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Gaz-L posted:The best moment in this one is when the Prisoner is on the dream machine screen storming through the lab doors and Number 2 ACTUALLY TURNS AROUND as if he's actually coming in. Tiggum posted:That could go either way, I think. Tiggum posted:I'm pretty sure that was just #6 loving with him.
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Aug 10, 2016 15:14
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Tiggum posted:Yeah, that's an interesting change. No #2 has ever seemed to be particularly worried about the consequences of failure before. I'm interested to see if this is a trend or something unique to this #2, like maybe he's failed too often or done something outside of the village to upset his employers. Wasn't there a scene with a previous Number 2 being sent off by his replacement, with the replacement remarking that his plan was good, and it's not his fault it failed? I think this #2 is just a fuckup and this was his last shot to prove himself.
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Aug 12, 2016 21:33
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I hadn't seen this before: the first rejected opening theme, with a slightly different title sequence. When I first watched it I thought "This sounds like The High Chaperall or something", and I wasn't far off! And here's the second attempt, which sounds like some overenergetic 1960s current affairs show.
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Aug 14, 2016 23:33
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Well credit where it's due, even the pastiche Big Finish uses is better than those two...
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Aug 15, 2016 02:10
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Payndz posted:I hadn't seen this before: the first rejected opening theme, with a slightly different title sequence. When I first watched it I thought "This sounds like The High Chaperall or something", and I wasn't far off! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opDYDumOIEk
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Aug 15, 2016 11:11
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Many Happy Returns Number 6 wakes up to find the Village totally deserted. This is one of my favorite episodes as a stand alone episode but for the "world" of the Prisoner I think opens too many plotholes, mainly what was the reason Number 2 did this to him, what were they to gain? My only assumption is to show him how fruitless escape it, even if afforded every opportunity to get away they will still bring him back. Also, does this mean that all of the Villagers are in on this - how do they just disappear an entire population unless that population is in on it? There is no talking for 22 minutes (aside from some German(?) ) - they could have had Number 6 shouting "Hello?" while wandering around The Village, but they didn't and I think it is just amazing television. I love just how unsettling his escape is - empty village, lost a sea, German(?) pirates, Gypsies to keep you unstable as to where he possibly landed, distrust of even rural police - 6 knows there is no reason this should have gone so easily. Georgina Cookson's performance as Mrs. Butterworth is so good. The actor who plays Thorpe later appears as Number Two in Hammer Into Anvil but we can discuss as to if we think he is the same "character" when we discuss Hammer Into Anvil. Thorpe, in this episode, does seem to be playing as if he knows something. The boat the gun runners use is the same one used for SS Polotska scenes in Checkmate (a boat we find is owned by The Village). Was this intentional or just happened to be the boat the crew had at the time?
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Aug 15, 2016 16:19
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I always saw this as " Even if you do escape, we will find you, we know where you are, we will bring you back." I've heard that if they had more seasons, this would have been the season 1 finale, and season 2 transitions to more The Prisoner subverting the system. His escape makes me sad, as if civilization collapses I will never be able to survive. I still wonder why he needed to shave, that's just not necessary. The first half of the ep having minimal dialogue is great. Hell, The Prisoner only has like 3 lines in the first 28 minutes of the episode. I do like the overhead angle of his old room set, hiding the more village side. I do like the fact that The Prisoner's bosses are distrusting. Also, Thorpe calling the Village a "Holiday Resort". At this time, the show had not yet revealed that Portmeirion was being used for The Village. Also, The cat from Dance of the Dead makes her triumphant return.
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Aug 15, 2016 17:21
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I haven't watched The Prisoner in 10+ years, but Many Happy Returns was a favourite of mine. I like to think they just decided to let him escape for his birthday, knowing fine well they could take him back whenever they wanted. They probably rounded up the other villagers during the night and hid them underground. Then did the same on the way back. Since they're all brainwashed/fear for their lives they just did as they were told. I liked the bit where they all reappeared marching around the village fountain as they had been there the whole time. There's so many great creepy/weird moments in this series. The laughing guy, toy skeleton hand that collects the tokens, the guys in the cave hanging out with Rover, Rover, the people sitting on the floor in the hallway. Anyway, I got the impression Thorpe knew more than he was letting on, and arranged the pilot switch. I reckon it's the same guy in Hammer into Anvil. Also the guy who played No14 in The General was also the bad guy in Robocop 3. What's the name of the game they play? The one with the trampolines and pool of water? Does this exist in real life? Someone please say yes.
