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Jastiger posted:Tuxedo Catfish you need to come to the realization that the nerf was warranted, Genji was and still is OP and you just need to deal. son i'm still holding grudges about Anakaris being Z-tier in a game from 1994, I don't have to come to terms with poo poo well possibly i will have to come to terms with playing even more tracer and re-learning pharah but somehow i think i'll manage
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Aug 18, 2016 04:28
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Papercut posted:I played nothing but comp Zen for the last month and still recognize that these Genji changes are loving idiotic. Nerfing his ult a little would've been fine. Being able to dash through hazards meant to CC him was pretty stupid too.
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Aug 18, 2016 04:30
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:son i'm still holding grudges about Anakaris being Z-tier in a game from 1994, I don't have to come to terms with poo poo YOu should group with me so i can teach you some pro tier play style.
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Aug 18, 2016 04:31
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Jastiger posted:YOu should group with me so i can teach you some pro tier play style. countblanc runs nightly in-houses full of people who are actually better than me, why would i do that e: didn't you not know how genji's double-jump mechanics even worked until like an hour or two ago Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 04:37 on Aug 18, 2016 |
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Aug 18, 2016 04:34
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I am pretty sure they will revert his double jump nerf for live and keep the rest. Everything other than his db jump nerf is well deserved imo. Especially the bullshit dragonblade ult.
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Aug 18, 2016 04:45
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Actually just make his sword hitbox smaller than 400 sqft and I'd be happy
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Aug 18, 2016 04:50
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The Genji nerfs are good and I hope they continue nerfing him until he ceases to exist.
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Aug 18, 2016 04:59
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So they're nerfing Genji but not doing anything about this most overpowered ability, Swift Strike's ability to refresh on kills and assists? They should change so that the refresh only happens when Genji is ulting.
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Aug 18, 2016 05:12
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DELETE GENJI.
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Aug 18, 2016 05:14
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i didn't know you could do those things as genji and tbh i don't like having the quality of a champ be based on nonintuitive bugs as opposed to deliberate features. like okay i guess i was never going to be as good at him because i didn't learn the broken inputs from some reddit guide, that's cute. i mean yeah, skill ceilings and all that, but otoh using technical difficulty as the end all defense for things is kind of lame. why not have a dude that requires drawing perfect circles with a mouse every shot; very high skill ceiling there.
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Aug 18, 2016 05:24
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Antares posted:Actually just make his sword hitbox smaller than 400 sqft and I'd be happy
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Aug 18, 2016 05:24
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I still don't have a single summer skin on pc the situation grows dire my friends
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Aug 18, 2016 05:27
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also i looked up my info on overbuff and while the premise of the site is rather flawed (should be tracking stuff per minute as opposed to per round due to varied round length and the fact you can switch characters mid round(but then overwatch itself messes up there as well)), it upsets me to be sub 50% percentile in a lot of things, except death rates, and everything Roadhog related, because I'm apparently some kind of savant coward. my ten calibration rounds placed me at rank 57 on the back of that fat bastard. it is more upsetting since roadhog playing has put me against better players where my total inability to click mans is ruining me. 36% mccree win rate, 95th percentile mccree deaths. oi.
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Aug 18, 2016 05:39
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Someone said it in one of the threads that Overwatch isn't even remotely a casual FPS despite Blizzard pretending otherwise and it's absolutely goddamn true.
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Aug 18, 2016 05:55
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I'm not on PTR so I can't check, but does the new McCree ult change reduce his meter to 0%, but while alive and active refund 50% when canceled? Because that's how it should work, Deadeye is a mindgame zoning ult but it should still require some execution chops and reward people who do manage to kill McCree while he is channeling - was kind of bullshit that even the worst McCree ults were rewarded with still having 50% ult on death. Also not particularly happy about the loss of Genji's movement combos, if only because it is an absolute nerf on his effectiveness and skill ceiling. Being properly vulnerable to CC and the Dragonblade nerf are good and cool though. Really want to see some buffs for Junkrat, S:76, Symmetra, and Bastion. Sym and Bastion need reworks or additional abilities respectively though, Junkrat and Soldier just need minor adjustments because their kit is solid in concept.
