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RBC posted:Yeah okay buddy, go citing one poll at one period of time and act like you're the word of god. Rob Ford was massively popular. Approval ratings do not capture his influence and popularity in the He wasn't that popular in Toronto, but he was pretty popular in the post-amalgamation Toronto.
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Aug 11, 2016 20:39
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PT6A posted:And I should care because...?
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Aug 11, 2016 20:40
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RBC posted:Yeah okay buddy, go citing one poll at one period of time and act like you're the word of god. Rob Ford was massively popular. Approval ratings do not capture his influence and popularity in the city and the GTA as a whole. You can psychoanalyze me all you want. I don't give a poo poo. You're wrong. Fwiw I think Rob Ford would have won a 2nd term. Tory only beat his uncharasmatic brother by 7 points but I remember it was polling much closer to 3-4% in the days leading up.
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Aug 11, 2016 20:40
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PT6A posted:EDIT: "It's not right to criticize addicts because they have diminished agency due to their addictions... unless they did something really bad or had privilege at one point, in which case gently caress them!"
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Aug 11, 2016 20:40
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https://youtu.be/WjdTi1r-yRQ Here is the video.
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Aug 11, 2016 20:44
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Helsing posted:Do people from other provinces also get this weird, frothing-at-the-mouth anger over Toronto existing? Are you....new here? (or, less snarkily, yes, there are absolutely Prairie types who hate Toronto even despite never having lived there or seen it, much like the reverse is also true!)
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Aug 11, 2016 20:44
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jm20 posted:He wasn't that popular in Toronto, but he was pretty popular in the post-amalgamation Toronto. Out of curiosity, WHY was he popular? Everyone sane thought (correctly) that he was god awful outside of his koolaid drinkers. PK loving SUBBAN posted:Oh man I bet tetsul's pissed he lost his Trump gangtag Understandable why you did it. I'd get crabby too if someone interrupted my fapping. Homeroom Fingering fucked around with this message at 20:48 on Aug 11, 2016 |
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Aug 11, 2016 20:46
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RBC posted:Yeah okay buddy, go citing one poll at one period of time and act like you're the word of god. Rob Ford was massively popular. Approval ratings do not capture his influence and popularity in the city and the GTA as a whole. You can psychoanalyze me all you want. I don't give a poo poo. You're wrong. Forum was, if anything, the most generous pollster to Rob Ford. Other pollsters tended to be worse for him. But whoever you consult his approval rating tended to hover from the high 30s to the low 40s, which is arguably not bad for a violent and juvenile crackhead but which is extremely low for a Canadian mayor by any standard. If we imagine some neutral third party observer is reading our conversation then exactly what evidence do you show that person to make them believe that I'm wrong and you're right? What are you even arguing? What's your measure for Ford's popularity and influence and what's your standard for it being "high" vs "low"? EvilJoven posted:I used to live like 5 minutes from a subway stop in the middle of Toronto and loving hated every minute of it. That's why I hate Toronto and I moved all the way to Winnipeg because I wanted to ensure that I was far enough away that I wouldn't end up being sucked in to the Greater Greater Greater Toronto Area. So why do you talk about Toronto like you're a jilted ex-lover? Smaller towns and cities aren't really my thing but I don't feel some kind of burning resentment over people who prefer living there.
