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Ambrose Burnside posted:it seems exceedingly unlikely that that dude wont eat a murder charge b/c come the gently caress on, but also, prairies white supremacy is real and powerful and definitely this dude's friend Yeah it's not even dog whistles in this case. There's other farmers who consider this guy a hero and wonder why he left any of the kids alive. I loving hate this province sometimes.
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Aug 18, 2016 19:18
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I can't imagine a scenario where this guy gets off but ianal and there's been no evidence presented yet so who knows. If he gets off like a white cop in the US, race relations in Saskatchewan could get very bad very quickly.
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Aug 18, 2016 19:30
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RBC posted:He hasn't done anything concrete yet. There is a carbon tax "proposal" and we will see if he he is able to accomplish anything. Sure he has. He approved a whole bunch of concrete be poured to make the Site C dam. About as concrete as it gets.
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Aug 18, 2016 19:32
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Ikantski posted:Sure he has. He approved a whole bunch of concrete be poured to make the Site C dam. About as concrete as it gets. lol wait. Are you saying that's positive?
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Aug 18, 2016 19:44
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RBC posted:lol wait. Are you saying that's positive? No, I'm saying he's taken literally concrete steps in the negative direction. Keep up that cautious optimism though.
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Aug 18, 2016 19:45
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RBC posted:lol wait. Are you saying that's positive? You don't get points or ikantski's pun 
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Aug 18, 2016 19:49
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Chicken posted:I can't imagine a scenario where this guy gets off but ianal and there's been no evidence presented yet so who knows. If he gets off like a white cop in the US, race relations in Saskatchewan could get very bad very quickly. Could get? It's already pretty godawful here.
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Aug 18, 2016 20:16
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CopywrightMMXI posted:Yeah it's not even dog whistles in this case. There's other farmers who consider this guy a hero and wonder why he left any of the kids alive. I loving hate this province sometimes. Honestly, that seems even worse than anti-black racism in the US, since even most racists who want the police to shoot "thugs" would probably acknowledge that killing a carload of black people just because would cross the line. Like, gently caress, I don't think there's this much anti-native racism in Alberta, and god knows there's already plenty in Alberta.
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Aug 18, 2016 20:38
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klockwerk posted:Could get? It's already pretty godawful here. Imagine the Vancouver Stanley Cup riots except race related and for a not completely stupid reason.
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Aug 18, 2016 20:39
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Mozi posted:Really the whole dog purebreeding/accreditation business just stinks of outdated racialist thought. I think there's merit in specific instances of breeding dogs such as breeding them to have predictable temperaments/trainability when they're definitely going to be working dogs but I absolutely agree that breeding dogs purely for aesthetics at the expense of a dog's health is hosed up. I'd say it'd definitely be good to have some kind required course/training regimen if you're planning on buying/adopting a dog that's a breed known for being aggressive so you know how to train your dog to not be aggressive or so you can identify times when your dog is likely to snap before it happens, like for instance if someone's getting in your dog's space and ignoring all of its nonhostile "please get away from me" signals until it feels like it has to bite you know how to pick up on that and can remove your dog from the situation.
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Aug 18, 2016 20:55
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Chicken posted:Imagine the Vancouver Stanley Cup riots except race related and for a not completely stupid reason. I'd really rather not, because one presumes that there is no way that mobs of rioting First Nations looters in Saskatoon or Regina ends without some sort of bloodshed. That said, this is Canada and there is not a scrap of doubt in my mind that this man is going to jail for something. Feel free to call me on this if I'm wrong.
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Aug 18, 2016 20:58
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Yeah, we've established that you can't even shoot someone who's trespassing and actually in the act of stealing something or doing some other criminal act, so my guess is this guy will be guilty of at least manslaughter.
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Aug 18, 2016 21:11
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David Corbett posted:I'd really rather not, because one presumes that there is no way that mobs of rioting First Nations looters in Saskatoon or Regina ends without some sort of bloodshed. Yeah that was a flippant dumb comment. I agree with you that there's not much chance this guy will be found innocent. Hopefully this case sparks some kind of dialogue in Saskatchewan regardless of the outcome.
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Aug 18, 2016 21:21
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He'll go to prison and tons of cultural rurals will hold him up at a martyr, imprisoned for simply defending his property and family from a pack of violent tribal raiders who were obviously speeding towards his property with the intent of theft and murder. Political correctness has taken away our ability to even defend our homesteads against rampaging indian raids!
