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Which non-Power of the Daleks story would you like to see an episode found from?
This poll is closed.
Marco Polo 36 20.69%
The Myth Makers 10 5.75%
The Massacre of St. Bartholomew's Eve 45 25.86%
The Savages 2 1.15%
The Smugglers 2 1.15%
The Highlanders 45 25.86%
The Macra Terror 21 12.07%
Fury from the Deep 13 7.47%
Total: 174 votes
[Edit Poll (moderators only)]

 
  • Locked thread
Doctor Spaceman
Jul 6, 2010

"Everyone's entitled to their point of view, but that's seriously a weird one."
I started watching Supergirl and was amused to notice that the government organisation responsible for handling alien threats was using Greyhound and Trap callsigns.

Lottery of Babylon posted:

I am shocked that there would be any conservative fans of a show that has recently had episodes about how abortion is evil, medication for mental illness is wrong, and immigrants are secret ISIS agents trying to overthrow us.

One of the most vocal conservative shitlords in Australian parliament is also a massive Doctor Who nerd.

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TinTower
Apr 21, 2010

You don't have to 8e a good person to 8e a hero.
https://twitter.com/altrightwho/status/717402091082420224

After The War
Apr 12, 2005

to all of my Architects
let me be traitor
The aggressive point-missing you see in conservative fans of liberal-philosophy genre works is always :psypop:. The various Star Treks get it a lot, too. I'd love to post a point-by-point refutation, but in the meantime:


Or maybe I'll just gush over Caves of Androzani's vicious portrayal of capitalism and the military (or the destructive nature of entitlement!) instead. We'll see!

happyhippy
Feb 21, 2005

Playing games, watching movies, owning goons. 'sup
Pillbug

jivjov posted:

Is that an actual serious account? I thought, based on the image alone, that it was parody/satire!

*Why only having one companion at a time is good fiscal responsibility*

Pesky Splinter
Feb 16, 2011

A worried pug.
Has it mentioned the dreaded....:supaburn: "Gay Agenda" :supaburn: like I'd imagine it to?

Oh here we go

This has got to be a parody account....Surely

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

Paul McGann's Doctor as pro-military :lol:

Gaz-L
Jan 28, 2009
The risk of really cutting satire is being mistaken for what you're mocking.

Astroman
Apr 8, 2001


happyhippy posted:

*10000 word post on how Davros is mis-understood and why the Cybermen are the most patriotic troops you could have*

DAVROS DID NOTHING WRONG!!

Also that guy Salamander was just really misunderstood and if you really look at his actual philosophy he had a lot of good points.


:v:

CobiWann
Oct 21, 2009

Have fun!
I'm a right-wing moderate, and 2016 has been REALLY loving hard...

But Doctor Who has always been non-political to me. Sure, you have the anti-Thatcher leanings of the Seventh Doctor (The Happiness Patrol) but it's never been "AHA THE AGENDA!" It's always been "story first, THEN politics (if any)."

Still, what I wouldn't give to find the person behind that account and give them such a smack.

MrL_JaKiri
Sep 23, 2003

A bracing glass of carrot juice!

CobiWann posted:

But Doctor Who has always been non-political to me. Sure, you have the anti-Thatcher leanings of the Seventh Doctor (The Happiness Patrol) but it's never been "AHA THE AGENDA!" It's always been "story first, THEN politics (if any)."

I'm not going to scream "authorial intent!!!" at you (because that's silly, to quote Leela) but there's an awful lot of politics in Doctor Who. A wodge of it, like the politics in something like a Shakespeare play, gets lost on most of the audience watching thirty, forty, fifty years on because the context has been lost.

It's a good kicking off point for analysis if nothing else.

MrL_JaKiri
Sep 23, 2003

A bracing glass of carrot juice!
Also I know there's no accounting for taste but not even this kind of idiot would pick this story for this tweet if it wasn't parody:

https://twitter.com/AltRightWho/status/739939450516606976

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

Yeah this thing has to be parody.