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Aug 11, 2016 20:45
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RBC posted:Yeah okay buddy, go citing one poll at one period of time and act like you're the word of god. Rob Ford was massively popular. Approval ratings do not capture his influence and popularity in the city and the GTA as a whole. You can psychoanalyze me all you want. I don't give a poo poo. You're wrong. Helsing posted:If we imagine some neutral third party observer is reading our conversation then exactly what evidence do you show that person to make them believe that I'm wrong and you're right? What are you even arguing? What's your measure for Ford's popularity and influence and what's your standard for it being "high" vs "low"? Yeah, um, this. There are plenty of non-Torontonians in this thread (myself for example), and the "who are you going to believe, me or your skewed polls?" line kinda makes no sense. From what I can tell Ford was massively influential mainly because the people who liked him were, through sheer loudness and stridency, a lot more influential than their mere numbers would suggest, and they voted. But what kind of objective evidence could you even decide his popularity in the city on, if not opinion polls? He certainly wasn't popular on council (which was Helsing's initial contention and the main reason his term in office was a clusterfuck even before the crack video was A Thing.) Dallan Invictus fucked around with this message at 20:56 on Aug 11, 2016 |
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Aug 11, 2016 20:51
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tetsul posted:Out of curiosity, WHY was he popular? Everyone sane thought (correctly) that he was god awful outside of his koolaid drinkers. Something like three or four out of ten people liked Rob Ford in a country where the average mayor has an approval rating that's closer to seven or eight out of ten people. For instance, in 2000 Mel Lastman was re-elected mayor with 79.96% of the vote. In 2003 there was a relatively close race between Miller and Tory, with Miller winning 43% to John Tory's 38%. But three years later in 2006 Miller won his re-election with 56.97% of the vote. This idea that Rob Ford was super popular doesn't stand up to scrutiny. He evoked extreme loyalty for a couple reasons but having a really dedicated core of supporters constituting maybe 25%-30% of the electorate doesn't mean you are "popular", it mostly speaks to how divided the electorate is. A lot of it just comes down to a general sense of abandonment in the lower income 'inner suburbs' that surround the downtown core. Ford was known to have extremely good "customer service" for people within his ward: he returned every phone call and was great at showing up and getting your pot hole fixed. Doing that reliably for more than a decade built up a great word-of-mouth reputation as someone who was really dedicated to his constituents. He also did a lot of symbolic stuff like paying for his own office supplies and calling out a lot of low-level wasteful spending, which was symbolically significant to his constituents. And in general he advocated for the perceived interests of people who felt neglected from the city, exploiting a cultural divide between the people on council and the masses of people living in areas like Scarborough. Basically, Ford's appeal seemed to come from the same deep source of inchoate anger and frustration that has seemingly powered the Brexit vote or the Trump campaign. We've reached a point where politicians and journalists are so hated and mistrusted that when they attack a politician that politician becomes more popular among certain resentful parts of the population, and Ford capitalized on that. He also happened to be peddling economic ideas that were very much in-step with the last 40 years. Ford's constant refrain about the need to cut taxes and bring unions in line fit neatly into a worldview that the entire media, from the Toronto Star to the Toronto Sun, has been buying into and encouraging since at least the 1980s. So in many ways the ideological heavy lifting had already been done for Ford long before he got into office. The public is super angry and divided into different tribal groups. Those widening divisions and the resentments they generate are probably what gave Ford most of his support. When Ford came under attack his supporters solved the cognitive dissonance this created by deciding Ford was being targeted unfairly. This behaviour isn't that unusual is societies that don't have a long civil society tradition of contested elections and working democracy. This kind of patron-client relationship in which the patron can do no wrong and gets reflexive automatic support from their base is very typical in most of the world. It looks unusual in Canada because we labour under the illusion that we're still a functional democracy.
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Aug 11, 2016 20:59
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tetsul posted:
It wasn't me I wouldn't waste money on that.
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Aug 11, 2016 21:00
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tetsul posted:Out of curiosity, WHY was he popular? Everyone sane thought (correctly) that he was god awful outside of his koolaid drinkers. Rob Ford returned phone calls. He played the political ground game better than anyone since Bill Clinton. There was nothing special behind his success beyond that he met as many people as he could, collected their contact information, and built a base.
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Aug 11, 2016 21:03
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PK loving SUBBAN posted:It wasn't me I wouldn't waste money on that. Eh, gives me incentive to untie the piano from my rear end and finally make the one I want.
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Aug 11, 2016 21:05
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Maybe the fact that the last job I had in Toronto was full of unironic Rob Ford supporters is one of the big reasons why feel the need to nail the door shut behind me and set the place on fire after managing to get out.
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Aug 11, 2016 21:12
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Anyone have the link to this wank material that apparently is all the rage. I originally thought I didn't care, but tetsel has me convinced. I suppose I am obligated to make his kids watch it with me too huh? Seems a bit awkward, but if I gotta... peter banana posted:IDK, if it means agricultural workers who come here and pick our food, (because its genuinely a job Canadians won't do for any feasible pay) can become permanent residents, it's not as bad as you might think it is. LOL. This will continue to be used to import Tim Hortons employees and drive down wages in the tech sector.
