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KakerMix posted:Honest question: Obvious answer: It's not. Crossing my fingers (w/ B-R-A-B-E-N L-Y-F-E tattooed on the knuckles) that escape pod travel time is properly simulated in 2.3
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Aug 22, 2016 05:21
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I think that the brown sea is confusing "tedium" with "immersion". When you die you magically reappear in a ship. It's just sort of glossed over that you bailed in an escape pod and had to be rescued/treated/brought back to life. Why? Because there's basically no point in showing all of that from a gameplay perspective. The seafarers don't understand that part. To them, everything must be "simulated" or else they can't reach full immersion climax or whatever the gently caress. Teleporting ships is just a contrivance used to reduce tedium, similarly to instantly respawning in a ship. Does it make the game more "gamey"? Yes. It absolutely does; that's the point.
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Aug 22, 2016 05:33
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If you want fidelity you can just get a taxi hauler and do the pickup/dropoff yourself, it's not like the old way is going away. Nevermind that these ships should totally be able to remotely fly themselves - "realistically" we would just be in suspended animation while our ships do combat manuvers at 10Gs. What is it with space fans thinking that anything involving manned ships should be realistic?
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Aug 22, 2016 05:44
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KakerMix posted:Honest question: Yeah when you die in game Frontier should send a hitman to your house to shoot you in the back of the head. For immersion.
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Aug 22, 2016 05:55
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Good Dumplings posted:If you want fidelity you can just get a taxi hauler and do the pickup/dropoff yourself, it's not like the old way is going away. Nevermind that these ships should totally be able to remotely fly themselves - "realistically" we would just be in suspended animation while our ships do combat manuvers at 10Gs. What is it with space fans thinking that anything involving manned ships should be realistic? It isn't about the fact that the option is available to them and they just won't use it, it's that they want everyone else to play the game their way. I remember when I was little and there were the toy cars that had their doors that could open. Some kids would open the doors, pretend they were wings and the car could fly. I, being a spergy little idiot kid, would always get mad and yell 'PLAY REAL!'. The chumps whining in the brown sea are that little spergy kid I used to be. I guess we're just waiting for them to not be 5 years old 
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Aug 22, 2016 05:56
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I actually got sucked into that megathread and tried to engage with the brown sea. Seems to be like pissing in the ocean. I do worry for the people who find instant ship transporting so game breaking, because I suspect when multicrew stuff hits as part of Horizons, some way or another it's going to have to deal with players joining and leaving groups on a single ship. If they're upset now, they're going to be on suicide watch then.
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Aug 22, 2016 06:27
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Wolfechu posted:I actually got sucked into that megathread and tried to engage with the brown sea. Seems to be like pissing in the ocean. Nah they'll just suck it up and deal with it. It isn't like they are going to go play Star Citizen or No Man's Sky instead.
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Aug 22, 2016 07:11
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Sultan Tarquin posted:Can you elaborate? I checked on the galaxy map and they're directly next to each other, unless you buy from both then just sell in the bubble? There are enough courier missions from Aditi to Diamond Vision that you can visit two starports (typically pew1901 and smjl central) and fill your mission log. These frequently pay upward of 100k each. Easy way to grind imperial rep and make cash. Plus far enough from the bubble that with a python you can haul 200t of stuff back to civilisation for around 20-30m if you're patient and selective about which missions you go for. I tried Sothis once and it had no missions, so I flew across to Aditi and discovered a few planets on the way (my first ones). Just buy a cheap sidewinder or eagle and an auto lander to give you a chance at those mission bonuses (you think it's bad when you get one mission giving you 2 minutes to land try it with 15). If you're working for a cutter it's a nice easy grind for imperial rep. The rank advance missions are usually for the same route as well. I've even seen the Aditi mafia offering snake missions for 2mil on the same run (just don't get seen or its a 2 mil mission fine plus the station fine). Don't take my word for it, give it a go, it's only about 200ly outside the bubble, you can do it almost on a tank of fuel in an Asp.
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Aug 22, 2016 07:17
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Funny that people complain about unrealistic and immersion breaking additions to game with FTL travel. If you can tunnel through witchspace or travel at superluminal speeds in supercruise an still see something, you can also instantly appear at the station after your death, who cares. I can do tedious tasks, but then I want a salary.
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Aug 22, 2016 08:51
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Braben showed pity and gave me the Modified Embedded Firmware at last. Second roll was a good one and i decided to simply buy the corrosive ammo snce i wont be having to deal with Blaster again for a long time. My Multicannon now shoots blue. Totally worth it. Next order of business is Elvira Martuuk for some FSD range. First (and only) roll i got was max negative and good but not great positive. Now im in need of some Datamined Wake Exceptions. I bought a wake scanner and now im pondering where to camp. The mining stations in the system dont see too much travel, anyone know by heart if theres some huge civilian system with a big rear end station nearby? Soon as i get a nice juicy roll on the FSD im off to Lei Cheung to pimp the poo poo out of my prismatic and 3 boosters.
