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orenronen posted:I don't think Chihiro created the Nanami AI (or the Junko ones, for that matter) himself. It's more like his research and the technology he created was used by others later to create the non-Alter Ego AIs. Same with Matsuda, of course - he died long before the world-level incident. Miaya is probably the only one who was directly involved in the project. But doesn't Nanami refer to Usami as sister and then mentions having a brother and a father at the end of chapter 5 in DR2? And in her free time events she mentions her father worked with computers, I mean she never says the father and brother are Chihiro and Alter-Ego but that's the only thing I can imagine. I mean yeah it could be just like you said and people just took Chihiro's technology to help in the project but in terms of Nanami the fact that she calls him her father makes me think he really did create her. And about the Junko AI thing I never got the idea that Chihiro made that, I always used that it was Izuro since he should also be very good at creating that.
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Aug 19, 2016 03:00
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IceBorg posted:And about the Junko AI thing I never got the idea that Chihiro made that, I always used that it was Izuro since he should also be very good at creating that. I thought it was Monaca because she's the robotics prodigy and both Kurokuma and Shirokuma were in Towa city helping advance her plans. Now I think about it though Izuro can easily be the boogyman behind the AI and lots of things since he can do pretty much anything.
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Aug 19, 2016 03:06
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Junko's AI claims that she was made while the real one was still alive so it could have been anyone really
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Aug 19, 2016 03:21
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IceBorg posted:I mean yeah it could be just like you said and people just took Chihiro's technology to help in the project but in terms of Nanami the fact that she calls him her father makes me think he really did create her. I don't think there's any contradiction there. Chihiro created the technology to take someone's personality parameters and make an AI out of them. AI Nanami is his metaphorical daughter even if he wasn't the one who did the actual data input.
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Aug 19, 2016 03:27
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so wait, Junko isn't only the Ultimate Fashionista and the Ultimate Despair, but also the Ultimate Logician? This is some Super King Crimson Level: Broken bullshit here.
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Aug 19, 2016 03:38
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Butt Ghost posted:so wait, Junko isn't only the Ultimate Fashionista and the Ultimate Despair, but also the Ultimate Logician? This is some Super King Crimson Level: Broken bullshit here. Junko was born with analytic superpowers, which led to her despair fetish. She also used them to get ahead in the Tokyo Gyaru subculture (a subculture whose leaders are famous for being charismatic influencers who got there by being very good at reading the state of things), and that's the "talent" under which Hope's Peak scouted her.
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Aug 19, 2016 03:43
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Slokir posted:I thought it was Monaca because she's the robotics prodigy and both Kurokuma and Shirokuma were in Towa city helping advance her plans. I don't think Monaca knew because her whole "Let's make a new Junko" wouldn't make sense if she knew Kurokuma was a AI Junko, they even reference that in the ending when AI Junko says the whole Monaca plan was stupid to begin with because the original Junko still existed.
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Aug 19, 2016 04:53
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Xelkelvos posted:Izuru very much seemed like a tabula rasa when Junko met him so if someone like Yukizome or even Komaeda met him first, something very different probably would have happened. I'm also fairly certain Junko and Izuzru's super analytic skills would be no match for Komaeda's luck. Izuru seemed like he was content to just 'bring hope' or whatever the researchers wanted, even though he seemed to find the idea boring. I wonder why they thought deleting every trace of his personality and leaving only a bored superhuman was necessary.  alcharagia posted:junko should gently caress off 
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Aug 19, 2016 05:34
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I can't believe she gave that man the ol' Spicy Spoon.
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Aug 19, 2016 05:39
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Hobgoblin2099 posted:I wonder why they thought deleting every trace of his personality and leaving only a bored superhuman was necessary. Sounded like he woke up screaming a few times before they resorted to that
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Aug 19, 2016 05:42
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IceBorg posted:But doesn't Nanami refer to Usami as sister and then mentions having a brother and a father at the end of chapter 5 in DR2? And in her free time events she mentions her father worked with computers, I mean she never says the father and brother are Chihiro and Alter-Ego but that's the only thing I can imagine. I thought that Alter Ego made AI Chiaki and Usami, Alter Ego can pretty easily imitate someone's personality given enough information so it wouldn't be a stretch for him to make a full-on AI like that. Usami at least was made for a really specific purpose so she couldn't have appeared until post-DR1, no idea where AI Chiaki came from though. Or the Junko AI, for that matter. That might just be a weird Monokuma thing. EDIT: Hobgoblin2099 posted:I wonder why they thought deleting every trace of his personality and leaving only a bored superhuman was necessary. Hope's Peak is basically Aperture Science for talented teenagers. They're really, really obsessed with talent and don't consider that fostering that talent and nothing else leads to a bunch of easily-manipulated broken people who are really good at one thing. Also I think someone responsible is DR0's protagonist who is the Ultimate Neurologist and also a complete rear end in a top hat. Yinlock fucked around with this message at 06:03 on Aug 19, 2016 |
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Aug 19, 2016 05:56
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Hobgoblin2099 posted:Izuru seemed like he was content to just 'bring hope' or whatever the researchers wanted, even though he seemed to find the idea boring. Yep she's still perfect
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Aug 19, 2016 07:34
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Too pure for this hope-filled world
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Aug 19, 2016 12:48
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I kind of don't see how you can dislike Junko too much and even like the franchise. She embodies it in a lot of ways. I mean, she literally is Monokuma, who is in no uncertain terms the series mascot. Intense and overwrought sometimes. Flighty, flaky, and impossible to take serious the rest of the time. Am I talking about the character Enoshima Junko or Danganronpa itself?