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Aug 18, 2016 21:29
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You're all assuming he's convicted and not acquitted by a jury on the basis of self defence.
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Aug 18, 2016 21:31
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klockwerk posted:Could get? It's already pretty godawful here. And has been so since Time Immemorial. To be fair to Tommy Douglas hiring a KKK Grand Wizzard, given the low population and the high numbers of KKK chapters on the prairies during that period it probably wasn't possible to throw a loaf of Ukrainian Easter Bread in a political convention without hitting a Grand Wizzard or two. Definitely would have been a bitch to hire political advisors at the time, but he would have represented a significant part of the population. It looks like a lot of ire was directed at Catholics for wanting to wear religious symbols on their heads, around their necks, or some loving thing. And Biggar had cross burnings. How precious. Haven't found anything that advanced in B.C. (yet).
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Aug 18, 2016 21:32
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PT6A posted:Honestly, that seems even worse than anti-black racism in the US, since even most racists who want the police to shoot "thugs" would probably acknowledge that killing a carload of black people just because would cross the line. You live in Calgary next to a very rich tribe. Go out to valleyview or rocky mountain house. Places where There is a noticeable amount of crime from the local reservations in otherwise "work camp" like towns. I doubt there's an acreage they could drive onto out there without getting shot. There probably isn't an acreage out there you could drive into after dark without getting shot. A lot of people out there have been repeatedly victimized by thieves and the RCMP come out, look around, say "well, that sucks", and that's the last you hear of it from them. It's not only the natives doing it, but they're the only recognizable group to finger. In calgary when somebody loots your shed, you assume it's a crackhead and while some of them do stand out, a lot don't because they're in a nice stolen vehicle with nice stolen clothes. In areas near reservations, they assume it's a native, and natives do stand out. The only time I've ever been stopped at a "paperwork" checkstop was on the road coming out of the o'chiese reservation outside of rocky. They were targeting natives and towing vehicles 50km back to rocky, putting $100s in tickets and a $600 tow charge on $500 vehicles. That's about as close as you'll get to the american style racism here.
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Aug 18, 2016 21:39
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El Scotch posted:You're all assuming he's convicted and not acquitted by a jury on the basis of self defence.
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Aug 18, 2016 21:40
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Legit Businessman fucked around with this message at 19:37 on Sep 9, 2022 |
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Aug 18, 2016 21:50
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THC posted:Self defense is not grounds for acquittal in a murder case. Um, there are a lot of limits on the legal use of self-defence in Canada but the fact that the offence being tried is murder is not one of them. edit: beaten by the usual suspect!
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Aug 18, 2016 21:56
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Hell that dude just got off on section 34 last month for shiving a dude in prison.
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Aug 18, 2016 21:57
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Hexigrammus posted:And has been so since Time Immemorial. this was either posted here or in the debt megathread recently: http://www.vancouversun.com/life/Photos+Klux+Klan+Vancouver+lest+forget/8844611/story.html
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Aug 18, 2016 21:58
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PT6A posted:Yeah, we've established that you can't even shoot someone who's trespassing and actually in the act of stealing something or doing some other criminal act, so my guess is this guy will be guilty of at least manslaughter. Yup. Can't shoot people for stealing in this country. Only way this guy has a chance of getting off is if one of the trespassers 1-had a knfie 2-tried to grab his gun 3-were breaking into his house I do wonder what we are missing from this story. Maybe I am naive but I dont picture the guy just walking out front door once he saw a car pull up and he starts randomly shooting. Obviously there was some kind of confrontation.
