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MacheteZombie posted:He hurts them badly  "That's gotta hurt!"
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Aug 17, 2016 18:34
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MacheteZombie posted:He hurts them badly I'm sure the dude he immolates was hurt particularly badly
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Aug 17, 2016 18:34
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psVIG7YvdjM&t=181s Adam West noooo Thanks for finding that I didn't recall it at all. I need to watch that movie again!
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Aug 17, 2016 18:35
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Ok how about this question... why would it be OK for Batman to kill one group of people but not another group of people? Because those are the bad people? What would Batman have to do to make you think "hey this guys not being very heroic"? If you suddenly found yourself with martial arts skills, a zillion dollars and a batsuit, would you be capable of casually murdering somebody?
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Aug 17, 2016 18:36
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psVIG7YvdjM&t=181s  I love the Penguin counter going down when he comes up from the water but down again.
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Aug 17, 2016 18:37
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BTW the "point" of that scene is that Batman shoots the fuel tank but it wouldn't explode if KGBeast didn't fire the flamethrower. But he does. You can clearly see he tries to burn Martha and blows himself up. http://batman-news.com/2016/03/25/why-does-batman-kill-in-batman-v-superman/ I don't think Zacky did a very good job making that clear.
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Aug 17, 2016 18:38
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Vintersorg posted:Should the bad guys just fall down and do that thing from video games where they fade away? RBA Starblade posted:He strafes them with a gatling gun then machine guns the dude with the flamethrower (or hits the tank or something, I forgot how that guy dies exactly)! He's holding a dudes arm and the guy is the one holding the trigger, his buddies also drop to the floor and get missed by the bullets for the most part. The grenade guy is another "wont save you" deal where the guy pulls the pin so batman kicks a goon at him and the guy drops the grenade but then tries to grab it. The flame thrower guy, KGBeast chooses suicide. If he doesn't try to fry Martha his tank doesn't explode. The closest he comes is when he smacks that dudes head with a box, which i'll concede if you consider him dead. I put him in the "hospital visit for days" category.
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Aug 17, 2016 18:39
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RBA Starblade posted:Was anyone ever even accidentally killed by Adam West Batman? I don't think so but I've only really have memory of the movie at this point. Nah everybody is too busy swinging. Only accidental deaths are like, heroin ODs.
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Aug 17, 2016 18:40
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SolidSnakesBandana posted:Ok how about this question... why would it be OK for Batman to kill one group of people but not another group of people? Because those are the bad people? What would Batman have to do to make you think "hey this guys not being very heroic"? If you suddenly found yourself with martial arts skills, a zillion dollars and a batsuit, would you be capable of casually murdering somebody? Why is it ok for the government to punish one group of people and not another? Because those are bad people?
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Aug 17, 2016 18:40
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:I don't think Zacky did a very good job making that clear. About as good a job as the comic does.
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Aug 17, 2016 18:40
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MacheteZombie posted:He's holding a dudes arm and the guy is the one holding the trigger, his buddies also drop to the floor and get missed by the bullets for the most part. No, I mean he strafes them from the Batwing, blowing up the SUVs with dudes inside. That happened after WHO"S MARTHA right? Or was that from before Superman supertotals the Batmobile? I don't really remember what happened when now. quote:Nah everybody is too busy swinging. Only accidental deaths are like, heroin ODs. 
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Aug 17, 2016 18:42
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:Why is it ok for the government to punish one group of people and not another? Because those are bad people? I didn't use the word punish. But if you were to use the word kill, there are a lot of people that would argue that its not ok for the government to kill people.
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Aug 17, 2016 18:42
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MacheteZombie posted:About as good a job as the comic does. The thing about that scene in the comic is that it lies so you can take it either way and be fine with it. Both that "criminals are a cowardly and superstitious lot" and "Batman doesn't negotiate with criminals".
