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Lt Jon Kavanaugh posted:The four children would be Nameless King, Gwynevere, Gwyndolin and Yorshka. I completely forgot about Yorshka (I never ranked up the darkmoon covenant.)
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Aug 12, 2016 23:40
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she's not gwyn's kid and I don't think anything implies otherwise?
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Aug 12, 2016 23:44
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Manatee Cannon posted:she's not gwyn's kid and I don't think anything implies otherwise? She literally calls Gwyn her father and Gwynevere and Gwyndolin her sister and brother. Her resemblance to Priscilla creates some complications, but it's not like souls lore has ever been anywhere near direct. Garrand fucked around with this message at 23:49 on Aug 12, 2016 |
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Aug 12, 2016 23:46
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It's whatever you wanna make it, **man**~~~
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Aug 13, 2016 02:33
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mango sentinel posted:Yeah people just refuse to give up on the Solaire thing. I just straight-up don't believe that Solaire being Gwyn's son is not the intent of the original Dark Souls. DS1 is a tightly interlocked self-contained story that obviously didn't consciously leave plot threads hanging for a sequel, it has plenty of hints at Solaire being Gwyn's firstborn, and there are no other characters mentioned in the game who could plausibly fill the empty space. I don't buy that it would introduce the concept of a demigod's missing son and then just leave that question completely unaddressed within the text. Nameless King is a cool bossfight, but whether or not he's a retcon, he subtracts from the original game lore rather than adding to it. If he's a retcon, well, that sucks and steamrolls a great and subtle piece of story from the first game. If he's legitimately Miyazaki's original conception of Gwyn's firstborn and the Solaire stuff was all a big mislead, that still sucks because now Solaire has been reduced to just being some rando, for the sole purpose of introducing an optional boss character who has no characterisation and no relation to anything else that happens in any of the games. NK may be 'canon' now, but the DS3 canon sucks.
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Aug 13, 2016 05:09
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Faux Mulder posted:I just straight-up don't believe that Solaire being Gwyn's son is not the intent of the original Dark Souls. DS1 is a tightly interlocked self-contained story that obviously didn't consciously leave plot threads hanging for a sequel, it has plenty of hints at Solaire being Gwyn's firstborn, and there are no other characters mentioned in the game who could plausibly fill the empty space. I don't buy that it would introduce the concept of a demigod's missing son and then just leave that question completely unaddressed within the text. Sunbro was created to be Sunbro. Look at all the sun praising. He introduces you to the entire co-op mechanic.
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Aug 13, 2016 05:17
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Faux Mulder posted:I just straight-up don't believe that Solaire being Gwyn's son is not the intent of the original Dark Souls. DS1 is a tightly interlocked self-contained story that obviously didn't consciously leave plot threads hanging for a sequel, it has plenty of hints at Solaire being Gwyn's firstborn, and there are no other characters mentioned in the game who could plausibly fill the empty space. I don't buy that it would introduce the concept of a demigod's missing son and then just leave that question completely unaddressed within the text. Yeah, no. The entire point of Solaire's character is that he's just a regular guy who's really strong cause he doesn't skip leg day. Andre was originally intended to be the firstborn and have a greater role in the story but that development was cut and so that role remained empty until From decided to use it to let us fight Super Duper Ornstein.
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Aug 13, 2016 05:29
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Solaire is just some guy that eventually goes crazy? That's such a loose end and not at all similar to almost every NPC's fate in Dark Souls 1!
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Aug 13, 2016 05:35
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what are the clues that solaire is gwyn's son besides, him being a man who wears a t-shirt with the sun on it
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Aug 13, 2016 05:41
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GulagDolls posted:what are the clues that solaire is gwyn's son besides, him being a man who wears a t-shirt with the sun on it It's because sun and son sound the same
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Aug 13, 2016 05:45
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i'm convinced
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Aug 13, 2016 05:46
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I think it's just that many people assumed that since he was mentioned he must be represented in the game somewhere. If you assume that, Solaire seems like a good candidate. But in DS3 it just turns out that initial premise was wrong. In no way is that a retcon. People just concluded something that the game wasn't actually implying.