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Aug 18, 2016 22:10
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Sorry I meant to say I don't think it'll fly in a case like this one. They could at best claim they "felt threatened" but they weren't actually threatened with bodily harm at any point. But who knows really
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Aug 18, 2016 22:11
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JawKnee posted:this was either posted here or in the debt megathread recently: http://www.vancouversun.com/life/Photos+Klux+Klan+Vancouver+lest+forget/8844611/story.html Oops, how embarrassing. I posted that but missed the picture of the cross burning. I thought they just paraded and railroaded Chinese staff on murder charges. On the one hand I'm disappointed the cross burnings weren't in the Peace River district. OTOH, Stave Lake is just north of Abbotsford, so close enough. edit: Two of those photos are dated June, 1981. Either that's a typo or Abbotsford, the jewel of B.C.'s Bible Belt, is even shittier than I thought. Not sure I want to research just how deep the poo poo goes. Hexigrammus fucked around with this message at 22:55 on Aug 18, 2016 |
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Aug 18, 2016 22:35
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This Saskatchewan shooting business is as sad as it was inevitable. In essence, this is simply Canada's historical federal reserve system chickens come home to roost. White and FNMI populations are demarcated very rigidly along racial lines in rural SK. For reference, there are roughly 70 First Nations reserves in Saskatchewan in the midst of 150 towns and 280 villages. Some very rough napkin math shows that a full ~1/5 of SK's rural population is FNMI - 70,000/350,000 - and the vast, vast majority of that 70,000 will be on-reserve First Nations populations. So while FNMI people make up a pretty sizeable chunk of SKs rural population, they (with some exceptions and as a blanket statement) simply do not live in white rural communities. And it shows in rural culture. The pass system is long legally dead, but there remains very little contact between these communities and segregation remains in practice, if not in name. In more than a few regions, friggin' Hutterites are more common. Simply put, to the great majority of white rural SKers, FNMI are at best invisible, and at worst demonized. Both lead to this tragedy. This is thanks in part to decades' long lack of initiative and perpetual foot-dragging and can-kicking between the Feds and SK. Inequality has become deeply and systemically entrenched - reserve schools get roughly 1/3 the funding of a school a town over. An SK FNMI male youth is more likely to end up in jail than graduate. With those facts in mind, consider as well that "in Saskatchewan, the incarceration rate among Aboriginal young adults with a high school education but without a job was approximately four times lower than the rate among those with a job but without a high school diploma." Access to education is racially delineated. Poverty is racialised. Poverty is socially criminalised. The circle of life continues. So of course this is going to breed suspicion and contempt and cause divisions to become more deeply entrenched. Circle of life. This is definitely not the end, though. These stresses certainly aren't going anywhere anytime soon, even if the stars of government attention and popular will aligned tomorrow. -- On this note - some time ago in this thread, someone remarked on how far away Canadian FNMI groups were from active resistance/rebellion... I don't know about that. In some ways yes, but there is a lot (a lot) of discontent and resentment in SK's FNMI communities. If someone came along with sufficient amounts of intellect, "brown pride", and populist charm, a la Malcolm X, the FNMI communities of SK are tight-knit enough I could see a movement taking root. For what it's worth, I live in "Canada's Worst Neighbourhood" and interact with these communities on a daily basis, both personally and professionally. There is an active and growing community presence and sense of pride here. If a strong leader magically showed up, I could see community support for them being fairly malleable in terms of shape and direction. NOT THAT THAT MEANS I AM ADVOCATING IN ANY WAY AN ARMED INSURRECTION AGAINST THE STATE. Stickarts fucked around with this message at 00:33 on Aug 19, 2016 |
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Aug 19, 2016 00:29
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Boy these captains of industry really know how to privatize the gains and socialize the losses.quote:CNRL asks for 30% property tax cut, says levies could lead them to abandon wells early http://calgaryherald.com/business/energy/canadian-natural-resources-seeking-30-per-cent-property-tax-cuts
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Aug 19, 2016 01:09
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zapplez posted:Maybe I am naive but I dont picture the guy just walking out front door once he saw a car pull up and he starts randomly shooting. Birdshot at 50m will be painful and damaging, but not lethal to a person, especially after passing through steel/glass. Buckshot at 50m will gently caress you right up. My guess is he didn't actually expect to kill one of them, but had so little regard for their lives he wasn't really concerned about it. ductonius fucked around with this message at 01:28 on Aug 19, 2016 |
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Aug 19, 2016 01:22
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Chicken posted:I can't imagine a scenario where this guy gets off but ianal and there's been no evidence presented yet so who knows. If he gets off like a white cop in the US, race relations in Saskatchewan could get very bad very quickly. Don't worry, the resident criminal defense attorneys will be sure to explain why this guy only deserves community service and house arrest based on various legal things we just don't understand.