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Aug 19, 2016 14:53
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Danganronpa is a good series UDG aside and Junko is pretty good too. Danganronpa 2 was a good game. This has been a good show, first few episodes of Future notwithstanding. There's my hot critique. Also I wish we could just get a 200-episode slice of life anime with the DR2 cast like the first two episodes of Despair were.
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Aug 19, 2016 19:13
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OnimaruXLR posted:I kind of don't see how you can dislike Junko too much and even like the franchise. She embodies it in a lot of ways. I mean, she literally is Monokuma, who is in no uncertain terms the series mascot. i'll fully admit my relationship with this series is complex, confusing, and bizarre in that even though i call myself a fan of this series i find it much easier to complain about it than talk about what i like about it when i'm not recommending it to someone or talking to someone going through the games for the first time except for nagito who is a precious child, and deserves nothing but praise for being the best character
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Aug 19, 2016 19:48
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basically taking junko enoshima on a line-by-line basis when she's actually present in the games? yeah she's funny and good. i just hate this giant mythos that's been built up around her and how she's actually a superhuman analyst antichrist who can destroy the world by just being super ultra. i especially hate dangan ronpa 0 and ultra despair girls for largely this reason though i assure you ultra despair girls being a poo poo game doesn't help. this is the primary reason i want hope's peak academy to gently caress off
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Aug 19, 2016 19:54
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alcharagia posted:i'll fully admit my relationship with this series is complex, confusing, and bizarre in that even though i call myself a fan of this series i find it much easier to complain about it than talk about what i like about it when i'm not recommending it to someone or talking to someone going through the games for the first time you're just a tsundere.
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Aug 19, 2016 19:54
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A lot of the poo poo you dislike actually started in DR2, even in DR0 her nonsense was on a more personalized scale and was nowhere near the level that DR2 went with saying she literally leads the world and has millions of dudes ready to roll at her beck and call and who also want to gently caress and graft her body parts into themselves.
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Aug 19, 2016 21:40
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yes, that's why i said "especially hate," because dr2 has that but it also has good stuff that i like and is good.
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Aug 19, 2016 21:46
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DR2 also had stuff I like, but I would not call it good. I wouldn't call it terrible either, but it is an incredibly disappointing game.
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Aug 19, 2016 21:49
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Baal posted:DR2 also had stuff I like, but I would not call it good. I wouldn't call it terrible either, but it is an incredibly disappointing game. my bad- "good stuff that i like and is good" is a singular block. the "and is good" is describing the good stuff.
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Aug 19, 2016 21:50
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I know what you're saying, shut up.
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Aug 19, 2016 21:50
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well, ok?
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Aug 19, 2016 21:57
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fractalairduct posted:I read a probably-crappy translation of it, so I can't say for sure either way. I suppose I could also be misremembering. Well you DID call him Izuku...  voltcatfish posted:i'm also a fan of cliched love stories so i'm looking forward to real nanami and izuru reuniting in the final ep she's dead as heck, jim. Cuntellectual fucked around with this message at 23:03 on Aug 19, 2016 |
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Aug 19, 2016 22:59
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I actually really love dr2 so I dunno, but all of this has been really good. And especially Junko because I don't see how any one else could single-handedly destroy everything. There's no super secret council of idiots pretending this was all according to their plan. This is just someone who wants to kill everyone and has too much influence living out a fantasy and I'm glad of it.
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Aug 19, 2016 23:05
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Butt Ghost posted:Watching this is making me realize that I don't think I like Junko as a villain. Despair is such a vague catch-all motive, and her curazy being so unpredictable feels kind of lazy to me. She just does whatever the plot needs her to do. She just feels the fate on random people because they'll be important later. I liked her when she was the villain of the first game and thats about it, because it foreshadowed her being the villain a bit and waved away the dumb stuff with "does it REALLY matter?" Junko sucks and i hope the DRv3 villain dunks on her somehow. OnimaruXLR posted:I kind of don't see how you can dislike Junko too much and even like the franchise. She embodies it in a lot of ways. I mean, she literally is Monokuma, who is in no uncertain terms the series mascot. I like the other characters and seeing them interact for the most part, as well as trying to figure out the greater mystery behind their situation as they try to escape it. The villain that facilitates the situation is ultimately not that important. Kinda like 999, imo. Cuntellectual fucked around with this message at 23:23 on Aug 19, 2016 |
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Aug 19, 2016 23:08
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The villain that facilitates the situation is actually super important and your trying to divorce them from that does not change that they are the sole reason everything has happened.
