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MrMojok posted:OK tankophiles, I know of no better place to ask this. I haven't seen Fury yet, outside of clips, but I've been told everyone in it is meant to be hitlerjugend-tier SS who're big on fanaticism and low on training. It'd explain the tiger fight (except for the whole "we have to shoot it from behind!" thing).
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# ? Aug 9, 2016 15:45 |
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# ? May 13, 2024 03:46 |
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Rodrigo Diaz posted:A lot of Fury was teens trying to write the most hosed up and badass poo poo you can think of. Like that one lieutenant shooting himself while on fire. That and some other stuff came off as so ridiculous as to be laughable. That's like the least rad thing you can do while in a tank and on fire: http://tankarchives.blogspot.ca/2016/05/train-rammer.html But yeah, RE: immobilized tank against infantry: once they're swarming all over your tank, you're screwed. The proper way to do it is dismount crewmen with a tank machinegun and SMG and have them shoot from nearby, spotting for the tank if necessary.
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# ? Aug 9, 2016 15:55 |
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spectralent posted:I haven't seen Fury yet, outside of clips, but I've been told everyone in it is meant to be hitlerjugend-tier SS who're big on fanaticism and low on training. It'd explain the tiger fight (except for the whole "we have to shoot it from behind!" thing). It's more like the SS troops in Fury aren't supposed to represent real people. Neither is the Tiger supposed to represent a real tank. Also, even if you need to sperg about Fury, the tank is supposed to be a Tiger II.
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# ? Aug 9, 2016 15:56 |
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Fury isn't a bad movie so long as you're not constantly rivet counting while watching it. Also the whole ending originally supposedly having Hitler Youth assault the tank would have made more (but not total) sense. Also I had just finished reading Ian Kershaw's The End right before I saw it, and they did a pretty good job showing how fanatical the Nazi's were at the very end. Anyways, I'm reading Ian Toll's Six Frigates, it's not bad but it's not great either. Are his other books any better (Pacific Crucible)?
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# ? Aug 9, 2016 16:09 |
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Slim Jim Pickens posted:It's more like the SS troops in Fury aren't supposed to represent real people. Neither is the Tiger supposed to represent a real tank. Bovington has a working Tiger 2 right? I wonder why they weren't able to use it for the movie.
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# ? Aug 9, 2016 16:14 |
bewbies posted:I think Fury is the first movie I've seen that actually got the way bullets sound and tracers look right. I always appreciated that. In Call of Duty: World at War, you honestly think that Roebuck and Sullivan are these old guys in their 40s, maybe late 30s. Nope, the dialogue says they're supposed to be in their 20s. Even the old salt with a thick mustache and raspy voice.
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# ? Aug 9, 2016 16:15 |
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bewbies posted:I think Fury is the first movie I've seen that actually got the way bullets sound and tracers look right. I always appreciated that. Wasn't that actually a plot point in Thin Red Line, where one of the officers who was in the pre-war army where you could be a LT at 40, and was now taking orders from someone who was in his early 30ies?
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# ? Aug 9, 2016 16:19 |
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Saint Celestine posted:Bovington has a working Tiger 2 right? I wonder why they weren't able to use it for the movie. No, they actually took the working engine from their Tiger II to get 131 working.
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# ? Aug 9, 2016 16:21 |
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bewbies posted:Why is it that war movies always feature actors that are way, way, way too drat old to be in the army? Hey, I'm 40 year old lieutenant clint eastwood and I'm taking orders from 42 year old tom hanks who must be the oldest infantry captain in the ETO, except then he meets 51 year old airborne captain ted danson and everybody is surprised until 46 year old lieutenant brad pitt walks up only to be outdone by 51 year old staff sergeant brad pitt If you're dealing with Serious and Weighty Issues like War and Death and The Meaning of It All, a risk-averse producer is going to want to cast proven veterans in the lead roles, even if his lead roles are supposed to be clueless teenage subalterns. It's very rare that things all fall into place like, say, Daniel Radcliffe is a box office star and shows he's a good enough actor to play Kipling's son in My Boy Jack while he's the right age to do it.
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# ? Aug 9, 2016 16:23 |
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Trin Tragula posted:Daniel Radcliffe is a box office star and shows he's a good enough actor to play Kipling's son in My Boy Jack while he's the right age to do it. My son was killed while laughing at some jest. I would I knew What it was, and it might serve me in a time when jests are few.
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# ? Aug 9, 2016 16:25 |
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Trin Tragula posted:Guys I don't know if you noticed this but July 1916 was a loving terrible month for a shitload of people Remind me to always turn down the position of "horse holder."
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# ? Aug 9, 2016 16:27 |
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lenoon posted:My son was killed while laughing at some jest. I'll have to ask my grandmother about it again, but I remember her telling me about a relative of hers, might have been a great-uncle or an uncle (or maybe I'm misremembering it and it was not a relative but a neighbor or something), who was shot by a German sniper while celebrating reunion with the brother he hadn't seen since the Nazi invasion. Death ain't picky about when it strikes.