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Aug 18, 2016 05:57
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keyframe posted:I am pretty sure they will revert his double jump nerf for live and keep the rest. Everything other than his db jump nerf is well deserved imo. Especially the bullshit dragonblade ult. I agree with this sentiment. If I can't quickscope with Widowmaker then I don't see why Genji should be able to animation cancel for burst damage either. The ultimate is just too drat stupid the way it is now. Double jump I can take or leave.
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Aug 18, 2016 05:58
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:countblanc runs nightly in-houses full of people who are actually better than me, why would i do that Because im even better! Maybe ill try to get down on that in house. Where do yall organize? Genji jumps more than once. Auto op
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Aug 18, 2016 06:01
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stop responding to jastiger
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Aug 18, 2016 06:04
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Manatee Cannon posted:I still don't have a single summer skin on pc None of them are anything special so you're not missing out.
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Aug 18, 2016 06:05
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Tiler Kiwi posted:i mean yeah, skill ceilings and all that, but otoh using technical difficulty as the end all defense for things is kind of lame. why not have a dude that requires drawing perfect circles with a mouse every shot; very high skill ceiling there. because that would be really weird and unlike any of the skills that an action game or shooter typically tests conversely animation canceling is basically just "you can interrupt one thing to do another thing and it just works." the technical stuff is a by-product of making a character who moves naturally and responsively also the technical stuff is good for raising skill ceilings and really fun once you understand it so there's that too Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 06:10 on Aug 18, 2016 |
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Aug 18, 2016 06:06
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more specifically, removing animation canceling almost invariably means giving the player less control over their character; forcing them to draw a circle is difficult/skillful, but it does the same thing, which on the balance probably outweighs "well it's challenging and that's a plus" (as an aside, did nobody play GunZ?) Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 06:11 on Aug 18, 2016 |
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Aug 18, 2016 06:06
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:did nobody ever play GunZ Yea, and it was bad.
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Aug 18, 2016 06:08
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PureRok posted:Yea, and it was bad. wrong well except for the RPG grinding but once you plateaud level-wise that stopped mattering
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Aug 18, 2016 06:09
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:more specifically, removing animation canceling almost invariably means giving the player less control over their character; forcing them to draw a circle is difficult/skillful, but it does the same thing, which on the balance probably outeighs "well it's challenging and that's a plus" gunz owned, k-styling owned.
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Aug 18, 2016 06:10
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I dont know any first person shooter that had abilities to reduce cooldowns or animations that was "working as intended" and not patched out or otherwise mitigated. Why should Genji grt that?
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Aug 18, 2016 06:11
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Jastiger posted:I dont know any first person shooter that had abilities to reduce cooldowns or animations that was "working as intended" and not patched out or otherwise mitigated. Why should Genji grt that? because "working as intended" is meaningless, and the only thing that matters is "is it good for the health of the game" see also mutalisk stacking, magic boxes, skiing, the concept of "combo" in fighting games, some of the better implementations of bunnyhopping, roll cancels, rocket jumping, etc.
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Aug 18, 2016 06:12
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Oh man Gunz was fast paced and fun but sadly stupidly balanced (as a dagger style user gently caress you butterfly k style folk). Shotgun switching was such utter bullshit. That game could have been really great.
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Aug 18, 2016 06:14
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:because "working as intended" is meaningless, and the only thing that matters is "is it good for the health of the game" Well yeah rocket jumping and bunny hopping were death with differently. Thry were implemented into games as a meta. But glitching an animation seems different than creative use of physics.
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Aug 18, 2016 06:15
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I wish they could come up with something for symmetra to make her viable more often for the entire match. She can create anything and she only creates 1 type of turret, and an entire city.
