|
Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:I haven't touched this game in over a year, what's the mod scene like? I'm not looking for any total conversions or super massive overhauls. What's the best balance patch/mod? Are there any that make major changes to religion? wilderthanmild and Gabriel Pope's posts reminded me of everything I hate about the religion system. I'm interested in getting a couple campaigns in before Civ 6 hits but I don't want to play with an untouched religious system. Community Balance Patch and No Quit Multiplayer are probably the two biggest overhaul mods that fix up the mechanics. I'm more experienced with the former and unfortunately, Missionary spam is still a thing and it's still annoying, but at least the upgrades it gives are better than what Civ V normally offers.
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2016 02:46
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 30, 2024 17:54 |
|
|
Another thing I figured out recently is that if you have enough faith generation you can just bombard other holy cities with missionaries until it converts to your religion. I didn't think it would work but I did it two games in a row. It had the added effect of applying massive pressure to all his other cities and the whole empire converted over 15-20 turns.
|
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2016 02:50
|
|
|
Gabriel Pope posted:Sadly, they never bothered programming the AI to care about diplomacy when spreading their missionaries, so they'll pretty much keep it up as long as they can. There are a few ways around it: I ended up doing a little bit of the blocking prophets(ended up juggling one around for many turns until he got concerned about some city of his I converted) and a little bit of spamming missionaries to convert his stuff and take back mine. Turned out, every other civ on the continent was also angry at him for spamming missionaries, so when one of them paid me to go to war, I gladly did so. I then took his holy city and eradicated the religion before offering peace. His remaining city is now in my religion, and almost devoid of resources. There really should have been some kind of "block missionaries" mechanic. Just being as simple as being able to capture them in your territory would have been enough for me. wilderthanmild fucked around with this message at 04:02 on Aug 11, 2016 |
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2016 03:01
|
|
|
If you don't mind starting some poo poo or are going to war anyway you can just kill the missionaries/prophets. I've only played the game without the community balance patch, and it seems that going to war is the easiest solution against the AI pretty much all the time. It's kind of lame, and only made worse by the fact that this game doesn't actually have fascism.
|
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2016 03:28
|
|
|
You can also just plant an inquisitior in your city and the missionary won't even bother.
|
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2016 06:30
|
|
|
You can, but 1) you can't do this to nearby city-states and 2) the AI gets so much faith bonuses that they'll flood your neighbor CSes with missionaries anyway, and that's more than enough to overpower your pressure power. As far as I'm aware, the only real way to stop enemies from doing this is with Unity of the Prophets, and nobody who is seriously committing to Piety is going to take that over Jesuit Education.
|
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2016 06:53
|
|
|
The White Dragon posted:You can, but 1) you can't do this to nearby city-states and 2) the AI gets so much faith bonuses that they'll flood your neighbor CSes with missionaries anyway, and that's more than enough to overpower your pressure power. As far as I'm aware, the only real way to stop enemies from doing this is with Unity of the Prophets, and nobody who is seriously committing to Piety is going to take that over Jesuit Education. At what point does this become the case? In the game I referred to before I was easily able to keep local city states under my religion even with their spamming.
|
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2016 13:03
|
|
|
On Terra Firma posted:Another thing I figured out recently is that if you have enough faith generation you can just bombard other holy cities with missionaries until it converts to your religion. I didn't think it would work but I did it two games in a row. It had the added effect of applying massive pressure to all his other cities and the whole empire converted over 15-20 turns. If you're going to seriously try to spread your religion, it's easier to use a Great Prophet for this than it is to use missionaries.
|
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2016 13:20
|
|
|
If they spam too hard, they'll actually flood it. If a city's followers are equal to their pop, it takes like three spread religions from a regular missionary just to convert a single population point. It's brutal. And, of course, you can forget about spamming that hard yourself unless you get something like Stonehenge plus Faith-producing pantheon plus at least one natural wonder. Teching up makes it too expensive, especially if you hit the Scientific Theory -> timed Electricity/Oxford combo -> Radio slingshot the way I like to. Fur20 fucked around with this message at 13:38 on Aug 11, 2016 |
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2016 13:36
|
|
|
TooMuchAbstraction posted:If you're going to seriously try to spread your religion, it's easier to use a Great Prophet for this than it is to use missionaries. I was auto-creating a missionary every 3 turns until industrialization.
|
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2016 13:42
|
|
|
On Terra Firma posted:I was auto-creating a missionary every 3 turns until industrialization. Missionaries don't auto-create. Anyway, if you have that level of faith generation you'd be much better off spending it on great people.