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Aug 17, 2016 18:43
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SolidSnakesBandana posted:I didn't use the word punish. But if you were to use the word kill, there are a lot of people that would argue that its not ok for the government to kill people. The government uses killing as a form of punishment.
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Aug 17, 2016 18:45
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SolidSnakesBandana posted:The supremely badass moment in Batman/Superman comics where Batman dons a sword and starts loving up Doomsday clones that aren't technically alive would make no sense if Batman was already lethal. That's the conceit in BvS, though. In dire circumstances of cosmic import Batman begins to bend or break his usual rules.
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Aug 17, 2016 18:47
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MacheteZombie posted:He's holding a dudes arm and the guy is the one holding the trigger, his buddies also drop to the floor and get missed by the bullets for the most part. This is the exact same kind of goofy equivocating people are (not wrongly) accusing the "Batman never kills!" people of.
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Aug 17, 2016 18:46
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SolidSnakesBandana posted:Ok how about this question... why would it be OK for Batman to kill one group of people but not another group of people? Because those are the bad people? What would Batman have to do to make you think "hey this guys not being very heroic"? If you suddenly found yourself with martial arts skills, a zillion dollars and a batsuit, would you be capable of casually murdering somebody? Killing is wrong because no one deserves to die. If Batman doesn't kill but endorses and supports an organization that kills people on the regular and maintains itself by monopolizing the threat of violence (i.e. the government) then he's still not heroic, he's just a hypocrite. If he kills people and endorses violence but not against the same targets as the state then he's a competitor (probably not heroic) and if he kills people but only people the government says are okay to kill then he's somewhere on the spectrum of policeman-soldier-assassin, and thus somewhere between "a necessary evil" and "a monster."
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Aug 17, 2016 18:47
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RBA Starblade posted:No, I mean he strafes them from the Batwing, blowing up the SUVs with dudes inside. That happened after WHO"S MARTHA right? Or was that from before Superman supertotals the Batmobile? I don't really remember what happened when now. Oh you're right on that one. I was remember Alfred being in control of the Batwing at the point, but's totally Bats there. I don't really have a comeback for that complaint other than, it was a dope scene and/or Bat's pulled another "wont save you" because those dudes could have stopped firing and gotten out of the way instead of dying for a paycheck involving a kidnapped old lady, but I'm pushing my luck there haha. HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:The thing about that scene in the comic is that it lies so you can take it either way and be fine with it. Both that "criminals are a cowardly and superstitious lot" and "Batman doesn't negotiate with criminals". I don't disagree, I just meant that the imagery is purposefully obfuscated.
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Aug 17, 2016 18:47
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MacheteZombie posted:I don't disagree, I just meant that the imagery is purposefully obfuscated. For sure, but after seeing the debate about it, it makes more sense.
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Aug 17, 2016 18:49
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SolidSnakesBandana posted:Also Bale's Batman is weird. It's fine on the very first viewing of whatever movie, but upon a second viewing you start to notice how garbage he is. For one, that voice sucks but oddly enough it didnt really bother me until someone pointed it out to me. Also it became impossible for me to take anything he says seriously once I noticed that he loving almost never closes his mouth. Poke some loving airholes in the nose, dumbass. I humbly disagree, but your avatar also reminds me how I defend Solid Snake's voice too, especially his gruffer stuff in MGS4 and Peace Walker. Bale's Batman voice is over-the-top and unusual, and I love that about it. David Hayter (I love him) is over-the-top and unusual, and I love that, etc. Not that you have to like both, the comparison just came to mind. I love the Bale take on Batman, it's definitely different. I remember when Batman Begins came out, how almost shocking it was to have growling Batman saying "SWEAR TO ME!", personally I think it's a good take. As for BvS, I enjoy it as a kind of nutty yarn about a psychotic Batman who wants to kill Superman. But I don't think it's a very good take on Batman. I do think Affleck's performance was quite good though. What I'm really worried about is the smooth talking Bruce Wayne we see in the Justice League teaser etc, he just feels like Affleck in Oceans 11 or something. Overall I'm not quite sure about where they're going wtih Batfleck. Heavy Metal fucked around with this message at 18:51 on Aug 17, 2016 |
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Aug 17, 2016 18:48
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It's a great take on Batman because it cuts through the bullshit. "Civil liberties are being trampled in your city." That's Batman's legacy.
