|
Megaman's Jockstrap posted:Anyway, you can go to movie screen grabs and get more shots to compare and contrast. I'm sure I missed a bunch as I am a rank amateur at this poo poo.
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2016 05:35
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 21, 2024 00:10 |
|
|
Reeves played a god amongst mortals, Cavil plays a mortal become god. Obviously not literally, they were both born with powers, but Reeves has a sort of aloofness to him. It's why he can have so much fun. He's ultimately above most of the problems he encounters, so he can take time to enjoy how silly the guy hitting him with the crowbar or how awestruck Lois is with his power. Cavil, otoh, feels very tied in to everything on an almost personal level. Reeves was sent into a rage when the woman he loved died. Cavil was sent into a rage at witnessing casual misogyny against someone he barely knows. It feels less like he's disconnected in his early scenes and more like he's giving himself a wide berth.
|
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2016 05:43
|
|
|
This is some good stuff. Hodgepodge posted:I also like pretending that BvS is a sequel to the Nolan movies, because it adds something to Batman's fears about Superman if they come from having been burned once by putting his faith in a good person who let himself be manipulated into nihilism after losing the love of his life. Yeah, Bruce's line asking Alfred about how many good people are left / how many stayed that way absolutely comes with the expectation that the audience will fill in the blanks based on the the Nolan movies, and particularly The Dark Knight. It's only not a sequel because they don't want to insult Nolan's trilogy, and I guess so that they can make a new Joker.
|
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2016 05:53
|
|
|
Luminous Obscurity posted:Reeves played a god amongst mortals, Cavil plays a mortal become god. That "aloofnes" from Reeve's performance is the reason I never could get too invested on those movies in the first place. He was too perfect and unrelatable for me, he still got a noticeable influence on me since he colored my impression of Superman on every media. Making me find Superman boring. In contrast, Cavill's performance with his investement and struggle to find a place in the world was the first time I found Superman as an interesting and appealing character. Whereas Reeve's Superman was this bigger than life character, Cavill is the kind of guy I could find in the bus stop and strike a conversation with.
|
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2016 06:14
|
|
|
Dark_Tzitzimine posted:That "aloofnes" from Reeve's performance is the reason I never could get too invested on those movies in the first place. He was too perfect and unrelatable for me, he still got a noticeable influence on me since he colored my impression of Superman on every media. Making me find Superman boring. I mean yeah, Reeve is basically winking every time he saves someone, but I don't think aloof is the right word at all. I like Cavill okay but nothing he's done yet has matched the anguish Reeve displayed when Lois died in Superman.
|
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2016 07:14
|
|
|
TheManWithNoName posted:I mean yeah, Reeve is basically winking every time he saves someone, but I don't think aloof is the right word at all. I like Cavill okay but nothing he's done yet has matched the anguish Reeve displayed when Lois died in Superman. True but for me that was undermined when he tells reality to gently caress itself and he goes back in time to save Lois. That is what I mean when I say I couldn't connect with Reeve's version of Superman, there's no real struggle on what he does, and even when he loses, he breaks the rules somehow to change the outcome,
|
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2016 07:20
|
|
|
Apparently CinemaSins have its own Bizarro World counterpart. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5S7rjUbC14 Spoilers for BvS Ultimate if you want to watch that video.
|
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2016 10:32
|
|
|
Dark_Tzitzimine posted:True but for me that was undermined when he tells reality to gently caress itself and he goes back in time to save Lois. That is what I mean when I say I couldn't connect with Reeve's version of Superman, there's no real struggle on what he does, and even when he loses, he breaks the rules somehow to change the outcome, Arguably a product of being inspired by silver age Superman. which is where most of the 'superdickery' and random rear end superpowers come from. Rigged Death Trap fucked around with this message at 11:54 on Aug 10, 2016 |
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2016 11:50
|
|
|
The MSJ posted:Apparently CinemaSins have its own Bizarro World counterpart. gently caress this dumb Internet.
|
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2016 11:52
|
|
|
Luke Cage trailer is up http://www.avclub.com/article/luke-cage-becomes-harlems-defender-first-official--240818 I think it looks good.