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Aug 13, 2016 05:48
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New Concept Hole posted:Solaire is just some guy that eventually goes crazy? That's such a loose end and not at all similar to almost every NPC's fate in Dark Souls 1! You forget that solaire is also a meme, which is justification enough for fans to go insane coming up with theories about him. It's also enough for dark souls 3 to believably include references to him that make no sense, since it has a precedent for doing that with anything that fans liked in dark souls 1
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Aug 13, 2016 06:47
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You almost certainly only really think that Solaire was the firstborn because everyone else said Solaire is the firstborn and it happens to be a possibility that slots in okay. The only character in Dark Souls 1 who was intended to be the firstborn was Andre and that was abandoned pretty early in development. He just straight-up doesn't exist in Dark Souls 1 outside of his destroyed statue, and hey, that destroyed statue is holding a spear very similar to Ornstein's. Nameless King was definitely put in Dark Souls 3 just to be a cool optional bossfight that they also used to quell an old argument, but saying that it makes 1 worse is kind of projecting.
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Aug 13, 2016 07:07
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Digirat posted:You forget that solaire is also a meme, which is justification enough for fans to go insane coming up with theories about him. It's also enough for dark souls 3 to believably include references to him that make no sense, since it has a precedent for doing that with anything that fans liked in dark souls 1
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Aug 13, 2016 07:12
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Actually, I am Gwyn's firstborn. And also Spartacus.
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Aug 13, 2016 07:17
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Faux Mulder posted:I don't buy that it would introduce the concept of a demigod's missing son and then just leave that question completely unaddressed within the text. Why not? There are tons of details that are hinted vaguely at but never really answered, especially regarding the pantheon.
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Aug 13, 2016 07:32
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Garrand posted:She literally calls Gwyn her father and Gwynevere and Gwyndolin her sister and brother. Her resemblance to Priscilla creates some complications, but it's not like souls lore has ever been anywhere near direct. she says it formally, like religious titles. . . Father Gwyn, Sister Gwynevere, etc. shes his kid in a "we are all gods childreb" way but people are fuckijg idiot and think he hosed seath to make her or w/e
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Aug 13, 2016 10:11
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I personally reckon Gwyn only actually has 2 children. The Firstborn and Gwynevere. Gwyndolin, Priscilla and maybe Yorshka are all full siblings but only half-siblings with Gwynevere and the Firstborn. My theory is that Velka is Gwyn's wife, she has 2 children with him and then has a son with Seath for reasons. Gwyndolin looks enough like Velka that she can claim he's just unfortunately mutated, but the snake legs and pale skin are both things that match up with Seath and Draconic heritage, as is sorcery. Priscilla cannot be passed off as Gwyn's child at all because she's really obviously part dragon in a way that Gwyndolin wasn't, so that's why Gwyn's wife is never really brought up but Velka is. Gwyn's wife was struck from the records just as the Firstborn was almost entirely, but Velka was a goddess in her own right and stuck around instead of leaving like the Firstborn so people still remember who she actually is. Yorshka is either Priscilla through time bullshit, another child of Seathe and Velka who Gwyndolin says is the child of Gwyn because he himself doesn't know about the Seath stuff. Or she's Gwyndolin's daughter by Priscilla, regardless of how Gwyndolin and Priscilla came about. Velka being the wife of Gwyn also neatly explains why Gwyndolin's covenant punishes sinners. He's picking up part of her duties as a deity.
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Aug 13, 2016 10:46
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why do people still act as if these games are some amazing deep tapestries of lore when they're just a bunch of cool stuff held together by a few overarching themes (and there's nothing wrong with that) like, i get discussing the story/characters/themes/endings/etc, it's interesting, but there are holes and inconsistencies and stuff that's there just because the devs felt like it solaire was just a nice weirdo who liked the sun a lot RottenK fucked around with this message at 12:33 on Aug 13, 2016 |
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Aug 13, 2016 12:31
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RottenK posted:solaire was just a nice weirdo who liked the sun a lot That's wildly understating it but whatever. Just remember, while the lore isn't as ridiculously complex as some people think, it's not non-existant either and context does have an impact - in a world where the primary god is revered as the literal embodyment of the sun and fire, and actually exists, "liking the sun a lot" (and referring to it as your father) isn't just liking the sun a lot. Plus Solaire is a badass - he links the fire in his world - despite having poo poo gear.
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Aug 13, 2016 17:18
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I AM THE MOON posted:she says it formally, like religious titles. . . Father Gwyn, Sister Gwynevere, etc. I reckon she's a Gwyndolin illusion and kinda his ideal self
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Aug 13, 2016 19:38
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New Concept Hole posted:Solaire is just some guy that eventually goes crazy? That's such a loose end and not at all similar to almost every NPC's fate in Dark Souls 1! You can actually save Solaire if you do the Spider Lady covenant and kill the bug that makes him go crazy. If you do, you can summon him for the final boss fight with Gwyn. I think Miyazaki said in an interview that he likes to believe that if you do summon him he goes on to link the fire in his own world (which is honestly the most  ending out of all the characters in that game).The big reason everyone thought he was the Firstborn I think was because some of his dialogue could've been interpreted as to refer to being a former god (along with the fact you can summon him for the Gwyn fight), and since there was no one else who fit the bill they just assumed it was Solaire. And then of course since he's a meme, everyone wants to keep believing in it despite FROM's attempts to tell people he's not really.
