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bebaloorpabopalo posted:It was unplayable for them, then. This was mostly in USF4 days, though. These days its almost all US, followed by Dominican Republic, and the rare Mexico match.
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Aug 7, 2016 14:18
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Aug 7, 2016 16:18
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Has this been posted yet? https://gfycat.com/InsidiousHeavenlyCopepod
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Aug 8, 2016 00:13
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Love Stole the Day posted:Has this been posted yet? that looks cool and is almost entirely useless but it looks cool
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Aug 8, 2016 00:15
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Love Stole the Day posted:Has this been posted yet? I like the part where the combo drops after the overhead.
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Aug 8, 2016 00:20
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anime was right posted:that looks cool and is almost entirely useless Here's one that shows where the holes are in the combo: http://gfycat.com/SplendidAgreeableCougar
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Aug 8, 2016 00:21
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The combo dropped after the overhead. It's not actually a combo. Also that overhead is really slow and for it to actually be a mixup you have to be able to time a low similarly and still combo. But it has to actually lead into a combo, which that doesn't.
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Aug 8, 2016 00:24
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Fereydun posted:it's not intuitive and doesn't feel natural- the other things you listed you can visually see happening and connect a basic identification as to why it's happening How are any of the other combo limitation "natural". Hitstun scaling is literally "combo until magically it stops working" which is not any sort of normal behavior you can tie to. The same goes for all of the rest of them. If you prefer another system because it's easier to remember for you, I guess that's fine, but they all feel unnatural and arbitrary. Picking and choosing which you like better always felt like splitting hairs imo. NecroMonster posted:what makes the bursts in skullgirls any less a legitimate means of preventing infinites than hitstun scaling, pushback scaling, weight scaling, and/or juggle limits?? SG only had like ~2-3 true infinites I think, but Vanilla and SDE were full of TOD combos. I can only guess that's what the guy meant. As for how the systems are, they are pretty arbitrary (IPS = string starters, Undizzy = combo length), but they get the job done of stopping combos at the exact point Mike Z is happy with I guess. It's weird and and hard to conceptualize at first but it works okay.
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Aug 8, 2016 01:00
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I wanted the gif to end with "Princess"
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Aug 8, 2016 01:05
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Alfalfa The Roach posted:I wanted the gif to end with "Princess" Be the change you want to see in the world.
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Aug 8, 2016 01:33
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Dias posted:How is putting a country that gets 200 ping with every South American country in the same tournament as them a good idea? yeah, why is brazil in the tournament at all?
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Aug 8, 2016 05:07
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Been on tilt all goddamn day. Mad as gently caress at this game, gentlemen. And myself.
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Aug 8, 2016 19:54
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Ventana posted:How are any of the other combo limitation "natural". Hitstun scaling is literally "combo until magically it stops working" which is not any sort of normal behavior you can tie to. The same goes for all of the rest of them. If you prefer another system because it's easier to remember for you, I guess that's fine, but they all feel unnatural and arbitrary. Picking and choosing which you like better always felt like splitting hairs imo. to repeat: you can visually see the difference between 'ok my combo is going on longer so theres less hitstun/more gravity/more pushback when im doing more hits/as the combo gets longer' v.s. the ips 'oops i broke some rule now they burst out' one is naturally built into concepts that you can directly see and work from (see: 'oh they're falling faster/oh my attacks aren't stunning them as long/oh they're being pushed away more.) while the other is an actual set of rules that you have to work around instead of naturally being able to visually identify what exactly is going on that is making the other guy fall out if you think the IPS burst feels the same as pushback/gravity scaling then this is a lost cause to attempt to explain from my end, sorry Fereydun fucked around with this message at 20:12 on Aug 8, 2016 |
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Aug 8, 2016 20:09
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BlazBlue actually does a pretty good job with their combo system despite having an invisible combo timer, after a while it just becomes second nature to recognize when a combo has been going on for too long and there's a fixed amount of timers you need to be familiar with. Also, other than the timer itself pretty much anything goes (talking about BBCF, BBCP and BBCPEX apply combo timer penalties to repeating certain moves which was kinda dumb).
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Aug 8, 2016 21:03
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I don't really like hitstun scaling or gravity scaling because they make it hard to practice specific parts of combos in training mode. You have to do the entire combo because otherwise the timing on the links is completely different. Stuff like limits on wall bounces or ground bounces is fine I guess.
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Aug 8, 2016 21:39
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Skullgirls IPS system absolutely needed simpler rules than it had, but atleast it had rules that could be understood, if you were so inclined. Hitstun scaling and gravity scaling mean that optimal combos are all about combo routes that just barely work, and the only way to find those is trial and error. One thing Skullgirls' system does really well is make it easy to take a combo you already know and fit it to a new situation or starter, confidant that it will still work. In a game with hitstun or gravity scaling, a different situation might just make the combo drop, and theres no way to know without testing it.