|
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2016 12:19
|
|
|
Everything about the atmosphere of Luke Cage looks great and I love that they got the guy who plays Remy from House of Cards to be the Kingpin. One thing bothered me though... Luke, you do know that when you save the Chinese restaurant from being shaken down by the mob that you probably cost them the same amount of money or more by throwing a guy through their window? At the very least you just jacked up their insurance rates.
|
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2016 13:54
|
|
|
It's crazy how much breathing room the netflix marvel stuff is given compared to the movies. I get the financial stakes are lower, but drat.
|
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2016 15:08
|
|
|
Luminous Obscurity posted:Reeves played a god amongst mortals, Cavil plays a mortal become god. I wonder how much of this difference in tone is because of available technology. Reeve Superman was limited to basically lifting cars and flying kinda slowly and silly-looking, due to the limitations of special effects. It makes sense that he'd be handling tiny threats like guys with crowbars and shooting the poo poo with Lois. We now have the technology to actually show Superman breaking the sound barrier and plowing through sky scrapers, and it looks real. It would be really hosed up if Cavill looked like he was having a "good time" while 9/11ing all over the place.
|
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2016 17:43
|
|
|
Reeve is the more dominate Superman because of how he's shot. That's what I wanted to show. Not "which one is better". Reeve is in the center of the frame. If he's sharing the frame with somebody, he dominates. He looms over Lois. His costume jumps out from the frame and his bright blue eyes are emphasized. He's visually very bold. Cavill's Superman is shot differently. He's at the periphery. Or frequently color-graded into being part of the scenery. Or made small by establishing shots, or shown in desolation/stark environments (there's one aspect I didn't mention: Superman: The Movie has Superman in Lois's lively apartment, in Lex's lush underground lair, on city streets. It's amazing how much time Man of Steel's Superman spends in lifeless, dead environments like the Arctic, or a harsh interrogation room, or a techno-nightmare alien ship, or standing in front of a salt flat) Does anyone feel like the distant, cooler Man of Steel Superman disappears in the Smallville fight? That the Superman in that scene is much more "present" than in the rest of the movie? Maybe some of that can be attributed to the shot choice, which is decidedly Reeve-like: Big, dominating Superman shots where he contrasts with the environment (not as much as Superman the Movie, but it's there.) 
|
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2016 18:28
|
|
|
TheManWithNoName posted:I mean yeah, Reeve is basically winking every time he saves someone, but I don't think aloof is the right word at all. I like Cavill okay but nothing he's done yet has matched the anguish Reeve displayed when Lois died in Superman. I dunno, when the Kryptonians were loving with his mom he let loose. Cavill's Superman has unmatched self-control from the years of being unsure and hosed with as a kid. It makes sense that the only times he really gets angry are when his mom, who was basically the person who gave him that self-control, is in danger somehow.
|
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2016 18:46
|
|
|
Yoshifan823 posted:I dunno, when the Kryptonians were loving with his mom he let loose. Cavill's Superman has unmatched self-control from the years of being unsure and hosed with as a kid. It makes sense that the only times he really gets angry are when his mom, who was basically the person who gave him that self-control, is in danger somehow. He also loses it when his dad sacrifices himself, and when he kills Zod. When he kills Zod there's even an echo sound effect like in Superman: the Movie. I think it's more shocking in Superman: The Movie precisely because Reeve's Superman seems like such a happy guy, mostly, and because this was the first real outburst (he doesn't do that when his dad dies). When he lets loose like that it's primal. Cavil's Superman has a shorter distance to travel to that emotional state and has done it previously.