|
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2016 15:24
|
|
|
Gort posted:Missionaries don't auto-create. They do if you set them as your automatic faith purchase.
|
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2016 15:29
|
|
|
Interesting. Upgraded from Win 7 to Win 10 a couple of weeks ago, and now, whenever I try to start Civ 5, it pops up the menu that lets me choose what version I want to play, opens up the game window, shows me the Firaxis logo, and promptly CtD. I've tried verifying the integrity of the game cache, restarting my computer, backing up and reinstalling, and then a full clean and another reinstall (without backup (except saves and mods on a flash drive)). Still no luck.
|
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2016 16:03
|
|
|
Datasmurf posted:Interesting. Upgraded from Win 7 to Win 10 a couple of weeks ago, and now, whenever I try to start Civ 5, it pops up the menu that lets me choose what version I want to play, opens up the game window, shows me the Firaxis logo, and promptly CtD. Try deleting the Civ folder from steamapps after you uninstall.
|
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2016 16:53
|
|
|
Deakul posted:Is that goon pack even maintained anymore? I can't find any working links. I've stopped supporting it, what with Civ VI on the horizon and its promises to increase mod support. Recompiling, Play testing, diagnosing, and fixing problems was just really time intensive. There should still be a working link to the last stable non-CBP version in my post history, as well as an improved stable CBP version that another user kept working on after I gave up. I suggest you use his, because I identified some game breaking glitches related to the Inuit Civ in my last mod pack.
|
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2016 17:35
|
|
|
Gort posted:Missionaries don't auto-create. Uh what? You can go into your religions tab and say that you want to automatically purchase a missionary when you've accumulated enough faith. You can do it for great prophets, inquisitors, mosques/pagoda/cathedral etc. I just said I did it up until industrialization, which is when glory to god kicked in and I could buy other types.
|
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2016 18:50
|
|
|
On Terra Firma posted:Uh what? You can go into your religions tab and say that you want to automatically purchase a missionary when you've accumulated enough faith. You can do it for great prophets, inquisitors, mosques/pagoda/cathedral etc. Just realize that all those missionaries you bought cut into your potential Great Scientist budget in the latter half of the game. Finishing Rationalism lets you buy Great Scientists with faith points once you're in, IIRC, the Industrial era.
|
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2016 20:37
|
|
|
Sure, but is science really worth the cost of the souls of the unsaved heathen?
|
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2016 21:38
|
|
|
Pvt.Scott posted:Sure, but is science really worth the cost of the souls of the unsaved heathen? Allow me to direct your attention to Exhibit A, the Giant Death Robot.
|
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2016 21:50
|
|
|
TooMuchAbstraction posted:Just realize that all those missionaries you bought cut into your potential Great Scientist budget in the latter half of the game. Finishing Rationalism lets you buy Great Scientists with faith points once you're in, IIRC, the Industrial era. It didn't cut into it at all? I destroyed an enemy religion while buffing my gold with tithe. I had also done this early enough to save up a considerable amount of faith to make the great scientist purchases regularly when I got GTG. It didn't interfere with getting as far into rationalism as I wanted to before my ideology.
|
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2016 23:20
|
|
|
On Terra Firma posted:It didn't cut into it at all? I destroyed an enemy religion while buffing my gold with tithe. I had also done this early enough to save up a considerable amount of faith to make the great scientist purchases regularly when I got GTG. It didn't interfere with getting as far into rationalism as I wanted to before my ideology. It doesn't interfere with unlocking culture policies, no, but faith points are infinitely bankable -- so those points you get in the 1000s BC can be used to buy a Great Scientist in the 1600s. Unless you spend them on something else first. I mean, it's not like you're "playing wrong" or anything. Just that the returns on using faith points on Great People is probably greater than the returns on using them for an equivalent number of missionaries.
|
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2016 23:39
|
|
|
Is there any way to turn off Great Prophet generation pre-Industrial Era? Because otherwise it's not exactly infinitely bankable..
|
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2016 23:58
|
|
|
Friend, if I only played Civ V optimally, I would've stopped playing long ago.
|
|
#
?
Aug 12, 2016 03:07
|
|
|
TooMuchAbstraction posted:Just realize that all those missionaries you bought cut into your potential Great Scientist budget in the latter half of the game. Finishing Rationalism lets you buy Great Scientists with faith points once you're in, IIRC, the Industrial era. If there is a latter half of the game.
|
|
#
?
