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Air is lava! posted:It depends. Do they agree with that family? Either way, it's a lot. Nah, they're ultra left wing teachers who live outside of Boston. I imagine they both spent the last week biting their tongues so hard they tasted blood.
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Aug 19, 2016 21:01
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This was briefly mentioned pages ago, but what happened to Bob Dole in '96 that caused the RNC to cut bait on him? Simply down in the polls or was there something else that caused them to turn their backs on him?
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Aug 19, 2016 21:02
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zoux posted:Hmm I don't think the GOP hot takers today get that people weren't mad at Bush about Katrina because he didn't visit there. Yeah it couldn't be the fact that people were huddled together in the Super Dome with little supplies for months, that's just crazy talk! Republican hot takers also say that race relations were better under Bush
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Aug 19, 2016 21:02
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Augus posted:Yeah it couldn't be the fact that people were huddled together in the Super Dome with little supplies for months, that's just crazy talk! Obama's golfin right now!!!
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Aug 19, 2016 21:03
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zoux posted:The problem is we need to have a wave in a census year or we just get the House for 2 years. Not necessarily, if the wave gets us a couple SC nominations.
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Aug 19, 2016 21:03
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radical meme posted:The only demographic Chait can point to that supports his argument is voters under 30; the most unreliable voting portion of the population. His several references to Bernie is not a mistake in this regard and adds nothing substantive to his argument. If he's not making an ethical argument then why the hell is he even writing the article? If his argument is bassed on appearance and and not facts, then he's no better than the fear fluffers in the GOP screaming that what they believe is more important than facts. If he wants to write about how Clinton appears to voters, then do it and get down to the real reasons people hold that opinion of her, actually dissect and examine the facts, is the reputation deserved or just a right wing wet dream. I hate this type of lazy journalism. Chait was very hard on Bernie the entire primary. He is definitely not a huge Bernie fan. He is not making the point from an ethical stance because politics is not about ethics. Narratives and perceptions allow people to get away with specific things and limit their ability to act in other ways. He explicitly says in the article that it doesn't matter whether Hillary deserved the reputation or not; the polls show that "Honest / Trustworthy" is the one issue that she has major problems with. Strong Leader, Experienced, Qualified, etc are all good figures for her. Her only weak spots are "Honesty" and to a much smaller degree "Cares About People Like Me." Doing things that feed into those narratives is bad. Not recognizing them as an issue could lead to mistakes if they are a blind spot. Jimmy Carter was painted as feckless and accepting of American decline at the hands of foreign powers. Was it his fault that the helicopters crashed on the way to rescue the hostages and he had to give up? No, but it hit right in the narrative everyone had for him and was majorly damaging. Howard Dean had a reputation for being unprofessional and angry. The Dean scream played into that narrative perfectly and delegitimized him. Bush had a reputation as an idiot, so every time he slipped up, even innocent slips of the tongue, there was a youtube or an article about it. That is what Chait is saying. Hillary has a reputation and a narrative. Taking money for Wall Street speeches when you don't even need the money looks bad. Accepting money from foreign governments looks bad. Don't feed into narratives when you don't have to and realize your weaknesses is thesis of the article. I agree with you that it isn't turning into a huge issue because Trump is sinking himself, but just because a mistake doesn't make you lose, doesn't mean you shouldn't be aware of it.
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Aug 19, 2016 21:08
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https://twitter.com/tamarakeithNPR/status/766728164387217416 Honestly, without a hostile governor to help out, I don't see how this becomes a long term story for the GOP to use vs. Obama.
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Aug 19, 2016 21:08
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zoux posted:I dunno what a wave election that doesn't touch the statehouses looks like. State legislative elections are staggered though - some are this year, some are in midterm years, some are in off-years. There's no one wave that can fix this. E-Diddy posted:Doesn't the responsibility for drawing the state's congressional districts generally (except for the states that have independent commissions) fall with legislatures? I believe that is where the problem is. Yes, hence "gerrymandering is all about statehouses" - we need to win in state legislatures to fix gerrymandering. Having a Speaker Nancy Pelosi doesn't fix gerrymandering.
