhile she stayed on the left edge of the party as the party itself moves leftward. If Hillary is very left wing then why did she oppose gay marriage for most of her political career until literally just recently? Why did she vote for Bush's Iraq War? and why did she make speeches promoting Her husbands mass incarceration bill referring to african American males as "super predators who need to be brought to heel"? I guess oppressing gays and blacks and being pro Wall Street and a hawk = very liberal to you? All of her talk now is lip service to energize Bernie and Obama voters and those "detailed plans" on her website are about as realistic as all of Obamas utopian campaign promises that disappeared the second he became president-elect. Having said all that I'll probably vote for her but I think people should understand what they're getting here.
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Aug 8, 2016 09:49
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Al! posted:And small business owners which i count as a negative because small business owners are some of the worst people on the planet by and large this reminds me that i found out my boss at a Small Business is apparently a sugar daddy while i was fixing something on his phone last week his wife works at the company too, and he's always been a bit of a prick to her, so this just adds another uncomfortable dimension to that relationship. i hope his sugar child or w/e is extracting as much wealth as possible from him, at least
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Aug 8, 2016 10:55
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Alucard Nacirema posted:If Hillary is very left wing then why did she oppose gay marriage for most of her political career until literally just recently? Why did she vote for Bush's Iraq War? and why did she make speeches promoting Her husbands mass incarceration bill referring to african American males as "super predators who need to be brought to heel"? She did not spend her career opposing gay marriage. The fact that she and Bill tried to get gays the ability to openly serve in the military should sort of clue you in on that front. However while trying to do that, congress went and passed DOMA with a veto proof majority. So Hillary's response was to take the position that got gay people as many rights as she though they could get, civil unions. Remembering that gay marriage was a pipe dream until just a very few years ago was so radioactive banning it helped W get reelected. It's fair to think she didn't publicly go far enough left on gay marriage, but it's important to remember the context. The Iraq War authorization when passed was pitched by the Bush administration as the stick needed to ensure Saddam complied with the UN inspections. It was supposed to help negotiations. Of course the whole thing was built on a stack of lies and was just so W and Halliburton could go kick some rear end and make some money. It's fair to disagree with her vote, but it's important to remember the context. In the 90s the nation was at the top of a trend line of ever increasing crime rates that stretched back decades. Everyone agreed that something needed to be done, and virtually everyone thought violent criminals getting out was a huge issue. She did not say that blacks are "super predators who need to be brought to heel". She was using a term coined by criminologists that was part of the crime panic of the 90s. The myth of the super predator was almost as widespread in the 90s as the myth of the Satanic child molesters in the 80s. However the super predator myth was placed in the context of record violence and crime and was pushed by researchers themselves who were compiling the data. The term was racially tinged, however the underlying threat was presented as real by the data. Looking at the trend lines and the then available data had virtually everyone in agreement that crime was out of control and that the nation was headed towards chaos unless something was done. The crime bill that was passed by Clinton had the support of all sides and was done with the support of black leaders. It is fair to disagree with the tough on crime legislation and efforts of the 90s, especially the Crime Bill, but it's not fair to throw the super predators quote at her like it's a gotcha quote that she was directing at black people. I disagree with Hillary on a number of issues, but that is because I think her strategy is wrong or that she is incorrect about the details of an issue, not because she's actually a conservative pulling one over on the Democrats. She's a left wing person who fucks up from time to time. Some of those gently caress ups are huge, but they are done from a leftward angle.
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Aug 8, 2016 11:56
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Alucard Nacirema posted:If Hillary is very left wing then why did she oppose gay marriage for most of her political career until literally just recently? A year in the gay rights movement is like a decade's worth of progress in any other movement.
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Aug 8, 2016 14:22
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Tatum Girlparts posted:Such as? Other than vague promises that she secretly is planning to invade Syria I've not seen many good explanations of the actual plans she has that are bad https://twitter.com/Tara_Mckelvey/status/762608697784795136
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Aug 8, 2016 17:19
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Kissinger kept Nixon from nuking Vietnam, so people worried about her being a hawk should actually support this.
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Aug 8, 2016 17:25
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^^^Aw I was hoping to get a couple good handwringy posts before making a joke about her getting his endorsement to troll Trump after his hilarious 'can't we just nuke people' questions got leaked. and exactly what of Kissinger's ideals do you think she'll use to guide her
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Aug 8, 2016 17:25
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trollery umadton
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Aug 8, 2016 17:26
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I mean the same people are ISO types so I don't exactly take their concerns seriously
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Aug 8, 2016 17:28
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gently caress it, I'd like to  my account for one Crooked Hillary Rotten Rodham Clinton for President of these United States of America in the year of our satan 2016, thank you, MAGA.(USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)
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Aug 8, 2016 21:18
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Make Abuela Great Again
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Aug 8, 2016 21:36
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Slate Action posted:Make Abuela Great Again Are you implying that she was less than great at any point, citizen?
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Aug 8, 2016 21:39
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Captain_Maclaine posted:Are you implying that she was less than great at any point, citizen? She was always great, but she was once less Abuela
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Aug 9, 2016 01:09
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Updating my added No third party will take a state (yes it's a safe toxx, but who the gently caress knows with Utah).
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Aug 9, 2016 05:31
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Alright, it's time. for Lyin' Crooked Hillary. (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)
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Aug 9, 2016 06:40
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Gyges posted:Hillary Clinton is a very left wing person by American standards who took from her struggles in Arkansas and Washington that the best way to get things done was through incrementalism. Remember that Hillary and Bill came into office and tried to get gays the ability to openly serve in the military and pass universal health care. The resulting backlash got them as far as Don't Ask Don't Tell and stuck them with DOMA, while comprehensive health care reform was shelved for another 16 years. It's also what lead to the Clintons going along with Welfare Reform. Meanwhile she found that she could get bits and pieces of her original health care plan through congress in a piecemeal fashion. She found that this method of getting drips and drabs of her true agenda passed worked much better than pushing it all at once. Meanwhile she stayed on the left edge of the party as the party itself moves leftward. 
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Aug 9, 2016 21:58
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I'm in She's gonna win (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)
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Aug 9, 2016 23:31
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If Trump gets Hillary assassinated to we all get banned
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Aug 10, 2016 01:44
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gently caress You And Diebold posted:If Trump gets Hillary assassinated to we all get banned Hell, we'll deserve it
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Aug 10, 2016 01:46
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gently caress You And Diebold posted:If Trump gets Hillary assassinated to we all get banned That's a good question.
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Aug 10, 2016 02:19
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My life for abuela
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Aug 10, 2016 02:22
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