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Aug 22, 2016 09:34
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Yolomon Wayne posted:Braben showed pity and gave me the Modified Embedded Firmware at last. Protip: You can filter the galaxy map after population. Chances are if you go into a system with huge population, there will be large stations. And yes, if you just hang around them, there'll be a lot of high wakes to scan. Lots of traffic.
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Aug 22, 2016 09:42
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Gonkish posted:full immersion climax This. Thread title worthy.
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Aug 22, 2016 09:42
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Gonkish posted:I think that the brown sea is confusing "tedium" with "immersion". When you die you magically reappear in a ship. It's just sort of glossed over that you bailed in an escape pod and had to be rescued/treated/brought back to life. Why? Because there's basically no point in showing all of that from a gameplay perspective. I still believe my "character" is just an AI thats uploaded into a mindless Surrogate thats bolted to the ship. We never leave it, never eat, never poo poo or even piss. The host body only needs Oxygen to function. If the flesh-vessel is destroyed, another (updated) copy of our AI is injected into a drone and we continue our wacky adventures through space from the safety of the great central singularity processor. Either that or were the richest space-hobo ever since we dont own a home but ships worth small settlements.
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Aug 22, 2016 09:45
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Yolomon Wayne posted:I still believe my "character" is just an AI thats uploaded into a mindless Surrogate thats bolted to the ship. I choose to believe my character does all this whenever I'm not playing. Since honestly, that's giving him like multiple days of freedom for every couple hours I play. Plenty of time to relax, eat, sleep and doing whatever else necessary. 
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Aug 22, 2016 09:49
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All I know is that if I can't get an accurate 1:1 timeframe representation of sticking my space dick in Thargoids I will CHARGEBACK! so hard it will literally make David Braben's head explode.
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Aug 22, 2016 09:56
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Ugleb posted:Thought I'd take a look at this thread after being uber casual about Elite for ages. What is this Brown Sea you speak of? The Brown Sea, AKA the official Elite/Frontier forums, where the spergiest of spergs and the neckiest of beards collect in giant unwashed masses and shitpost loudly. Engineers you're aware of (ie, have gotten an invitation for) can be found in the Engineers UI at your right-hand command panel, under Status IIRC. They'll require a donation of some sort to initially deal with you - Felicity Farseer wants a ton of meta-alloys, for example, while 'Blaster' McQuinn wants a bunch of bounty vouchers. Each engineer will have a couple of things they focus on and will upgrade to high levels (FSDs and thrusters for Felicity, cannons and multicannons for Blaster, etc) and a bunch of things they'll fiddle with a bit. Upgrades are purchased via materials you can find frikken anywhere in some amounts, and purchasing upgrades will earn you reputation with the engineer in question that'll unlock higher-tier upgrades and eventually earn you invitations to new Engineers. A recent update enormously nerfed the grind for modifications (seriously, most basic-tier upgrades only take 1 piece of a certain common material, and you get 3 for every drop) so you can probably do a bit of tweaking after fifteen minutes of puttering around. The more powerful higher-tier mods (they're ranked from t1 to t5) however take rare materials and commodities that you likely will have to actively hunt around for for a while. Some 'materials' are actually data packages that can be found by scanning other ships or frameshift wakes, so you may want to consider picking up a wake scanner. Note, though, that higher tier doesn't necessarily mean better. The lower 1- and 2-tier upgrades tend to be pretty balanced, minor upgrades for very small or nonexistent drawbacks, while the higher 4-5 tier upgrades will hugely improve one or two aspects of your gear while severely impacting another. Up to you what serves your needs best. Drake_263 fucked around with this message at 10:57 on Aug 22, 2016 |
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Aug 22, 2016 10:29
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Drake_263 posted:purchasing upgrades will earn you reputation with the engineer in question that'll unlock higher-tier upgrades and eventually earn you invitations to new Engineers. Good answer, thanks. So does this bit mean that the only way to unlock new engineers is to interact with these starter characters? I may have to suck up a little pilgrimage to one of them I guess.
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Aug 22, 2016 13:09
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Getting a bit into lvl 3 normally unlocks another engineer.