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Aug 19, 2016 21:12
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OddObserver posted:I think I realized the true reason Manafort quit: he was so inspired by Trump wanting to help with flooding in Louisiana, he simply felt obligated to come to aid of people dealing with similar problems in Moscow. https://twitter.com/BruceBartlett/status/766664844619776000 Somewhat overplayed, maybe
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Aug 19, 2016 21:12
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zoux posted:https://twitter.com/tamarakeithNPR/status/766728164387217416 trump definitely needs to keep running against obama instead of clinton
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Aug 19, 2016 21:12
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dicks assassin posted:This was briefly mentioned pages ago, but what happened to Bob Dole in '96 that caused the RNC to cut bait on him? Simply down in the polls or was there something else that caused them to turn their backs on him? He was never closer than 10 points to Clinton and after the conventions the gap got even wider. He never had any hope of winning.
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Aug 19, 2016 21:12
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dicks assassin posted:This was briefly mentioned pages ago, but what happened to Bob Dole in '96 that caused the RNC to cut bait on him? Simply down in the polls or was there something else that caused them to turn their backs on him? He was a horrible garbage candidate and basically everyone knew it. He got the nomination because he was an establishment candidate and it was his turn, which is how the GOP usually picks a nominee.
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Aug 19, 2016 21:13
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Warcabbit posted:https://twitter.com/BruceBartlett/status/766664844619776000 This isn't real.
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Aug 19, 2016 21:16
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Current floods: "This disaster is the worst to hit the United States since Superstorm Sandy, and we anticipate it will cost at least $30 million -- a number which may grow as we learn more about the scope and magnitude of the devastation." Katrina: "The storm surge also devastated the coasts of Mississippi and Alabama, making Katrina the most destructive and costliest natural disaster in the history of the United States, and the deadliest hurricane since the 1928 Okeechobee Hurricane. The total damage from Katrina is estimated at $108 billion" Katrina was literally over 300 times worse financially, and killed over a thousand people in Louisiana alone. If this weren't in Louisiana so it triggered some similarities in people's minds, we wouldn't be asking Obama to do anything. This is a natural disaster, yes, but it isn't the "Once every few decades" kind of disaster that Katrina was.
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Aug 19, 2016 21:16
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Antti posted:He was never closer than 10 points to Clinton and after the conventions the gap got even wider. He never had any hope of winning. Dole got a Simpsons Halloween episode during the Good Years, that's a better legacy than Trump will ever have
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Aug 19, 2016 21:17
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zoux posted:This isn't real. It's a pretty obvious joke reference to Corey leaving the campaign to go shill for Trump on CNN.
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Aug 19, 2016 21:19
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Bad Moon posted:Dole got a Simpsons Halloween episode during the Good Years, that's a better legacy than Trump will ever have God, how did The Simpsons go 13 seasons before making fun of Donald Trump?
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Aug 19, 2016 21:20
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Evil Fluffy posted:It's a pretty obvious joke reference to Corey leaving the campaign to go shill for Trump on CNN. Right, I'm just getting ahead of it because right now about 20 people in YCS are going WHOA BIG IF TRUE
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Aug 19, 2016 21:21
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theflyingorc posted:Current floods: Part of it is that the state has since been gutted infrastructure-wise by Jindal and is financially broke as all hell now, so you've got equipment and staffing problems compounding things. It's going to be interesting seeing how the state progresses through the aftermath because IIRC things were made apocalyptically bad by Jindal.
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Aug 19, 2016 21:23
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:
Yeah, I do agree that Hillary, according to polling, has a problem with how people perceive her. Chait is not the only person to pile on the Clinton Foundation is a criminal organization bandwagon and he says, there is nothing short of just closing it down completely that would satisfy anyone complaining about it; even then, people are going to complain about past donations and activities. In this day and age, I don't know how any serious candidate for President could ignore and not try to curry favor from Wall Street. Ignoring Wall Street would be a death blow to any serious Presidential candidate. I think Chait is just pointing out problems that really can't be resolved in the minds of people already predisposed to hate Hillary. So thank God for Trump.