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Aug 15, 2016 18:52
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SynchronizedCocks posted:What's the name of the game they play? The one with the trampolines and pool of water? Does this exist in real life? Someone please say yes. Kosho. Sadly, about as real as anbo-jyutsu...unless you follow your dreams
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Aug 15, 2016 21:44
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That was real good but I do think it's a bit too open for its own good - the scheme seems to rely on a hell of a lot of things that could have gone wrong. I assume the gunrunners and even the gypsies were plants and that he was being monitored on his entire sea-journey, but even so what if once he got back to England the Prisoner had just decided gently caress it and legged it to some foreign clime, taken on a new identity and disappeared for good? I agree that the notion seems to be that they want to hammer it home to him that he can't escape - even if he gets off the island and gets back to England and sees long-time trusted friends and associates at the highest level the Village still has him in its grips. That lead to some really wonderful creepy moments and in isolation I think it's a tremendous episode, but it is just a little too reliant on everything going exactly the way they intended it to, and considering that the Prisoner is such an anarchic element that feels a bit foolish to me. My absolute favorite bit though is after his return when he goes back into his house and all the stuff he turned on at the beginning switches on as if the entire trip never happened. His buddy (Thorpe?) saying to another guy what a dear old friend the Prisoner was makes me think he was knowingly sending him back to the village and felt some guilt about it.
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Aug 16, 2016 00:46
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SynchronizedCocks posted:What's the name of the game they play? The one with the trampolines and pool of water? Does this exist in real life? Someone please say yes. I always thought that game looked like a good way to break your neck. Many Happy Returns is one of my favorite episodes. Does it make sense? Hell no. But this is The Prisoner we're talking about here. There's a lot of things in this episode that contradict other things we know, but it doesn't really make a bit of difference. Regarding Thorpe and the boat being reused; I think Thorpe is the same character just because it gives the show a bit more texture and I think the boat is a different boat just because having it be the same one doesn't add anything. Those guys were just some gun smugglers. The real question is why did they bother eating the Village canned goods? The milk bottle on the doorstep when Number Six gets back is a nice touch. Okay, it was there when he left but visually it connects with the previous scenes. I think this episode fits with the early episodes where they're just screwing with Number Six to see if he'll crack. After A, B, and C it feels like it's a step backward in the development.
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Aug 16, 2016 00:51
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Jerusalem posted:That was real good but I do think it's a bit too open for its own good - the scheme seems to rely on a hell of a lot of things that could have gone wrong. I assume the gunrunners and even the gypsies were plants and that he was being monitored on his entire sea-journey, but even so what if once he got back to England the Prisoner had just decided gently caress it and legged it to some foreign clime, taken on a new identity and disappeared for good? This is exactly the idea, that the Village really is that absurdly wide-reaching that they can afford to let him walk home. Completely secure in the notion that there is nowhere he can run, because they really are that powerful. The point is that he can't escape because there isn't any part of civilization that is outside the Village. Even if he flees to darkest Argentina and squats in a shack like a secret Nazi, he will only have escaped the Village insofar as he becomes a crazy hermit beyond the reach of human society, not on his own terms. The series opens with him being all like "gently caress this poo poo I'm going to chill on a beach", and while the series never comes right out and points out the obvious, that's exactly what he winds up doing, just not on his own terms (which is of course the sticking point for him). He does get to quit his job and go chill on a beach all day, but it doesn't make him happy. This episode is basically a microcosm of that idea: the Village undertakes to make the Prisoner "happy", but in a bizarre hosed up way that only deepens their control over him. e: definitely agree with your last paragraph though. This episode feels like it was intended to really put the kibosh on his escape attempts and force him to reevaluate his resistance. skasion fucked around with this message at 01:15 on Aug 16, 2016 |
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Aug 16, 2016 01:11
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One neat little touch I really loved is that when he takes supplies from the local store in the horrible prison island holding him against his will.... he leaves an IOU note because he's not some common thief 
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Aug 16, 2016 01:24
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Jerusalem posted:One neat little touch I really loved is that when he takes supplies from the local store in the horrible prison island holding him against his will.... he leaves an IOU note because he's not some common thief I almost see this more as a continuation of what he does when he interacts with the members of the village. He plays along, says all the correct things, but does it in such a way that it cannot be taken as anything but an insult. Whenever he say's "Be seeing you" it has a mocking tone to it. Whenever he is being civil, it is only skin deep and obviously so. He is untrustworthy of everything, rightly so, and treats everything and everyone with contempt, even his escapes. The art contest in the earlier episode, where he builds his boat. I read that directly as him thumbing his nose at the Village, basically saying "This is a boat, and I'm going to escape on it. What are you going to do about it?" I see the IOU in the same way, its "I don't buy this at all, I won't play your game the way you want it to be played." Even when the circumstances dictate that he act in the manner they want him to, he has to rebel in little ways.
