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If Generations had been a season 7 2-parter and All Good Things had been the movie, I think that would've started things off on a better foot.
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Aug 8, 2016 00:21
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Wouldn't work, you can't have characters playing against type in the first feature film
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Aug 8, 2016 00:30
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My thoughts on Beyond, by the way: Easily the best Star Trek movie since at least VI (1991). It was nice after watching Suicide Squad to immediately watch something that was competently constructed and felt like it was written by 1-2 people and not five scripts incompetently mashed together. They could've called this one Star Trek: An Arsenal of Chekhov's Guns or something though.
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Aug 8, 2016 00:31
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Timby posted:It's actually based upon Ralph McQuarrie's proposed redesign from Planet of the Titans. If anything, the original design would be the Daedalus.
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Aug 8, 2016 00:35
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Gaz-L posted:If Generations had been a season 7 2-parter and All Good Things had been the movie, I think that would've started things off on a better foot. All Good Things... as a movie would have confused the poo poo out of general audiences.
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Aug 8, 2016 00:50
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OneThousandMonkeys posted:Generations just really underwhelming, and First Contact, in the words of RLM, is "the 3,967th worst movie ever made." As in, it's serviceable as a dumb action movie but the script is hilariously terrible. It's more or less a guilty pleasure, whereas the rest are just guilty. See some of this is legitimate criticism. But so much of it is just pedantic nitpicking.
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Aug 8, 2016 01:02
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One thing I don't understand is why they have like 100 Mirandas and 100 Excelsiors in that battle but there's maybe one Akira, one Steamrunner, and one Sabre class in all of those shots combined. Considering I think that's mostly, if not all, CGI I'm surprised it's so heavy on those two classes.
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Aug 8, 2016 01:09
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Timby posted:All Good Things... as a movie would have confused the poo poo out of general audiences. That's why I don't understand people suggesting that Yesterday's Enterprise is a good episode to introduce someone to TNG. It completely falls flat if you haven't seen at least half a dozen other TNG episodes.
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Aug 8, 2016 01:09
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Timby posted:It has very, very few redeeming qualities. The cinematography is decent (probably the best of the TNG films after Generations, really), Digital Domain really did a phenomenal job with the visual effects ... and ... uh, yeah, I got nothin'. loving Spiner. FlamingLiberal posted:One thing I don't understand is why they have like 100 Mirandas and 100 Excelsiors in that battle but there's maybe one Akira, one Steamrunner, and one Sabre class in all of those shots combined. Considering I think that's mostly, if not all, CGI I'm surprised it's so heavy on those two classes.
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Aug 8, 2016 01:15
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FlamingLiberal posted:One thing I don't understand is why they have like 100 Mirandas and 100 Excelsiors in that battle but there's maybe one Akira, one Steamrunner, and one Sabre class in all of those shots combined. Considering I think that's mostly, if not all, CGI I'm surprised it's so heavy on those two classes. The models they got from First Contact weren't really usable and they had to rebuild them in a rush, so they may not have been up to scratch for heavy close-to-camera work. They had Excelsior, Miranda and Galaxy ready, since they knew they weren't getting those from the start.
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Aug 8, 2016 01:15
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FlamingLiberal posted:One thing I don't understand is why they have like 100 Mirandas and 100 Excelsiors in that battle but there's maybe one Akira, one Steamrunner, and one Sabre class in all of those shots combined. Considering I think that's mostly, if not all, CGI I'm surprised it's so heavy on those two classes. I figure they got Miranda and Excelsior models looking good, and they were relatively consistent. Perhaps they had a huge surplus of the both of 'em.
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Aug 8, 2016 01:18
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Nessus posted:I don't think Steamrunners existed prior to STO, though they might've been based on Background Ship #7 or something. A Steamrunner-class is very briefly glimpsed in First Contact, and we see them in a handful of DS9 episodes beginning with A Call to Arms.
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Aug 8, 2016 01:23
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Steamrunners, Norways, Akiras, and Sabers were the four new classes introduced in First Contact. They lost the Norway model entirely, but the other three models were reconstructed and used in DS9 battles.
