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https://twitter.com/Uchikoshi_Eng/status/763340410081062913 Trolling indeed.
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Aug 10, 2016 14:49
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If you read the rest of his responses, he basically says the "Another Story" section of VLR wasn't supposed to be canon but the English localization decisions made it look it was. I'm not really sure about his reasoning, but it being non-canon basically makes sense with how they dropped all those loose ends from there.
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Aug 10, 2016 15:10
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Ventana posted:If you read the rest of his responses, he basically says the "Another Story" section of VLR wasn't supposed to be canon but the English localization decisions made it look it was. I'm not really sure about his reasoning, but it being non-canon basically makes sense with how they dropped all those loose ends from there. Not plot holes! Don't count! 
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Aug 10, 2016 15:17
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see yall in 2028
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Aug 10, 2016 15:23
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I mean Delta is more or less representative of the main character anyway so I don't really mind
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Aug 10, 2016 15:48
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GulagDolls posted:see yall in 2028
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Aug 10, 2016 16:46
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So Akane told Clover and Alice she'd have a way to send them back in time, but it was non-canon, so she actually just let them get stranded in the future forever? I can believe that.
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Aug 10, 2016 21:05
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Hobgoblin2099 posted:So Akane told Clover and Alice she'd have a way to send them back in time, but it was non-canon, so she actually just let them get stranded in the future forever? Given that the only explanation for how they'd get back was "Schrodinger's Cat", my original guess was that Akane never thought of the entire timeline branch that leads to VLR as the "real" timeline and her plan was just to arrange things so that they never had to be sent to the future in the first place, back at a time when it was still undetermined whether they'd go or not. The whole "all timelines are equally real" thing that ZTD goes with kinda throws that out the window, though.
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Aug 11, 2016 05:23
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akane is going to put them in the transporter then shoot them in the head
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Aug 11, 2016 05:25
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Thuryl posted:Given that the only explanation for how they'd get back was "Schrodinger's Cat", my original guess was that Akane never thought of the entire timeline branch that leads to VLR as the "real" timeline and her plan was just to arrange things so that they never had to be sent to the future in the first place, back at a time when it was still undetermined whether they'd go or not. The whole "all timelines are equally real" thing that ZTD goes with kinda throws that out the window, though. Not really. All timelines exist but it's pretty clear Akane considers there to be one true timeline that others, at best, serve to bring about.
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Aug 11, 2016 07:08
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Is this the future Uchikoshi envisioned?
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Aug 12, 2016 23:34
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Life is simply unfair.
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Aug 12, 2016 23:36
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My wildlife preservation efforts are....complex.
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Aug 13, 2016 20:13
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I completed the game in 29 hours and then caught up with this 41 page thread! Like some people in the thread I also like the Transporter Room puzzle. It's a very bold puzzle that requires creative thinking to solve. I think I managed to guess that HumanMoonMoon was twelve early on and that helped me a lot. My reasoning went along the following lines. There are seven symbols involving some combination of Human and Moon. Neither can be 1 because that would lead to redundancy with HumanHuman, MoonMoon and so on. Also neither can be 4 or more because HH = 16 or MM = 16. So one of them is 2 and the other is 3. HMM is either 18 or 12. Plainly it has to be 12. So M = 2 and H = 3. So that gives you seven answers. Figuring out that Star and StarMoon are 5 and 10 isn't so hard. The rest can be done by playing with the card battler. I also strongly agree with the comments on the Schrödinger Cat achievement. I was assuming that when the helmet came off this time it would be completely different to what happened the first time and I was disappointed when that never happened. I suspected that the second time he would be Pinoccioed into a real boy.
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Aug 14, 2016 21:48
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Yeah if you break each number down to its prime factors you get a tonne of information.