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Aug 17, 2016 18:51
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I could take or leave a Batman Doesn't Kill rule. I kinda prefer the "no guns, guns are for pussies" Batman idea anyway.
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Aug 17, 2016 18:51
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i still really don't understand 'batman shouldn't kill' as a criticism of bvs because between alfred trying to tell bruce he's going too far, the martha moment and bruce's conclusion at the end of the film bvs doesn't necessarily disagree with you
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Aug 17, 2016 18:50
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Batman strafes those thugs because they are shooting at his Batwing. Batman pounds those warehouse thugs to jelly because they are trying to keep him from saving a life. If you watch Batman v Superman and pay careful attention, Batman never attacks someone who isn't attacking him first. Consider the scene where he attacks the Kryptonite transport convoy. His plan of attack is: tag the truck with a tracking device and then show up in the Batmobile and rev the engine. He doesn't take any other action until a group of thugs pull out their guns and start shooting at him.
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Aug 17, 2016 18:51
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Uncle Boogeyman posted:This is the exact same kind of goofy equivocating people are (not wrongly) accusing the "Batman never kills!" people of. We're on the same page.
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Aug 17, 2016 18:52
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:It's a great take on Batman because it cuts through the bullshit. "Civil liberties are being trampled in your city." That's Batman's legacy. Though this is the Batman who's kind of chummy and unmasked with Amanda Waller in Suicide Squad. Granted he says he'll get his buddies to shut down the program later on. I love Dark Knight Returns, I can dig Batman being a renegade who fights Superman and the establishment etc, but that's not quite what we get in BvS. He's an unhinged maniac who wants to kill an innocent man at the drop of a hat. And for the record, I can enjoy that story for what it is, it's just not a direction I personally would pick for Batman. But I'm also not loving the smooth wisecracking Bruce from the Justice League teaser, in general his characterization feels all over the place.
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Aug 17, 2016 18:53
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Heavy Metal posted:Though this is the Batman who's kind of chummy and unmasked with Amanda Waller in Suicide Squad. Granted he says he'll get his buddies to shut down the program later on. I love Dark Knight Returns, I can dig Batman being a renegade who fights Superman and the establishment etc, but that's not quite what we get in BvS. He's an unhinged maniac who wants to kill an innocent man at the drop of a hat. And for the record, I can enjoy that story for what it is, it's just not a direction I personally would pick for Batman. It's not at the drop of a hat though, it's have 20 years of becoming jaded and disillusioned and then experiencing Metrpolis 9/11 and placing the blame on an "Other".
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Aug 17, 2016 18:55
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The only thing with Bale is that he has a slight speech impediment, one that he's hidden very well over the years. But it shows up a few times in the Batman movies in places where it takes away from the intimidation factor of some of the lines.
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Aug 17, 2016 18:54
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Just to note, my point was just that Batman kills significantly more after his "redemption". It's a weird place to start the Justice League at.
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Aug 17, 2016 18:58
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MacheteZombie posted:It's not at the drop of a hat though, it's have 20 years of becoming jaded and disillusioned and then experiencing Metrpolis 9/11 and placing the blame on an "Other". The 20 years and the stuff that's gone down explains him being extra cranky and menacing, a'la Dark Knight Returns for sure. But wanting to kill Superman to me felt unearned and makes him appear to be a bit of a maniac. Not to say Batman can't be a bit of a maniac, just didn't quite gel for me.
