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Weatherman posted:
He sure liked getting into weed, yes. (Vote Gary Johnson to end the War on Drugs!)
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Aug 19, 2016 06:13
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Curvature of Earth posted:Wasn't that a favoured turn of phrase of a previous lolbertarian poster? He sure liked getting into weed, yes. (Vote Gary Johnson to end the War on Drugs!) [/quote] Different one
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Aug 19, 2016 06:15
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Literally The Worst posted:Different one Sorry, they sort of blend together after a while.
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Aug 19, 2016 06:21
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Nitrousoxide posted:Okay then, let me posit this analysis of the research on the subject: Have you really not gone through the circles of arguing Neumark+Wascher v Card+Krueger before? That poo poo is so last decade. Basically that was back when people were still seriously considering whether or not minimum wage increases could have a seriously negative impact on unemployment and then there were several years of more rigorous research by people who actually know what the gently caress they're doing and it turned out that no, actually the minimum wage really doesn't have much effect at all on unemployment.
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Aug 19, 2016 08:17
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Nitrousoxide posted:Well the opportunity cost would make that a bad move there for the doctor. But you needn't make such a drastic example. Consider a 20k/yr janitor that is highly motivated and a self starter versus a 15k/yr which requires much more management because her or she is not very motivated. If the floor is 20k them the 15k/yr janitor will likely not find a job. So would you say that in a just world, wages would reflect the value of a worker's labor?
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Aug 19, 2016 12:34
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Well that argument ended exactly the way everyone expected it would. Let's see what the libertarian web is up to!Lew Rockwell and Ron Paul Together Again in DC posted:Ron Paul and Lew Rockwell Here's the speaker list. I don't recognize any of the names beyond the headliners, but maybe someone else will. Speaking of Lew Rockwell, let's see what that old bigot has going on on his site! Today's Headlines posted:How To Survive an SJW Attack Walter Block whining about Cultural Marxism, a doctor hocking "natural remedies" for serious diseases, Area 51 conspiracy theories, and Vox loving Day. Libertarianism! edit: "How to survive a Robocop attack." I love you, filter. Goon Danton fucked around with this message at 12:52 on Aug 19, 2016 |
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Aug 19, 2016 12:35
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VitalSigns posted:This NitrousOxide guy hasn't shown he's unwilling to consider good-faith arguments or evidence like jrod did, so abusing him for no reason makes this thread really tiresome to read imo. Yeah, he hasn't done anything yet to warrant treating him like absolute poo poo or calling him a "human being". We gotta be better than that.
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Aug 19, 2016 14:06
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Goon Danton posted:Well that argument ended exactly the way everyone expected it would. Let's see what the libertarian web is up to! I'm new to DC! Anyone want to sneak in and cover this with me? I want to learn to survive a robocop attack!
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Aug 19, 2016 14:13
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TL;DR: go quietly or there will be trouble.
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Aug 19, 2016 14:34
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WrenP-Complete posted:I'm new to DC! Anyone want to sneak in and cover this with me? Just say you're there to cover the event for your blog. If they try to ask any more questions, ask them if you're being detained. You'll blend in perfectly. Goon Danton fucked around with this message at 15:35 on Aug 19, 2016 |
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Aug 19, 2016 14:42
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WrenP-Complete posted:I want to learn to survive a robocop attack! Directives 1. Enforce the law. 2. Protect the innocent. 3. Punish micro-aggressions against minorities. 4. Blog about feminism. 5. Gaslight innocent right-wing pundits.
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Aug 19, 2016 14:56
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Literally The Worst posted:with apologies to infrateal, rip in piss hahahahahaha Goon Danton posted:Donating Money to a University? love this title
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Aug 19, 2016 16:14
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QuarkJets posted:Have you really not gone through the circles of arguing Neumark+Wascher v Card+Krueger before? That poo poo is so last decade. I only really lurk in this thread, but those names were thrown around so goddamned much that I get irrationally angry every time I read them. "But... but... Neumark & Wascher says..." all the drat time.
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Aug 19, 2016 16:34
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QuarkJets posted:Have you really not gone through the circles of arguing Neumark+Wascher v Card+Krueger before? That poo poo is so last decade. Basically that was back when people were still seriously considering whether or not minimum wage increases could have a seriously negative impact on unemployment and then there were several years of more rigorous research by people who actually know what the gently caress they're doing and it turned out that no, actually the minimum wage really doesn't have much effect at all on unemployment. Additionally aggregate meta-analysis is not proof that a specific minimum wage increase would have negative impact on employment; we are discussing specific policy in the US at a specific point in time, not an abstract infinite increase in wage in a perfect control country where wages are set at current optimum economic equilibrium.