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Aug 8, 2016 21:58
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there are strengths and weaknesses to every approach?!?!?
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Aug 8, 2016 22:00
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Fereydun posted:it's literally in the thing you quoted dude I dunno how much they hosed with the IPS system since vanilla, but I remember it being something like "start every combo string with a different normal, you get one OTG". After that they added undizzy to shorten combos or some poo poo and it got more arcane.
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Aug 8, 2016 22:05
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Each combo is now transcribed to Mike Z who verifies if it passes IPS in realtime.
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Aug 8, 2016 22:08
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Dias posted:I dunno how much they hosed with the IPS system since vanilla, but I remember it being something like "start every combo string with a different normal, you get one OTG". After that they added undizzy to shorten combos or some poo poo and it got more arcane. the original IPS was basically just instructions for creating 2 minute long combos
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Aug 8, 2016 22:12
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Fenn the Fool! posted:Skullgirls IPS system absolutely needed simpler rules than it had, but atleast it had rules that could be understood, if you were so inclined. Hitstun scaling and gravity scaling mean that optimal combos are all about combo routes that just barely work, and the only way to find those is trial and error. One thing Skullgirls' system does really well is make it easy to take a combo you already know and fit it to a new situation or starter, confidant that it will still work. In a game with hitstun or gravity scaling, a different situation might just make the combo drop, and theres no way to know without testing it. that's in large part due to the monstrous hitstun on things too so it's real give/take on that the easiest place to see the simplicity in action is magneto conversions, though it equally applies to stuff like iron man conversions (when will you ever see these) and the weirder dr. doom conversions there's also a lot of usage of groundbounce,wallbounce and soft knockdown for keeping conversions simple on non-airdash cancel chars though which is interesting in terms of design philosophy since it lets the chars with weaker movement options still maintain the ability to convert from weird poo poo but that's another topic entirely edit: actually a good example of a non-airdash char doin' it is captain america SJ converts as they're pretty freeform and obvious in terms of what you probably want to do for your conversion Fereydun fucked around with this message at 22:40 on Aug 8, 2016 |
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Aug 8, 2016 22:33
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I played A LOT of haggar in marvel 3, and his poo poo was dumb. Off a launch (and his combos typically have 2-4 launches) M, H, Headbutt, Wild Swing gives you the best damage, but depending on the circumstance you may have to do M, M, Headbut, Swing or just go straight from launch to Swing. Depending on if you started with a ground bounce, low, assist, command grab, air throw, or violent axe incoming mixup a different sequence of launch strings was optimal. I also played Dante, liked to do a lot of flashy stuff like acid rain loops, and I never really got any kind of clear picture when those would/wouldn't work. So, yeah, some characters did have combo routes that stopped working more or less arbitrarily depending on how the combo started. I mean, yeah, with a lot of character familiarity you can get pretty reliable with it, but the same amount of familiarity with Skullgirls and you'll know exactly what is or isn't going to work, even if you wind up comboing of some weird trade you've never seen happen before.
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Aug 8, 2016 23:11
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Fenn the Fool! posted:I played A LOT of haggar in marvel 3, and his poo poo was dumb. Off a launch (and his combos typically have 2-4 launches) M, H, Headbutt, Wild Swing gives you the best damage, but depending on the circumstance you may have to do M, M, Headbut, Swing or just go straight from launch to Swing. Depending on if you started with a ground bounce, low, assist, command grab, air throw, or violent axe incoming mixup a different sequence of launch strings was optimal. i mean, adjusting mm->swing or launch->swing is pretty clear based on how far along you are within the combo alongside the type of starter (ideal hit, groundbounce hit, throw conversion) so idk if that counts- you basically just omit whatever is slower the further you go on in a combo. the dante stuff though i 100% agree on since that dude is like the diciest char in regards to hitstun values in ultimate... he's got so much sketch stuff that requires a really strong feel for the char if you wanna be optimal or whatever i'm not too sure on your example for acid rain loops though since in vanilla they were pretty much foolproof as prop shredder was guaranteed if the first hit touched them. like the whole reason it was good was because you could stick it in at the end of combos for free since you got prop shredder off other poo poo that also caused soft kd/had fixed hitstun (cold shower, upguns from launcher) as long as you had an assist to guarantee that first hit touching (or enough hitstun to upguns which you almost always did)
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Aug 8, 2016 23:48
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the best system is uniel because it has a little bar that tells you when the combo will stop being valid
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Aug 9, 2016 00:17
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I briefly thought about talking about Skullgirls IPS + Drama system, but gently caress that arcane bullshit.