It HAS to be.

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010


Ignore my posts!
I'm aggressively wrong about everything!

MrL_JaKiri posted:

I'm not going to scream "authorial intent!!!" at you (because that's silly, to quote Leela) but there's an awful lot of politics in Doctor Who. A wodge of it, like the politics in something like a Shakespeare play, gets lost on most of the audience watching thirty, forty, fifty years on because the context has been lost.

It's a good kicking off point for analysis if nothing else.

poo poo, even the Daleks were basically everyone's lingering fears from World War II in physical form; Space Nazis in a nuclear-blasted hellscape.

It's great to look at what we saw when it was current and go 'how much of this is gonna look really fuckin' weird when the context is no longer recent'. One of the best DVDs I own is the first season of The Chaser's War on Everything, an Australian current-affairs comedy show that first aired maybe ten years ago now, and it's fascinating to see all of these jokes that almost don't even classify as jokes anymore because they were about such public-yet-transient subjects that they felt no need to introduce them and yet you have no idea what they are. And then every so often it gets mixed in with 'oh god that's our Prime Minister back when he was Minister for Health'.

I do wonder exactly what stories from New Who will be able to shake off overt themes and references and which ones will just look SUPER dated, though. The reality show parodies in Bad Wolf and the Olympics focus in Fear Her have clearly already hit the latter (although in fairness they're ten years old now too), but I think other than those two most New Who stories will hold up pretty well. Some might even get better; I don't think Invasion/Inversion of the Zygons will ever be anything better than a bad story with some good moments, but I could see it being a lot more palatable to future viewers who don't know the current events it was 'commenting' on.

EDIT: Oh, poo poo, The Bells of Saint John is gonna look hilariously out of touch when all the tech it hinges everything on has run its course.

Cleretic fucked around with this message at 09:59 on Aug 7, 2016

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

Cleretic posted:

EDIT: Oh, poo poo, The Bells of Saint John is gonna look hilariously out of touch when all the tech it hinges everything on has run its course.

To be fair, the show quite clearly dates the episodes itself so you know what you're seeing is a product of the time. By which I mean anybody watching is going to know that it's London in 2013 and that people at the time were using tablets, wifi, social media accounts etc. Even if it will seem quaint in 50 years, it's not going to have the issue of being an episode set in a future that bears absolutely no similarities to when that actually becomes the present.

Wheat Loaf
Feb 13, 2012

by FactsAreUseless

Jerusalem posted:

Yeah this thing has to be parody.

It HAS to be.

I'd say picking "The Horns of Nimon" is a bit of a giveaway. :v:

However - and don't take it as a bad thing - I think that Moffat is really good at producing "content made to please Tumblr". One impression I have of the revival in general is that RTD Who (especially the first season) is like a really good CBBC show, while Moffat Who is more like an okay CW show with flashes of brilliance.

Cleretic posted:

I do wonder exactly what stories from New Who will be able to shake off overt themes and references and which ones will just look SUPER dated, though. The reality show parodies in Bad Wolf and the Olympics focus in Fear Her have clearly already hit the latter (although in fairness they're ten years old now too), but I think other than those two most New Who stories will hold up pretty well.

I wonder what people in 10 years will think of the "Obama has a plan to fix everything" bit from "The End of Time"? It's very 2009.

I wonder if the next series will make any references to soon-to-be-President Trump? :v:

Jerusalem posted:

To be fair, the show quite clearly dates the episodes itself so you know what you're seeing is a product of the time. By which I mean anybody watching is going to know that it's London in 2013 and that people at the time were using tablets, wifi, social media accounts etc. Even if it will seem quaint in 50 years, it's not going to have the issue of being an episode set in a future that bears absolutely no similarities to when that actually becomes the present.

