Auspol August: The Greens Echo Chamber

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Wheezle: Aug 13, 2007; 420 stop boats erryday

BBJoey posted:

perhaps the solution is not to introduce some sort of bizarro one-off levy/tax but to enforce existing regulations

Outrageous.

# ? Aug 11, 2016 06:25

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# ? Jun 1, 2024 06:48

Recoome: Nov 9, 2013; Matter of fact, I'm salty now.

open24hours posted:

This would be a valid comparison if Uber had to comply with the same regulations as the taxi industry. In your example it would be like a Baker's Delight that ignores labour laws, pours their old oil down the drain, doesn't have insurance, uses rigged scales, etc.

[e:fb]

lmao taxi companies are just salty because they are losing business because they have been consistently poo poo for a very long time

# ? Aug 11, 2016 06:27

open24hours: Jan 7, 2001

Recoome posted:

lmao taxi companies are just salty because they are losing business because they have been consistently poo poo for a very long time

That's really not what the argument is about. You'd have a hard time finding someone without an investment in the taxi industry that opposes reform. The question is what type of reform is desirable.

# ? Aug 11, 2016 06:29

WhiskeyWhiskers: Oct 14, 2013; "هذا ليس عادلاً."
"هذا ليس عادلاً على الإطلاق."
"كان هناك وقت الآن."
(السياق الخفي: للقراءة)

Doctor Spaceman posted:

Then they should be fined, which isn't the same as taxing them.

WhiskeyWhiskers posted:

Maybe don't let them operate and don't give out compensation until you have that issue squared away though?

# ? Aug 11, 2016 06:30

WhiskeyWhiskers: Oct 14, 2013; "هذا ليس عادلاً."
"هذا ليس عادلاً على الإطلاق."
"كان هناك وقت الآن."
(السياق الخفي: للقراءة)

Also the gig economy is loving shithouse and Uber should be fought on principle alone.

# ? Aug 11, 2016 06:31

open24hours: Jan 7, 2001

Hopefully they'd be prevented from continuing to operate in addition to the fine.

# ? Aug 11, 2016 06:31

BBJoey: Oct 31, 2012

open24hours posted:

Perhaps it is, but it's not going to happen is it?

neither is making them pay for disrupting the taxi industry hope this helps

# ? Aug 11, 2016 06:34

starkebn: May 18, 2004; "Oooh, got a little too serious. You okay there, little buddy?"

I also think the model Uber uses is pretty poo poo, but making them pay Taxi companies just wouldn't be right. Regulations just need to be sorted out so they are both competing on a level playing field.

If Uber is allowed to basically run the same business without the same licencing and insurance etc then it has to be okay for traditional companies to do that too.

starkebn fucked around with this message at 06:37 on Aug 11, 2016

# ? Aug 11, 2016 06:35

open24hours: Jan 7, 2001

BBJoey posted:

neither is making them pay for disrupting the taxi industry hope this helps

What is the actual point that you're trying to make here?

SA are apparently charging, or at least trying to charge, a levy on Uber rides to fund their compensation scheme.
http://indaily.com.au/news/2016/06/03/doubts-over-taxi-levy-as-uber-flouts-sa-laws/

# ? Aug 11, 2016 06:38

BBJoey: Oct 31, 2012

you yourself said uber's entire business model is ignoring regulations and now you expect them to play along with a government levy? uber will do whatever the gently caress they want because they know no government is going to put their foot down.

e: lomarf, the article itself says uber is in no uncertain terms not going to pay the levy. the solution to 'this company is not playing by the rules' is not 'make a new rule that makes them pay for the people they put out of business' but enforcing the rules you already have in place

BBJoey fucked around with this message at 06:48 on Aug 11, 2016

# ? Aug 11, 2016 06:45

Lid: Feb 18, 2005; And the mercy seat is awaiting,
And I think my head is burning,
And in a way I'm yearning,
To be done with all this measuring of proof.
An eye for an eye
And a tooth for a tooth,
And anyway I told the truth,
And I'm not afraid to die.