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Aug 17, 2016 19:00
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RBA Starblade posted:Just to note, my point was just that Batman kills significantly more after his "redemption". It's a weird place to start the Justice League at. I think its realistic to expect that the "Martha" moment wasn't Batman completely overcoming his issues all at once, and there's really not much time for him to reflect between then and the end of the movie. Don't you think its possible this will be an ongoing arc for Batman that will continue throughout the Justice League/Batman series?
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Aug 17, 2016 19:03
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Uncle Boogeyman posted:This is the exact same kind of goofy equivocating people are (not wrongly) accusing the "Batman never kills!" people of. The point is not that it makes sense, but that it makes sense to "I'm not an executioner" Batman. Batman is dumb/crazy. On the other side, the point is also not that it makes sense, but that it makes sense to the government. Jim Gordon says all crimes are legal except "killing", so Batman remains good and smart. This all goes back to Robin, the child who serves as a subject supposed to believe. Robin believes in not-killing in the same way kids believe in Santa. Batman is simply performing for this child-gaze. When Robin is dead, you have two options: either Batman himself is a idiot manchild, or the entire universe becomes childish and the cops are like "ga ga goo goo, you're not allowed to shoot a gun ever."
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Aug 17, 2016 19:05
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Basebf555 posted:I think its realistic to expect that the "Martha" moment wasn't Batman completely overcoming his issues all at once, and there's really not much time for him to reflect between then and the end of the movie. Don't you think its possible this will be an ongoing arc for Batman that will continue throughout the Justice League/Batman series? Probably, but it doesn't make it less weird of a direction to go and start that at for me.
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Aug 17, 2016 19:08
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Heavy Metal posted:Though this is the Batman who's kind of chummy and unmasked with Amanda Waller in Suicide Squad. Granted he says he'll get his buddies to shut down the program later on. I love Dark Knight Returns, I can dig Batman being a renegade who fights Superman and the establishment etc, but that's not quite what we get in BvS. He's an unhinged maniac who wants to kill an innocent man at the drop of a hat. And for the record, I can enjoy that story for what it is, it's just not a direction I personally would pick for Batman. Batman in e: Realized that if you just watch BvS this is a little more ambiguous, edited to reflect that. But even in BvS Wayne Enterprises is still producing military hardware and so on. Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 19:12 on Aug 17, 2016 |
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Aug 17, 2016 19:10
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RBA Starblade posted:Was anyone ever even accidentally killed by Adam West Batman? I don't think so but I've only really have memory of the movie at this point. We'll all have a chance to get some new memories of Adam West Batman soon: http://www.ew.com/article/2016/08/17/batman-adam-west-burt-ward-julie-newmar-animated
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Aug 17, 2016 19:16
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Here's an example from one of the worst comics ever made: This Superman performs as if he's being watched by thousands of children, even in the bedroom. When he's talking to Lois in bed, he's talking to her as if she's a child. At the end of the comic, Superman performs his no-killing rule for dozens of magic cameras, literalizing the child-gaze. All humans become children.
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Aug 17, 2016 19:34
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Adam West Batman accidentally exploded a guy's atoms once because the guy had been reformed from dehydrated powder form using heavy water from the batcave nuclear faucet, but this was the penguin's fault(Penguin snuck the powder in and used the water) and there was no way for Batman to have known he would disintegrate from one punch.
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Aug 17, 2016 19:35
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Here's an example from one of the worst comics ever made: Maybe that's just the level the author can write at.
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Aug 17, 2016 19:36
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That new Adam West Batman animated thing could go very, very wrong if they don't treat the show with respect. The show was pretty drat intelligent and just making something that apes it will be horrible. Also it's very sad that those three are pretty much all that's left of the Adam West era. I would have loved to have Kitt and Newmar randomly switching places as Catwoman while no one bats an eye.
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Aug 17, 2016 19:38
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Basebf555 posted:The only thing with Bale is that he has a slight speech impediment, one that he's hidden very well over the years. But it shows up a few times in the Batman movies in places where it takes away from the intimidation factor of some of the lines. Can you give some examples?
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Aug 17, 2016 19:50
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