As far as technology goes, it's always mobile phones that stick out to me. You've got Rose's "superphone" in season one, which the Doctor zaps with his sonic screwdriver so she can make cross-time calls, and I'm pretty sure it was a Nokia 3310 or something like that. It's like that episode of Buffy where the villain is a demon that lives in this mysterious new dimension which nobody really understands called "the Internet".

Wheat Loaf fucked around with this message at 12:00 on Aug 7, 2016

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

Wheat Loaf posted:

I wonder what people in 10 years will think of the "Obama has a plan to fix everything" bit from "The End of Time"? It's very 2009.

Hell, I remember people in this thread (including myself) back in 2009 thinking it was pretty drat awful!

Fil5000
Jun 23, 2003

HOLD ON GUYS I'M POSTING ABOUT INTERNET ROBOTS
Pro military is the best one on there.

Trin Tragula
Apr 22, 2005

Wheat Loaf posted:

One impression I have of the revival in general is that RTD Who (especially the first season) is like a really good CBBC show

The first thing RTD ever did for television was for CBBC; it was called Dark Season, you can buy it on DVD, and it had some unknown 16-year-old called Kate Winslet playing one of the three leads. Buy it and marvel at how right you are.

(Then you should check out the second thing he ever did for television, which was called Century Falls, and is also on DVD, and get extremely depressed that he chose to pattern NewWho after Dark Season instead of Century Falls.)

Wheat Loaf
Feb 13, 2012

by FactsAreUseless

Trin Tragula posted:

The first thing RTD ever did for television was for CBBC; it was called Dark Season, you can buy it on DVD, and it had some unknown 16-year-old called Kate Winslet playing one of the three leads. Buy it and marvel at how right you are.

Sure, that was how RTD and Moffat both got started in television - RTD had Dark Season and Moffat had Press Gang.

As I've said many times before, my favourite was The Demon Headmaster. Five-year old me was terrified of Terrence Hardiman. :allears:

TinTower
Apr 21, 2010

You don't have to 8e a good person to 8e a hero.
I was six when the Demon Headmaster took over the BBC. I was scared as poo poo. :ohdear:

Gaz-L
Jan 28, 2009
I think I was the weird kid who read the Demon Headmaster books more than watched the TV. I was the turbo-nerd in my class, so I'd zoom through whatever the teacher assigned and usually they'd let me gently caress around in the mini-library we had between classrooms in my primary school. (We also had a real library but it was barely ever used for that purpose. I was amazed at high school when we had a library you could go to during breaks and like take books out and go home with them to read!)

Wheat Loaf
Feb 13, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
I also liked the books, but didn't read them until after I'd seen the TV series and I was probably a bit too old for them by then. When the TV series was coming out I barely read at all. It was Horrible Histories that got me reading.

Gaz-L
Jan 28, 2009
Demon Headmaster, Black Hole Primary and Horrible Histories/Science was most of primary school for me. Then when I was 12 was when I read way too much Star Wars and Star Trek licenced stuff and Animorphs.

The more recent Horrible Histories TV version was pretty good. The TV adaptation of Animorphs was... not.

qntm
Jun 17, 2009
I was actually tempted to start a Dalek political party a while back.

  • Reduced class sizes
  • Reduced NHS waiting lists
  • Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime (humans)
  • An end to rough sleepers in the UK's five largest cities within five years
  • Immigration likely to fall to 0 almost immediately
  • Scottish independence likely to happen almost immediately

ThaGhettoJew
Jul 4, 2003

The world is a ghetto

qntm posted:

  • Scottish independence likely to happen almost immediately

Jamie and Amy gonna rock that vote hard.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

qntm posted:

I was actually tempted to start a Dalek political party a while back.

I call Chief Whip because I'm lazy and don't want to have to do anything!

Box of Bunnies
Apr 3, 2012

by Pragmatica
I watched Children of Earth over the weekend and didn't like it as much as I'd hoped or as much as other people seem to. The general idea was interesting but there's something about the way it was put together that just didn't work for me in a way I can't really articulate, which is a shame because between my love of BARROWMAN! :argh: and girlcrush on Eve Myles I really wanted to be able to actually like some Torchwood. It not being offensively bad like the earlier stuff is a plus I guess, and it was definitely a different look at Capaldi really only knowing him for playing the Doctor otherwise.