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Aug 16, 2016 01:45
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I forgot to mention that I love the return to the opening in the middle of the episode. He hits those double doors and then it just stops dead.
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Aug 16, 2016 01:55
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I've never looked into this, but at the time of original airing, was there any outcry about the show not revealing why he resigned? Like, I'm sure it's not a spoiler to reveal that we never actually find out, and that's exactly as it should be, because the actual details are irrelevant, it's the fact that those reasons are personal and private to the prisoner and as such the Village has no right to know, and he will not relent on that But I can just see the furore if the show was made now, about how they better pay it off, or how bullshit it is not to tell the audience. So I'm curious as to whether or not if was a big deal at the time.
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Aug 16, 2016 02:09
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Not going into any details because of where we are in the series, but I got the impression from different sources that that the ending of this show was taken very poorly by much of the viewing public at the time.
remusclaw fucked around with this message at 02:14 on Aug 16, 2016 |
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Aug 16, 2016 02:11
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remusclaw posted:Not going into any details because of where we are in the series, but I got the impression from different sources that that the ending of this show was taken very poorly by much of the viewing public at the time. Yes and let us leave it at that for the moment. Jerusalem posted:One neat little touch I really loved is that when he takes supplies from the local store in the horrible prison island holding him against his will.... he leaves an IOU note because he's not some common thief I saw this as a "I am escaping but pretty drat sure I am going to end up back here in the end anyway." Jerusalem posted:That was real good but I do think it's a bit too open for its own good - the scheme seems to rely on a hell of a lot of things that could have gone wrong. I assume the gunrunners and even the gypsies were plants and that he was being monitored on his entire sea-journey, but even so what if once he got back to England the Prisoner had just decided gently caress it and legged it to some foreign clime, taken on a new identity and disappeared for good? He is too bullheaded to just disappear. They have tortured him and the agent within him wants to solve the mystery. But you are right, everything seems like a plant if you think about it... the boat leads to the light on the coastline which leads to the gypsies which leads to the roadblock which leads to the truck which taken him home.
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Aug 16, 2016 14:54
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York_M_Chan posted:Many Happy Returns PassTheRemote posted:I still wonder why he needed to shave, that's just not necessary. Jerusalem posted:That was real good but I do think it's a bit too open for its own good - the scheme seems to rely on a hell of a lot of things that could have gone wrong. I assume the gunrunners and even the gypsies were plants and that he was being monitored on his entire sea-journey, but even so what if once he got back to England the Prisoner had just decided gently caress it and legged it to some foreign clime, taken on a new identity and disappeared for good? Jerusalem posted:One neat little touch I really loved is that when he takes supplies from the local store in the horrible prison island holding him against his will.... he leaves an IOU note because he's not some common thief York_M_Chan posted:But you are right, everything seems like a plant if you think about it... the boat leads to the light on the coastline which leads to the gypsies which leads to the roadblock which leads to the truck which taken him home.
