|
Seaquest had those dumb dolphin tubes all over the sub.
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2016 06:47
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 10, 2024 04:45 |
|
|
Rhyno posted:Seaquest had dumb all over.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2016 06:57
|
|
|
Nessus posted:It was a reference to "Gunbuster," where they had gene-tailored psi-dolphin navigators because anime is real. I think the tech manual says they're like warp field/navigation consultants and researchers and there's like ten of them, so it's not like it was a million of 'em Dolphins in space ships are actually a somewhat uncommon trope in sci fi, but it exists aside from Gunbuster. It's because of the whole "their the smartest animals ever" thing, I think, so everyone takes that to me we can just put a helmet on them to raise their IQ a bit or give them telepathy and boom, uplifted.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2016 07:00
|
|
|
I'm not sure the cetacean ops thing was even something from the producers or writers, that might have strictly been an invention of the art department. I know Rick Sternbach was big on the idea, and he also worked in a bunch of anime references all over the place; there's Dirty Pair references in a bunch of the filler text shown on computer displays, and Nanmo the robot even got used as a model for not one but two props on the show (The Egg, from Evolution, and the Exocomps):  
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2016 07:06
|
|
|
tl;dr anime is real in star trek
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2016 07:08
|
|
|
Baka-nin posted:I think you can still see the cetacean deck on some of the Enterprise blueprints. And in Yesterday's Enterprise Picard wants a report from them just before he goes into battle with the Klingons. It's not Picard, it's just a background intercom announcement. That said, there's also an episode (Perfect Mate?) where Geordi deflects someone's attention by asking them if they've "seen the dolphins".
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2016 07:09
|
|
|
Well both fan communities have about the same reputation so its kinda fitting.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2016 07:10
|
|
|
Baka-nin posted:Well both fan communities have about the same reputation so its kinda fitting. You got that right.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2016 07:13
|
|
|
Nessus posted:I think the tech manual says they're like warp field/navigation consultants and researchers and there's like ten of them, so it's not like it was a million of 'em Now, do they get shore leave like the rest of the crew?
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2016 09:15
|
|
|
WickedHate posted:Dolphins in space ships are actually a somewhat uncommon trope in sci fi, but it exists aside from Gunbuster. It's because of the whole "their the smartest animals ever" thing, I think, so everyone takes that to me we can just put a helmet on them to raise their IQ a bit or give them telepathy and boom, uplifted. Nobody ever wants to uplift Elephants. They're just as smart, and have just as much of a right to have space adventures. 
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2016 09:23
|
|
|
Rhyno posted:Seaquest had those dumb dolphin tubes all over the sub. To be fair, it made slightly more sense on seaQuest. Not much, but slightly. Angry Salami posted:Nobody ever wants to uplift Elephants. They're just as smart, and have just as much of a right to have space adventures. Hey, we were gonna uplift Elephants, Gorillas, Dogs and Lions after Chims and Fins, but the Galactics made us stop.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2016 09:25
|
|
|
Angry Salami posted:Nobody ever wants to uplift Elephants. They're just as smart, and have just as much of a right to have space adventures. It might upset the Elcor. Or worse, it might arouse the Elcor.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2016 09:29
|
|
|
The_Doctor posted:Now, do they get shore leave like the rest of the crew? Nah, they get offshore leave.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2016 09:29
|
|
|
MikeJF posted:To be fair, it made slightly more sense on seaQuest.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2016 09:31
|
|
|
oh jesus, Geordi's boning the ship, isn't he 
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2016 09:35
|
|
|
Big Mean Jerk posted:All of the music in Enterprise sucks, even the incidental stuff. That includes the dumb generic stuff they used for In A Mirror, Darkly. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tgp5uQrLDO8
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2016 09:43
|
|
|
It's like a late 90's Command & Conquer FMV intro.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2016 09:48
|
|
|
Gonz posted:It's like a late 90's Command & Conquer FMV intro. Toplowtech fucked around with this message at 09:57 on Aug 17, 2016 |
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2016 09:51
|
|
|
WickedHate posted:It might upset the Elcor. Or worse, it might arouse the Elcor. Seductively: Do you come here often?  EDIT: The Elcor would be great in Star Trek, a truly alien looking species and concept.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2016 10:22
|
|
|
http://i.imgur.com/U3O1a3C.gifv
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2016 10:31
|
|
|
/r/gifsthatendtoosoon
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2016 11:00
|
|
|
Re-watching "Chain of Command" from TNG from the first time in a very long time... In retrospect and distance, is it me or are Jellico's requests not unreasonable? Sure he has douchey moments, but drat Riker and Geordi come off as whiney and very un-Starfleet.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2016 12:12
|
|
|
CaveGrinch posted:In retrospect and distance, is it me or are Jellico's requests not unreasonable?