Though tbh it really kind of killed any interest I had in Jack returning to Doctor Who (either on telly or in Big Finish). The end with killing his grandson means I can't really see him as the same lovable rogue that his Doctor Who character is again, and realising that the "Ten hooks Jack up with the dude from the one with Kylie" from End of Time is meant to be a glib followup to that is kinda off.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?



Short Synopsis: Stranded in time? Giant Scorpions and Spiders? Certain Death? No problem for the 5th Doctor! Adric on the other hand....

Long Synopsis: The Doctor and Nyssa's attempt to escape their marooning in Victorian London via Block-Transfer Calculations, but end up in a prehistoric period of Earth that never existed. The dinosaurs never were, and giant scorpions nest in a city designed as a giant computer built for the express purpose of summoning the Doctor. He must answer for his "crimes" in deserting a former companion to death, and a fate worse than death awaits Nyssa.

What's Good:
  • References as world-building. This is a highly referential episode, but it uses those references to actually build and explain the framework of the main plot. The Scorpion King's affinity for spiders and scorpions and his ability to communicate with them doesn't come from nowhere, it's based on his own peculiar evolutionary history as seen in Full Circle. It's aided by (fictional) mathematical processes and competencies seen in the likes of Logopolis and Castrovalva, with the former also introducing the concept of Block-Transfer Calculations in the first place. The Doctor's own sense of guilt coupled with his attempts to escape his stranding in the Victorian era and the intended similarities (not quite pulled off) between Adric and Thomas Brewster not only bridge the gap between the Scorpion King's attempts but also undercut his ego in demonstrating yet again (as often seen in the show) that Adric was never quite as smart as he thought he was. Basically, little pieces are taken from various stories both televised and audio and bit by bit they make up the fairly solid structure of the story rather than just pulling it all out of its rear end or just using them for their own sake.

  • The alternate past. It's kinda neat to look at a story that posits what if the dinosaurs never had a chance to evolve into the giants that ruled the primitive earth for hundreds of millions of years because they all got eaten up by giant insects instead. A society of giant scorpions forced to evolve, rattling off pieces of mathematical calculations they don't understand, barely holding their instincts in check, just smart enough to be aware that something is wrong but also knowing that the alternative is to be mindless creatures... well there is a lot of potential there for interesting stories to tell, and it's a pretty cool setting.

  • Peter Davison behind-the-scenes. As always the story features a behind the scenes section of interviews and discussions and Davison is once again a highlight. He takes particular glee in poking fun at the character of Adric and in particular Matthew Waterhouse, getting a lot of mileage out of the old stories about Waterhouse telling an accomplished old thespian how to act. There are some wonderful quips from him, such as,"I was a trifle apprehensive to hear Adric would be in this story, but then I saw they'd cast an actor!" and you get the sense he's having a hell of a lot of fun. As always in the story itself he plays the flustered older brother/inexperienced dad role well, which does undercut from the themes of guilt and repressed anger somewhat but also leads to some neat sections such as the Doctor struggling mightily to put up with the Scorpion King's attitude and actions before finally having enough and trying to give him a piece of his mind only for disaster to get in the way. The ending with the Doctor coming to a decision about a different young man with an uncanny ability to get into trouble plays nicely out of the resolution of Adric and the Doctor's emotional issues and Davison sells it well.

