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xthetenth posted:Alternately you could use the speed to dictate the terms of your engagements, and pressure cruisers hard. I don't dislike the NY, it's real workable and its turning is really useful, but the Kongo is a beast in terms of being able to impact the match. I've never seen a Kongo really impact a match like a New York, or its bigger sister Fuso. Beast is the last word I would use to describe a fragile boat like that. Using speed to dictate engagements is nice and all, but eventually you reach the edge of the map and have to turn around, or the battle ends before you get there because the Kongo wasn't there to make things happen up close in the cap points when the New York was. New York goes in and makes things happen, same as Wyoming, Fuso, and Colorado. New Mexico can too, I guess, but I just like the Fuso more. NTRabbit fucked around with this message at 15:37 on Aug 18, 2016 |
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Aug 18, 2016 15:33
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NTRabbit posted:The only thing a Kongo does better than the New York is snipe, and I'm really not a fan of sniping beyond cheeky early battle shots. The shorter gun range and lack of speed are made up for by more guns, better armour, better AA, and better ability to dodge torpedoes of all kinds, but especially air dropped ones. lol at you if you think the Nagato can't engage in glorious knifefights.
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Aug 18, 2016 15:39
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I think the New York and Kongo are actually fairly even. I mean, in all the games I played in my New York I never came across a Kongo feeling at all inferior. If anything I thought of them as food (probably because most BB drivers especially at tier 5 are garbage). But having never played the Kongo I can't speak for how it feels from the other way around.
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Aug 18, 2016 15:43
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Junkozeyne posted:lol at you if you think the Nagato can't engage in glorious knifefights. It can't do it as well as a Colorado, is what I was saying. All things being equal, a Colorado should be beating down a Nagato in a knifefight every time, and a New York likewise with the Kongo, but the Colorado is gonna come away with a bloodier nose than the New York, on account of all those Nagato secondaries.
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Aug 18, 2016 15:44
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But it really shouldn't? The Colorado has ridiculous few HP and isn't hard to citadel with the non-stock 410mm AP. If a Colorado doesn't regret brawling against a Nagato then I don't know what to say really.
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Aug 18, 2016 15:50
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NTRabbit posted:The only thing a Kongo does better than the New York is snipe, and I'm really not a fan of sniping beyond cheeky early battle shots. The shorter gun range and lack of speed are made up for by more guns, better armour, better AA, and better ability to dodge torpedoes of all kinds, but especially air dropped ones. No, no the lack of speed really isn't made up by anything. The sheer flexibility of having 30 knots of top speed vs 21 and better accelleration is just flat out game-changing if you know even remotely how to use it. Also, the New York doesn't have more guns unless you want to present flat or near-flat broadside all the drat time due to the atrocious angles on that central turret. And anyone who thinks the Kongo (let alone the bloody Nagato) are "delicate flowers" is someone who sucks at keeping his ship angled properly - and the same goes for anyone thinking the Nagato isn't a loving premiere brawler. Again, NTRabbit... it's not the ship. It's you. You're the pubbie. Ice Fist posted:I think the New York and Kongo are actually fairly even. I mean, in all the games I played in my New York I never came across a Kongo feeling at all inferior. If anything I thought of them as food (probably because most BB drivers especially at tier 5 are garbage). But having never played the Kongo I can't speak for how it feels from the other way around. They're pretty even in a direct matchup if both capains know what they're doing (though the New York is more noob-friendly in that situation hands-down). Where the Kongo shines is that sheer speed advantage which combined with a dose of situational awareness allows her a hell of a lot more flexibility in terms of being in the right place at the right time to impact the match. Not to mention that she's hella better at chasing down and murdering cruisers thanks to that.