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Aug 11, 2016 21:17
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ocrumsprug posted:Anyone have the link to this wank material that apparently is all the rage. I originally thought I didn't care, but tetsel has me convinced. OSI bean dip posted:https://youtu.be/WjdTi1r-yRQ
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Aug 11, 2016 21:18
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ocrumsprug posted:LOL. This will continue to be used to import Tim Hortons employees and drive down wages in the tech sector. Fast moving hi-tech Canadian business leaders need the best and brightest picking blueberries for pennies on the dollar
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Aug 11, 2016 21:19
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OSI bean dip posted:https://youtu.be/WjdTi1r-yRQ  
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Aug 11, 2016 21:22
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Wow that comments section really is ignorance on display. Does nobody understand that the video was evidence and released as part of a court proceeding?  e: I'm dying laughing at all the people blaming the CBC for releasing it. Just dying. Reince Penis fucked around with this message at 21:26 on Aug 11, 2016 |
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Aug 11, 2016 21:24
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THC posted:Fast moving hi-tech Canadian business leaders need the best and brightest picking blueberries for pennies on the dollar Well I cannot comment on the who is picking what in the valley, but my partner does have some shockingly low paid foreign tech workers that she manages. (How shockingly low? Lets just say, don't give up on that Starbucks career too soon imo.)
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Aug 11, 2016 21:25
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PK loving SUBBAN posted:the police intelligence itself stating that Rob's actions were consistent with a mid-level drug trafficking operative Wait, what?
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Aug 11, 2016 21:33
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I dunno you guys, I read this discussion about the ethics of releasing a video after death and I watched the video and my only takeaway was
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Aug 11, 2016 21:35
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vyelkin posted:I dunno you guys, I read this discussion about the ethics of releasing a video after death and I watched the video and my only takeaway was The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion: You have a constitutional right to be a dumbass > CanPol Megathread: (inaudible) fat dick That said, is this the hill you want to die on, Tetsul? Defending this garbage mayor? Lain Iwakura fucked around with this message at 21:44 on Aug 11, 2016 |
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Aug 11, 2016 21:39
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OSI bean dip posted:CanPol Megathread: (inaudible) fat dick
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Aug 11, 2016 21:48
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Legit Businessman fucked around with this message at 19:39 on Sep 9, 2022 |
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Aug 11, 2016 21:49
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OSI bean dip posted:CanPol Megathread: (inaudible) fat dick Yes.
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Aug 11, 2016 21:51
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Frosted Flake posted:Wait, what? It's in the fall 2013 ITO. I'm not going to go back and look for it now, but I remember it's in the parts about him meeting Lisi at Esso. Rob would leave his car and go in the Esso bathroom, then Lisi would exit another car with a computer bag or shopping bad or envelope and place it in Ford's car. Then Lisi would leave alone and Rob would come back out and drive away. One of the cops calls it consistent with mid level trafficking in the notes. e: When we talk about police corruption, these exchanges are enough to warrant being pulled over and maybe even searched. But that never ever happened for some reason. Reince Penis fucked around with this message at 21:54 on Aug 11, 2016 |
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Aug 11, 2016 21:51
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PK loving SUBBAN posted:It's in the fall 2013 ITO. I'm not going to go back and look for it now, but I remember it's in the parts about him meeting Lisi at Esso.  But you see, talking about Rob Ford now is horrible because he died of cancer. I have to complain otherwise it's an echo chamber. Still find it loving amazing that he did coke, weighed umpteen hundred pounds, and never went the way of Chris Farley.
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Aug 11, 2016 21:56
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OSI bean dip posted:CanPol Megathread: (inaudible) fat dick
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Aug 11, 2016 21:55
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OSI bean dip posted:
Pfft you're getting it wrong. I'm clearly only concerned about this because I disagreed with him politically. Clearly.
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Aug 11, 2016 21:57
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PK loving SUBBAN posted:e: When we talk about police corruption, these exchanges are enough to warrant being pulled over and maybe even searched. But that never ever happened for some reason. Juul-Whip fucked around with this message at 22:02 on Aug 11, 2016 |
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Aug 11, 2016 21:59
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PK loving SUBBAN posted:It's in the fall 2013 ITO. I'm not going to go back and look for it now, but I remember it's in the parts about him meeting Lisi at Esso. Is this it? http://news.nationalpost.com/toronto/rob-ford-project-brazen-ito-the-full-document Holy smoke... On a more positive note, world's most positive headline. 
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Aug 11, 2016 22:01
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OSI bean dip posted:That said, is this the hill you want to die on, Tetsul? Defending this garbage mayor? Which comment did I defend the Fords? The one I called the family garbage or the one I referred to him as incompetent and misguided?