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Aug 19, 2016 23:28
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The way I felt about DR2 was that the highs were higher and the lows were lower compared to the first game. Chapters 1 and 2 were good, 3 was bad because of the motive and trial, 4 was mostly ok but the motive was really lovely and then 5 and 6 were a wild ride that I blitzed through late one night. I like it a lot more than the first game though because there were so many improvements in terms of gameplay, quality of life features, and interesting new mechanics. I also like the cast of 2 much more than the cast of 1. I actually had strong opinions on characters compared to the first game and legitimately feared every approaching investigation and trial because my favorites had to die; it was just a matter of when or how. Junko is a great villain in the first game, but I think that was her peak. I've felt like every subsequent showing has cheapened her character either making her more crazy, less realistic, or more all-powerful and it hasn't really helped. Fast-forward to the show right now and as someone here put it, she's basically switched on to Crazy the whole time and suddenly has the ability to manipulate or understand Fate. Like, I'm all in following this thing to the end, but I get the feeling that somehow it's going to STILL be her influence (maybe even directly, where Monaca is indirect) causing whatever's happening in the Future Arc even though she's been dead for two games now and at least a year, maybe more in-universe.
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Aug 19, 2016 23:55
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Honestly part of why I'd be looking forward to them segueing in to interacting with the DR1 class, if they ever did that, would that we'd have to see her actually acting like a normal person for a whole year. Mukuro too (did the DR1 cast ever figure out they were twins then?).
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Aug 20, 2016 00:34
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FPzero posted:The way I felt about DR2 was that the highs were higher and the lows were lower compared to the first game. Chapters 1 and 2 were good, 3 was bad because of the motive and trial, 4 was mostly ok but the motive was really lovely and then 5 and 6 were a wild ride that I blitzed through late one night. I like it a lot more than the first game though because there were so many improvements in terms of gameplay, quality of life features, and interesting new mechanics. I also like the cast of 2 much more than the cast of 1. I actually had strong opinions on characters compared to the first game and legitimately feared every approaching investigation and trial because my favorites had to die; it was just a matter of when or how.
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Aug 20, 2016 01:00
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ApplesandOranges posted:Honestly part of why I'd be looking forward to them segueing in to interacting with the DR1 class, if they ever did that, would that we'd have to see her actually acting like a normal person for a whole year. Mukuro too (did the DR1 cast ever figure out they were twins then?). Here's the thing, though - I suspect her general attitude will be the same and all she suppresses is talking about despair and her plans (and killing people, I guess). Junko's main mode is exactly what I expect an SHSL gyaru to act like in this universe given how most other characters talk and act - gyarus in the real world are stereotypically loud and vulgar and sometimes seen as teen delinquents. Her comment about enjo kosai, for example, wouldn't be out of place even if she wasn't using someone's eyeball to break into a secure location at the time.
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Aug 20, 2016 01:13
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Did Tsumiki even have any fans? I don't know how the cast stacks up in terms of popularity (I know Kirigiri's in the top 10 or something) but I imagine she'd be near the bottom rung.
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Aug 20, 2016 01:34
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She has a lot of art on pixiv, but idk if that actually translates to character popularity. Even going by that standard the main 3 are the ones with the most art too.
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Aug 20, 2016 01:35
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Danganronpa 2s biggest problem is that having people run around on a big island doesnt really lend itself to mystery solving - chapter 4 being in an enclosed space made me realize how much better that type of setup is for the murder cases. having people going around the island and half the locations not even being relevant just doesnt work for me.
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Aug 20, 2016 01:35
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Also how does the DR1 cast feel like they don't have a sense of camaraderie when so many chapters in the game are about bringing the characters closer together and even early chapters start unify certain characters more until they become a unit. I mean gently caress, the remains of the DR1 cast is established by their absolute trust in one another except Hagakure who is just a punching bag.
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Aug 20, 2016 01:37
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haha yes mikan is extremely popular
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Aug 20, 2016 01:42
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I trust in Hagakure.
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Aug 20, 2016 01:47
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I liked Mikan and was sad to see her as the murderer in Chapter 3, doubly so when it turned out the only reason she did what she did was because of the stupid Despair Disease thing. I was in the middle of her Free Times and it seemed like all she needed was a friend that didn't want to beat her up or take advantage of her.
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Aug 20, 2016 01:52
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orenronen posted:Her comment about enjo kosai, for example, wouldn't be out of place even if she wasn't using someone's eyeball to break into a secure location at the time. Speaking of which, it was interesting reading in that article you linked how the association between gyaru and enjo kosai was basically a myth and most girls who did enjo kosai (which was probably heavily overstated to begin with) were more the outcast type.
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Aug 20, 2016 02:07
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