Uber v Taxi is Free Market v Monopoly.

Its why there are no winners.

Lax regulations v low standards through control

# ? Aug 11, 2016 06:46

Lid: Feb 18, 2005; And the mercy seat is awaiting,
And I think my head is burning,
And in a way I'm yearning,
To be done with all this measuring of proof.
An eye for an eye
And a tooth for a tooth,
And anyway I told the truth,
And I'm not afraid to die.

Something similar has happened before

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laker_Airways

While Laker Airways failed, low fares and buying meals on board are becoming popular. Similarly, buying tickets on the day of travel has been adopted by airline shuttles plying the United States' Northeast corridor (where competition with the Acela Express is fierce) and on the Eastern shores of Australia.

Laker's most important legacy was that pioneering low-fare services across the Atlantic helped pave the way for low-cost airlines such as EasyJet and Ryanair, liberating the industry from the regulatory straitjacket IATA had imposed for decades in collusion with governments. These governments invariably were sole or majority owners of most IATA airlines. This was Laker's greatest contribution to its industry's future development.

Lid fucked around with this message at 06:51 on Aug 11, 2016

# ? Aug 11, 2016 06:49

Capt.Whorebags: Jan 10, 2005

If compensation is to be paid, then it should be by the government.

I'm no fan of the taxi cartels, but they did pay massive licencing costs to the state government on the proviso they would get semi exclusive rights in return. Personally I have no sympathy for idiots that bought taxi plates as a retirement plan - they have fiat value only and are subject to massive regulatory risk, as now playing out.

# ? Aug 11, 2016 06:52

open24hours: Jan 7, 2001

BBJoey posted:

you yourself said uber's entire business model is ignoring regulations and now you expect them to play along with a government levy? uber will do whatever the gently caress they want because they know no government is going to put their foot down.

e: lomarf, the article itself says uber is in no uncertain terms not going to pay the levy. the solution to 'this company is not playing by the rules' is not 'make a new rule that makes them pay for the people they put out of business' but enforcing the rules you already have in place

Well, what is the solution? In an ideal world what would you like to see happen?

# ? Aug 11, 2016 06:53

WhiskeyWhiskers: Oct 14, 2013; "هذا ليس عادلاً."
"هذا ليس عادلاً على الإطلاق."
"كان هناك وقت الآن."
(السياق الخفي: للقراءة)

Nationalise the taxi industry?

# ? Aug 11, 2016 06:54

open24hours: Jan 7, 2001

If it works. I'm not sure I'm convinced a nationalised taxi industry would deliver better or cheaper services though.

# ? Aug 11, 2016 06:58

WhiskeyWhiskers: Oct 14, 2013; "هذا ليس عادلاً."
"هذا ليس عادلاً على الإطلاق."
"كان هناك وقت الآن."
(السياق الخفي: للقراءة)

It'd get rid of the rent-seeking shitlords who buy the licences, I'd have to imagine that would cut away a lot of the bloat.

# ? Aug 11, 2016 07:00

BBJoey: Oct 31, 2012

open24hours posted:

Well, what is the solution? In an ideal world what would you like to see happen?

dictatorship of the proletariat

# ? Aug 11, 2016 07:01

NPR Journalizard: Feb 14, 2008

open24hours posted:

If it works. I'm not sure I'm convinced a nationalised taxi industry would deliver better or cheaper services though.

Why not? Remove the need for a profit, and prices should come down. Increase the ability of central management of a standard level of service.

# ? Aug 11, 2016 07:01

open24hours: Jan 7, 2001

Frogmanv2 posted:

Why not? Remove the need for a profit, and prices should come down. Increase the ability of central management of a standard level of service.

Right, it's more that I don't trust them not to gently caress it up in some monumental way.