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Aug 8, 2016 01:24
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At least Generations and First Contact had amazing scores, the Generations overture and saucer crash sequence and the heavy industrial Borg theme especially stand out as great tracks that I replay to this day. Nemesis is a total blank and in Insurrection, uh, Data and Picard sang Gilbert and Sullivan? 
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Aug 8, 2016 01:31
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I did have to think, watching Beyond, that when the saucer crashed, Generations did it cooler. Beyond was good... but Generations did that cooler.
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Aug 8, 2016 01:34
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Timby posted:It has very, very few redeeming qualities. The cinematography is decent (probably the best of the TNG films after Generations, really), Digital Domain really did a phenomenal job with the visual effects ... and ... uh, yeah, I got nothin'. loving Spiner. I still say that Nemesis's phaser/torpedo FX looked and sounded completely anaemic, even compared to the TV shows. Space battles have to have more going on than "and now we can render even more laser beams!"
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Aug 8, 2016 02:25
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Timby posted:All Good Things... as a movie would have confused the poo poo out of general audiences. No more so than Wrath Of Khan. Unless you think I mean literally using the script for the episode as we actually have it.
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Aug 8, 2016 02:26
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MikeJF posted:I did have to think, watching Beyond, that when the saucer crashed, Generations did it cooler. Beyond was good... but Generations did that cooler.
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Aug 8, 2016 02:41
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I think that Generations managed a bigger sense of scale on the saucer, too. Also, it just kept going. The fact the JJsaucer ended up tilted kind of made it feel smaller and lighter, I think. MikeJF fucked around with this message at 02:58 on Aug 8, 2016 |
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Aug 8, 2016 02:53
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MikeJF posted:You sure that wasn't way of the warrior? I dunno, maybe?
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Aug 8, 2016 03:04
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MikeJF posted:I think that Generations managed a bigger sense of scale on the saucer, too. Also, it just kept going. I dunno, I did like how it didn't immediately explode the first time it hit the mountains and just kept going. I really love the shot of Kirk watching from the pod as the saucer careens down to the surface. I think part of the issue is because that Ent-D crash was a physical effect. CGI almost never has the same "heft" of a physical model. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yOw_xLJuVY I know you can do more with a CGI model, but nothing will ever match the real thing. Big Mean Jerk fucked around with this message at 03:11 on Aug 8, 2016 |
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Aug 8, 2016 03:07
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Jjkirk weaponized the gently caress out of that but of debris though. That's way cooler.
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Aug 8, 2016 03:12
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The many other faults of Generations are almost redeemed for me by the sheer awesomeness of the saucer crash scene. Perhaps nowhere else in all of Trek moviedom did I really get that same feel of human-made objects of unimaginable size and strength as I did from seeing that drat thing just keep plowing through the forest for what felt like minutes on end. E: spoiler I guess for ancillary-ness
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Aug 8, 2016 03:14
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Baloogan posted:make a B5 thread! I don't know, do I have to do the informative effort post thing in TVIV, because I'm not really up for that.
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Aug 8, 2016 03:47
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um, get someone with archives to like find the old b5 thread and copy paste i guess imo the post should be like "here is why u should care and watch this old rear end tv show" but im pretty sure all the goons these days are expecting HBO porno to get interested in a new series
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Aug 8, 2016 03:50
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Early 90s TV just isn't as good as modern TV admit it.
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Aug 8, 2016 04:27
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Sash! posted:First Contact isn't as good as it should be because it doesn't make sense to me. There is exactly one great Borg story and that's the first one. Even though I started watching in the summer between seasons 3 and 4, I was lucky enough to have only seen the last few frames of Best of Both Worlds Part 1 before Q Who. (The rerun schedule was really weird in my area.) The first time you see them, the Borg are so.... alien. Just vast and powerful and other- life was a totally different experience for them. And that's what made them so scary. Every story after that diminished them more and more. They should have stopped after I, Borg, which, while certainly not perfect, told the inverse of Picard's experience in BoBW and bookended it nicely. Everything after that is just generic villainy. By First Contact, they're just recycling old Dalek time travel shenanigans. And not even the good ones. What a waste. (I gave up on Voyager in the second season, and I don't want to hear about your Sevens or Nines or any of that poo poo.  )
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Aug 8, 2016 04:35
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Big Mean Jerk posted:I dunno, I did like how it didn't immediately explode the first time it hit the mountains and just kept going. I really love the shot of Kirk watching from the pod as the saucer careens down to the surface. I think part of the issue is because that Ent-D crash was a physical effect. CGI almost never has the same "heft" of a physical model. That was honestly the best shot of the entire movie.
