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Butt Ghost posted:Watching this is making me realize that I don't think I like Junko as a villain. Despair is such a vague catch-all motive, and her curazy being so unpredictable feels kind of lazy to me. She just does whatever the plot needs her to do. She just feels the fate on random people because they'll be important later. That's kinda why I like her personally, she's a murderously insane narcissist who devastates the world based off of pure whimsy. There's no sympathetic backstory, no tragic hidden motive, she's just 100% loving nuts. I guess it helps that they don't show her in-person very often, so when they do she leaves a big impact because of how massively unstable she is. Definitely doesn't work as well when focused on like the anime is doing now though Only despair can save you! ONLY I CAN SAVE YOU! was pretty  I white-knight the hope-despair thing because I honestly like the theme when applied to teenagers. When childish optimism meets adult "reality", people either make the best of the situation with what they have(Hope) or give up on everything, gently caress it(Despair). voltcatfish posted:Junko sucks. Mukuro is cool. voltcatfish posted:i'm also a fan of cliched love stories so i'm looking forward to real nanami and izuru reuniting in the final ep Good Opinion Alert EDIT: Hobgoblin2099 posted:Eh, I kind of feel the opposite. Thus far, Mukuro's whole shtick has been "My little sister is abusing me. What makes Mukuro interesting is that she actually started growing out of that by the time DR1 rolled around but it was tragically too late. She hung out with Naegi enough that strange thoughts like "maybe plunging the world into an apocalypse is kind of hosed-up" were starting to creep in. Yinlock fucked around with this message at 22:27 on Aug 18, 2016 |
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Aug 18, 2016 22:08
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" in-between moments of violence.
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Butt Ghost posted:Watching this is making me realize that I don't think I like Junko as a villain. Despair is such a vague catch-all motive, and her curazy being so unpredictable feels kind of lazy to me. She just does whatever the plot needs her to do. She just feels the fate on random people because they'll be important later. She doesn't work as a recurring character, only as a final boss that gets revealed at the end. That's why she feels so weak in these episodes.
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Aug 18, 2016 22:10
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Yeah the clarification of why I dislike Junko as a villian, myself, is that she just seems a bit too ridiculous and cartoony.
Meowywitch fucked around with this message at 22:30 on Aug 18, 2016 |
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Aug 18, 2016 22:27
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I think that Junko being crazy and ridiculous, etc, is the only reason she can be the villain behind all of this nonsense. Usually villains aren't very charismatic, at least not enough to convince completely otherwise sane people to throw away their humanity casually.
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Aug 18, 2016 22:32
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She's still better than most of the new characters they've introduced and reintroducing chiaki
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Aug 18, 2016 22:37
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Also despite the Ryota thing. I am becoming more and more convinced that Sakakura is the attacker.
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Aug 18, 2016 22:45
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For me, I think Junko was probably at her strongest characterization-wise in DR1 because that was before we learned of her influence's true expanse. She was a psychopath with crazy resources, but still seemed relatively realistic. Not to mention, there was the whole question of whether or not the world was actually destroyed and how it was left ambiguous by never showing the outside world in any way other than the videos she showed them. Once we started learning about her charismatic reach and her actual talent, and her deification, I think she lost some of what made her a good villain. She started feeling less realistic, more Mary Sue, able to accomplish anything through the craziest and most unlikely means. I dunno. I think I'll be quite happy if New DRv3 ditches her as the villain entirely.
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Aug 18, 2016 22:55
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Junko is definitely not the villain in DR3: Future. Presumably, the same villain of DR2 is the villain of DR3. But then again, I thought Chiaki was/is the villain in both so I dunno
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Aug 18, 2016 22:57
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Voted Worst Mom posted:Junko is definitely not the villain in DR3: Future. Presumably, the same villain of DR2 is the villain of DR3. But then again, I thought Chiaki was/is the villain in both so I dunno But Junko was the villain of DR2.
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Aug 18, 2016 23:07
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I think they are going a bit too ham with Junko. The taxi bomb when she showed up for example. They should show her being kooky and odd but blending in with class 78 and the school as a whole while juxtaposed with the curry torture and Izuru jailbreaks. Part of what made her so good in DR1 is that she was so unassuming until the end reveal of holy poo poo this girl is nuts.
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Aug 18, 2016 23:25
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Slokir posted:Part of what made her so good in DR1 is that she was so unassuming until the end reveal of holy poo poo this girl is nuts.