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2016 12:22
|
|
|
HORATIO HORNBLOWER posted:Who cares about the technology? Not the writers that's for sure. The implications of it all were problematic as hell dating back to The Cage. No reboot or prequel or alternate universe can change the fact that technology in Trek is always exactly as magical as the plot (and the production constraints) requires it to be, no more and no less. The original continuity deserves to be continued because DS9 left it in such a fascinating place. The Romulans and the Federation allied with each other for the first time in their centuries-long history. What happens with that? Does the detente with the Dominion hold? Does Bajor join the Federation? What does the Klingon empire look like under Martok's rule? Will the Cardassians rebuild? What does post-occupation Betazed look like? Will those that lived through the war spend the rest of their lives looking for changelings behind every tree? How does Ferengi society adapt? There are zillions of interesting stories to tell in this universe and there's no inherit reason to let the technobabble get in the way of doing it. There just isn't the will. I agree. I'd love this very much. However, there is not only a forgetfulness amongst fans (not that it couldn't be explained very easy to the newcomer) - but again, original Trek is in the minds of the masses.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2016 12:26
|
|
|
Toplowtech posted:He insisted that Deanna Troi wear a standard uniform (A STANDARD UNIFORM!) and that his presence be announced whenever he entered. Clearly the devil by 80s standard. But yeah, they end up rebelling over his four shifts rotation. And as we all know, the TNG uniform on Troi made her look even hotter. (And I'm very gay for the record) But for most everything else, it's basically just DO. YOUR. loving. JOB. Stop pretending like this is a goddamn cruise ship... Moreover, maybe leave the non-essential families off at the last Federation planet... And maybe that's one of TNG's biggest failings. The Federation flagship shouldn't have children on board. That's patently ridiculous.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2016 12:33
|
|
|
Starfleet, or at least TNG's Starfleet, has always been mildly military. Gene was adamant that they were explorers first and there wasn't any enlisted because class division or something like that. Jellico is basically a real navy guy harshing the buzz of the laid back Enterprise cruise, who's most militant trait is that most of them wear uniforms. The Galaxy was made in peace time and had more than enough weapons and shields to roll over the stray bandit. Combine that with the cruise ship aesthetic and it's kind of a nice idea after decades of the space navy thinking being what Star Trek was all about. In theory, at least, "more space adventures and mysteries, less pew pew war" is interesting.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2016 12:37
|
|
|
Jellico was an awful commander, even from a military point of view, because he came in and decided to turn the entire ship's shifts upside down on the day before battle and blatantly disregard and disrespect the advice of existing ship's senior officers and particularly chief engineer out of hand without even considering what they had to say or offering reasoning as to why they had to be overruled, but Geordi and Riker are so whiny about it that you just end up focusing on how terrible they are instead.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2016 12:40
|
|
|
I can get behind that.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2016 12:42
|
|
|
WickedHate posted:Starfleet, or at least TNG's Starfleet, has always been mildly military. Gene was adamant that they were explorers first and there wasn't any enlisted because class division or something like that. Jellico is basically a real navy guy harshing the buzz of the laid back Enterprise cruise, who's most militant trait is that most of them wear uniforms. Well we all know Gene was basically a loon. Wonderful for the original idea, but the greatest stuff was never because of him. But considering how many times the Enterprise was overpowered or in danger even in the Gene years... Sorry, no, families should never have been included
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2016 12:46
|
|
|
Families were from back when the idea of the Enterprise-D was more GSV-like and the plans were that battles or hazardous missions would always be handled by the stardrive. It had changed even by the first episode enough that they should've dropped them, but eh. I could still see the justification for spouses, at least, and civilian scientists, but children, no.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2016 12:49
|
|
|
Yeah - at the very least if you were an adult and knew what you were signing up for, absolutely.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2016 12:50
|
|
|
MikeJF posted:Jellico was an awful commander, even from a military point of view, because he came in and decided to turn the entire ship's shifts upside down on the day before battle and blatantly disregard and disrespect the advice of existing ship's senior officers and particularly chief engineer out of hand without even considering what they had to say or offering reasoning as to why they had to be overruled, but Geordi and Riker are so whiny about it that you just end up focusing on how terrible they are instead. Kinda. Jellico isn't an rear end in a top hat so much as he is really incompetent. The man had to resort to threatening to murder hundreds to actually achieve his goal because if he'd been negotiating like he allegedly was assigned to, he would've started a goddamn war.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2016 13:20
|
|
|