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Aug 19, 2016 21:24
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Podesta Group is considering legal action vs. the NGO that was fronting for the pro-Russia Ukraine guys. https://twitter.com/RosieGray/status/766732184715718656 I was wondering if the Trump campaign would try to John Podesta into all of this when it finally breaks open, this is getting ahead of it.
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Aug 19, 2016 21:26
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For reals, the flooding isn't any worse than a particularly bad California wildfire in terms of cost and loss of life. I don't see why this warrants the presidents or the candidates attentions.
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Aug 19, 2016 21:26
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the central problem with Clinton as a candidate is that there is essentially nothing she can do to dispel the suspicion that surrounds her. she gets cleared of criminal wrongdoing by the FBI? well thats just further proof of her nefarious nature. she closes down the Clinton Foundation to avoid even the appearance of impropriety? well, who knows what shes trying to hide! is this entirely her fault? no, given the 30 year campaign on the part of the GOP to cultivate this cloud of suspicion. is it partially her fault? yeah pretty much - someone in her position should really be making the extra effort to avoid even the hint of impropriety. but in fairness, that might be asking a lot.
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Aug 19, 2016 21:27
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Goatman Sacks posted:For reals, the flooding isn't any worse than a particularly bad California wildfire in terms of cost and loss of life. I don't see why this warrants the presidents or the candidates attentions. Right but it's in Louisiana so there's a tenuous narrative connection there and the GOP loves some false rear end equivalencies.
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Aug 19, 2016 21:29
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paranoid randroid posted:the central problem with Clinton as a candidate is that there is essentially nothing she can do to dispel the suspicion that surrounds her. she gets cleared of criminal wrongdoing by the FBI? well thats just further proof of her nefarious nature. she closes down the Clinton Foundation to avoid even the appearance of impropriety? well, who knows what shes trying to hide! Obama spent 6-7 years trying to deal rationally with republicans, and the year or so that he stopped giving a poo poo have been the best of his presidency. Clinton won't make that mistake.
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Aug 19, 2016 21:31
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paranoid randroid posted:the central problem with Clinton as a candidate is that there is essentially nothing she can do to dispel the suspicion that surrounds her. she gets cleared of criminal wrongdoing by the FBI? well thats just further proof of her nefarious nature. she closes down the Clinton Foundation to avoid even the appearance of impropriety? well, who knows what shes trying to hide! Yeah, there's this bizarre dichotomy in the minds of a certain type of voter that automatically dismisses all the good things around Clinton as lies, and all the bad things around Trump as also lies. I mean, if you want to view candidates as the polar opposite of what your eyes and ears are telling you that's fine, nothing wrong with a little skepticism, but I sometimes wonder why the same people don't just see Barack Obama as a nice young Kansas-raised boy named Chet Studebaker with tousled blond hair and leftover muscle from his football quarterback days.
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Aug 19, 2016 21:31
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Goatman Sacks posted:Obama spent 6-7 years trying to deal rationally with republicans, and the year or so that he stopped giving a poo poo have been the best of his presidency. Clinton won't make that mistake. so people say. im less optimistic, but i may just be a little traumatized from the Reasonable Obama Years. id like to think she will play harder ball, but then again ive never lost money betting that a Clinton would disappoint me.
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Aug 19, 2016 21:32
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paranoid randroid posted:the central problem with Clinton as a candidate is that there is essentially nothing she can do to dispel the suspicion that surrounds her. she gets cleared of criminal wrongdoing by the FBI? well thats just further proof of her nefarious nature. she closes down the Clinton Foundation to avoid even the appearance of impropriety? well, who knows what shes trying to hide! The thing is that there is literally no action that Hillary can take that won't be immediately called out as suspicious since she's been so thoroughly trashed for the better part of three decades. She could visit a children's hospital and give every kid there a free playstation and fully pay their medical bills and it would still be reported that she's doing this because of her ties to anything tangentially related to it.