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Aug 19, 2016 01:48
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Ikantski posted:He said "done". And it's not actually going to inquire into the actual missing women, it seems like kind of a misleading name now. What are people's expectations here with an inquiry anyways? Do people honestly believe that somehow there's some lead that police haven't already dug into or all of a sudden they'll unearth some mass serial killer being the sole cause of all this? And if its the larger sociological cause-effect issue, what new will this inquiry bring that isn't already known about the marginalization of FN communites and peoples? We already know that their cultural genocide, marginalization and abuse in the past has lead to being more frequently victimized.
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Aug 19, 2016 02:03
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Jordan7hm posted:Don't worry, the resident criminal defense attorneys will be sure to explain why this guy only deserves community service and house arrest based on various legal things we just don't understand. I don't understand your attitude at all. I've seen you post multiple times about criminal law and about how you don't think the legal system is "right". You apparently don't have a thorough understanding of the legal system in Canada and when it does get explained to you by an expert in the field, you bitch and moan because what the legal system bases sentencing on doesn't match your world view?
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Aug 19, 2016 02:37
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Legit Businessman fucked around with this message at 19:37 on Sep 9, 2022 |
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Aug 19, 2016 02:55
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Somebody fucked around with this message at 21:08 on Sep 9, 2022 |
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Aug 19, 2016 03:13
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P-Value Hack posted:What are people's expectations here with an inquiry anyways? Pretty sure the expectation is this quote:Grand Chief Stewart Phillip of the Union of B.C. Indian Chiefs said the framework for the inquiry is flawed, and needs more funding or protections in writing that ensure recommendations will be acted on, instead of ignored. The 'root causes' way they're doing it, it's just a slightly scoped down truth and reconciliation commission, a $55m cut and paste. Libs get to keep a cheap campaign promise and look like they're doing something while giving the ball a hefty kick down the road, it's great politics.
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Aug 19, 2016 03:18
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zapplez posted:Yup. Can't shoot people for stealing in this country. Only way this guy has a chance of getting off is if one of the trespassers Given that one of the few established facts is "dude who got killed was still sitting in the car", a firm self-defense claim seems like a long shot no matter what else comes out
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Aug 19, 2016 03:21
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Ambrose Burnside posted:Given that one of the few established facts is "dude who got killed was still sitting in the car", a firm self-defense claim seems like a long shot no matter what else comes out I'm not defending the old guy here, just some facts and a possible scenario. The kid had a history of driving drunk. A car is absolutely a deadly weapon. Why would he be driving up the guy's driveway with a blown out tire, that'd gently caress up the rim pretty bad? The kids drive up the driveway for some reason, guy asks them to leave, kids won't leave, old guy goes and gets his gun, kid tries to back out but puts it in forward instead, guy shoots in self defense. The passengers' stories keep changing, one says there was a verbal altercation and another says the guy just started shooting out of nowhere right away. The old guy has lawyered up pretty good, I'm sure it'll all come out.
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Aug 19, 2016 03:33
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Jordan7hm posted:Don't worry, the resident criminal defense attorneys will be sure to explain why this guy only deserves community service and house arrest based on various legal things we just don't understand. He will probably do 10-25 years for 2nd degree murder, or if the Crown isn't particularly confident in their case at trial, maybe 5-15 through a plea bargain for manslaughter. Sounds about right for me. A youth commuting a similar offence would receive 7 years, which also seems appropriate. Canada's prison terms are more than fair if you believe rehabilitation should be the prime focus (you should) I was watching a documentary from the States about a 13 year old girl that accidentally killed her abusive grandmother (the girl was trying to keep her grandmother bedridden but OD her). Tried as an adult, sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole. So hosed up
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Aug 19, 2016 03:37
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Canada's prisons do very little to try to rehabilitate anyone, and if they did then the correct sentence would be exactly as long (or as short) as it has to be rather than some fixed length of time.
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Aug 19, 2016 03:40
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You know guys maybe you should wait until he's convicted before arguing whether the sentence is too short. Just a thought.
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Aug 19, 2016 03:43
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P-Value Hack posted:What are people's expectations here with an inquiry anyways? Do people honestly believe that somehow there's some lead that police haven't already dug into or all of a sudden they'll unearth some mass serial killer being the sole cause of all this? to ruin as many blue lives as possible?
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Aug 19, 2016 03:44
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