CaveGrinch posted:I agree. I'd love this very much. However, there is not only a forgetfulness amongst fans (not that it couldn't be explained very easy to the newcomer) - but again, original Trek is in the minds of the masses. I really don't know about this. TOS has a longer legacy and old-timers who never watched more than a smattering of syndication episodes or whatever certainly still associate the words "Star Trek" with Kirk and Spock, but TNG aired for seven seasons, got good ratings, and is still shown on cable almost daily. It was a genuine cultural phenomenon twenty years ago that made Patrick Stewart a household name, spawned three more spin-offs, and started an entire industry of crappy novelizations and video game tie ins. All those 80s and 90s kids who grew up thinking of that as Star Trek have now aged into the prime demographic and I think that untapped well of nostalgia is ripe for mining. If the later Berman era hadn't burned through so much goodwill fifteen years ago, we'd probably have already gotten a proper TNG sequel/reboot series. For movies, using the TOS crew made a ton of sense because, First Contact aside, the TNG crew never prospered on the big screen and modern effects-heavy blockbusters have to, by necessity, appeal to the widest possible audience. JJTrek could pretty well count on bringing in preexisting Trek fans (to the extent that they didn't seem to care too much about putting us off), but in order to be the sort of mega-hit the studio was hoping for, it had to also bring people whose last experience with Trek was watching Wrath of Khan or The One With the Whales thirty years ago or who never watched Trek at all but still knew "beam me up Scotty!" and the like. Especially when you consider the growing importance of the foreign market in Hollywood, it wouldn't surprise me to learn that huge portion of the people who saw those films had only the vaguest idea of what Star Trek was about. Unfortunately, now that there has been a(nother) string of major motion pictures set in that era and the prospects of a new Trek series are still very much up in the air, it's not surprising that the producers of DSC would try to harness that new energy and that new audience to ensure the success of their show. Does that mean that the Berman-era continuity is dead or we'll never get a TNG/DS9/VOY sequel series? I actually don't think so. One thing that was very interesting to me was the announcement that DSC will be set in the "Prime" timeline. Now, some may say that it doesn't really matter which timeline a TOS prequel is set in and this just be a sop for fans who want the original show to remain the "real" version, but to me it says that Fuller thinks the old continuity still matters and has rejected the idea of a reboot. As a DS9/VOY alum himself, he probably respects the work done in that era enough to want to keep it in continuity. There was also that rumor of an "anthology' show, which seems way less reliable now given that the show isn't set post TUC as was suggested, but could still be possible. I could easily see this new TV Trek team using the first season of this new show to get TOS grognards, Berman-era burnouts, and JJTrek newcomers used to the idea of Trek being on TV again and then using a sequel season/series to start filling out gaps in the timeline or moving forward again. For all we know, there could be some master plan in the offing to make multiple simultaneous Trek spinoffs again like they had back in the late 90s or like Netflix and CW are doing with shared-universe superhero shows now. Of course, any of that will be contingent on this first season not getting crib death from a lovely CBS streaming service. Regardless of what happens with this series though, TNG nostalgia is real and there's a lot of money in it, so we'll likely see some sort of revival within a decade or so. I just hope it's better than Nemesis.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2016 13:29
|
|
|
quote:Kinda. Jellico isn't an rear end in a top hat so much as he is really incompetent. The man had to resort to threatening to murder hundreds to actually achieve his goal because if he'd been negotiating like he allegedly was assigned to, he would've started a goddamn war. It's another flashpoint where Gene's utopian thinking clashed with what humans actually do and the dramatic limitations of depicting a society supposedly without conflict even on the interpersonal level. The Enterprise was conceived of as an exploration vessel that had armaments to defend itself but eschewed warfare. Never the less you inevitably get stories where the Enterprise is being used as a warship, but still everyone on the ship can pretty much do whatever because this is a utopia, not a story about real things, you see. Basically, every time Gene vetoed a TNG script for depicting non-utopian stuff as he saw it, it was him being a lovely old fucker, because even early Star Trek is full of stuff that contradicts this supposed mandate. I'm not GLAD HE'S DEAD or anything, but his death immeasurably improved TNG, by which point he had almost no one to prevent him from his worst excesses as a person and a writer. Quite obviously, Gene would have never permitted a character like Jellico. Unless he felt like it that day.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2016 13:30
|
|
|
Duckbag posted:TNG nostalgia is real and there's a lot of money in it I find the bolded part difficult to believe. On a different topic, I've been watching through the highlights of Enterprise (Broken Bow, The Andorian Incident, Breaking the Ice, Fortunate Son and Cold Front so far) and I'm actually quite enjoying it, as much as I'm finding it difficult to remember the names of some of the less important members of the crew. Is Enterprise better than people let on or are these episodes just not representative of the rest of the series?
