Spanish Blue division description as recorded in von Bock's diary, given by a subordinate:quote:‘The Spanish view grooming the horses as a bother, feeding them unnecessary. Belts and suspenders cut from new harnesses. Gas mask containers are often used as coffee pots. Dust and driving glasses are cut from the gas masks themselves. If a Spaniard has corns, he cuts appropriate holes in his shoes and boots to keep them from chafing. Rifles are often sold. New bicycles are thrown away as they find tyre repair too boring. The MG34 is often assembled with the help of a hammer. Parts left over during assembly are buried. They consider all women fair game. In Grodno there were orgies with Jewesses, who were also taken along in their vehicles.’ - Kluge refused to have them in his army - ‘are these soldiers or gypsies’. The spirit of the 17th century lives.
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Aug 17, 2016 19:55
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Disinterested posted:Spanish Blue division description as recorded in von Bock's diary, given by a subordinate: War. War never changes. Fangz posted:So, um, the square bullet version of the Puckle gun might actually work and be reasonably accurate! Huh. Cool.
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Aug 17, 2016 20:02
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Disinterested posted:The spirit of the 17th century lives.
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Aug 17, 2016 20:03
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HEY GAL posted:rather hang out with them than with nazis They were veterans and held up extremely well under fire. Everything else - not so much.
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Aug 17, 2016 20:36
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HEY GAL posted:But when they get to Prague, every request they make fails. There is no money for the troops, whether or not the Hungarians are heading toward Moravia. ... What exactly does this commission entail? Does he just tell everyone to go home? Is any money found to pay them for disbandment, or do they immediately start plundering everything they can find?
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Aug 17, 2016 20:49
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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PittTheElder posted:What exactly does this commission entail? Does he just tell everyone to go home? Is any money found to pay them for disbandment, or do they immediately start plundering everything they can find? anyway he probably enjoyed that part, i have no idea how they discovered that some rando who nearly died a whole bunch of times of literally everything while he was in prague would be good at that, but they did
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Aug 17, 2016 20:52
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Fangz posted:So, um, the square bullet version of the Puckle gun might actually work and be reasonably accurate! But was the Puckle gun even rifled?
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Aug 17, 2016 21:06
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chitoryu12 posted:I love the front fenders. The radio operator having to balance the hull MG34 on his head absolutely slays me.
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Aug 17, 2016 22:23
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SimonCat posted:The radio operator having to balance the hull MG34 on his head absolutely slays me. Watch his Maus review to see an actual tanker identify two issues that make the tank almost completely useless in like thirty seconds.
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Aug 17, 2016 22:36
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HEY GAL posted:ideally, you can't dismiss them without paying them, so in the best of all possible worlds he's the guy keeping the books for that. i don't know where they found the money to dismiss the dudes, or why they found the money to dismiss them and not to keep them from dying that winter I'm going to hazard a guess that it was because he was going to go back there anyways and they didn't want to deal with the problem themselves. Better to send him back with a new job than to round up someone else to go down there and do it.
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Aug 17, 2016 22:41
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Cyrano4747 posted:I'm going to hazard a guess that it was because he was going to go back there anyways and they didn't want to deal with the problem themselves. Better to send him back with a new job than to round up someone else to go down there and do it.
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Aug 17, 2016 22:43
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HEY GAL posted:this almost dead slightly-post-teen is the perfect choice Probably notably more disposable than your wife's third youngest brother who you finally broke in as a secretary.
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Aug 17, 2016 22:44
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Cyrano4747 posted:Probably notably more disposable than your wife's third youngest brother who you finally broke in as a secretary.
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Aug 17, 2016 22:53
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HEY GAL posted:this almost dead slightly-post-teen is the perfect choice Knowing early modern court politics, they were desperate because no one wanted to take the job (because in early modern politics YOU NEVER VOLUNTEER FOR ANYTHING because if you do it's on your own dime until the government can be arsed to pay you back, which may not actually be during your lifetime) and Wallenstein didn't say no in time.
