|
Was Bleach good? This poll is closed. |
|||
|---|---|---|---|
| yah |
|
57 | 21.03% |
| nah |
|
214 | 78.97% |
| Total: | 271 votes | ||
|
Doresh posted:I know I keep harping on Mayuri, but in a world where Hell exists and can sneak attack you, how come Mayuri is still around? I guess the one true way to kill him for good is to bonk him on the head with a zanpakuto? oh, that's an easy one. see, they keep on talking about reincarnation and such. sword ghosts grab the minority of dead people who don't pass on and send them to the infinite slum town, where they supposedly double die a few centuries later. they also double kill skull ghosts, making them also pass on like normal dead people unless they were nasty humans in which case they go to hell. only bad people who don't pass on, then hang around long enough to become skull ghosts, and are finally killed by a magic sword go to hell so i think we can safely ignore that nonsense. kubo sure did! but anyway, dead people "pass on" to where? i figure there is an actual afterlife which is completely unrelated to sword ghosts. sword ghosts are just magic ghosts who found some prime meta-physical real estate which wasn't being used and then started squatting there. remember, magic swords are artificial. they are not an intrinsic quality of magic ghosts, which do occur naturally. those magic swords are also the only way any ghosts are sent to ss. the natural process is that dead people either pass on, or hang around and become either hollows or food for hollows. whenever sword ghosts "save" a lost soul, they are instead trapped in a version of limbo. their version of limbo, to be more precise. they don't save anyone. they gain more peasants to rule over, which has since become justified as being part of the universal balance. they kill hollows, but only when hollows get in the way of gathering more ghost peasants. ss certainly never sends its massive forces into hueco mundo to thin out the number of hollows normally. they just squat in their city, sending out their weakest members to endlessly gather more peasants, peasants they have no need or desire for. the entire process has no purpose. if this is true, then where do quincies figure into it? sword ghosts have only existed for marginally longer than quincies. so, given that sword ghosts are total assholes and prone to making poo poo up, that was when they invented the soul cycle bullshit as an excuse to wipe out their competitors. there is also how the supposedly all-powerful and cosmically significant soul king is a mindless prisoner, and he may be completely unrelated to sword ghosts. ukitake swiped one of his hands, but again, the guy is comatose. he might predate the sword ghosts, he might not. we don't know jack poo poo about him or his supposed role. i don't think anyone does. the sword ghosts certainly seem more like captors than protectors, though. but anyway, to answer your original question, mayuri doesn't go to hell because sword ghosts are an unnatural existence. they exist outside of the cycle of reincarnation, assuming such a thing even exists. he was likely born a ghost baby. he has never been judged by the universe because the universe does not recognize his existence, or his peers because his peers are enormous assholes.
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2016 14:32
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 10, 2024 16:41 |
|
|
really though the setting is nonsense because kubo didn't think things through
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2016 14:33
|
|
|
Namtab posted:I'm not going to read a fanfic I almost wrote one in the innocent days when things were still fun. Dodged the bullet there. Serious Frolicking posted:really though the setting is nonsense because kubo didn't think things through The setting basically stops around halfway through. Any attempts at fleshing the setting out afterwards just come across as weird, like the Soul King or that blacksmith guy. Serious Frolicking posted:but anyway, to answer your original question, mayuri doesn't go to hell because sword ghosts are an unnatural existence. they exist outside of the cycle of reincarnation, assuming such a thing even exists. he was likely born a ghost baby. he has never been judged by the universe because the universe does not recognize his existence, or his peers because his peers are enormous assholes. Unnatural existence? Making poo poo up about the circle of life and death to further your own cause? Being a giant douchebag? Crap, I think Mayuri is the Elder God from Legacy of Kain. Now that's some blast from the past (o_O) Doresh fucked around with this message at 15:56 on Aug 21, 2016 |
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2016 15:51
|
|
|
Spiderdrake posted:Bleach is generally at its best, I think, when it isn't writing ultra seriously and is willing to have a bit of a laugh. Toshiro was always my favorite captain even though he never got to actually do anything that cool, because Hyourinmaru is fuckin' rad and I liked the idea of the ultra-serious child prodigy captain.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2016 16:26
|
|
|
that child prodigy is over a century old
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2016 16:39
|
|
|
Serious Frolicking posted:that child prodigy is over a century old Wasn't everyone else in Soul Society like a millennia old?