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2016 16:07
|
|
|
Angry Salami posted:Nobody ever wants to uplift Elephants. They're just as smart, and have just as much of a right to have space adventures. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Remembered_Earth
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2016 16:37
|
|
|
Just about finished with ENT S3 for the first time since airing. Looks like this season is where I stopped watching regularly as over half the episodes are new to me. One thing that sticks out is how much of an unmitigated dick Archer becomes, and it makes him more compelling than a lot of what's come before. He's making "bad" decisions under the justification of "WHATEVER IT TAKES TO SAVE EARTH", right up to stealing a warp coil and leaving a ship three years from home without nearly enough supplies to get there and... I like it. It's what Voyager SHOULD have been had the writers bigger balls to commit to the idea that under certain circumstances the vaunted Federation idealism falls apart and they're just like everyone else. Too much of Trek was wrapped up in the idea that the Federation was infallible with their ideals and would never compromise. Voyager would have been a lot better if we'd seen that idealism erode as the urge to get home deepened. Instead we got a hint of that with the USS Equinox but overall Voyager never really dipped into it and its a shame. Archer being a dick in pre-Federation times makes for one of the more enjoyable captains so far. Ogmius815 posted:The worst thing about ENT is the extent to which certain regular characters were underutilized. Particularly Mayweather. I guess no one wanted to write for him because they never did anything interesting with him at all. In fact this goes to a lesser extent for all the characters other than Trip, Archer, and T'Pol. Phlox gets about 10x as much characterization and plots as Mayweather and he's still a distant fourth after the main three characters. Three seasons in and the only thing I can think of Mayweather has done is "pilot good", minus the ONE episode where he goes back to his home hauler ship and has family conflicts. Reed at least gets a tiny bit of stuff fighting with the MACO group, but overall is almost a non character. Hoshi got like three episodes, most of which are summed up with "Hoshi is overwhelmed and cries a lot". One of her episodes kind of overshadows her character given it's a transporter psychosis episode which makes her almost the B character versus the transporter itself. Seriously, Porthos gets more screen time than Mayweather I think.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2016 17:10
|
|
|
I would prefer a post TNG\DS9\VOY show, but what would it be even like? What would the galaxy be like 100 years later? How crazy would we want to go with tech? Also, what premise would you have? We've gone exploring, had a show on a space station, and had a ship lost in space. And we saw all four quadrants. Do we go to other galaxies? Have space time cops? (I don't really want a show centering around time travel.) Maybe make a show about the Enterprise G or H or something. Take the idea of the Enterprise-D and take it to the next level. Put actual cities and forests in it. Make the ship itself artificially intelligent and make AIs commonplace (expand on Data-type androids and the EMH). HORATIO HORNBLOWER posted:The original continuity deserves to be continued because DS9 left it in such a fascinating place. The Romulans and the Federation allied with each other for the first time in their centuries-long history. What happens with that? Does the detente with the Dominion hold? Does Bajor join the Federation? What does the Klingon empire look like under Martok's rule? Will the Cardassians rebuild? What does post-occupation Betazed look like? Will those that lived through the war spend the rest of their lives looking for changelings behind every tree? How does Ferengi society adapt? There are zillions of interesting stories to tell in this universe and there's no inherit reason to let the technobabble get in the way of doing it. There just isn't the will. This. I really want to see how the universe changes post-DS9. There was some really interesting setup there. It would be cool to see the Ferengi, Bajorans, Klingons and maybe even Romulans and Cardassians join the Federation in the far flung future.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2016 17:16
|
|
|
Gaz-L posted:Kinda. Jellico isn't an rear end in a top hat so much as he is really incompetent. The man had to resort to threatening to murder hundreds to actually achieve his goal because if he'd been negotiating like he allegedly was assigned to, he would've started a goddamn war. (I really, really hate Data in command red in that episode. It just looks so wrong, and I'm almost certain his coat wasn't fitted to him anyway).
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2016 17:24
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 10, 2024 04:45 |
|
|
Trek shows have always been informed by world-political vibes from the point of view of Joe Q. WhiteBread-American. TOS has this tense Cold War in space with other major powers who are the ideological opposite of our heroes. In TNG our heroes have triumphed over the Soviets and for their next trick, take on the forces of unbridled capitalism and technoindustrial complex. In DS9 the Cold War victory seems increasingly irrelevant as the federation is forced to choose between selling its ideals short to combat a new form of hostile ideology, and succumbing to it. Voyager isn't about anything because it's a poo poo show, and Enterprise is about the same thing as DS9 but filtered through 9/11 beer goggles. I guess what I'm saying is that any post-TNG story would either be alarmingly dark or else Voyager levels of ungrounded in reality. DS9 is about as contemporary as Trek can get without entirely losing its faith in humanity. I'm not saying there wouldn't be some entertainment value in seeing a hyper cynical post Dominion astropolitics show where the Federation, Romulans, and Klingons are in the same sort of standoff as world powers today but uh, yeah I don't really want to see Star Trek take on the fact that the government has an utterly massive and unaccountable bureaucracy devoted to spying on its own citizens, not for any particular reason, just cause it can.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2016 17:28
|
|