|
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2016 18:54
|
|
|
Terrible Horse posted:I wonder how much of this difference in tone is because of available technology. Reeve Superman was limited to basically lifting cars and flying kinda slowly and silly-looking, due to the limitations of special effects. It makes sense that he'd be handling tiny threats like guys with crowbars and shooting the poo poo with Lois. It's more about the era rather than technology. In film, the 70's were the height of exploitation films, gritty tales and anti-heroes. Superman was someone who was larger than life, who always did the right thing and was always there to lend a helping hand. He was the antithesis of your typical protagonist of the time. It's also why people are more open to a flying god around. Crime in New York in the 70's was the highest it has ever been and just wasn't overall a very good place. So if someone like Superman came around and was helping the little guy, they wouldn't stop to think of what it meant. It wasn't really that kind of film and that kind of film wouldn't really fly today. A year before this film Star Wars came out and that was breaking the mold too. Man of Steel and Batman v Superman are also reflective of the era they are created in. Man of Steel humanizes Superman more and shows how living in a culture of fear and paranoia stunted his growth as a superhero. Clark being Superman in that film is the first time he ever pushed himself with his powers, ever. So the results were a mess for everyone involved when he head to face off against people who were bred to master themselves in combat. Batman v Superman is a direct response to that film and how our culture of fear and paranoia is really toxic towards exceptional, different people - even if they're trying to do the right thing. Be it outright contempt for someone like Superman or worshiping the ground he treads upon. I still think Man of Steel needed a sequel to expand upon the world coming to support Superman, but I think BvS did an alright job with the montages.
|
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2016 19:10
|
|
|
TheManWithNoName posted:I mean yeah, Reeve is basically winking every time he saves someone, but I don't think aloof is the right word at all. I like Cavill okay but nothing he's done yet has matched the anguish Reeve displayed when Lois died in Superman. He showed crazy anguish when he killed Zod. And his flash of anger when Zod was threatening his mom was imho the most relatable part of the movie.
|
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2016 20:52
|
|
|
Henry Cavill is a better Superman in The Man from U.N.C.L.E than any of the Zack Snyder movies.
|
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2016 22:02
|
|
|
Bro Dad posted:Henry Cavill is a better Superman in The Man from U.N.C.L.E than any of the Zack Snyder movies. This being the guy who – admittedly, very entertainingly – sat around, drank wine, and ate a sandwich while watching someone slowly be murdered.
|
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2016 22:41
|
|
|
I think you meant to say Henry Cavill is a more closeted gay Superman in The Man from U.N.C.L.E.
|
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2016 23:48
|
|
|
I enjoyed Man of Steel more than Superman: The Movie overall but I like Reeve better as the central character, which hardly makes sense I know, but Reeve just loving god damned REEKS "Superman" every time you look at him. Maybe Megaman's Jockstrap is right and it has to with framing and poo poo like the vibrant colors. I'd never given it much thought. Maybe it has to do with the fact that Reeve was a blank slate and an unknown actor that you could project your idea of the character on to. It's an interesting discussion though and a welcome and much needed shot in the arm to a thread that can occasionally grow stale.
|
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2016 00:08
|
|
|
It's not just the shot composition. There's lots of elements in each film that are different, including story beats and characterization and yes, even idealogy. But as I compared the movies I couldn't help but notice that the visuals of each movie handles the characters differently. And I think it contributes to the emotional engagement of the viewers. There's a famous film experiment where participants were shown an emotional scene, and then the picture of a neutral face. The participants would always say that the neutral face had emotions on it - emotions that they themselves projected, based on the previous scene. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuleshov_Effect Cinematography matters.
|
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2016 00:40
|
|
|
No matter how their respective scenes are shot, I can't help but think that Reeves looks like a lanky greaser compared to Cavill. The latter fills out half the screen even in shots so wide you can see both poles of the earth, the former might be built like a poo poo brickhouse but you couldn't tell because of the slimming effects of the fabric his costume is made of.
|
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2016 12:25
|
|
|
The other thing about Reeves is his easy confidence. He comes off as more assured, defined in character and personality and mature and I think it helps with the sense of feeling safe with him so it feels more like what you'd expect of Superman. Cavill's Superman is still finding his way in this modern world and maybe one doesn't have as much faith or trust in his abilities not as a hero but as a person you can rest on. He doesn't exude a sense of control I think Reeves Superman does.
|
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2016 13:08
|
|
|
Christopher Reeve is was way taller than Henry Cavill. Reeve was huge for his role but at the time form fitting really wasn't a thing.  He was pretty huge.
|
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2016 13:13
|
|
|
God drat, it's really amazing how little of that you see in the movies. Though I guess a smaller actor would have looked like that dweeb from the Supergirl show from a while back.
|
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2016 13:26
|
|
|
Yeah people described him as Atlas Like for his role he gained 40lbs of Muscle and trained with Darth Vader. He was way bigger than Cavil. You also don't notice his bulk as Clark Kent because he wore big clothes and physically slumped. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIaF0QKtY0c Again, the greatest actor who will ever play Superman.