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2016 16:41
|
|
|
Spiritus Nox posted:Wasn't everyone else in Soul Society like a millennia old? no, just a few centuries at most. ss has only existed for about a thousand years, after all.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2016 16:43
|
|
|
Talking about ages or passage of time in Bleach is pointless. Only madness lies on that path. (Though it would have been pretty funny if those 10 years were all it took Toshiro to upgrade from a Hitsugaya into a Mifune.)
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2016 17:11
|
|
|
Spiritus Nox posted:Wasn't everyone else in Soul Society like a millennia old? I had a post on this....
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2016 17:12
|
|
|
Thoren posted:The Flamenco guitar ost they did for the Hueco Mundo arc was awesome. Better than Bleach deserved. Early bleach anime was all style and I think a big part of that was the rad mood set by the art and music. Even the vaunted ss arc suddenly became everything takes place in broad daylight and we just recycle battle tracks over and over.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2016 20:20
|
|
|
So when do we get the spinoff Manga with the kids?
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2016 20:22
|
|
|
Kortel posted:So when do we get the spinoff Manga with the kids? Probably never
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2016 20:25
|
|
|
things that get canned don't get spinoffs.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2016 20:26
|
|
|
I may be giving Kubo more credit than he deserves, cause he is probably just an idiot, but rereading some old chapters, I think that another reason why the 1000 years arc sucked so bad was because the anime was cancelled. Chapters like Yumichika vs Chtulu's Horn or Hachi vs Barragan were actually really short and were resolved in 2 chapters. Then, the anime department expanded those into full fledged fights. Without the anime to complement the fights, Kubo probably thought people would feel cheated if the fights were resolved quickly, so he dragged them on to show as much as possible. Of course in practice he ended up showing very little and half the chapter's pages were dedicated to shocked expressions when the opposite side rear end pulled a new power up counter. lezard_valeth fucked around with this message at 20:43 on Aug 21, 2016 |
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2016 20:36
|
|
|
Or maybe the fights just dragged on for the sake of dragging on. I mean, they told him that he can make one more arc, but they didn't tell him how long it was allowed to be. If they'd given him a deadline from the start, he might've been able to actually wrap things up in a satisfying fashion*. Not giving the Vandenreich a theme that requried 26+ bad guy slots would've been a huge improvement. *) I hope this doesn't come across as "It's not Kubo's fault". It was idiotic for him to assume he can get away with a final arc that would take at least 5 years to properly conclude. Doresh fucked around with this message at 21:12 on Aug 21, 2016 |
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2016 21:09
|
|
|
Doresh posted:Or maybe the fights just dragged on for the sake of dragging on. I mean, they told him that he can make one more arc, but they didn't tell him how long it was allowed to be. naruto did it
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2016 21:15
|
|
|
Kild posted:naruto did it Well, Kishi never found himself in a "Anime cancelled, you better finish this story with the next arc"-situation. Naruto is so ridiculously successful the anime can get away with years of filler. In a row. I guess not throwing out the entire setting for 1-vs-1 duels until the end of time paid off. (And least that's what I think happened. Never really read it tbh. People must really love dem headbands.) Doresh fucked around with this message at 21:26 on Aug 21, 2016 |
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2016 21:22
|
|
|
naruto's final arc dragged on way too long even without shoving kaguya in there, but it was still following up on plot threads that had been progressing through the entire manga. by contrast, bleach's final arc just pulled a bunch of dudes out of nowhere and then retconned poo poo to try to make them seem significant. saying that ywach was indirectly the cause of ichigo's mom's death was meaningless when ichigo barely seemed to remember she died. kubo even did a flashback to try to make us care about her, but really i liked uryuu's mom way more.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2016 21:30
|
|
|
