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El Chingon posted:Can't we all agree that the "izquierda latinoamerica" has failed miserably? Fundamentally it never existed. The pink tide is a mess of populist, anti-capitalists ideas that share more in terms of corruption than in terms of ideology. The "leftist" label mostly serves as a shield, a way to defend themselves from scrutiny using the equally imbecilic and worthless "radical" left of Europe and America as lackeys.
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Aug 17, 2016 21:39
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El Chingon posted:Can't we all agree that the "izquierda latinoamerica" has failed miserably? Not at all. Many nations in Latin America have made a lot of progress compared to their previous states.
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Aug 18, 2016 00:10
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ronya posted:* both Labour under Jam Man (and John IRON DISCIPLINE McDonnell) and Die Linke are shady atm (and does Die Linke qualify as a major party anyway? its vote share is in the ballpark of UK Lib Dems). Even Die Linke - never mind Corbae's Labour - have a rhetoric of radical economic transformation that is quite distant from the relatively tepid policies what do you mean by shady? that they're not Full Communist enough, or something else?
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Aug 18, 2016 00:40
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punk rebel ecks posted:Not at all. Many nations in Latin America have made a lot of progress compared to their previous states. Such as?
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Aug 18, 2016 00:55
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Polidoro posted:Such as? Well, there's a few million less people starving in absolute misery here.
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Aug 18, 2016 01:02
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Polidoro posted:Such as? Welfare expansions in Brazil under PT governments were massively successful. I don't know enough to say for sure but my impression is that the Brazilian left-wing government was the most successful by far
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Aug 18, 2016 01:04
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icantfindaname posted:Welfare expansions in Brazil under PT governments were massively successful. I don't know enough to say for sure but my impression is that the Brazilian left-wing government was the most successful by far Bolivia and Ecuador.
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Aug 18, 2016 01:12
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Despite all the corruption (which always existed, mind you, these Petrobrás things date from the 90s and it ain't even our first rodeo), I think Brazil made some big strides since the 00s. We could've done better, sure, and our "left" is barely on the side of social democracy, but Lula was very good at pleasing the invisible economy hand while pushing very needed welfare and education programs. Dilma was considerably worse, because she is by all accounts hard-headed as gently caress and didn't play ball with the PMDB oligarchy. She also made some very bad economical and political decisions in a time of recession, so... Like, even with the current hosed-up situation in the country, we still have a better buying power and better overall conditions than we did in the 90s.
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Aug 18, 2016 01:26
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Isn't Bolivia's economy going down like everyone else's now? I thought I read their exports went down massively this year?
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Aug 18, 2016 01:45
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I don't think Dilma's economic decisions were bad, it's just that the previous administrations (FHC and Lula) were, frankly, kind of great. The more I read about Plano Real the more I'm convinced that it was an absolute genius move. And Lula sure knew hot to maintain the momentum. Take the 2008 financial crisis for example, its effects in Brazil were mild at worse. This continues to baffle me to this day. Dilma was elected in a moment where we needed new blood assuming the government, the party was too worn out with 8 years in power (much like FHC's party before the defeat to Lula). But we got no choice in the elections, add Dilma's stubbornness and also a world rise in right wing politics in the last years... And we got the dumbest president impeachment ever. I feel like the USA will end up with a very similar situation with Hillary Clinton if she gets elected. In the sense that living in the shadow of Obama, she's not a successor that people really have faith in. And man will that rile a bigger opposition...
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Aug 18, 2016 02:11
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TheLovablePlutonis posted:Well, there's a few million less people starving in absolute misery here. Give Maduro a few more months.
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Aug 18, 2016 02:53
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Symbolic Butt posted:I don't think Dilma's economic decisions were bad, it's just that the previous administrations (FHC and Lula) were, frankly, kind of great. The more I read about Plano Real the more I'm convinced that it was an absolute genius move. And Lula sure knew hot to maintain the momentum. Take the 2008 financial crisis for example, its effects in Brazil were mild at worse. This continues to baffle me to this day. How so? The Plano Real was basically a disguised dollarization of the economy, and the sky-high interest rates that really stamped down inflation were ruinous to businesses, and also made the internal deficit explode. The enforced parity between the dollar and the real was another massive drain on resources, and after swearing up and down that they would not just release it and let chaos reign during the 1998 re-election campaign, of course they did just that once they had won, after warning a few choice banks and pals so they could take advantage. Between the bought re-election amendment, empowering vile oligarchs like Antonio Carlos Magalhaes and Jader Barbalho, managing to privatize a lot of prime companies and -still- drown in red ink, FHC's reign was really bad. It had some positive legacies, mind, but overall? There's a reason a notably left-o-phobic electorate was willing to give Lula another chance in 2002, and it wasn't because they suddenly saw the light; the supposedly business-friendly marketeers were slipping and slipping bad, and only the presence of a ridiculously lenient AG kept it from also being capsized by overt corruption (instead of implicit corruption).