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Aug 14, 2016 22:14
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Prurient Squid posted:Like some people in the thread I also like the Transporter Room puzzle. I liked it too - once the book pointed out the multiplication thing I thought "oh this is prime factorization" and just blitzed everything out (0, 1, and given the range of numbers 7 and 11 can only appear alone and once each, 5 should appear alone and with 2, 8 is 2 three times, etc.) I think the thing that gets people is that the pentagon card battle board doesn't accomplish very much but you're never "done" with it, i.e. you can always use it even if you're already done with everything it can help you with, AweStriker fucked around with this message at 22:33 on Aug 14, 2016 |
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Aug 14, 2016 22:31
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I like that if you just input the answer straightaway, Sigma is all  Think there's a couple of puzzles where that can happen.
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Aug 14, 2016 23:01
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I'm actually playing that bit right now. When Sigma comes out of the Input pods he comments on how his Grandmother didn't understand that the fax machine doesn't actually teleport paper and the fact they remain unsent is an "Esoteric conundrum". Then in the timeline where they come out of the Output pods he knows they've went back in time by checking his watch.
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Aug 15, 2016 00:22
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Vengarr posted:I like that if you just input the answer straightaway, Sigma is all This happens literally every time there is a hint for the answer and you don't look at the hint before solving it. Usually the characters go "The answer just came to me!", which I think is trying to imply that you used walkthroughs, you cheater.
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Aug 15, 2016 00:52
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Prurient Squid posted:I'm actually playing that bit right now. When Sigma comes out of the Input pods he comments on how his Grandmother didn't understand that the fax machine doesn't actually teleport paper and the fact they remain unsent is an "Esoteric conundrum". Then in the timeline where they come out of the Output pods he knows they've went back in time by checking his watch. Why does his watch instantly auto-adjust to the current time, anyway? I found that really strange.
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Aug 15, 2016 00:52
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Does anyone remember the name of any famous paradox or thought experiment that relates to when Sean copied himself? I'm sure I heard of one once that was similar, but now I can't remember. It was something a bit different from the generic teleportation paradox and continuation of self. Something to do with the morality involved with choosing to copy yourself, or choosing to create an existence that you know will be happy. Or maybe it was the other way around, choosing to create an existence that's guaranteed to be unhappy. Zero really is a sadistic rear end in a top hat, though. If he liked the original Sean so much he wanted to "see the world through his eyes" and make that replica of him, and realize his dream of living on in a simulation, why did Zero tell Sean to push the button or die? If he wanted to check and make sure it was still what Sean really wanted before he started the simulation, that would make sense. But how is it a genuine choice if it's push or die? Or if, no matter how many times Sean says gently caress it, I won't push the button, it doesn't matter if he gets deleted cause the quantum computer's still running in a bunch of other timelines and at least one of them is running the happy simulation Sean?
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Aug 15, 2016 01:01
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Admiral H. Curtiss posted:Why does his watch instantly auto-adjust to the current time, anyway? I found that really strange. The watch must have a wireless link to the quantum computer so that it can change what's injected (e.g. in the decontamination rooms), so presumably it gets the time over that link too.
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Aug 15, 2016 01:03
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Admiral H. Curtiss posted:Why does his watch instantly auto-adjust to the current time, anyway? I found that really strange. Because he's gone back in time. Duh.
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Aug 15, 2016 03:37
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So I read an article where Uchikoshi goes in depth about Kyle/? and his explanation is that it was never meant to be canon. He apparently regrets one, voicing it, and two, making it the "lowest" thing on the timeline. It's up to you if that's an rear end pull born of script rewrites or not, though.
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Aug 15, 2016 05:23
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There are a hundred timelines where Carlos was the worst firefighter who instictively took the most dangerous paths. Reading this thread makes it really clear how good Uchikoshi is at undermining himself. He obviously wants to make a big deal out of identifying the player with Zero seeing things from his point of view and manipulating his victims to see what happens and then sets up multi-timeline puzzles and misdirection that only make sense if the player is some kind of pandimensional being. He sets up a scenario in which the characters are forced into intractable dilemmas in which each choice play out differently, then he has the characters cry fowl when they make choices they didn't "intend" to make. He sets up a villain who's fascinated by human choices and then overrides them all with MIND HACKING. He spends a game investing two particular charcters with SHIFT powers and then ties their stories together with a Transporter that has nothing to do with SHIFT that takes up all their stories. It's just funny how good he is at averting his own themes.