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Aug 17, 2016 22:54
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ArchangeI posted:Knowing early modern court politics, they were desperate because no one wanted to take the job (because in early modern politics YOU NEVER VOLUNTEER FOR ANYTHING because if you do it's on your own dime until the government can be arsed to pay you back, which may not actually be during your lifetime) and Wallenstein didn't say no in time.
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Aug 17, 2016 23:32
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Delivery McGee posted:is actually a mostly-accurate telling of the death of USS Indy. Way late here but that's one of a couple of scenes that should have snagged Shaw an Oscar or something. Dude was robbed. In Harm's Way was an underway book I really got into about the Indianapolis. Another was Sailors To The End about the Forrestal fire. Neither is research-grade material, but both good approachable reads if you're interested in either story.
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Aug 17, 2016 23:57
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Disinterested posted:Spanish Blue division description as recorded in von Bock's diary, given by a subordinate: I feel like the Spanish and the Italians are the ones that really understood war, not the Germans, French or British. If we take Ernest Hemmingway's A Farewell to Arms as even a little close to accurate, then the Italian soldier was a genius of avoiding death and accumulating as much booze as possible to drink while in dereliction of duty. I feel like this is a much more sensible approach to combat than dying valiantly for one's country.
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Aug 18, 2016 01:09
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hogmartin posted:Way late here but that's one of a couple of scenes that should have snagged Shaw an Oscar or something. Shaw had a fair bit to do with writing that monologue as well. He didn't do the bulk of it, that was mostly Gottlieb and Sackler (who had the original idea for the scene) with a bit from Spielberg (supposedly also John Milius but he didn't really do anything other than look at it and hand it back), but after they all worked with it they gave it to Shaw, who was an accomplished playwright, to do a final revision. Also an accomplished alcoholic, he was drunk off his rear end the first time they tried to film the scene and produced garbage. Then he sobered up for another take.
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Aug 18, 2016 01:16
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Phanatic posted:Also an accomplished alcoholic... Endman posted:And just like that we're back to the 30 Years War.
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Aug 18, 2016 01:21
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The Jaws monologue is mostly true except for the idea that five or six hundred men were killed by sharks
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Aug 18, 2016 01:37
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i'm pretty sure a traumatised survivor might perfectly well just sort of assume that that's what happened
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Aug 18, 2016 01:54
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Endman posted:I feel like the Spanish and the Italians are the ones that really understood war, not the Germans, French or British. You should read Trin Tragula's ww1 blog and look for stuff referencing Emilio Lussu(you can find that stuff here), there's some serious  stuff at times.
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Aug 18, 2016 02:00
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V. Illych L. posted:i'm pretty sure a traumatised survivor might perfectly well just sort of assume that that's what happened Yes. But it's the same thing addressed multiple times in this thread by historians, about first person accounts. Definitely a lot of sailors were attacked, and now being wounded, were bitten even more. Some were hit by big sharks and killed outright. But the idea that it was a nonstop feeding frenzy where everyone who didn't get rescued was killed by sharks isn't right. It's perfectly in line with thoughts on sharks at the time Benchley wrote the novel, and Spielberg made the film though. And very likely almost all the ones who drowned or drank seawater or died of exposure/dehydration or from injuries related to the explosions/sinking or went insane and were killed by their shipmates were later eaten, or partially eaten.
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Aug 18, 2016 02:12
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Elyv posted:You should read Trin Tragula's ww1 blog and look for stuff referencing Emilio Lussu(you can find that stuff here), there's some serious Emilio Lussu posted:One night, after drinking without excessive moderation a number of Piedmontese wines, he rode his horse into the officers’ mess, where the colonel was eating. He didn’t utter a single word, but his horse, which seemed to have a perfect knowledge of military hierarchy, proceeded to whinny and prance around the colonel for the longest time. C'est magnifique, mais c'est ne pas la guerre!
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Aug 18, 2016 02:39
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Endman posted:C'est magnifique, mais c'est ne pas la guerre! I disagree with your earlier assessment that the French don't understand war.