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Aug 18, 2016 05:54
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Polidoro posted:Isn't Bolivia's economy going down like everyone else's now? I thought I read their exports went down massively this year? They seem to be doing fine.
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Aug 18, 2016 06:33
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lol
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Aug 18, 2016 06:36
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icantfindaname posted:what do you mean by shady? that they're not Full Communist enough, or something else? they're deliberately and consciously confabulatory on ideological direction; in the context of a question as to which major parties are Good, that should be a concern as for the Plano Real, the conventional wisdom is that it was tremendously successful at its main goal, which was to stabilize inflation the relative success and moderation of the pink tide has more to do with the end of the Cold War making militant radicalism from either side less rewarding and more difficult - high-stakes militancy is harder without US or Soviet backing - and the main trigger being the macroeconomic instability of the 1990s (remember those? Asian financial crisis, Russian default? Chaos in Mexico, Brazilian devaluation, riots in Argentina?). This is why there is a generation of populist, moderate-left governments with relatively rigid attitudes toward debt and currency policy these governments endured amidst a decade-long boom in resource exports, largely due to China, and are now struggling for the same resource-related reasons. domestic malaises like endemic corruption and an enduring faith in personality politics - well, those are hardly new, are they?
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Aug 18, 2016 09:14
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ronya posted:they're deliberately and consciously confabulatory on ideological direction; in the context of a question as to which major parties are Good, that should be a concern The desire for a left alternative to neoliberalism and the inability of anyone to come up with one that works is not deliberate IMO. It's just the curse of being a socialist I still can't figure out what your actual for real political position is though, literally everything you post is concern trolling leftists about their failure to come up with a working alternative to neoliberalism. Which I can fully support but still, you're a real man of mystery icantfindaname fucked around with this message at 09:49 on Aug 18, 2016 |
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Aug 18, 2016 09:46
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The reason I ask if "what major left wing political parties are there that are good", is because I notice people do a lot of criticizing but not too many solutions. Saying "all parties suck" only lead to two possible truths: #1 Out of the well over 100 democratic countries there is literally not one legitimately good left wing party #2 There are some out there, but people would rather criticize than play the hard game of politics
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Aug 18, 2016 13:26
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The real problem with Left-Wing governments was that they never cared enough to do real prosecution and yes, I'm going to say it, purging of the oligarchical interests that held the continental in thrall for centuries and their patsies inside the government. Chavez didn't had the balls to send a cruise missile at the mansions that kept funding propaganda and disrupting the venezuelan economy and the results can be seen now.
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Aug 18, 2016 15:05
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TheLovablePlutonis posted:The real problem with Left-Wing governments was that they never cared enough to do real prosecution and yes, I'm going to say it, purging of the oligarchical interests that held the continental in thrall for centuries and their patsies inside the government. Chavez didn't had the balls to send a cruise missile at the mansions that kept funding propaganda and disrupting the venezuelan economy and the results can be seen now. Well of course Chavez didn't fire a missile at himself, that would be suicide.
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Aug 18, 2016 15:12
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TheLovablePlutonis posted:The real problem with Left-Wing governments was that they never cared enough to do real prosecution and yes, I'm going to say it, purging of the oligarchical interests that held the continental in thrall for centuries and their patsies inside the government. Chavez didn't had the balls to send a cruise missile at the mansions that kept funding propaganda and disrupting the venezuelan economy and the results can be seen now. While the oligarchs did do some shady things, Venezuela's current situation is due to the idiotic economic policies of the PSUV, rather than outsider interference.
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Aug 18, 2016 19:12
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And so the Olympics came and went, like a bad (or awesome) Tinder date. No Zika swarms carrying off pole vaulters, no ISIS strikes, no loons emptying AK47s in the sport-loving crowds. Heck, even the flavorful bit of local violence was made up by a chlorinated jerkwad! The response among my friends has been interesting. They were so convinced it was going to be a disaster that the games just being normal with some hangups didn't register into their plans. And they were -furious- at Lochte for making us look bad internationally. We are a funny kind. We take almost aggressive pride in how hopeless, corrupt and lovely the country is, but the moment someone else thumbs a nose at us, we turn up the injured pride to 11. It's like a cancer patient going around the Oncology ward bragging about how he has the biggest, meanest tumor that ever colonized a lymphatic system and they don't know what real cancer is, the wusses. And then when someone else says "Wow, dude, you're a goner", he huffs and puffs and tells people that he -wants- to live and has this thing beat.
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Aug 22, 2016 16:41
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Can someone tell me how the gently caress did IstoÉ changed its editorial line in such an aggressive way in the last two years? During the Lula days it was the closest of a neutral mag we had compared to Época and Veja but now it's the most rabid Anti-PT one by a large margin.
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Aug 22, 2016 16:56
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TheLovablePlutonis posted:Can someone tell me how the gently caress did IstoÉ changed its editorial line in such an aggressive way in the last two years? During the Lula days it was the closest of a neutral mag we had compared to Época and Veja but now it's the most rabid Anti-PT one by a large margin. yeah I noticed that too, my pet theory is that it sells more magazines
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Aug 22, 2016 17:17
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I haven't read it in years, but my impression was always that editora 3 was closely tied to PMDB top dogs.