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Aug 18, 2016 15:53
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Junkozeyne posted:But it really shouldn't? The Colorado has ridiculous few HP and isn't hard to citadel with the non-stock 410mm AP. If a Colorado doesn't regret brawling against a Nagato then I don't know what to say really. Colorado guns do much more damage to the Nagato than vice versa, on account of the Colorado having armour and being reasonably tough to citadel, and the Nagato not having armour and being pretty easy to citadel. A Myoko can punch the piss out of a Nagato with AP, let alone something with 16" guns. Also, once I got the turret skill on my captain and the upgraded hull, the Nassau actually turned out to be pretty good, certainly better than the Kawachi or South Carolina. Ok guns, lots of staying power, if that holds out I think I might like this branch the most. Magni posted:Also, the New York doesn't have more guns unless you want to present flat or near-flat broadside all the drat time due to the atrocious angles on that central turret. Sounds like you're just using it wrong then, it's pretty easy to use that middle turret all the time without exposing yourself to anything. The supposed flexibility of the speed advantage is a port mirage that disappears once you hit the ocean in an actual random battle, and is really only notable in edge cases like rushing back to stop your base being capped, or on the Ocean map. Everywhere else, islands and map constraints render it theoretical at most. NTRabbit fucked around with this message at 16:24 on Aug 18, 2016 |
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Aug 18, 2016 15:54
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NTRabbit posted:Colorado guns do much more damage to the Nagato than vice versa, on account of the Colorado having armour and being reasonably tough to citadel, and the Nagato not having armour and being pretty easy to citadel. A Myoko can punch the piss out of a Nagato with AP, let alone something with 16" guns. Except the Nagato has superb armor if you keep her angled. gently caress, she can bounce 16in/50s from an Iowa quote:Sounds like you're just using it wrong then, it's pretty easy to use that middle turret all the time without exposing yourself to anything. Wishful thinking against any opponent who's smart enough to wait for you to try and unshadow that thing. You will always spend more than enough time showing bad angles to get wrecked by aynone with proper timing, even will every upgrade to your turning possible to be fitted on the ship. quote:The supposed flexibility of the speed advantage is a port mirage that disappears once you hit the ocean in an actual random battle, And that you actually believe this, yet again, proves nothing except for you being a terrible pubbie. This "supposed" flexibility is a real, and game-changing advantage on literally any single last map in the game. Islands do nothing to "constrain" it. (What the gently caress does that meaingless soundbite even mean? It makes zero actual sense.) In fact, it allows a hell of a lot more freedom in actively using islands and assorted terrain to your advantage. Ocean? Ocean is perhaps the map on which it offer the least impact. It seems like you're under the delusion that the only thing such a huge speed advantage allows is to run away and keep the range open. Yeah, newsflash: That's decidedly not the biggest way in which that speed advantage impacts how the ship can be played. Magni fucked around with this message at 16:27 on Aug 18, 2016 |
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Aug 18, 2016 16:22
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In other news not fueled by NTRabbit's opposite world had a game with 2 Bismarcks in my team. 10.2km secondary range and pretty good accuracy on those too. 15/10 can't wait for Bismarck.
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Aug 18, 2016 16:27
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Magni posted:Wishful thinking against any opponent who's smart enough to wait for you to try and unshadow that thing. You will always spend more than enough time showing bad angles to get wrecked by aynone with proper timing, even will every upgrade to your turning possible to be fitted on the ship. It's really not wishful thinking, it's what actually happens. At ranges under about 8km the New York has vastly superior belt armour, superior guns, a superior number of guns, and excellent turning characteristics. A Kongo within that range is almost certainly mince meat. Magni posted:This "supposed" flexibility is a real, and game-changing advantage on literally any single last map in the game This on the other hand is wishful thinking. While you're dictating the range to me, I'm dictating the battle to you, by forcing you out of it to where you're no longer effectively contributing, while I'm still dealing heavy damage to other things up close. NTRabbit fucked around with this message at 16:44 on Aug 18, 2016 |
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Aug 18, 2016 16:28
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All these years and people still try to argue with NTRabbit 
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Aug 18, 2016 16:34
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Junkozeyne posted:In other news not fueled by NTRabbit's opposite world had a game with 2 Bismarcks in my team. 10.2km secondary range and pretty good accuracy on those too. 15/10 can't wait for Bismarck. I'm looking forward to a battleship with a St Louis for its superstructure. Also just loving laffo at speed not letting you do things like spot overextended enemies and punish the poo poo out of them. Like say the New York that's being engaged heavily by multiple friendlies. Or maybe something more pedestrian like some cruisers working near a point.