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Aug 9, 2016 00:36
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Aug 9, 2016 00:59
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Fereydun posted:i mean, adjusting mm->swing or launch->swing is pretty clear based on how far along you are within the combo alongside the type of starter (ideal hit, groundbounce hit, throw conversion) so idk if that counts- you basically just omit whatever is slower the further you go on in a combo. It's not clear, because there's no way to know what will or won't work outside of testing each specific situation. Eventually, yes, you memorize all the typical situations, but when something crazy happens, like you get some weird interaction with an assist or an unusual trade, it's not always clear what is or isn't going to work. I wish I had more concrete examples, but I haven't played in quite a while; what I can say is that with these Hagger relaunch loops, the normals you could do would change significantly based on the starter, and with very little rhyme or reason to what that starter was. For example, IIRC, the fairly lengthy command grab let you do a full combo afterward, but the very short L Violent Axe (great as an incoming cross-under mixup) meant you had to do a much weaker combo. Anyway, my overall point here is that these systems are a black box, you can't be sure of what's going to work in a given situation unless you test it. It's certainly true that some games and characters have more grey area then others, and you can make the argument that a given game or character has so little grey area that it's negligible, but Skullgirls' IPS has absolutely no grey area at all and I think that's a pretty cool piece of design. Fereydun posted:the dante stuff though i 100% agree on since that dude is like the diciest char in regards to hitstun values in ultimate... I didn't pick up Dante until Ultimate, I know Acid Rain loops were used a lot less often in Ultimate so I don't remember why I went to them. Meter gain maybe?
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Aug 9, 2016 01:16
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looks good lets charge people 5 dollars for it.
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Aug 9, 2016 01:19
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It's not necessarily cool design to have everything calculable by the player reliably 100% of the time
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Aug 9, 2016 01:51
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e: wrong thread sorry 
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Aug 9, 2016 02:06
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my favorite thing about the skullgirls combo system is how mike z kept insisting how clear and easy to understand it was in the face of literally everyone telling him it was too complicated. as a player you can write those people off as idiots but as a designer you don't have that privilege. edit: my other favorite thing is how he claimed the system obviated the need for systems like undizzy and then later on had to add undizzy Spermgod fucked around with this message at 11:47 on Aug 9, 2016 |
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Aug 9, 2016 11:44
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undizzy is a good system for really long combo game, you could make a bunch of crazy rear end rules off it but make everything combo into everything else, but stuff starts chopping off the max hits. repeat moves divide max hits by two, starting with lights divides by 3 (rounded down) etc etc. and you can visualize it pretty easily by just stating the max hits and move it down every time you do a thing that changes a rule.
anime was right fucked around with this message at 18:57 on Aug 9, 2016 |
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Aug 9, 2016 18:53
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Aug 9, 2016 20:51
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Juri in this game is ok but she doesn't feel as satisfying and feels slower and they took out options and gave her more of the same. Her cr HP counter crushes for some reason, cool i guess, 3 frame jab i think she has a jmp juggle, (but they took away her air kicks and gave her an air throw? why the air throw?) charging fireballs wasn't hard enough to warrant whatever is in. i really preferred horizontal pinwheels. her v skill is interesting but at the same time, clearly more useful in a gimmicky way the natural order to her "rekka" series is frustrating because without a jumpin or heavy, its HK to MK I liked sf4 juri more.
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Aug 10, 2016 00:18
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SectumSempra posted:
Her theme was better in 4, too.
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Aug 10, 2016 01:09
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It looks like Juri can store or partition her v-skill charge? Is that right? If it is, oh man, that's gonna lead to so much shenanigans.
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Aug 10, 2016 01:23
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A.o.D. posted:It looks like Juri can store or partition her v-skill charge? Is that right? Yes, you can dash out of it and use the charge when you see fit.
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Aug 10, 2016 09:04
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cloofish posted:Yes, you can dash out of it and use the charge when you see fit. you can also cancel it early to just do the dash but not the slow as hell crossup kick juri is frustrating because she has all these neat mechanics between charges and her vskill stuff that are cool and fun, but she's bad because no one else has to deal with them. sure, she gets a bunch of meterless damage from burning all her charges, but chun and ryu also get similar damage meterless and chun gets it off a jab so lmao why bother
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Aug 10, 2016 09:08
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What's a good way to train against jump ins? I play Ryu, and I notice most of the time I get punished hard and lose due to people jumping over my normals/fireballs and getting big combos. I've gotten pretty good at using the standing jab to deter cross ups, but the damage is small and you can only get them with a mixup after aa jab a few times before they block everything. DPs are obviously the best way, but I feel like people always know exactly when to jump, whether they're waiting for a fireball or a slower normal.
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Aug 10, 2016 19:34
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| # ? May 9, 2024 16:55 |
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nickmeister posted:What's a good way to train against jump ins? I play Ryu, and I notice most of the time I get punished hard and lose due to people jumping over my normals/fireballs and getting big combos. I've gotten pretty good at using the standing jab to deter cross ups, but the damage is small and you can only get them with a mixup after aa jab a few times before they block everything. DPs are obviously the best way, but I feel like people always know exactly when to jump, whether they're waiting for a fireball or a slower normal. I made this a while ago maybe it'll help https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fId0IjLrLE
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Aug 10, 2016 19:45
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