# ? Aug 11, 2016 07:06

NPR Journalizard: Feb 14, 2008

open24hours posted:

Right, it's more that I don't trust them not to gently caress it up in some monumental way.

I dont have faith that private enterprise wont gently caress it up in some monumental way either.

# ? Aug 11, 2016 07:14

open24hours: Jan 7, 2001

At least if a private company does it there's a chance they'll go broke.

The way things are at the moment it'd probably be contracted out to a private operator and we'd get the worst of both worlds.

# ? Aug 11, 2016 07:17

WhiskeyWhiskers: Oct 14, 2013; "هذا ليس عادلاً."
"هذا ليس عادلاً على الإطلاق."
"كان هناك وقت الآن."
(السياق الخفي: للقراءة)

If you nationalised the industry you could also reform it so that taxi drivers weren't paid out of the fares, but were paid an hourly wage.

# ? Aug 11, 2016 07:25

NPR Journalizard: Feb 14, 2008

open24hours posted:

At least if a private company does it there's a chance they'll go broke.

The way things are at the moment it'd probably be contracted out to a private operator and we'd get the worst of both worlds.

And if the government fucks it up, there is a chance they will be voted out.

Cant really disagree with the second part. I mean, i have no experience with contracts and poo poo, but even I can think of some minimum service level clauses that would gently caress a company over hard if they failed to meet expectations, but that would require the government standing up to business, and that just doesnt happen.

# ? Aug 11, 2016 07:30

Zenithe: Feb 25, 2013; _{Ask not to whom the Anidavatar belongs; it belongs to thee.}

Malcolm-Ieuan: Roberts., the living soul is on Q&A next Monday.

# ? Aug 11, 2016 08:29

aejix: Sep 18, 2007; It's about finding that next group of core players we can win with in the next 6, 8, 10 years. Let's face it, it's hard for 20-, 21-, 22-year-olds to lead an NHL team. Look at the playoffs.

That quote is from fucking 2018. Fuck you Jim; Pillbug

Filing tonight's Clarke and Dawe in the top 10 of all time

# ? Aug 11, 2016 09:58

Cartoon: Jun 20, 2008; poop

aejix posted:

Filing tonight's Clarke and Dawe in the top 10 of all time

This one? http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-08-11/clarke-and-dawe:-mixed-results-and-scott%27s-help/7720900

Also looks like there will be some consequences:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-08-11/census-malcolm-turnbull-slams-abs-over-failure/7718584

quote:

Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull has unloaded on the Australian Bureau of Statistics (ABS) over its handling of the botched census, but says possible sackings will not come until after a full investigation.

Key points:

The site has gone back online, more than two days after it was disabled
"This has been a failure of the ABS," the PM says
Turnbull's special cyber security advisor says more attacks expected
The census is now back online, almost two days after it was shut down following a denial of service cyber attack.

Earlier, Mr Turnbull fronted press gallery reporters in Canberra, expressing his unhappiness over events which he said had "inconvenienced millions of Australians" after the ABS shut down the census website on census night in response to what it called a series of denial of service cyber attacks. The census collection process was paralysed for days, leading the Labor Party to describe it as one of the biggest shambles in the history of the Australian government. "Which heads roll, where and when, will be determined once the review is complete," Mr Turbull said. "I made it very, very clear that what we needed to do was be absolutely straight and frank with the Australian people. This has been a failure of the ABS."