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Aug 18, 2016 16:55
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NTRabbit posted:It's really not wishful thinking, it's what actually happens. At ranges under about 8km the New York has vastly superior belt armour, superior guns, a superior number of guns, and excellent turning characteristics. A Kongo within that range is almost certainly mince meat. Yeah, you're just wrong on every single count. PS: You're still pretending that dictating the range is what the speed advantage of the Kongo is about. Literally pubbie.txt.
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Aug 18, 2016 17:21
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From a personal perspective I've found the 30 knot range of the Kongo to have been absolutely amazing. It allows the ship to be far more flexible to what is happening in the game. Being able to get back in a reasonable timeframe to take cap points or even take the enemies quickly enough has been quite lovely. On top of that, 30 knots allows the ship to get itself out of trouble far more than I am used to with BBs. Particularly one case I've ran into is that it also allows you to not get as easily chased down by DDs. While they'll often have a speed advantage it is a lot harder for them to get an optimal torpedo angle on you and on to of that, due to the two turrets at the back you can punish them for any pursuit .
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Aug 18, 2016 17:31
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Yeah, laughing at destroyers that committed to a suicide charge sucking wind behind you doing maybe six knots more than you is amazing and will never get old.
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Aug 18, 2016 17:42
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Another point in Kongo's favor is the bow armor. While New York does have decently more armor overall, Kongo's bow will bounce 356mm shells, whereas New York's bow is overmatched. A lot of newer players are not going to know how to use that advantage, but experienced ones can make very good use of that difference.
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Aug 18, 2016 17:53
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Nordick posted:All these years and people still try to argue with NTRabbit It should be in the OP.
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Aug 18, 2016 18:02
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We've all done it, just call him loving dumb and move on.
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Aug 18, 2016 18:17
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Any further thoughts on the Gneisenau vs Nagato debate? I haven't seen a ship divide opinion as much as the Gneisenau.
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Aug 18, 2016 18:31
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As someone who really likes the I can't wait to have a secondary specced Bismarck and a 15 point Captain. I think that's where I'm stopping on that line. The Grossest Leviathan seems a bit too weird and yuuge for my tastes. It should have Trump camo with a giant gold T painted on the side and Trump flag that gives it an extra half knot of speed (lots of hot air.) Also, I can't wait to get out of the Hatsu and into the Fubuki. I've gun-boat specced the Hatsu, but should be much more fun in the Fubuki.
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Aug 18, 2016 18:35
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I was playing against a guy yesterday whose torpedo bombers were dropping at 1km. Is there a secret to getting them in that close? I thought that the circle was maybe 2km radius.
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Aug 18, 2016 18:38
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Having trouble effectively fighting Gneisenau/Scharnhorst in my Nagato at the moment. Might be just due to the fact that they are new and it takes a while to adjust aiming for the big numbers. edit: While selecting a torpedo bomber squadron, press 'alt' you can freely move around the area and can set it much nearer to targets than auto-drop allows. Just be aware there is a minimum distance the torpedoes have to travel.
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Aug 18, 2016 18:45
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22 Eargesplitten posted:I was playing against a guy yesterday whose torpedo bombers were dropping at 1km. Is there a secret to getting them in that close? I thought that the circle was maybe 2km radius. Manual drops, use alt.
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Aug 18, 2016 18:47
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Well that's nice, the Kaiser's wing turrets can crossfire across the hull. I was expecting to only have 4 turret broadsides.
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Aug 18, 2016 19:14
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So apparently the tier 5 German cruiser can just shoot its AP into the Scharn super structure for 3-6K volleys every 6 seconds or whatever. Why does the Scharn take so much damage to their superstructure?