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Aug 15, 2016 15:17
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The MIND HACKING aspect makes a bit more sense if timelines have to actually occur to exist, for example without MIND HACKING, there's no way a timeline where Diana pressed the showertime button could exist because she'd never be able to do it. The way I understood it is part of Delta's fascination isn't just human choices in general, but the ramifications of them making the blatantly wrong decision due to an outside force. It also makes the whole series work a little easier since it means the golden timeline doesn't actually exist until it's created. Right now the only timelines that exist involve a cult leader Chaos Dunking the entire planet, or Radical Delta vibrating through humanity.
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Aug 15, 2016 15:35
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But I think that helps the point I'm trying to make. It's presented as a dilemma. There's a case for pushing the button that Sigma passionately makes about everyone getting melted in three mintues and having a group hug at the bottom of the drain (I love this bit so much). But in the end she chooses to push the button for reasons that have nothing to do with the dilemma that Uchikoshi set up. Aversion successful.
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Aug 15, 2016 15:47
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voltcatfish posted:So I read an article where Uchikoshi goes in depth about Kyle/? and his explanation is that it was never meant to be canon. He apparently regrets one, voicing it, and two, making it the "lowest" thing on the timeline. i think it's a concession to script rewrites and not having enough time but the epilogue was always kinda weird and unnecessary tbh so i don't mind it being explicitly uncanon
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Aug 15, 2016 17:14
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What if the player was Delta in all 3 games, Delta was alive for them...
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Aug 15, 2016 17:31
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RJWaters2 posted:What if the player was Delta in all 3 games, Delta was alive for them... He was just off screen the whole time.
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Aug 15, 2016 17:38
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RJWaters2 posted:Delta was alive for them... Except for ZTD where sometimes he's dead.
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Aug 15, 2016 17:56
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AweStriker posted:I think the thing that gets people is that the pentagon card battle board doesn't accomplish very much but you're never "done" with it, i.e. you can always use it even if you're already done with everything it can help you with, Yeah, until I found other bits I kept going back there to try to input a code or something.
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Aug 15, 2016 18:47
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Prurient Squid posted:But I think that helps the point I'm trying to make. It's presented as a dilemma. A real...  Zero Time Dilemma.
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Aug 15, 2016 18:48
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I had some trouble with the Transporter Room (which was the first room I did) because for some reason I didn't take the multiplication signs at face value and assumed they were standing in for some unknown function that I had to figure out through trial and error with the machine. Which I eventually figured out was multiplication. Go figure.
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Aug 15, 2016 19:31
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I finally remembered my loving question from three weeks ago. I posted it in the no spoilers thread, deleted it, and forgot what it was when I came over and found this thread. In the timeline where diane presses the button to kill those people, and then refuses to escape, she was obviously mind hacked, so why did delta pre-record himself taunting his poor old mother that she's a murderess after he's dead. It's just rude. He knows he made her do it and that she doesn't know why she did it. Why call her a faker w/r/t multiple personalities.
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Aug 15, 2016 19:59
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Delta's motives are very complex
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Aug 15, 2016 20:03
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Delta is an rear end in a top hat. This answers a lot.
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Aug 15, 2016 20:10
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Krinkle posted:I finally remembered my loving question from three weeks ago. I posted it in the no spoilers thread, deleted it, and forgot what it was when I came over and found this thread. I really prefer to think he never mind hacked her and this was all her doing.
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Aug 15, 2016 20:19
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My favorite A&E show is Delta Klim: Mindfreak
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Aug 15, 2016 20:29
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Krinkle posted:I finally remembered my loving question from three weeks ago. I posted it in the no spoilers thread, deleted it, and forgot what it was when I came over and found this thread. I like to think she wasn't mindhacked because she always seem a bit crazy. Or maybe Delta is just really bored.
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Aug 15, 2016 23:04
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