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Aug 19, 2016 17:40
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Goon Danton posted:Just say you're there to cover the event for your blog. If they try to ask any more questions, ask them if you're being detained. You'll blend in perfectly. I'm a young blonde woman. Er... female. I'm not sure if this will help me blend in or just get in free....
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Aug 19, 2016 18:03
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WrenP-Complete posted:I'm a young blonde woman. Er... female. I'm not sure if this will help me blend in or just get in free.... They'd probably give you your own panel if they thought you agreed with them.
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Aug 19, 2016 18:15
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Nitrousoxide posted:Well the opportunity cost would make that a bad move there for the doctor. But you needn't make such a drastic example. Consider a 20k/yr janitor that is highly motivated and a self starter versus a 15k/yr which requires much more management because her or she is not very motivated. If the floor is 20k them the 15k/yr janitor will likely not find a job. A 20K/yr janitor may very well be more motivated to do the job because he's getting 5K more than 15K. What you're being paid speaks information to the employee. This is why slaves had to be whipped to do work. Plantation owners thought blacks were lazy and stupid, but there was no incentive for them to work hard or intelligently.
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Aug 19, 2016 20:15
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WrenP-Complete posted:I'm a young blonde woman. Er... female. I'm not sure if this will help me blend in or just get in free.... just find yourself a bitcoin t-shirt and they'll naturally assume that you're one of them and might possibly even tone down the MRA poo poo (but probably not)
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Aug 19, 2016 20:24
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WrenP-Complete posted:I'm a young blonde woman. Er... female. I'm not sure if this will help me blend in or just get in free....
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Aug 19, 2016 20:30
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theshim posted:reject any and all offers to mix labor with you I REJECT YOUR OFFER OF JOINDER!
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Aug 19, 2016 20:39
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WrenP-Complete posted:I REJECT YOUR OFFER OF JOINDER! When they refuse to let you leave a conversation just ask if you are being detained. Those are words of power.
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Aug 19, 2016 22:38
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What do you think is the best way to achieve a GBI? What US political party do you think would be most amenable to pushing for one? What should we do in the interim to help the millions of people in poverty due to decades of declining wages? It seems to me that even if an increased minimum wage did lead to an unemployment explosion, we might actually need such a crisis to motivate the oligarchy to give the working class a real safety net.
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Aug 19, 2016 22:46
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The best hope for mincome lies in another depression and scientific breakthroughs allowing us to clone/zombify FDR.
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Aug 19, 2016 23:06
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It'll happen when the poor are mostly jobless despite an otherwise strong economy, when people are just about pissed off enough to eat the rich. Then suddenly a mincome will be OK
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Aug 19, 2016 23:40
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Raising the minimum wage leads to inflation. Inflation leads to hyperinflation. Hyperinflation leads to Nazism. Decreasing the minimum wage must therefore lead to deflation. Therefore the only way to prevent Nazism is to enslave the poor.
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Aug 19, 2016 23:43
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White Coke posted:Raising the minimum wage leads to inflation. Inflation leads to hyperinflation. Hyperinflation leads to Nazism. Decreasing the minimum wage must therefore lead to deflation. Therefore the only way to prevent Nazism is to enslave the poor. Maybe you could sweep them all up and take them to camps
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Aug 20, 2016 00:14
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QuarkJets posted:It'll happen when the poor are mostly jobless despite an otherwise strong economy, when people are just about pissed off enough to eat the rich. Then suddenly a mincome will be OK Pretty much. Mincome in the US is going to be the last resort of oligarchs terrified that the masses are about to start decorating the streetlights with rich necks in slow nooses.