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Aug 17, 2016 05:09
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Maelstache posted:It's kind of crazy to think that McGoohan was, at the time, one of the biggest actors in Britain. The Prisoner pretty much finished his career, as the reaction to the ending was so negative he basically had to flee to America and spent the rest of his career doing TV movies and guest spots on Columbo. Random Stranger posted:And speaking of The Prisoner in other media https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-tN5MpI_g4
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Aug 17, 2016 22:46
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Tiggum posted:I saw it as just another method to try to get information from him. Maybe once he was back home, he'd slipand say something, either to one of their agents within British intelligence or to Butterworth. When they're poking holes in his story and remind him that he retired for unknown reasons and disappeared for months, I was fully expecting one of them to (too) casually ask,"I mean... why DID you retire, anyway?" and that would be the thing that sparked his suspicions - though I guess they already tried that in The Chimes of Big Ben (did that air before or after this episode?).
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Aug 17, 2016 22:51
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Jerusalem posted:When they're poking holes in his story and remind him that he retired for unknown reasons and disappeared for months, I was fully expecting one of them to (too) casually ask,"I mean... why DID you retire, anyway?" and that would be the thing that sparked his suspicions - though I guess they already tried that in The Chimes of Big Ben (did that air before or after this episode?). Chimes of Big Ben was the second episode going by airing date, I believe.
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Aug 18, 2016 01:23
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Jerusalem posted:I guess they already tried that in The Chimes of Big Ben (did that air before or after this episode?).
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Aug 18, 2016 05:21
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Episode 10 - It's Your Funeral Number 2 - Derren Nesbitt the most micromanaging of all the Number 2's. Nesbitt also loves 'Glasses Acting'  Number 6 seems so much more annoyed that they are trying something than he does angry. Later on though, we really get an idea of 6's morals, not willing to commit murder to escape, values the lives of his fellow Villagers, and also willing to tell his enemy what is going on. Kosho - the greatest sport ever invented and of Asian origin (apparently)  This is one of those Prisoner episode where I can't figure out what the hell Number 2's plan is until towards the end, it is a murder mystery before the murder actually takes place. They are also building on the management of The Village showing cracks. In the last episode we had the looming telephone and here we have a murderous coup. The "real" Number 2 has been on vacation this whole time! At this point, how long do you think Number 6 has been in The Village? Months? Years? In my mind I am thinking he's been there for about a year now. Did they say anything in the last episode when we got to London about how long he was gone? 
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Aug 22, 2016 18:56
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I get the impression he's been gone a few months, maybe 7-8. This episode felt a little weak to me, the idea of the Village staff turning on themselves is neat but the plot really makes no sense even in the convoluted and surreal way that episodes usually do - they convince the Prisoner of the assassination plot so that he'll warn the current Number 2 who will have been given doctored information showing that the Prisoner wasn't to be trusted so he won't believe the assassination plot is real.... but if nobody had told the Prisoner about the assassination plot in the first place nobody would have ever told Number 2 and even if they had it was already established that nobody believes the Jammers! Also Number 2 figures out the plot WAY too easily, given it was supposed to be some cleverly mastercrafted plan by his replacement it all got rumbled pretty quickly. All that said, the whole episode was worth it for,".....maybe the subject simply enjoys the view?"
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Aug 23, 2016 08:43
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It's Your Funeral isn't the greatest episode, but I love Derren Nesbitt's Number 2. He's like a 60s proto-Jeff Goldblum. I forget, who won Olympic gold in Kosho this year?
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Aug 23, 2016 08:50
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drat that kosho scenes goes on way too long. I feel that way every time I watch this episode and I wind up forgetting just how long it is before I watch it again. I have to wonder how much use that kosho gym gets anyway, or is it the Village's equivalent of that racquetball court that everyplace seems to build and no one ever uses. Other than that, I kind of like this episode. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense since if the masters of the Village are arranging the assassination (as they clearly are) why would there be reprisals? And that absurd Number 2 transition ceremony which old Number 2 takes way too seriously (obviously it's something they made up just for him so why does he care what protocol they use in it). I think I like it because it gives the Village itself a bit more texture. Also, the new Number 2's giant radio glasses are funny to me for some reason. My feeling is that the entire series has to take place over six to eight months. My main reason for thinking that is that the operators of the Village can't just wait forever. Number 6 is just too disruptive of an element to not do something about him. Eventually they've got to lose their patience and six months feels right to me for the point where they step up to extreme measures. Forktoss posted:I forget, who won Olympic gold in Kosho this year? That would be telling.