What's Not:

  • Was this really necessary? I don't think there was anybody actually pining for a story about Adric surviving Earthshock, and often while listening all I could think was that the story may have had noble intentions but all it really managed to accomplish was dilute what little dramatic and emotional resonance that televised story got from it's shock ending in the first place. To be sure, they do try to fuzzy things up a little by suggesting a binary state of being where the ending to Earthshock as seen still happened but also this aberration, but that just smacks of lacking the resolve to commit to the retcon they want to make. The fact that Adric dies so senselessly and the Doctor is not only unable to help him but has to refuse to use his own time traveling ability to go back and save him despite his companions pleading WAS the point, this wasn't a story that needed fixing, it accomplished exactly what it set out to do. Also given that the 5th Doctor and Nyssa are still traveling about together between Time Flight and Arc of Infinity means that only one televised story has aired between Adric's death and this "resurrection" and it hardly feels like the Doctor's guilt over this death should be so deeply buried by this point as to manifest itself subconsciously the way it does in this story. I know plenty of audio time has passed, but I think a story like this might have worked better using a later Doctor. Sure that might have lost the impact of the 5th Doctor being the one to meet Adric.... but they changed Adric's actor anyway so why not?

  • Adric. Unfortunately the character isn't any better when played by another actor. Andrew Sachs is a veteran with decades of experience (as he points out, his most famous role of Manuel from Fawlty Towers consisted of roughly 3 months of filming) but the material he's given isn't good and his portrayal just makes the character into a creepy, sulky lunatic. That IS what the script called for of course and there wasn't really much he could have done to change that, but his portrayal only heightens the irritation and distaste I got from the story. Never a huge fan of Adric to start with, removing all his good qualities in favor of a thoughtless despot obsessed with torturing the Doctor and forcing Nyssa to marry him didn't do much to endear me to him. They seemed to be relying on some form of nostalgia for the character to carry through, because his redemption when it comes neither feels earned nor particularly welcome. More than that, it serves as a device to return the TARDIS to the Doctor and Nyssa which very much feels like an artificial problem with an artificial solution, and adding in another companion expressly said to be designed as a new take on Adric's original proposed character isn't helped by reminding the viewer how annoying/aggravating Adric could be.

  • The love affair. Two supporting characters come along for the ride, and in a story that wasn't so interested in exploring the Doctor, Adric's (and Nyssa's) relationship there would have been some potential merit in watching the opposites attract/out of their element pairing deal with the bizarre setting, reveal truths about themselves and develop a romantic attraction. As it is, the whole thing feels rushed and packed in wherever they can fit it around the main story. It suffers as a result and detracts from other subplots that don't get enough time in the sun. A major moment for one character that is supposed to be a defining moment that also gives the other the impetus to make massive changes to their life doesn't have any impact and doesn't feel at all important or relevant to the rest of the story. Too much is going on for a story that is supposed to be intensely personal, it needed to be stripped down.

Final Thoughts:

The Boy That Time Forgot is a story I kinda wish time had forgotten to make. There are potentially interesting things to do and say with the storyline but just because you can tell a story doesn't always mean you should. All joking aside, Adric's character had a beginning, middle and end. That end, abrupt and shocking as it was, was still an ending that serviced character interactions and the loose continuity the show was indulging in at the time. Bringing Adric back doesn't really add to or improve on the story in any way other than allowing the character to have a moment of peaceful acceptance that is far weaker than his televised ending of,"Now I'll never know if I was right..." I was never a fan of Adric but I'd probably be as inclined to dislike a story with a character I really did like - Donna Noble got a horrific ending to her adventures with the Doctor but it was also a powerful one and I wouldn't change that. Andrew Sachs performance matches the script he was given, and that amounts to a somewhat manic, slightly senile, self-obsessed creep with an obsessive streak - hardly a character I'm inclined to want to hear more of or see get a happy ending. As I mentioned above - I just don't see WHY this story had to be made, who was pining for it, what it ultimately achieved. Or rather, I can see what it was going for, and I disagree it should have gone for that in the first place. Not a story I'm in any rush to ever listen to again, though technically it is "important" in that it bridges the gap between The Haunting of Thomas Brewster and Time Reef and establishes the Doctor's newest companion. Listen for yourself and make your own judgment of course, but this is not a story I'd recommend.