The head of the Australian Bureau of Statistics, David Kalisch, delivered another mea culpa, in the form of a statement to reporters in Canberra this afternoon. "I would again apologise for the inconvenience suffered by many Australians," he said. He said the website was only put back online after a written assurance from the Australian Signals Directorate that the system was safe and secure. He did not take any questions from reporters.<snip>

OK so please explain to me how with key decisions being taken by 'the government' a rotating cast of worthless ministers and ongoing cuts to an often leaderless ABS how this is the ABS's fault? And as far as consequences for the minister go:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-08-11/census-minister-nominated-for-ice-bucket-challenge-by-joyce/7720822

quote:

Census: Barnaby Joyce revives ice bucket challenge, nominates Michael McCormack By political reporter Anna Henderson Updated about 3 hours ago

Barnaby Joyce has sought to pour cold water on the census crisis facing the Government � by nominating the responsible minister for the ice bucket challenge. The challenge went viral in 2014, with millions of people the world over filming themselves tipping ice water over their heads to raise funds for motor neurone disease research. Mr Joyce revived the tradition on a wintery day in his electorate, after being nominated by a constituent. He was then pressed by a reporter to nominate others who should participate. Mr Joyce suggested a handful of colleagues, including minister Michael McCormack. "I think with Michael's work with the census this gives another degree of difficulty for him," he said. Mr McCormack has faced national outcry over the Government's handling of the national online survey, after it was shut down at a crucial point on the designated census night, following a cyber attack. His own parliamentary website was down for maintenance for a number of hours yesterday, after it appeared he was subjected to a personal hack, with a hyperlink entitled "gay sex" appearing on its homepage.

Thanks Barnyardaby you're a barrel, or is that a bucket.

# ? Aug 11, 2016 10:29

Comstar: Apr 20, 2007; Are you happy now?

Jumpingmanjim posted:

Census site is back up.

Not the email system! If you tick the box to receive an email copy of your password, FAIL FAIL AGAIN. It won't let you proceed until you untick it. God help if you didn't write it down and our crappy internet system goes down.

This twitter post sounds like a good explanation.

IBM wanted to keep money so didn't ask for DDOS protection, their firewall system wasn't actually setup and IBM's logs said the data WAS being hacked. In full panic mode they SHUT DOWN EVERYTHING.

# ? Aug 11, 2016 11:42

kirbysuperstar: Nov 11, 2012; Let the fools who stand before us be destroyed by the power you and I possess.

e: I don't think people are afraid because of McCormack specifically but lmao

# ? Aug 11, 2016 12:17

Brown Paper Bag: Nov 3, 2012

kirbysuperstar posted:

e: I don't think people are afraid because of McCormack specifically but lmao

Brian Greig was the Australian Democrats senator for WA in the late 90s - early 2000s. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Greig

# ? Aug 11, 2016 12:44

Redcordial: Nov 7, 2009; TRUMP TRUMP TRUMP

lol the country is fed up with your safe spaces and trigger warnings you useless special snowflakes, send the sjws to mexico

gently caress IBM. I'm also so glad that I completely paid for, legally and definitely not pirated, SPSS so I can get stats work done at home rather than needing to be on campus.

# ? Aug 11, 2016 12:45

Aesculus: Mar 22, 2013

Brown Paper Bag posted:

Brian Greig was the Australian Democrats senator for WA in the late 90s - early 2000s. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Greig

the Senate, Greig was responsible for introducing three pieces of legislation: a bill to outlaw genocide in Australia...

However, all three were unsuccessful.

What the gently caress :negative:

# ? Aug 11, 2016 12:54

aejix: Sep 18, 2007; It's about finding that next group of core players we can win with in the next 6, 8, 10 years. Let's face it, it's hard for 20-, 21-, 22-year-olds to lead an NHL team. Look at the playoffs.

That quote is from fucking 2018. Fuck you Jim; Pillbug

Cartoon posted:

This one? http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-08-11/clarke-and-dawe:-mixed-results-and-scott%27s-help/7720900

Absolutely magnificent

# ? Aug 11, 2016 12:55

Endman: May 18, 2010; That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even anime may die

Aesculus posted:

the Senate, Greig was responsible for introducing three pieces of legislation: a bill to outlaw genocide in Australia...

However, all three were unsuccessful.

What the gently caress

Ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

# ? Aug 11, 2016 12:56