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Aug 18, 2016 23:28
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True but I was thinking of the photos of the year they spent together you get towards the end of the game where she with them smiling and no one is getting murdered or tortured they're just doing gym class or something. It implies she's capable of hiding the insanity at least partially.
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Aug 18, 2016 23:34
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One thing that's, again, lost in translation is Junko's main mode speech patterns (that is, when she didn't narrate last episode or switched on her menacing-low tone personality in this one), because it's a spot on imitation of cliche gyaru-speech, only turned up to 11. Megumi Toyoguchi is really doing an amazing job, especially considering that - as far as I understand how Japanese dubbing works - she likely recorded the Junko-Mukuro conversations in real time. I like how we see her first toying with the idea of theming executions around the subject's interests. She really shouldn't have cooked a whole pot of curry just to use the spoon, though.
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Aug 18, 2016 23:37
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Yinlock posted:That's kinda why I like her personally, she's a murderously insane narcissist who devastates the world based off of pure whimsy. There's no sympathetic backstory, no tragic hidden motive, she's just 100% loving nuts. I guess it helps that they don't show her in-person very often, so when they do she leaves a big impact because of how massively unstable she is. Definitely doesn't work as well when focused on like the anime is doing now though Only despair can save you! ONLY I CAN SAVE YOU! was pretty Butt Ghost fucked around with this message at 00:02 on Aug 19, 2016 |
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Aug 18, 2016 23:54
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You know, I don't think Junko really gets despair. Like, if you enjoy it it doesn't really count. I guess you could compare it with masochism, but the big difference is that despair involves a strong psychological element and more or less intrinsically requires that you not want it to happen. edit: This aside, I also don't really like Junko much as a villain. I think she would work okay if she was the type of crazy that mostly hid her madness from other people, but in this case she wears it on her sleeve and it feels really silly (in a bad way).
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Aug 18, 2016 23:55
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Ytlaya posted:edit: This aside, I also don't really like Junko much as a villain. I think she would work okay if she was the type of crazy that mostly hid her madness from other people, but in this case she wears it on her sleeve and it feels really silly (in a bad way). I'm pretty sure she does hide her madness from most other people, and does a fantastic job at it. It's just that in this series we haven't really seen her with anyone who's not already in or show wants to be in her inner circle. Oh, one more thing - the series never really mentioned Junko's superhuman analytical powers outside of Zero before, did it? It was just thrown out here without any exposition, which must be a little confusing to anyone who hasn't read the book, like the vast majority of the western audience.
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Aug 19, 2016 00:02
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Ytlaya posted:You know, I don't think Junko really gets despair. Like, if you enjoy it it doesn't really count.
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Aug 19, 2016 00:04
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MonsterEnvy posted:But Junko was the villain of DR2. No the villain of DR2 was Izuru
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Aug 19, 2016 00:08
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Junko is a character that worked in DR1 because she goes against what you thought you knew about her given her sisters act. When she comes out swinging with a crown and clipboard and all these wild personalities it just kind of works. It also helps that the personalities she was putting on display all seemed to mimic the characters that she trapped in some way. Her "cute" face was Aoi, Secretary being a Kiyoko/Togami match, etc. I actually didn't like Dangan Ronpa 2 for the longest time because "Hey it's moooore Junko look how wacky she is" when she didn't really add anything to the plot it felt like, and in DR0 (I think it was?) she winds up fighting off and killing a trained SHSL assassin just because she can (If I recall right anyway). As time goes on and the series gets more "anime" I've kind of just accepted that the "realism" of the first game was just a fluke and I should accept that everyone is actually a naruto except Naegi and Junko will somehow be the final boss every time. I'm already thinking that Junko is going to be Chisa somehow given the torture scene she was dressed just like her. I'm really curious if DRV3 or whatever it's called, the reboot, will actually genuinely drop her or if they'll somehow shoe-horn her in again. FPzero posted:Another small difference in the intro I noticed was that at the end, Chiaki was smiling. No clue what it means but I did see it. The biggest one I noticed other than the color shift was that everyone's eyes were red, except for Chiaki, and Chisa, whose eyes are closed during the sequence. Actually, I couldn't tell the color on the Imposter or Mitarai because they're placed far into the background of the shot but I assume they might be red too? Yeah, mentioned before but he totally has red eyes. Color dropper shows it's the same shade of red as everyone else 
ThisIsACoolGuy fucked around with this message at 00:14 on Aug 19, 2016 |
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Aug 19, 2016 00:11
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ThisIsACoolGuy posted:and in DR0 (I think it was?) she winds up fighting off and killing a trained SHSL assassin just because she can (If I recall right anyway). Wasn't that Mukuro disguised as Junko? edit: Added spoilers just in case
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Aug 19, 2016 00:14
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Ytlaya posted:Wasn't that Mukuro disguised as Junko? That might be the case, it's been a long time since I looked at it (it was around when Oren was translating it)
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Aug 19, 2016 00:15
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orenronen posted:I'm pretty sure she does hide her madness from most other people, and does a fantastic job at it. It's just that in this series we haven't really seen her with anyone who's not already in or show wants to be in her inner circle. That's the problem with Junko in this show so far. We know she can hide it, hell she hid it so well they locked her in a shelter designed to protect people from her. It just not showing any of it. Having balls to the wall, all crazy, all the time Junko is kinda funny but it makes her one dimensional to a ridiculous degree. I am glad they mentioned the SHSL analysis stuff and pretty much confirmed inflicting Despair is the only way she can feel anything at all but it was a bit out if no where. I imagine a lot of people who skipped or just don't know about Zero are really confused about that.