Pesky Splinter
Feb 16, 2011

A worried pug.
The Boy that Time Forgot was very much a "Well...those things happened...I guess?" for me. I remember being indifferent to most of the following stories too - which is not to say they don't have their good/bad moments.

After The War
Apr 12, 2005

to all of my Architects
let me be traitor
Why the hell am I listening to Graceless? Except for Destroyer of Delights (which, aside from a great take on the Black and White guardians, would have worked just fine on its own), I hated the Key2Time stuff. Part one, The Sphere, was just pointless. I think I'll just -

David Warner posted:

You're under arrest.

I can't wait for part two! :neckbeard:

Jerusalem posted:

I just don't see WHY this story had to be made, who was pining for it, what it ultimately achieved. Or rather, I can see what it was going for, and I disagree it should have gone for that in the first place.

Save this. You'll need it.

Edward Mass
Sep 14, 2011

𝅘𝅥𝅮 I wanna go home with the armadillo
Good country music from Amarillo and Abilene
Friendliest people and the prettiest women you've ever seen
𝅘𝅥𝅮

After The War posted:

Why the hell am I listening to Graceless?

Did you not read my OP?

jivjov
Sep 13, 2007

But how does it taste? Yummy!
Dinosaur Gum

CaptainYesterday posted:

Did you not read my OP?

I resent you grouping Charlie under the "who gives a poo poo" category!

Edward Mass
Sep 14, 2011

𝅘𝅥𝅮 I wanna go home with the armadillo
Good country music from Amarillo and Abilene
Friendliest people and the prettiest women you've ever seen
𝅘𝅥𝅮

jivjov posted:

I resent you grouping Charlie under the "who gives a poo poo" category!

Still don't give a poo poo about her series :colbert:

Pesky Splinter
Feb 16, 2011

A worried pug.
Vienna is still wins the a gold star for "the who could honestly give a flying gently caress" spin-off award.

Chairman Mao
Apr 24, 2004

The Chinese Communist Party is the core of leadership of the whole Chinese people. Without this core, the cause of socialism cannot be victorious.
Charleys boxset was the most disappointing thing Big Finish has ever done. loving terrible.

DoctorWhat
Nov 18, 2011

A little privacy, please?

Chairman Mao posted:

Charleys boxset was the most disappointing thing Big Finish has ever done. loving terrible.

nope, that'd be The Widow's Assassin

jivjov
Sep 13, 2007

But how does it taste? Yummy!
Dinosaur Gum

Chairman Mao posted:

Charleys boxset was the most disappointing thing Big Finish has ever done. loving terrible.

This makes me sad...that's coming up soon in my listen-list.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

After The War posted:

I can't wait for part two! :neckbeard:

David Warner is a global treasure :allears:

I love that he's in one of the War Doctor boxsets because he showed up to the studios just to say hello to John Hurt and ended up being cast as a major villain :laugh:

Jerusalem fucked around with this message at 23:40 on Aug 8, 2016

Chairman Mao
Apr 24, 2004

The Chinese Communist Party is the core of leadership of the whole Chinese people. Without this core, the cause of socialism cannot be victorious.

DoctorWhat posted:

nope, that'd be The Widow's Assassin

Really, why? Charley's boxset was hyped for literally years before pen was even out to paper, her whole arc with Colin Baker was clearly setting her up for her own series, and it was the first and last time in a while that we'd heard her in an audio. Other than it being a follow up to piscon paradox, what did the widows assassin have going for it?

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The_Doctor
Mar 29, 2007

"The entire history of this incarnation is one of temporal orbits, retcons, paradoxes, parallel time lines, reiterations, and divergences. How anyone can make head or tail of all this chaos, I don't know."

Jerusalem posted:

David Warner is a global treasure :allears:

I love that he's in one of the War Doctor boxsets because he showed up to the studios just to say hello to John Hurt and ended up being cast as a major villain :laugh:

Because he's David goddamn Warner. It's weird when he isn't playing a villain.

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