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Aug 18, 2016 06:17
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Jastiger posted:Well yeah rocket jumping and bunny hopping were death with differently. Thry were implemented into games as a meta. But glitching an animation seems different than creative use of physics. it's not really "glitching" though -- much less so than some of the things i mentioned like magic boxes for instance, which are still a really positive feature for Brood War to have it's just a consequence of being able to stop doing one thing and start doing another, which is something you generally want to design for unless there's an extremely compelling reason not to
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Aug 18, 2016 06:18
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i mean i was really indignant the first time somebody used those against me too, then i realized that a) i could do it myself and win more if i practiced and b) it turns competitive games, and especially new ones, into a process of discovery and gives them the potential to be deeper than their creators initially imagined
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Aug 18, 2016 06:23
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:it's not really "glitching" though -- much less so than some of the things i mentioned like magic boxes for instance, which are still a really positive feature for Brood War to have
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Aug 18, 2016 06:23
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SectumSempra posted:I wish they could come up with something for symmetra to make her viable more often for the entire match. Nice clipping Blizzard. But yeah it kind of sucks that Symmetra is only viable for a relatively short time frame and only in specific modes. There are lots of things they could do to change that but I doubt they'll do, well, any of them.
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Aug 18, 2016 06:25
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Jastiger posted:Magic boxes seem different than reload cancelling. Especially if it means doing more damage than intended. Well, the same principles of balance still apply. If someone's doing too much damage, nerf their damage. If the glitch has no upside (for instance if it's extremely easy to do and macro-able and throws damage values way out of whack) then, sure, patching it out is one way to accomplish that. But conversely look what trying to patch the macro out of Soldier's recoil bloom did to him.
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Aug 18, 2016 06:26
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Internet Kraken posted:Nice clipping Blizzard.  it's just a little bit u nerd (for some reason her dress c an't clip through her thighs but can clip through her calves) I'm fine with how her weapon works. I just wish she was more than "teleporter online" or the lasers with 1 hp that a ton of aoe weapons destroy. SectumSempra fucked around with this message at 06:32 on Aug 18, 2016 |
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Aug 18, 2016 06:29
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Eh i think it just took away a short cut. Hes the same guy. But think of it this way. If the dps any hero can do is restricted because too high is op and too low is not powerful enough, wouldnt anything that caused that dps to mega spike up be considered a glitch and not necessary clever?
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Aug 18, 2016 06:30
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Duck and Cover posted:Oh man Gunz was fast paced and fun but sadly stupidly balanced (as a dagger style user gently caress you butterfly k style folk). Shotgun switching was such utter bullshit. That game could have been really great. I liked sword traveling but I revolver/rocket switched - the former for the sake of novelty and the latter because I am complete scum.
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Aug 18, 2016 06:31
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:because that would be really weird and unlike any of the skills that an action game or shooter typically tests animation canceling is a byproduct of bad state code, not due to design elegance. not saying that makes it bad in that regard, but I've seen enough examples of it where it is anything except natural and responsive. i dont think making things unnecessarily unintuitive and difficult to get the most out of a character is a good direction to go in, design wise. I do not like that sort of technical stuff, I do not like games that rely on technical difficulty to balance against the strengths of characters, and I also view skill in FPS games as more about reflexes, coordination, game sense, and utilizing a toolkit in a smart manner, as opposed to reading guides to learn how to get an extra 30 damage out of things using animation bugs. i know that things like this can often lead to better game depth (i did play dota and stuff like pull/stacking and things do add more choice and such to the game), but conversly I do not agree that technical difficulty or increased complexity alone is worth keeping such a thing around for. things ought to be kept as simple as possible. I also do not like fighting games _at all_ so I think there are many things we do not share the same ideas of what "good" and "fun" are.
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Aug 18, 2016 06:32
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it's possible that the better solution would be to lower base damage and maintain the glitch than to remove the glitch, if the glitch requires skill to execute and makes (or in separable from something that makes) the character feel better to play the best thing to do is to forget everything about "glitches" and "intention" and just treat everything as a gameplay mechanic unless it literally crashes your computer, and then judge it from that perspective
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Aug 18, 2016 06:35
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It'd be cool if Symmetra turrets were only damaged by direct hits. Would probably help with the times where explosive projectile spam just blows up your turrets through walls somehow. Her ult problem could be solved by giving you a choice between building a teleporter or something else geared more towards last point defense.
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Aug 18, 2016 06:37
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