I mean, let's be fair, Naruto didn't get as bad as Bleach until arguably the final few chapters, but even Kubo never introduced a magic spell that effortlessly revived every named character that had ever died and several characters only spoken of in legend, gave them unlimited energy and instant regeneration and made them essentially immortal and unstoppable so they could heavily influence the plot for the last hundred or so chapters. He only did that with one character.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2016 23:29
|
|
|
just because the Vanderreich were all the letters of the alphabet didn't mean all of them had to actually show up in an real capacity. I mean Kenpachi did kill 3 of them off-screen.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2016 23:36
|
|
|
Advice posted:I mean, let's be fair, Naruto didn't get as bad as Bleach until arguably the final few chapters, but even Kubo never introduced a magic spell that effortlessly revived every named character that had ever died and several characters only spoken of in legend, gave them unlimited energy and instant regeneration and made them essentially immortal and unstoppable so they could heavily influence the plot for the last hundred or so chapters. kishi wrote himself into a corner. kubo spun around real fast, got dizzy, and spent the next few years congratulating himself on a job well done.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2016 23:41
|
|
|
Stairmaster posted:just because the Vanderreich were all the letters of the alphabet didn't mean all of them had to actually show up in an real capacity. I mean Kenpachi did kill 3 of them off-screen. Having them as 1 big boss, 5 elites, and 20 mooks who die pretty much instantly would have worked a lot better IMO.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2016 23:54
|
|
|
having the final battle take place in the home of the 30+ unkillable magic ghosts was a mistake bleach couldn't come back from. kubo's only options after that point were to kill off most of the sword ghosts or spend years on 1 on 1 fights. all those characters with a vested interest needed to be accounted for, and well, kubo sure did.
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2016 00:10
|
|
|
In six hundred-plus chapters they lived in a town and visited another town and a desert. Maybe we could be generous and split Soul Society into the castle and surrounding village? As well as Bleach never going anywhere, Bleach never went anywhere. 
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2016 00:36
|
|
|
So in terms of a post-mortem look at Bleach I think that this is a pretty good video about it that I found: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACq7tgjHdGA I think it is a good point that Kubo and his staff just stopped putting as much effort and energy onto the page as they used to. Apathy can be traced to a lot of Bleach's failings imo. Also it's pretty shocking to see just how far the series had fallen in popularity. Nephthys fucked around with this message at 01:45 on Aug 22, 2016 |
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2016 01:32
|
|
|
good video. Sums up much of the critique some of the more analytic posters here have made. feels like the autopsy is complete, tbh
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2016 02:15
|
|
|
Nephthys posted:So in terms of a post-mortem look at Bleach I think that this is a pretty good video about it that I found: Yeah, that's a pretty definitive autopsy, I'd say.
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2016 02:43
|
|
|
good. now someone post a picture of yoruichi's huge rear end and we can close this thread down (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2016 02:49
|
|
|
Remember when Bleach looked like it would be anime Odd Thomas? It was a short-lived dream, but a good one.
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2016 03:05
|
|
|
Nephthys posted:So in terms of a post-mortem look at Bleach I think that this is a pretty good video about it that I found: This thing barely goes into how every single battle was the same thing, the obsession Kubo had with introducing new characters, and seems to imply that the editorial screwed Kubo over by only giving him three chapters to finish when he was given years to conclude Bleach in a final arc. Like I don't even hate Kubo or anything but this review is absolutely making him look better than he was.
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2016 03:08
|
|
|
The review called Ulqiorra cool. So it was bad.
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2016 03:14
|
|
|
ulquiorra would have been cool if kubo had been more self aware and made fun at his expense.