Aug 12, 2016 03:37
|
|
|
Jesus I got lovely at this game when I stopped playing for a couple years...dunno what I'm even doing wrong, probably not expanding aggressively enough.
|
|
#
?
Aug 12, 2016 07:07
|
|
|
Playing against AI? Alternate between aiming for science and growth techs as appropriate to each era of the game, with some minor variations based on available luxuries at at start and victory type. Expand early, but stay small (3-5 cities), go tradition -> Patronage (optional) -> Rationalism, keep pace wit the average military score, and if you haven't completed the Oxford by the time you get Electricity, pop it for Radio and get an early ideology. Freedom is generally the best overall, for the abilities related to specialist happiness and food consumption. There's a few other tech catapults- GL -> Philosophy -> National College, and leaning tower of pisa -> porcelain tower, but wonders aren't even really necessary. Science and growth are king.
|
|
#
?
Aug 12, 2016 07:45
|
|
|
Gabriel Pope posted:Is there any way to turn off Great Prophet generation pre-Industrial Era? Because otherwise it's not exactly infinitely bankable..
|
|
#
?
Aug 12, 2016 17:37
|
|
|
I played a Deity game as Egypt where I got Mosques and Pagodas, so I was building as many cities as possible. At some point I was getting over 200 faith per turn and founding a new city every turn in an attempt to spend my faith instead of wasting it all on Great Prophets. Then Gandhi invaded me because I was building too many cities and the game stopped being fun.
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2016 02:33
|
|
|
On Terra Firma posted:I was auto-creating a missionary every 3 turns until industrialization. Out of curiosity, what setup were you using to generate this much faith? On a side note, I've realized that Boudica is one of the few leaders that actually kinda shines going Piety first instead of Tradition (or I guess Liberty or Honor) since she's such a strong religious leader. If you get a half-decent start with her it can be a race to see if you will improve your religion or unlock a reformation bonus first (if you grab the Reformation first, it will unlock the turn after you improve your religion). Doing this I've been able to get Pagodas, Cathedrals and then the +2 tourism per building purchased with faith almost guaranteed with her. Then again, I play at a lower difficulty level so I probably get to screw around more.
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2016 05:20
|
|
|
Playing my first game with the community balance patch bundle. Its almost a completely different and better game. Wow.
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2016 06:31
|
|
|
Ok, everyone talking about it has kinda piqued my interest. Does CBP fix my favorite AI targeting priority vulnerability, or do they not touch war AI too much?
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2016 06:46
|
|
|
CBP looks like a mess of bonuses to me, to be honest. Civ 5 Egypt Burial Tomb: +2 faith, +2 happiness, no maintenance, if somebody takes the city they get extra gold. Makes sense. CBP Egypt Burial Tomb: +3 Faith. 1 Great Work of Art of Artifact slot. Receive a free unique Egyptian Artifact when constructed. Receive a Tourism boost with the Civ based on your recent Culture output when a Land Trade Route originating here and targeting another Civ is completed. Land Trade Routes gain +50% range and +2 Gold. Nearby Truffles provide +2 Gold, Cotton +1 Production and +1 Culture, and Furs +1 Gold and +1 Production. Truffles?