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Aug 19, 2016 00:15
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I've never read Zero but I know some of the details from stuff I've read over time. Considering Spike Chunsoft knows they have a Western audience, I'm surprised there hasn't been an official translation of Zero, especially given that its events are very important to the series plot. We've gotten "If" and the Hagakure story in UDG and neither of those are really considered canon stories, "If" especially.
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Aug 19, 2016 00:34
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Sakura had a big anime fight with a robot bear an eighth her size in the first game so I don't know how realistic it actually was
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Aug 19, 2016 00:34
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tbf sakura is a more believable powerhouse
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Aug 19, 2016 00:41
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I feel like people are missing what makes Junko really work. It's not that she's crazy about despair because it's a "lolsorandom" character quirk, she inherently believes despair is the only thing she has. Even from birth, she could tell that the world hated her and her sister, and she felt powerless to do anything about it. But rather than try to find a solution to fix this negative energy inside of her, she decides to embrace it and make it a part of her, since she thinks that believing in despair is her only way forward. It makes her existence incredibly self-defeating, since for example while she's legitimately upset that her sister is dead in DR1, those feelings just creates more of the despair she yearns for, which puts her in a harmful, never-ending loop. That all started to change once she became recognized for her talent in fashion, and then she became EXTREMELY dangerous. After years of growing up in piss-poor conditions with her sister, without even the strength to change her conditions or kill herself, she finds herself in a position where she's finally recognized for at least something. But because of all the years she spent in dire straits, she gotten to the point where she can't feel a single thing but despair, so she decides to use her newfound path to make everyone around her feel the same despair as she does. Spreading despair is her way of expressing her soul-crushing misery to everyone in the world, to let everyone know "I'm miserable, but I can't do anything about it," and to let everyone know the same exhilaration she felt when she realized being incapable of doing anything was perhaps the greatest feeling she's ever known. It really makes Junko an incredibly compelling villain to me, and it makes it all the more terrifying to actually see her spreading her despair to whoever catches her interest at that moment. Like with this latest Despair episode.
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Aug 19, 2016 00:58
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Ytlaya posted:Wasn't that Mukuro disguised as Junko? Zero is a prerequisite for this series, I don't think we should spoiler it. And no - Junko as Ryoko Otonashi fought and won against one of the Madarai octuplets (they all pretended to be one person, a SHSL Bodyguard). Junko's talent is described as being able to, given enough information about someone, predict with very high accuracy what they're going to do in any given situation. She used that effectively to basically crash Midarai under a building. One of his brothers soon took her out, however. Mukuro appears as Junko a couple of times in the book. She's always performing an exact script given to her by Junko ahead of time, designed to make Ryoko do exactly what Junko planned for her to do.
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Aug 19, 2016 01:19
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I'm more curious as to how they're going to fill six more episodes. I'd like to see how Junko drives each of the DR2 cast to despair like with Izuru, but considering the shifting dynamic to Chisa and Mitarai, I'm concerned that's going to be handwaved. I'd also like to see some time spent about the year with Naegi's class as well as her stint as Ryoko, but again, I'm not sure there's enough time to fit all these plots in without losing or underdeveloping some of them.
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Aug 19, 2016 01:48
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I will be amazed if the DR1 cast gets any significant focus on Despair side.