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# ? Aug 9, 2016 16:31 |
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Endman posted:It's Warhammer 40k in World War Two, and if you take it as such, it isn't too bad. I don't think it was campy enough for that, and wanted to be taken too seriously about the horrors of war.
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# ? Aug 9, 2016 16:33 |
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A White Guy posted:. Hell, the conversion of AA guns into ersatz AT guns was because the Germans had to come up with some answer to a massive behemoth with a gun that can destroy any 1941-era German tank. AAA was used in AT roles long before Barbarossa. Going back at least to the Spanish civil war.
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# ? Aug 9, 2016 16:34 |
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Saint Celestine posted:Bovington has a working Tiger 2 right? I wonder why they weren't able to use it for the movie. They have a working Tiger 1, and that's what was used in the film, but their Tiger 2 doesn't move itself.
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# ? Aug 9, 2016 16:37 |
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Slim Jim Pickens posted:It's more like the SS troops in Fury aren't supposed to represent real people. Neither is the Tiger supposed to represent a real tank. That would explain why it couldn't be shot from the front but a 76mm sherman would go clean through KT side armour too.
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# ? Aug 9, 2016 16:58 |
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spectralent posted:That would explain why it couldn't be shot from the front but a 76mm sherman would go clean through KT side armour too.
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# ? Aug 9, 2016 17:22 |
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Slim Jim Pickens posted:In that scene, they don't actually get a clean shot on its side. That scene is about creating drama for a work of fiction, not accurately portraying the realities of ww2 tank warfare and the potential for penetrating armor with a Sherman's gun. The "Gita shoot it in the rear end" thing has been a Hollywood trope for the better part of half a century. gently caress it was a major plot point in Kelly's loving Heroes.
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# ? Aug 9, 2016 17:41 |
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Which tank is lovely enough that a large man with a titanium spear with say a tungsten or depleted uranium point could defeat it
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# ? Aug 9, 2016 17:45 |
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Grand Fromage posted:Which tank is lovely enough that a large man with a titanium spear with say a tungsten or depleted uranium point could defeat it My candidate, assuming tankettes count.
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# ? Aug 9, 2016 17:50 |
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Grand Fromage posted:Which tank is lovely enough that a large man with a titanium spear with say a tungsten or depleted uranium point could defeat it Well, if you take advantage of uranium being pyrophoric you might be able to set a Sheridan on fire. Maybe, I'm probably wrong.
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# ? Aug 9, 2016 17:50 |
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I don't think I've ever seen an Imperial Japanese tank that didn't look super dumb and like it'd explode if you threw a rock at it.
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# ? Aug 9, 2016 17:53 |
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I've also never really understood why people think they want realistic war movies. If a war movie was realistic it would be really really really really boring for the first two and half hours and then the last 15 minutes would be really loud and confusing
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# ? Aug 9, 2016 17:55 |
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bewbies posted:I've also never really understood why people think they want realistic war movies. If a war movie was realistic it would be really really really really boring for the first two and half hours and then the last 15 minutes would be really loud and confusing Honestly I want one so that I can point my mind's eye to it when thinking about combat. A curated collection of liveleak videos would probably go a long way but some shots you just can't get in a real fight.
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# ? Aug 9, 2016 18:01 |
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bewbies posted:I've also never really understood why people think they want realistic war movies. If a war movie was realistic it would be really really really really boring for the first two and half hours and then the last 15 minutes would be really loud and confusing Yeah. Even if it's cool to occasionally have a particular system or whatever work in a realistic way, you're going to want it to be otherwise pretty bonkers compared to real life. Or just have it as a thriller that happens to have a single realistic battle scene or gun fight.
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# ? Aug 9, 2016 18:03 |
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Cyrano4747 posted:That scene is about creating drama for a work of fiction, not accurately portraying the realities of ww2 tank warfare and the potential for penetrating armor with a Sherman's gun. The "Gita shoot it in the rear end" thing has been a Hollywood trope for the better part of half a century. gently caress it was a major plot point in Kelly's loving Heroes. Kelly's Heroes is one of the realest war movies ever made. xthetenth posted:Honestly I want one so that I can point my mind's eye to it when thinking about combat. A curated collection of liveleak videos would probably go a long way but some shots you just can't get in a real fight. I think there's a real argument for a screwball comedy about rear echelon insanity, but i don't think that's Hollywood fare.
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# ? Aug 9, 2016 18:06 |
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War movies seem to achieve good levels of accuracy in segments. Like the tense waiting followed by insane carnage of the beginning of saving private Ryan or the hour and a half of cock jokes in Hitler my part in his downfall, or when the barbed wire comes alive in deathwatch.
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# ? Aug 9, 2016 18:06 |
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xthetenth posted:Honestly I want one so that I can point my mind's eye to it when thinking about combat. A curated collection of liveleak videos would probably go a long way but some shots you just can't get in a real fight.
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# ? Aug 9, 2016 18:06 |
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lenoon posted:War movies seem to achieve good levels of accuracy in segments. Like the tense waiting followed by insane carnage of the beginning of saving private Ryan or the hour and a half of cock jokes in Hitler my part in his downfall, or when the barbed wire comes alive in deathwatch. War movies can accurately capture feelings. But when you try to get all sperglord accurate, you lose sight of the actual goal.