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Aug 13, 2016 20:33
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Solaire isn't the firstborn but he does show up in DS3 as the worm in smouldering lake
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Aug 13, 2016 20:59
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I always save Solaire in DS1 because he owns. He is well worth 30 humanity and his gear isn't good to kill him.
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Aug 13, 2016 21:29
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Guillermus posted:I always save Solaire in DS1 because he owns. He is well worth 30 humanity and his gear isn't good to kill him.  I AM THE MOON posted:she says it formally, like religious titles. . . Father Gwyn, Sister Gwynevere, etc. It's a bit of both actually, it's quite confusing: Wiki posted:Upon reaching covenant Rank 2 Finished up Irithyll and Profaned Capital last night. The Capital felt really empty, and the Dungeon really glitchy - I knocked a few jailers into the level geometry and they got stuck, and those wretches just seem to completely ignore the existence of walls. Got to Yhorm and I still had to look something up - the Storm Ruler was really annoying to use and I couldn't figure out the button combo. And in the heat of battle I was trying to do the Storm Ruler combo with a different sword  And Siegward got smashed in two hits, so... 
MysticalMachineGun fucked around with this message at 23:21 on Aug 13, 2016 |
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Aug 13, 2016 23:16
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Guillermus posted:I always save Solaire in DS1 because he owns. He is well worth 30 humanity and his gear isn't good to kill him. If you're doing a longsword build his sword is just like the longsword, only better.
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Aug 13, 2016 23:51
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DatonKallandor posted:- in a world where the primary god is revered as the literal embodyment of the sun and fire, and actually exists, "liking the sun a lot" (and referring to it as your father) isn't just liking the sun a lot. I thought that was a really cool glimpse into what people in that world believe and how they think about the world around them. I never bought it as a hint at a hidden plot point.
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Aug 14, 2016 01:49
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Turncoat Mommy posted:Solaire isn't the firstborn but he does show up in DS3 as the worm in smouldering lake God-Emperor of Dark Souls. If you thought the franchise was weird before, 
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Aug 14, 2016 06:37
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MysticalMachineGun posted:
That's weird, Siegward drat near solo'd him when I summoned him.
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Aug 14, 2016 06:39
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Your Gay Uncle posted:That's weird, Siegward drat near solo'd him when I summoned him. Siegward seems to vary dramatically from one playthrough to the next. I've seen him die immediately, I've seen him facetank Yhorm. It's weird.
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Aug 14, 2016 06:42
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RyokoTK posted:Siegward seems to vary dramatically from one playthrough to the next. I've seen him die immediately, I've seen him facetank Yhorm. It's weird. I've had multiple playthroughs where he's dead by the time I've picked up and equipped Storm Ruler.
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Aug 14, 2016 06:52
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It's the same as any other NCP, if they managed to get stunlocked they're doomed. It's also why the mimic can either slaughter that flame demon or get obliterated. I have some playthroughs where the mimic keeps ineffectually trying to grab the demon and meets the business end of the axe twice in a row and is toast. Other times he fucks him up with those flying kicks (and the skeletons help a bit too).
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Aug 14, 2016 10:12
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Paracelsus posted:I've had multiple playthroughs where he's dead by the time I've picked up and equipped Storm Ruler. Same, but the first time when I had no idea about the Storm Ruler I tanked the boss while Siegward wrecked him. It's weird.
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Aug 14, 2016 11:50
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I really enjoy 3 and can't bring myself to play through 2. Am I broken?
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Aug 15, 2016 06:19
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Haha! The executioner's greatsword is totally a shout out to the Book of New Sun, right?
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Aug 15, 2016 06:26
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PostEldar posted:Haha! The executioner's greatsword is totally a shout out to the Book of New Sun, right? Nope. It's an Executioner's Sword
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Aug 15, 2016 06:37
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Dancer is such a good fight
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Aug 15, 2016 07:10
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Guillermus posted:I always save Solaire in DS1 because he owns. He is well worth 30 humanity and his gear isn't good to kill him. Same. Isn't it odd that the only way to save a human from a bug is to feed humanity to a human/bug hybrid? 
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Aug 15, 2016 07:49
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Fuligin posted:Dancer is such a good fight Agreed, the atmosphere and design of that fight is top tier.
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