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Aug 8, 2016 04:45
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DS9 Series Finale time.
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Aug 8, 2016 05:08
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Duckbag posted:I think a big part of what makes it so bad is we get to see the characters we love act in strange, inconsistent, and horrible ways for no real reason. Picard runs off to become a space pirate, lets an entire planet of people die because ~prime directive~, and ruins Ensign Ro's life during one of the stiffest and worse acted/directed hours of the entire franchise. All the characters meet long lost family members or have bits of character backstory finally revealed in a way that I think was supposed to be poignant but instead was terrible because it exposed how shallow the characters really were and also gave us Rape Ghost and the Lwuxana Troi repressed memory episode. Worf is dating Troi for some reason, apparently has a human brother, and is such a bad father that his son figures out time travel. Troi takes a test and somehow becomes a senior bridge officer, despite being, you know, Troi. We learn that traveling at high warp is causing space climate change, that the federation built a cloaking device that can pass through solid rock (but won't build normal ones), and that Crusher is such a bad doctor she can accidentally make the whole crew "de-evolve" while treating the flu. Picard has a fake son, Data has a fake mom, and the Enterprise gets pregnant.
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Aug 8, 2016 05:11
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Arglebargle III posted:Early 90s TV just isn't as good as modern TV admit it. Babylon 5 was two seasons of absolutely gripping television crammed into a five-season run.
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Aug 8, 2016 05:32
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Four, surely.
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Aug 8, 2016 05:34
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Arglebargle III posted:Early 90s TV just isn't as good as modern TV admit it. no Like, all the things that make b5 kind of lovely were lovely in the 90s too. The acting was pretty bad, the writing was awful, the CG stuff didn't look half as good as the practical effects that TNG was doing, etc. It's still really good and better than a ton of modern sci-fi because the character development and overarching plot is so coherent.
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Aug 8, 2016 05:45
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Arglebargle III posted:Early 90s TV just isn't as good as modern TV admit it. The really great things about B5 transcend the foibles of the era in which it was made. Not only that, I maintain you couldn't make a show like B5 today. Sure, you could make a show with good, well-written characters and even a coherent overarching plot. There may even be some shows like that, although the more or less single author's complete pre-planned five-year format may still be unique. No, what I'm talking about is the spirit of the show. It took its time setting up all the pieces, which would get it slaughtered in today's market. And it intelligently and respectfully meandered around philosophy and religion without having an axe to grind. It's like the wonder and heart of the ten best TOS episodes, a NASA library, The Lord of the Rings, and a classic Russian novel got mixed up together and made into a stage play that was filmed with a visual style inspired by the TOS movies.
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Aug 8, 2016 06:26
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Is Babylon 5 the one that had Penn and Teller in some episode, or was that some other fanatic franchise?
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Aug 8, 2016 06:33
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Well, Picard and the crew made the right decision and allowed a human boy who was captured and raised by aliens to return to the only father he ever knew. Immediately after the credits: Picard has to explain to an admiral why she'll never get to see her long-lost grandson ever again.
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Aug 8, 2016 06:42
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Nessus posted:Is Babylon 5 the one that had Penn and Teller in some episode, or was that some other fanatic franchise? You're thinking of The Drew Carey Show...and also Babylon 5.
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Aug 8, 2016 07:16
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Ogmius815 posted:See some of this is legitimate criticism. But so much of it is just pedantic nitpicking. It's the second in the series that gets into how Movie Picard is the diametric opposite of TV Picard that really hits it. The rest is pretty nitpicky, but the point is that the movie is Not Good.
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Aug 8, 2016 07:26
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ZOOT zoot zoot zoot!
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Aug 8, 2016 07:28
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drat. It took my just about two months to watch all of DS9. Jake Sisko remains the worst.
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Aug 8, 2016 07:37
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