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# ? Aug 9, 2016 18:09 |
HEY GAL posted:that dude owned Great dresser, could lead hundreds of horsemen in some fantastic charges. Don't give him a Kingdom though or leave him in charge of a shattered army. Neither ended well. bewbies posted:I've also never really understood why people think they want realistic war movies. If a war movie was realistic it would be really really really really boring for the first two and half hours and then the last 15 minutes would be really loud and confusing Realistic Napoleonic Wars movie, main character is awkwardly to the right in the third line of a four man column. You spent most of it looking at the back of or craning to see over the shako of the guy in front barely seeing the enemy through the smoke before being shot to death. Epilogue, some reinactor does a silly dance in your uniform. Fin. SeanBeansShako fucked around with this message at 18:16 on Aug 9, 2016 |
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# ? Aug 9, 2016 18:11 |
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bewbies posted:I've also never really understood why people think they want realistic war movies. If a war movie was realistic it would be really really really really boring for the first two and half hours and then the last 15 minutes would be really loud and confusing I just hate watching stuff and being ripped out the moment when I think "wait that poo poo doesn't make any sense". Comedy response: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePv7ZdWVjY4
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# ? Aug 9, 2016 18:13 |
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Slim Jim Pickens posted:I think there's a real argument for a screwball comedy about rear echelon insanity, but i don't think that's Hollywood fare. This is like 90% of Generation Kill
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# ? Aug 9, 2016 18:14 |
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HEY GAL posted:take your glasses off, you'll see exactly what Gustavus Adolphus saw in combat Sorry, got my eyes fixed. Actually really good vision now.
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# ? Aug 9, 2016 18:16 |
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Grand Fromage posted:I don't think I've ever seen an Imperial Japanese tank that didn't look super dumb and like it'd explode if you threw a rock at it. Now I'm wondering exactly how thick knightly plate got. Did people ever go into battle wearing 6mm thickness or more of metal? EDIT: Checked Quora and the answer seems to be no.
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# ? Aug 9, 2016 18:20 |
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House Louse posted:I remember reading that the trench latrines made very good targets because they attracted flies. Whenever someone went in the flies would fly away briefly, so if you had a sniper watching it he knew there was someone to shoot at. Apparently some snipers killed as many as ten men a day just watching the latrines, although you'd reason that they could just start building latrines out of line of sight. Is this right or just a story? lenoon posted:My son was killed while laughing at some jest. I might have posted this in the last thread, but this epitaph always gets me. I was of delicate mind. I stepped aside for my needs, Disdaining the common office. I was seen from afar and killed. . . . How is this matter for mirth? Let each man be judged by his deeds. I have paid my price to live with myself on the terms that I willed.
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# ? Aug 9, 2016 18:33 |
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Here's mine.
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# ? Aug 9, 2016 18:38 |
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Grand Fromage posted:Which tank is lovely enough that a large man with a titanium spear with say a tungsten or depleted uranium point could defeat it I seem to remember early WW1 tanks were not actually bulletproof and could be stopped by machinegun fire. xthetenth posted:Honestly I want one so that I can point my mind's eye to it when thinking about combat. A curated collection of liveleak videos would probably go a long way but some shots you just can't get in a real fight. Watch pubbies play ARMA3 and you might get a reasonable idea, apparently. I still can't get over that ISIS video where the guys start slowly rolling sideways away from the outcropping with machineguns on it. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 18:42 on Aug 9, 2016 |
# ? Aug 9, 2016 18:39 |
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The only media I've seen that servicemen seem to agree on being realistic are Generation Kill and Pentagon Wars, and even Generation Kill has some debate about it. I had to watch Hurt Locker with a guy who was in US Marines EOD for eight years and I loving got an earful about it.
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# ? Aug 9, 2016 18:40 |
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Ensign Expendable posted:But yeah, RE: immobilized tank against infantry: once they're swarming all over your tank, you're screwed. The proper way to do it is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0fqTVyj8iQ In German front you throw satchel charge at tank. In Finnish front - tank throw satchel charge at you!
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# ? Aug 9, 2016 18:55 |
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# ? May 13, 2024 03:46 |
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Kajaka is worth watching, if the thread hasn't already.lenoon posted:Maybe. It was the No Conscription Fellowship line that a dishonourable discharge is a mark of honour, and they drove that pretty hard in their newspapers and periodicals. I guess without a group or a solid backup telling you that what you did was honourable, you'll look for that from the Army itself. bewbies posted:Why is it that war movies always feature actors that are way, way, way too drat old to be in the army? Hey, I'm 40 year old lieutenant clint eastwood and I'm taking orders from 42 year old tom hanks who must be the oldest infantry captain in the ETO, except then he meets 51 year old airborne captain ted danson and everybody is surprised until 46 year old lieutenant brad pitt walks up only to be outdone by 51 year old staff sergeant brad pitt
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# ? Aug 9, 2016 19:13 |