|
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2016 13:47
|
|
|
Grendels Dad posted:God drat, it's really amazing how little of that you see in the movies. Though I guess a smaller actor would have looked like that dweeb from the Supergirl show from a while back. It's because Spandex does exactly what it's designed to do.
|
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2016 13:51
|
|
|
Couldn't find a similar infographic for Clarks but here's a comparative study of Bruces
|
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2016 13:56
|
|
|
Hollismason posted:Yeah people described him as Atlas Like for his role he gained 40lbs of Muscle and trained with Darth Vader. He was way bigger than Cavil. You also don't notice his bulk as Clark Kent because he wore big clothes and physically slumped. I will say that his performance as Clark Kent is so starkly different from Superman that you could easily think they're different people. The lighting and makeup when he's Kent seems to make him look sickly, whereas his appearance as Superman is much tanner. His physical performance in both roles is just incredible. I can only compare it to the night-and-day of Kevin Conroy's Batman and Bruce Wayne. In Snyder's world, secret identities are essentially cast aside to focus on who this guy really is so there's no contrast at all. I think Cavill's Superman has more depth, but I'd never take anything away from Reeve's performance. It's perfect for those movies.
|
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2016 14:00
|
|
|
I didn't realize that Michael Keaton was so (relatively) short. Or that he was only 159 pounds in Batman.
|
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2016 14:28
|
|
|
I'm a huge supernerd about Superman: The Movie, and while it has problems, the aforementioned scene where he screams and launches into the sky is god drat amazing. Also the scene where he contemplates telling Lois in her apartment. The glasses come off, he straightens, and straight up changes the demeanor in a way that shows just how different Clark is from Superman and I wish Snyder Superman showed even a fraction of that sort of stuff. Cavill does fine here and there but by and large he seems unable to emote or convey plot through his face. Cavill only really feels like Clark/Superman with the tub scene (Ultimate Cut) or at the end with the "you are my world". The rest of the time he's a robot that's missing its emotion chip.
|
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2016 14:55
|
|
|
Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:I didn't realize that Michael Keaton was so (relatively) short. Or that he was only 159 pounds in Batman. 
|
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2016 15:11
|
|
|
I think they're just different approaches. Secret identities are all but disregarded in Snyder's movies so there's no need for that kind of transformation scene with Lois. Clark is always himself, whether or not he's in a suit. I mean, Lois figures out who he is with like 10 minutes of research in Man of Steel, as you'd expect in a world where Lois isn't faceblind in order to keep the secret identity conceit going.
MeatwadIsGod fucked around with this message at 15:32 on Aug 11, 2016 |
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2016 15:18
|
|
|
Channeling Nic Cage from Vampire's Kiss.
|
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2016 15:22
|
|
|
You have to keep in mind, too, that Clark in Superman: The Movie spent the rest of his teenage years and some of his adulthood in the fortress of solitude learning from holographic Jor-El. So he was able to mature into the role. In Man of Steel he has like half a days worth of flying around. As for the secret identity thing, in Man of Steel it was a good way of establishing that Lois was a drat good investigative journalist but in Batman v Superman and Suicide Squad, it was a good way of showing off the police state we live in these days. The government and big corporations know everything about you and if they don't, they will.
|
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2016 15:40
|
|
|
Jimbot posted:The government and big corporations know everything about you and if they don't, they will. Thankfully, Enchantress has helped to end the Spy State Apparatus.
|
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2016 15:45
|
|
|
MacheteZombie posted:Thankfully, Enchantress has helped to end the Spy State Apparatus. Waller looks miserable at the end, but this is just her opening to create SHIELD.
|
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2016 15:48
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 21, 2024 00:10 |
|
|
HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:Waller looks miserable at the end, but this is just her opening to create SHIELD. I love how hollow Batfleck's warning to her felt. "Don't do that anymore" says the Batman .... While Waller is already padding her next playbook. One of the best comic book movie villains so far. While probably difficult to schedule, I'd love if she just showed up in scenes of gov't agencies discussing whatever current plot is unfolding at the time. Was ARGUS named dropped in SS at all? I can't recall.
|
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2016 15:55
|
|