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2016 03:16
|
|
|
you know sort of like early bleach
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2016 03:17
|
|
|
i think it was a little too kind to kubo, but it brought up some good points.
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2016 03:21
|
|
|
for real though, nothing like this thread would ever have happened if kubo had done a bunch of shorter manga instead of running face first into his own limitations as a writer.
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2016 03:24
|
|
|
How did Yamamoto and his vice captain fight over tea (Japanese tea vs Western tea) if Soul Society is like, 100% Japanese. Does Soul Society get imports of tea. Did they have their own Boston Tea Party?
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2016 03:24
|
|
|
even kenpachi and gin were the subject of a gag in their first appearance! come on kubo
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2016 03:25
|
|
|
Like if you want an honest answer as to why Bleach died, it's pretty loving simple: Soul Society ended and Kubo had to write a new big plot. Only it turns out he only has one idea for a big plot, so he just did it again. And again. And again. And again. And as it turns out, most readers aren't morons and recognized that they were just going to get more of the same. More new villains who exist only to give the existing huge cast a reason to use a new move. More "fights" that are just characters going "AH BUT I'M NOT LEFT HANDED!". More chapters that end with a diagonal slash. More chapters that are just the characters you know repeating their one note to remind you that they are indeed those characters. More chapters of Ichigo being depressed and then gaining new resolve. More. loving. Chapters. And then, at long last, Deicide ended. At this point a large chunk of the readers were only hanging on because they wanted to see how it would end (if you hook your audience early on, many will accept literally anything), and the ending was as stupid as everyone thought it would be. There was closure. But Bleach just kept on chugging. And honestly, the start of the Fullbringer arc wasn't even that bad. It was something new, and while that pissed off the hardcore dedicated fans who honestly loved being fed the same thing over and over, it was legitimately Kubo trying to do something new. Only then Soul Society jumped in and this big, suspenseful dramatic plot ended up being resolved with "And then Ichigo's BETTER friends came in and saved the day lol". Cue another onslaught of More. Of. The. Same. And then, finally, Shonen Jump had had enough. Kubo was told he had to end Bleach, but he was also allowed to do it on his own terms. So he announces the start of the final arc, takes a hiatus to plan, and then boom. Thousand Year War. Which actually started off nice! Something new was happening, things were exciting! And then it all ground to a halt as soon as the initial invasion ended and we just got more of the loving same. At this point basically everyone realized where this was going to go, because this literally just happened with the Fullbringer arc. Kubo thought up a decent start, but couldn't actually think of a good way to resolve it so we got more of the loving same. Only this time, this time it was the end. So this time it was worse than ever before because Kubo wanted to give every single god drat character their own, personal moment to shine. So even more villains. Even more fights. Even more diagonal slashes. Even more ridiculously flat characters. Even more of Ichigo being depressed. And that's not even going into the more idiosyncratic issues the final arc had, like Ichigo being forced to run around so the plot wouldn't progress, the completely bullshit enemy powers, the endless game of "boy it's a good thing I have an attack that's just perfect for this situation!!!", the confusing art, and the vague as hell situation with the Soul King. There's more, but then I'd have to start going into specifics and gently caress if I'm spending anymore time on this post. Kubo was given years to wrap up Bleach, and he pissed every last one of them away. Bleach had sunken to near the bottom of the rankings. It had become a punchline to an uncountable number of jokes. The anime got canceled. And the end was still nowhere in sight. The fact that there are people who are surprised that Shonen Jump finally gave Kubo a tap on the shoulder speaks to how deluded fans can be. EDIT: With that said, though, at least it was fun making fun of Bleach. BlitzBlast fucked around with this message at 03:37 on Aug 22, 2016 |
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2016 03:32
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2016 03:54
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 10, 2024 16:41 |
|
|
Naruto's ending wasn't rushed.
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2016 03:59
|
|