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Aug 11, 2016 22:02
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That wiretap was really well done.
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Aug 11, 2016 22:05
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I got poo poo on for being insensitive about addicts when I was complaining that some of them steal and do other unsavoury things. Personally, I'm just concerned about the hypocrisy. Also, I'm guessing most kids have a parent that at least did some drugs at some point, because most people try drugs at some point in their life, and most of them will find out about it. It's not like this video has ruined his family's lives or anything. Smoking crack isn't his principal failing, it's the poo poo he did to cover it up, and to a lesser extent, the rest of his political career.
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Aug 11, 2016 22:05
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Talking poo poo about Ford on the day he died was kinda gross and unnecessary, and I'm pretty sure when you got all mad about it on that day you were right tetsul. We're well past that though. He wasn't just a bad mayor, he was an embarrassment on a national level and an indictment on the state of municipal politics. There's no reason to hold back talking about that crack smoking fuckup other than that he's not worth anyone's time or attention anymore.
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Aug 11, 2016 22:09
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PT6A posted:I got poo poo on for being insensitive about addicts when I was complaining that some of them steal and do other unsavoury things. Personally, I'm just concerned about the hypocrisy. The thing that always goes over people's heads is that there is no reason to honour the dead just because they are. Rob Ford was a horrible individual in real life and yet people made attempts to revere him after his passing for no explicable reason other than out of the fear that showing otherwise would make you look cold-hearted. Doug Ford doesn't want this video out there not because of how it will ruin what people knew about his brother (because we already knew he did coke), but because it furthers the narrative that he and his brother have been engaged in some level of drug activity for decades. Doug used to sell weed in the 1980s: quote:In the 1980s, anyone wanting to buy hashish had to know where to go. And in central Etobicoke, the wealthy Toronto suburb where Mayor Rob Ford grew up, one of those places was James Gardens. In the evening, the sports cars often wound along Edenbridge Drive, past the gated homes and the lawn-bowling pitches, until they reached the U-shaped parking lot. By nightfall, the public park was a hash drive-thru. One former street dealer, whom we will call “Justin,” described the scene as “an assembly line.” Doug has a problem with the police: quote:Toronto's top cop, Bill Blair, has followed through on his threat to take legal action against the city councillor over accusations Ford made earlier this month. Ford suggested the chief helped leak information that police were set to subpoena the mayor as political "payback." Doug Ford is only upset because his brother's open habit is making his semi-closed past more obvious. Releasing this video is important in controlling the narrative that the Ford family are a problem and not letting Doug have a say in that.
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Aug 11, 2016 22:17
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He lived a piece of poo poo, he died a piece of poo poo, that video is nothing but the average poo poo talking that happens when people are sitting around passing a crack pipe around and brings nothing new to the table.
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Aug 11, 2016 22:17
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THC posted:My friend ate a 24h suspension and a $290 impound fee recently because even though he was dead sober, well rested, and easily passed their numerous sobriety tests, and a thorough search of his vehicle turned up nothing, the cop claimed he thought my friend was intoxicated "on K or M or something". Cops are loving bastards. I think this is called "hire good representation, get the charges laughed out of court, and have the Crown pay your costs."
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Aug 11, 2016 22:19
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Jordan7hm posted:Talking poo poo about Ford on the day he died was kinda gross and unnecessary, and I'm pretty sure when you got all mad about it on that day you were right tetsul. We're well past that though. He wasn't just a bad mayor, he was an embarrassment on a national level and an indictment on the state of municipal politics. There's no reason to hold back talking about that crack smoking fuckup other than that he's not worth anyone's time or attention anymore. Sigh, again, it isn't people are talking bad about him. Hell I said he cancelled the bike lanes because his fat rear end would blow an artery if he so much as sat on a bike. Go ahead and point out how terrible he was in every way. My criticism is about how loving giddy are about the video release. If he was still alive and running for office, gently caress yeah get a tv installed on top of your car and show it on continuous loop around Toronto and dance in the street. He's dead though. He isn't going to run anything. Let it go. Just go "ha, yeah gently caress him" and talk about how bad he was, not link it on Twitter with "OH MY GOD OH MY GOD OH MY GOD" like a kid on Christmas morning.
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Aug 11, 2016 22:21
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