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Aug 19, 2016 01:52
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ApplesandOranges posted:I'm more curious as to how they're going to fill six more episodes Is it 12/12 or 10/10?
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Aug 19, 2016 02:08
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I'll take Junko torturing someone with curry, which is a lot more believable as something a psychopath teenager would do, over all the predictive mind games bullshit that happened in DR0. Her overpowering an adult isn't unbelievable considering it could have been her child soldier sister either.
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Aug 19, 2016 02:12
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Considering Future Arc episode 1 is listed as Episode 13 on Funimation's site, I'm guessing it's 12/12.
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Aug 19, 2016 02:14
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The only thing we are gonna see about the DR1 cast is probably a scene between Naegi and Mukuro, Kirigiri and her dad and something about Chihiro with Matsuda and the real Miaya since they were the ones that were involved in the creation of the New World Program from DR2, oh and Nanami will be involved in some way with Chihiro also since Chihiro created a AI based on Nanami. Also it looks like there will be a drama cd about how some of the DR1 people were scouted to the school so that's another focus on them.
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Aug 19, 2016 02:14
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Alfalfa The Roach posted:But because of all the years she spent in dire straits, she gotten to the point where she can't feel a single thing but despair, so she decides to use her newfound path to make everyone around her feel the same despair as she does. Spreading despair is her way of expressing her soul-crushing misery to everyone in the world, to let everyone know "I'm miserable, but I can't do anything about it," and to let everyone know the same exhilaration she felt when she realized being incapable of doing anything was perhaps the greatest feeling she's ever known. But she definitely experiences emotions other than despair as Ryoko Otonashi, so beyond that point she should at least have memories of what it's like to experience something other than despair.
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Aug 19, 2016 02:18
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junko should gently caress off
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Aug 19, 2016 02:23
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I never read Zero so I wasn't aware of Junko's true talent, but her logic sort of makes sense in that rather than becoming completely despondent and bored with everything being entirely predictable, she figured out how to keep things fresh and exciting: by despair. Part of Alfalfa's analysis is probably correct, but the boredom angle fits in too. Feeling despair or watching others in despair is the only way she can have any sort of feeling. Otherwise, she's as bored as Izuru becomes. It's almost Joker-ish in a way as they both seem to cause chaos that seems absolutely random (and in some cases is), but in other cases it all actually culminates to something larger, more elaborate and ultimately more devastating. But while the Joker aims toward creating "chaos," Junko aims towards creating "despair." Izuru very much seemed like a tabula rasa when Junko met him so if someone like Yukizome or even Komaeda met him first, something very different probably would have happened. I'm also fairly certain Junko and Izuzru's super analytic skills would be no match for Komaeda's luck.
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Aug 19, 2016 02:23
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If Mitarai turns out to be evil, I'm gonna be mildly upset. Also I guess this episode is where the budget went into.
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Aug 19, 2016 02:23
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FPzero posted:Considering Future Arc episode 1 is listed as Episode 13 on Funimation's site, I'm guessing it's 12/12. according to an at-x program listing the last despair episode is going to be some kind of special with the cast
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Aug 19, 2016 02:37
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Ytlaya posted:But she definitely experiences emotions other than despair as Ryoko Otonashi, so beyond that point she should at least have memories of what it's like to experience something other than despair. IIRC she didn't feel only despair as Ryoko because of the memory thing. Her analysis ability can't make everything boring because she can't remember anything for more than a few minutes. I don't think it's ever explicitly confirmed that her childhood was terrible and made her insane but it's implied by tidbits we hear in Zero that it was and she was like this from a young age, not to mention the fact her sister is a child solider. In fact, Junko claimed her childhood had nothing to do with it and their was no deep reason for what she does it's just who she is in DR1, but shes hardly a reliable source.
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Aug 19, 2016 02:40
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IceBorg posted:The only thing we are gonna see about the DR1 cast is probably a scene between Naegi and Mukuro, Kirigiri and her dad and something about Chihiro with Matsuda and the real Miaya since they were the ones that were involved in the creation of the New World Program from DR2, oh and Nanami will be involved in some way with Chihiro also since Chihiro created a AI based on Nanami. I don't think Chihiro created the Nanami AI (or the Junko ones, for that matter) himself. It's more like his research and the technology he created was used by others later to create the non-Alter Ego AIs. Same with Matsuda, of course - he died long before the world-level incident. Miaya is probably the only one who was directly involved in the project.
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Aug 19, 2016 02:45
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