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Aug 19, 2016 21:32
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paranoid randroid posted:the central problem with Clinton as a candidate is that there is essentially nothing she can do to dispel the suspicion that surrounds her. she gets cleared of criminal wrongdoing by the FBI? well thats just further proof of her nefarious nature. she closes down the Clinton Foundation to avoid even the appearance of impropriety? well, who knows what shes trying to hide! It's sort of a catch-22. You are completely open and transparent? People pore over every tiny detail of everything you do until they can find something, anything, that can be blown up into a fake scandal. You try to keep people from getting close so they have nothing to harp on? You get lambasted as secretive and clearly corrupt. I think the former is probably the better idea in the long run, but I can clearly see why Clinton would decide that privacy was worth the reputation hit.
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Aug 19, 2016 21:32
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dicks assassin posted:This was briefly mentioned pages ago, but what happened to Bob Dole in '96 that caused the RNC to cut bait on him? Simply down in the polls or was there something else that caused them to turn their backs on him? Unfortunately for Dole, viagra would not be FDA approved until 1998, and Britney Spears would not turn 18 until 1999.
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Aug 19, 2016 21:33
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radical meme posted:So has anyone brought this up today: the latest hot take from Jonathan Chait at New York Magazine; Hillary Clinton’s Ethics Problems Are Worse Than She Understands? He's like, 0.9 on the Tom Friedman scale.
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Aug 19, 2016 21:33
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paranoid randroid posted:someone in her position should really be making the extra effort to avoid even the hint of impropriety. but in fairness, that might be asking a lot.  , so no, it isn't her fault.
Shrecknet fucked around with this message at 21:35 on Aug 19, 2016 |
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Aug 19, 2016 21:33
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Matlock Birthmark posted:This story is horrifying. But I just wanted to comment how impressive the black victim was after being stabbed in the hip and still running after the stabber and knocking him out. "White Power, White Supremacy!!!!" <is chased down and rendered unconscious by a 47 year old black man with a knife in his leg>
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Aug 19, 2016 21:33
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paranoid randroid posted:so people say. im less optimistic, but i may just be a little traumatized from the Reasonable Obama Years. id like to think she will play harder ball, but then again ive never lost money betting that a Clinton would disappoint me. IIRC Obama has said that Hillary warned him that republicans can't be trusted based upon her experiences with them when she tried healthcare reform and not listening to that is something he regrets.
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Aug 19, 2016 21:34
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Clinton shutting down the foundation as soon as she started running for president would be proof positive that the Clinton's didn't really care about the work the foundation was doing and they dumped it as soon as it wasn't useful. Obviously.
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Aug 19, 2016 21:35
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Dr. Angela Ziegler posted:Literally anything she does, including sitting on a couch, is the worst thing ever and proof she's a gun-grabbing UN muslim!!!!! I saw a car yesterday with a bumper sticker that literally just said "HILLARY WILL TAKE YOUR GUNS"
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Aug 19, 2016 21:37
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As eager as ostensible progressive leftists were to eat up every anti-Clinton piece published by Breitbart and Infowars during the primaries, I don't think this is a good faith issue that people can be persuaded on. Speaking of Breitbart https://twitter.com/BuzzFeedAndrew/status/766735547234738176
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Aug 19, 2016 21:37
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zoux posted:Speaking of Breitbart lmao
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Aug 19, 2016 21:40
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The right wing still complains about ACORN even though it shut down 8 years ago; do people really think shutting down the Clinton Foundation is going to shut down any of that conspiracy theorizing?
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Aug 19, 2016 21:43
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zoux posted:As eager as ostensible progressive leftists were to eat up every anti-Clinton piece published by Breitbart and Infowars during the primaries, I don't think this is a good faith issue that people can be persuaded on. Well, Bannon isn't wrong about this, is he?
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Aug 19, 2016 21:44
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