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Aug 18, 2016 02:40
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Disinterested posted:Spanish Blue division description as recorded in von Bock's diary, given by a subordinate: Seriously, they don't take care of their horses? Like how do you assemble a division in 1940s Span without recruiting people that know taking care of animals is important.
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Aug 18, 2016 04:52
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Monocled Falcon posted:Seriously, they don't take care of their horses? Like how do you assemble a division in 1940s Span without recruiting people that know taking care of animals is important. This is just after the Spanish Civil War, so many of them may not have originally been in a position to need to tend horses, but were tossed into a scratch division and sent to the Germans as-is.
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Aug 18, 2016 06:01
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Did a little reading and while most Spanish Blue Division soldiers were experienced professionals, there's nothing to suggest most of them were capable of tending to animals. Given the slapdash nature of assembling a volunteer force like this, it could very well have been a case of too many cooks in the kitchen, or too many combat veterans in the logistics battalion, as it were.
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Aug 18, 2016 06:11
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Or this account is complete bollocks from a disgruntled German.
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Aug 18, 2016 06:13
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Grand Prize Winner posted:my grandma gave somewhere around 20 grand over the course of her life (no joke), thanks Monsignor Barry. We could have used that money for more good booze at her wake! Maybe she funded a kneecapping!
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Aug 18, 2016 06:50
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OfficialGBSCaliph posted:Maybe she funded a kneecapping! Drill bits are cheap.
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Aug 18, 2016 06:58
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Monocled Falcon posted:Seriously, they don't take care of their horses? Like how do you assemble a division in 1940s Span without recruiting people that know taking care of animals is important. I suspect these reports were exaggerated as they went up the chain of command.
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Aug 18, 2016 07:03
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Arquinsiel posted:Don't be silly. Well maybe she funded all the kneecappings.
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Aug 18, 2016 07:11
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Endman posted:Or this account is complete bollocks from a disgruntled German. The accounts of that division being undisciplined and a mess are universal from the German sources as presented, as is the verdict they were also good at fighting.
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Aug 18, 2016 07:12
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The French Legion of Volunteers meanwhile took a million years to turn up to the front and then exploded and was never allowed back.
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Aug 18, 2016 07:13
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Disinterested posted:The French Legion of Volunteers meanwhile took a million years to turn up to the front and then exploded and was never allowed back. Those competent fuckers are the party in government now 
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Aug 18, 2016 07:57
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Endman posted:Or this account is complete bollocks from a disgruntled German. I doubt it. The DA veterans were formerly various falange/carlist/fascist youth corps, and while they had combat experience, actual training could vary wildly.
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Aug 18, 2016 08:55
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Endman posted:C'est magnifique, mais c'est ne pas la guerre!
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Aug 18, 2016 11:47
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Disinterested posted:undisciplined and a mess ... also good at fighting.  seriously, the number of historians who study the 17th century who assume that drill off the battlefield leads to professionalism on it is depressingly high. then they're surprised when this happens, note the "despite" here:  once again, i blame Gustav Adolph and heck, let's just throw Maurice of Nassau in there too edit: weren't the french cavalry in the Napoleonic Wars notorious for not taking care of their horses, or is that me remembering reading Sharpe books as a child? edit 2: that quote is also interesting because "the Italian party" [of generals] is a delicate way of saying "dudes who were up to their necks in the Wallenstein Affair" HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 12:04 on Aug 18, 2016 |
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Aug 18, 2016 11:49
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Holy poo poo, i'm reading an account of the 1870 Battle of Sedan and von Moltke the Elder nearly fucks up the battle several times because he simply cannot believe that the French would be that stupid. At one point he hears about a French army moving from Paris towards Sedan, putting themselves in ideal position to be cut off from their supply line by the Prussians. He thinks this must be a ruse and issues no orders until the next day when he gets confirmation of the maneuver by reading about it in a French newspaper.
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Aug 18, 2016 11:56
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