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Aug 18, 2016 19:16
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BadLlama posted:So apparently the tier 5 German cruiser can just shoot its AP into the Scharn super structure for 3-6K volleys every 6 seconds or whatever. Why does the Scharn take so much damage to their superstructure? That's not unique, you can do that to every BB with a large superstructure.
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Aug 18, 2016 19:20
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Gwaihir posted:That's not unique, you can do that to every BB with a large superstructure. Well then, I need to continue down the German CC line cause its pretty awesome.
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Aug 18, 2016 19:46
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That's pretty much the german CA line's whole thing, good rapid fire AP to ventilate superstructures with. They really shine at doing it in T5/T6.
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Aug 18, 2016 19:49
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What's the verdict on the first couple of German BBs? Free XP past them or trudge through?
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Aug 18, 2016 19:50
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The Konigsberg and Nurnberg are both strong contenders for best-at-tier cruiser, but overall the German cruisers' thing is their extremely strong AP. You can pen any cruiser at-tier and most battleships. They're also very fast to reload, but to balance this out are badly armored.
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Aug 18, 2016 19:51
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Devorum posted:What's the verdict on the first couple of German BBs? Free XP past them or trudge through? Once you get the turret rotation skill the Nassau is actually ok, strange that the German one is good when the other two are deliberately bad, no need to free xp past it
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Aug 18, 2016 19:59
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NTRabbit posted:Colorado > Nagato lol
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Aug 18, 2016 20:13
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Devorum posted:What's the verdict on the first couple of German BBs? Free XP past them or trudge through? Nassau is pretty good especially if you have the power of torpedobeat, Kaiser can be iffy at times and encourages giving a flat side.
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Aug 18, 2016 20:26
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xthetenth posted:Nassau is pretty good especially if you have the power of torpedobeat, Kaiser can be iffy at times and encourages giving a flat side. I hated the Kaiser, but mostly because it seemed unable to do real damage to other Kaisers (which in a vacuum isn't as much of a concern as it is right now).
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Aug 18, 2016 20:34
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wdarkk posted:I hated the Kaiser, but mostly because it seemed unable to do real damage to other Kaisers (which in a vacuum isn't as much of a concern as it is right now). I'm pretty sick of exactly that. I'm also pretty sick of catching entire salvoes on the armor for my secondaries and losing near 10k hp when I can't get a salvo to line up like that to save my life.
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Aug 18, 2016 20:37
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Good to see some things are stable as ever. Like NTRabbit being so incredibly wrong about so many things. Like I haven't played in a year or so and I know Kongo owns.
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Aug 18, 2016 20:38
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One thing I noticed playing carriers against the Kaiser hordes is that they have deceptively good AA. Against 2 or more Kaiser together, Hosho torp bombers don't even their fish in the water on a close-drop run. You're better off dropping at mid ranges to avoid time in the aura. Glancing at the stats, it seems to be that the Kaiser stock hull AA goes into effect at 4km and the shortest range is 3.5km. Even though the Wyoming is technically better, its best AA doesn't happen until 1.2km for example. I suspect the Kaiser top hull, despite having more AA guns, will be worse at repelling bombers as you lose some 88mm and the additional guns have only 2km range.
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Aug 18, 2016 20:43
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Just a headsup, anyone who says the Nassau is good, or enjoys playing T3 is objectively wrong. Hope that helps. I used all my free XP on upgrading Udaloi and Donkoi and I don't feel like dropping any more cash in the near future so I'm grinding through the T3 cesspit. The only thing worse than any T3 BB is the Novik.
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Aug 18, 2016 21:05
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It's true, tier 3 isn't a very fun tier.
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Aug 18, 2016 21:39
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Eh, T5 is arguably the harshest tier now. Previously it was T3 that could only see one tier lower, but two tiers higher; now that's T5, with everything below only having a max of 1 tier difference. Max one down but two up is pretty unpleasant when it comes to MM.
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Aug 18, 2016 22:26
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