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Aug 22, 2016 17:35
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Sephyr posted:And so the Olympics came and went, like a bad (or awesome) Tinder date. No Zika swarms carrying off pole vaulters, no ISIS strikes, no loons emptying AK47s in the sport-loving crowds. Heck, even the flavorful bit of local violence was made up by a chlorinated jerkwad! From day 1 I never trusted the idiotic doomsday predictions made and even said so ITT. The IOC is corrupt as all hell? Yes. Half those expensive infrastructure projects will become worthless? Yes. Temer would be a chickenshit who would try to crack down and put pressure against all those protests against him? Yes. But we pulled the loving thing out and there was no terrorism, no flesheating bacteria and no zika death outbreak. So there's that, Brazil can actually make the best out of it's lovely situation.
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Aug 22, 2016 18:28
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That only means that everyone who got kickbacks and bailed mid contract with all the upfront money managed to get away with it and our culture of corruption won't change easily since we still can get things done, gently caress the quality standards. I don't know if there's anything to be happy about here except that the athletes managed to have a decent competition. The paralympic games might be completely hosed though, so let's not celebrate too early.
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Aug 22, 2016 18:39
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TheLovablePlutonis posted:From day 1 I never trusted the idiotic doomsday predictions made and even said so ITT. The IOC is corrupt as all hell? Yes. Half those expensive infrastructure projects will become worthless? Yes. Temer would be a chickenshit who would try to crack down and put pressure against all those protests against him? Yes. But we pulled the loving thing out and there was no terrorism, no flesheating bacteria and no zika death outbreak. So there's that, Brazil can actually make the best out of it's lovely situation. Yeah, after the World Cup went alright, I was also confident that the Olympics would go well. Sure, it takes putting whole cities under military lockdown, but since when has that been an issue?
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Aug 22, 2016 21:24
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The regional election cycle... it begins  
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Aug 23, 2016 19:21
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bagual posted:The regional election cycle... it begins What in the name of gently caress am I looking at
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Aug 23, 2016 19:54
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Are there people with names like Stalin Junior and Stallone De PG 20000 running for office in Brazil? Are those their real names? Are those real ads? I'm so confused
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Aug 23, 2016 19:59
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Friendly Humour posted:Are there people with names like Stalin Junior and Stallone De PG 20000 running for office in Brazil? Are those their real names? Are those real ads? I'm so confused they just call him "Junior" normally
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Aug 23, 2016 20:01
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Friendly Humour posted:Are there people with names like Stalin Junior and Stallone De PG 20000 running for office in Brazil? Are those their real names? Are those real ads? I'm so confused Yes. Stalin Jr. probably, not the others. Yes.
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Aug 23, 2016 21:04
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Friendly Humour posted:Are there people with names like Stalin Junior and Stallone De PG 20000 running for office in Brazil? Are those their real names? Are those real ads? I'm so confused Yes. A lot of the gimmicky candidates are for legislative positions (Stalin Junior is the exception as a mayoral candidate). Since a large number of Brazilians think the executive power does everything and legislative candidates get like 3 seconds of screentime during the electoral program there is a huge amount of candidates that run on having a memorable/funny theme so people will indiferently throw votes in their general direction come election day because they have to vote for someone. It is not unusual for it to work. The other successful legislative candidates are usually people with a ready made corral of voters: landowners, priests and influential families (who will also usually have a radio or TV affiliate under the family).
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Aug 23, 2016 21:41
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ZearothK posted:Yes. Ohh, ok now I get it. Finland is pretty much the polar opposite, you see. For example, the first Mayor of Tampere since 1873 (oslt) was elected in 2006. Executive power has always been a subject to legistative power in finnish political culture, so this whole outlook is a bit bizarre for me.
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Aug 24, 2016 00:53
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Not that Finnish political adds have ever achieved that level of... Whatever you call that. That's still completely bizarre. What the gently caress Brazil
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Aug 24, 2016 00:55
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A lot of these guys are running for...I suppose city council is the closest approximation here? It's more a contest of popularity than anything else, so you get bizarre candidates and lots of annoying jingles and catchphrases. Since, as ZearothK said, people in Brazil kinda ignore that the legislative ACTUALLY matters (and it does, a lot), that kind of bizarre poo poo happens.
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Aug 24, 2016 01:21
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In a story that is picking up steam, Temer's government seems to be petty enough to mess with a movie because its actors protested against him in Cannes: http://variety.com/2016/film/in-contention/oscars-controversy-aquarius-brazil-1201845672/
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Aug 27, 2016 02:17
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https://twitter.com/William_Castro/status/769312207473631233 All the warriors!
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Aug 28, 2016 00:18
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So candidates can just run under any name they want is the gist of this? I'm still amazed by all this. Post more of these
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Aug 28, 2016 05:52
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What, isn't that normal all around the world? That's democracy!
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Aug 28, 2016 05:57
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