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Aug 23, 2016 13:31
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Random Stranger posted:drat that kosho scenes goes on way too long. I feel that way every time I watch this episode and I wind up forgetting just how long it is before I watch it again. I have to wonder how much use that kosho gym gets anyway, or is it the Village's equivalent of that racquetball court that everyplace seems to build and no one ever uses. It also makes sense if the Number 2's are prisoners in some way as well. As far as the reprisals, I tend to think the Village Masters would just use it as an excuse to grab more power and tighter controls. Think Angela Lansbury from The Manchurian Canidate: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCjBOZ4r9Ck Random Stranger posted:Also, the new Number 2's giant radio glasses are funny to me for some reason. I do not think it is the information they really want, I think they want something more, and that something would be lost if they use the extreme measures.
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Aug 23, 2016 14:19
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PassTheRemote posted:I do not think it is the information they really want, I think they want something more, and that something would be lost if they use the extreme measures. The definitely want to turn him and part of that is getting him to give up some information. But at some point Number 6 is just too much trouble to keep using the poisoned carrot approach of the Village and they'd just throw him in a hole somewhere. The television show may be "The Prisoner" but they've got more things to do in the Village than figure out why Number 6 likes to climb the bell tower or watch him play chess.
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Aug 23, 2016 20:02
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Random Stranger posted:That would be telling. I want information. INFORMATION!
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Aug 23, 2016 22:56
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Jerusalem posted:I want information. you won't get it
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Aug 24, 2016 14:11
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York_M_Chan posted:you won't get it By hook or by crook....... I will 
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Aug 24, 2016 22:48
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That Kosho scene goes on far too long, and the music is way too repetitive, but I am somehow still disappointed it apparently isn't real
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Aug 24, 2016 23:42
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Jerusalem posted:By hook or by crook....... I will I am not a user ID, I am a free man! Something that occurred to me is that it's kind of amusing that they can predict Number 6's behavior with incredible accuracy but they still can't get him to do what they want. There's a good metaphor for the themes of the series there. Random Stranger fucked around with this message at 00:20 on Aug 25, 2016 |
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Aug 25, 2016 00:17
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Random Stranger posted:I am not a user ID, I am a free man!   
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Aug 25, 2016 00:18
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York_M_Chan posted:Number 2 - Derren Nesbitt the most micromanaging of all the Number 2's. Nesbitt also loves 'Glasses Acting' Jerusalem posted:This episode felt a little weak to me, the idea of the Village staff turning on themselves is neat but the plot really makes no sense even in the convoluted and surreal way that episodes usually do - they convince the Prisoner of the assassination plot so that he'll warn the current Number 2 who will have been given doctored information showing that the Prisoner wasn't to be trusted so he won't believe the assassination plot is real.... but if nobody had told the Prisoner about the assassination plot in the first place nobody would have ever told Number 2 and even if they had it was already established that nobody believes the Jammers! Random Stranger posted:drat that kosho scenes goes on way too long. I feel that way every time I watch this episode and I wind up forgetting just how long it is before I watch it again. PassTheRemote posted:As far as the reprisals, I tend to think the Village Masters would just use it as an excuse to grab more power and tighter controls.
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Aug 25, 2016 03:27
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Jerusalem posted:By hook or by crook....... I will You win. It was gently caress you I'm not telling
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Aug 29, 2016 07:51
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Chokes McGee posted:You win. It was gently caress you I'm not telling But.... but the admin said I only had till today to get the inf- New message pop-up opens 
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Aug 29, 2016 08:09
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 Jack Kirby made a comic adaptation of The Prisoner
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Aug 30, 2016 02:14
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PassTheRemote posted:
What's going on with Six's left arm, is it part of another nefarious plot by Number Two 
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Aug 30, 2016 05:54
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