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Aug 20, 2016 00:14
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CountFosco posted:A 20K/yr janitor may very well be more motivated to do the job because he's getting 5K more than 15K. What you're being paid speaks information to the employee. This is why slaves had to be whipped to do work. Plantation owners thought blacks were lazy and stupid, but there was no incentive for them to work hard or intelligently. I like your username and The Woman in White was pretty good
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Aug 20, 2016 00:18
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VitalSigns posted:Yes, metastudies have been done on the minimum wage. If you look at all of the studies that have been done on minimum wage and employment effects, the results cluster around 0, with studies of greater statistical power showing effects closer to zero So, having had time to look this and other references over it looks like modest increases in the minimum wage to around 50-60% of the median will have very few, if any negative affects on the employment rate. Floors above that are unstudied largely so any affect that may be present but within the error bars of a study could break out and be visible. The Seattle example is one case study the could provide info on the effects of larger increases. I've changed my view. I would support an increase to 60% of the median wage with the caveat that if we can get some more info from studies on larger increases from local minimum wage levels I would support a larger increase. $15 would be around 90% of the median so I couldn't support that without more data. Nitrousoxide fucked around with this message at 01:07 on Aug 20, 2016 |
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Aug 20, 2016 00:32
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Be honest. You couldn't support that because it gets in the way of creating corporate indenture in the form of poverty too great to bear the risk of refusing unreasonable working conditions or compensation offers.
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Aug 20, 2016 00:33
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Liquid Communism posted:Be honest. You couldn't support that because it gets in the way of creating corporate indenture in the form of poverty too great to bear the risk of refusing unreasonable working conditions or compensation offers. No?
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Aug 20, 2016 00:41
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Seriously guys, he isn't jrod, so stop treating him like he is. Or at least don't be so painfully unfunny about it.
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Aug 20, 2016 00:45
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Who What Now posted:Seriously guys, he isn't jrod, so stop treating him like he is. Or at least don't be so painfully unfunny about it. Deep down inside, though, aren't we all at least a little bit jrode?
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Aug 20, 2016 00:56
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Who What Now posted:Seriously guys, he isn't jrod, so stop treating him like he is. Or at least don't be so painfully unfunny about it. gently caress you the infrateal quote is always appropriate here
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Aug 20, 2016 00:58
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come on, jrod would never have posted:...I've changed my view. ... so credit where it's due
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Aug 20, 2016 01:00
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Mornacale posted:What do you think is the best way to achieve a GBI? What US political party do you think would be most amenable to pushing for one? What should we do in the interim to help the millions of people in poverty due to decades of declining wages? A universal basic income would pretty much only be politically feasible with a wealth tax, and wealth taxes are very difficult to implement at the rates needed to offset a major income tax hike because of liquidity problems. EITC expansion and minimum wage increases are the way to go until either the American middle class ceases to exist or we've done a socialism.
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Aug 20, 2016 01:12
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CountFosco posted:A 20K/yr janitor may very well be more motivated to do the job because he's getting 5K more than 15K. What you're being paid speaks information to the employee. This is why slaves had to be whipped to do work. Plantation owners thought blacks were lazy and stupid, but there was no incentive for them to work hard or intelligently. This is probably  but I thought the racist stereotype of the "lazy and stupid" black man came during reconstruction, when almost all of the former slaves straight up refused to go back to work for the plantations where they were slaves, getting paid, well, slave wages, if paid at all. Basically, "You won't voluntarily submit yourself to the same conditions you were kept under while slaves? You lazy, stupid [redacted]!"Essentially, the modern Libertarian's view on the poor 
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Aug 20, 2016 01:26
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YF19pilot posted:This is probably Predates that actually. There's an odd chicken-and-egg thing, but it was believed widely enough under slavery that a passive-aggressive form of resistance for slaves was to just gently caress up or slack off in stereotypically expected ways, because the master couldn't get too mad at them, they're just lazy stupid blacks after all. This had the unfortunate side effect of reinforcing the stereotype but it's not like hard work got you ahead as a slave, so.
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Aug 20, 2016 01:43
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That's the result of the refusal to even attempt to keep the minimum wage in line with inflation that you're advocating. That is literally what the policy of 'oh, we should raise it but only by less than 50%' is advocating for when the minimum wage is so far below a living wage as it stands. Here's a nice calculator that breaks down the factors it uses to figure a county-by-county living wage country wide : http://livingwage.mit.edu/
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Aug 20, 2016 02:01
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Liquid Communism posted:Pretty much. Mincome in the US is going to be the last resort of oligarchs terrified that the masses are about to start decorating the streetlights with rich necks in slow nooses. This is true for basically every single social/economic reform anywhere. We only get things when the rich have an existential fear that not throwing us these breadcrumbs would cost them much more than what ever little labour law or social service the peasants are demanding this time.
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Aug 20, 2016 02:06
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