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2016 06:58
|
|
|
egypt was famously near occitania
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2016 07:36
|
|
|
Byzantine posted:CBP looks like a mess of bonuses to me, to be honest. The CBP burial tomb is a better caravansary, truffle bonus is just a result of modifying the base building. CBP gives all luxuries extra tile bonuses with trade or culture buildings, which is pretty good considering many luxuries are rarely worth working in vanilla. Corvinus fucked around with this message at 07:44 on Aug 13, 2016 |
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2016 07:39
|
|
|
Yeah, some of the things that mod does is 1) add more resources and 2) make it so every resource has a building that gives it extra tile yields. You end up with a lot of buildings that have a lot of different bonuses to various resources, and it's hard to keep track of what boosts what. It all makes sense balance-wise once you start playing it, but it makes you realize how there's more to game design than game balance and that Firaxis did a lot of good work to the user experience side of things that the community patch throws out the window. Like, here's what the tooltip looks like for a couple buildings:   For some reason, the effects of the building itself are on the top and the bottom, separated by the information on actually building it. And there's redundant information as well. I suspect the top is meant to be the detailed description of the effects and the bottom is meant to be the summary, but for starters, why do you need both on the same tooltip by default? And then there's often information in one side that's not in the other. For the chancery, the information on the production bonus is only available in the summary on the bottom. The information on the specialist slot it contains and the boost to your diplomatic missions is only available on the top. The information on the paper resources and production boost for diplomats is in both places. It's an absolute mess and it makes it impossible to tell what any building actually does at a glance. Sometimes I find little things these buildings do by accident many turns after I've actually built them. That said, it's a mess you can sorta get used to. I'm a long-time player of Paradox grand strategy games and suffered through the likes of Victoria, so maybe I'm just used to this kind of thing. Still, the end result is that the game is a lot more balanced and you have a lot more playstyles opened up to you. The downside is that it's really not the same game anymore. They make some pretty dramatic overhauls to a couple systems so it feels kinda different. It's not just the same old civ but better balanced with more options. If you want that, then maybe the No Quitters patch is better? I don't actually know what that's like, although I know it's primarily balanced for multiplayer so I was afraid to try it in SP. I never liked Civ 5's overly-restrictive happiness system, as it was a poorly designed replacement for Civ 4's maintenance system. The patch's happiness system seems a lot less restrictive overall. You don't fear over-expanding wrecking your happiness. You also don't feel limited to only expanding to positions on the map that contain new luxuries. If it's just like a nice spot with good tile yields, you're incentivized settling there just for that alone. Your citizens don't like it when they live in cities with poor defense ratings, so you can build walls or station troops in them to appease them. Cities with very little gold generation will be unhappy due to poverty, build more gold-generating improvements to make them happier, or run trade routes out of them, or assign merchant specialists. It gives you multiple options to tackle any source of unhappiness and overall feels very organic. The limit of your expansion is your economic situation instead of some arbitrary-feeling hard limit. That said, I don't really have a good feel for how your economy is impacted by expanding and how much you should or shouldn't expand. It feels like there's not much feedback in that department. Anyway, after spending 150 turns on it, I like it. I think I'll try playing a couple campaigns with this and see how it goes. Dr. Video Games 0031 fucked around with this message at 08:37 on Aug 13, 2016 |
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2016 08:24
|
|
|
Oh, hmm, reading these patch notes on difficulty changes: "Settler is now on the level of Prince." Why do community patches insist on things like this? I don't play these games for the challenge, I just wanna mess around with the new fun poo poo you added. This is Long War all over again, pass.
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2016 09:32
|
|
|
Better question; what are the difficulty levels actually DOING?
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2016 09:59
|
|
|
The White Dragon posted:Oh, hmm, reading these patch notes on difficulty changes: "Settler is now on the level of Prince." Why do community patches insist on things like this? I don't play these games for the challenge, I just wanna mess around with the new fun poo poo you added. This is Long War all over again, pass. You've jumped to the wrong conclusion. The reason for this particular change is that if you're a player that has gone to the trouble of seeking out and installing mods for your game, you've probably gone far beyond the point where winning on Prince is any challenge. Therefore by raising the lowest difficulty to the level of Prince, you can use those other difficulty settings to provide more granularity in difficulty. It's not a macho "this mod is only for real players" thing at all. Bloodly posted:Better question; what are the difficulty levels actually DOING? Here's what the changelog says on difficulty - you can view the code on Github here: Difficulty Changes AI bonuses reduced overall, as AI is much more intelligent in the CP/CBP. AI no longer receives free techs or settlers (latter only at Deity) at start. AI can actually suffer from unhappiness on higher difficulties now. However, AI receives incremental bonuses every era (Gold, science, production, etc.). This, along with tactical AI improvements, helps it keep up with an advanced player without making the early game solely about 'catching up'. Social Policy and Tech cost per city increased slightly (2-4% more per city, depending on map size). Difficulties ramped up, removing the below-Prince difficulty levels. Settler is now roughly the equivalent of vanilla Prince, Chieftain - of vanilla King, etc.
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2016 10:06
|
|
|
Gort posted:You've jumped to the wrong conclusion. Well okay, I trust you enough to take your word for it. I'll give it a shot, the rest of the features sound too cool to pass up.
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2016 10:26
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 30, 2024 17:54 |
|
|
I will say it's a big hit to my ego to ragequit on Prince in CBP when I was used to comfortable wins at Emperor in vanilla. I also can't really defend against Dr Video Games 0031's criticisms of the building UIs - the vanilla ones are much more friendly. Maybe it would've been better for them to rename Settler to Prince and add some "super god difficulty" levels above deity.
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2016 10:41
|
|