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Aug 22, 2016 13:37
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crayon85 posted:There are enough courier missions from Aditi to Diamond Vision that you can visit two starports (typically pew1901 and smjl central) and fill your mission log. These frequently pay upward of 100k each. Easy way to grind imperial rep and make cash. Plus far enough from the bubble that with a python you can haul 200t of stuff back to civilisation for around 20-30m if you're patient and selective about which missions you go for. I tried Sothis once and it had no missions, so I flew across to Aditi and discovered a few planets on the way (my first ones). Alright cheers! I have my asp fit for 88t of cargo right now so I should be able to load up on quite a few missions. I have been trying to find out a good place to raise Imperial rep because I want to pimp out a courier with engineer upgrades. Last night I ran from the Sothis Mining outpost and made about 10m? Obviously not as much as the smuggling missions if the bigger stations weren't UA bombed to hell.
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Aug 22, 2016 13:38
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In a game where you can get from Earth to the Orion Nebula in the time it takes me to drive to the town over, bitching about ship transfers being instant as "immersion breaking" or "magic is canon" is pretty lol.
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Aug 22, 2016 13:49
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Nostalgia4Infinity posted:In a game where you can get from Earth to the Orion Nebula in the time it takes me to drive to the town over, bitching about ship transfers being instant as "immersion breaking" or "magic is canon" is pretty lol. I was thinking this morning that there's an odd disjunction between how Elite tries to model the galaxy faithfully and how hellishly fast ships go. The idea that the galaxy is big and wide open is exactly a product of it being a video game that we don't invest serious time or effort into, because the opposite end of the galaxy is a moderate sized road trip away. If there were actually people in the Elite universe that cared about exploration and were willing to throw a couple of grad students in beat-up Asp Explorers the entire galaxy would've been charted by now. Elite's scale falls apart if we try to add more realism to it, so why the hell do people keep pining for it?
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Aug 22, 2016 14:04
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Exactly the "speed" is a conceit of it being a multiplayer game. The sense of time has to be somewhat abstracted since the current FSD tech has effectively shrunk the entire galaxy to essentially the size of Texas.
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Aug 22, 2016 14:19
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I have a few million in the bank. How do I start the process of getting the Engineers upgrades once you have the DLC? Who/Where do you talk to specifically for weapons and FSD? And have more people picked it up on Xbox here yet?
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Aug 22, 2016 14:41
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Shadow_333 posted:Getting a bit into lvl 3 normally unlocks another engineer. Yep, invitation triggers at reaching rank 3.3 for all engineers that are prerequisites for other engineers.
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Aug 22, 2016 14:59
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Ugleb posted:Good answer, thanks. So does this bit mean that the only way to unlock new engineers is to interact with these starter characters? Yes. I think all of these starter Engineers also have a prerequisite before they'll send you an invitation, like Felicity Farseer requires that at least Scout level exploration rank. I'm not sure if engineers whose prereqs you haven't yet fulfilled are invisible in the UI or just marked as unavailable - they were all unlocked for me when I got Engineers. Either case, without an invitation you can't even see the Engineer's outpost on your galaxy/system map. Don't get clever and try and home in on a friend who's docked at the outpost - I tried that and the station defenses are only happy to shoot your uninvited rear end down if you don't get off their lawn.
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Aug 22, 2016 15:08
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You want to talk immersion, my character sat in the cockpit of a sidewinder for DAYS without getting out. Even when I went to starports and docked in the hanger, I would appear to remain in the cockpit. Clearly the pilot's seat is a toilet. Also, why didn't I have to realistically go through rehab when I got my asp? My legs muscles should have atrophied to the point the muscles were unusable and I never would have been able to get up and walk. Why didn't I have to fly to rehab planet and spend 3 days learning to walk again so I could make the journey from the cockpit cabin door to my new toilet chair? And where is my head for that matter? Last night I played my Anaconda for the first time on the Vive. I love that you sit high enough that you feel really close to the ceiling and can see it in your vision. It makes you feel like you're actually looking out a window rather than space just filling your view and forgetting I am in a spaceship. I hate that the Huge gun mount is on the bottom of the ship though. I have a cannon down there, but the only way I can hit people with it is if they're like 400m away and I can't even see them because they're underneath the giant bow of the ship! You'd think the people at Faulcon DeLacy would have considered putting a webcam on the bottom of the ship and a little screen on the captain's chair so you can see where your gun is aiming and if the target is in the middle of changing directions so wait a sec before firing the cannon. Any tips on hitting people with a huge cannon if I can't see the target?
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Aug 22, 2016 15:17
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Gimbal? Conversely put a c4 beam on that puppy and have a phaser bank 
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Aug 22, 2016 15:19
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Oh my god stop messaging me it's not that critical.
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Aug 22, 2016 16:57
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CapnBry posted:You want to talk immersion, my character sat in the cockpit of a sidewinder for DAYS without getting out. Even when I went to starports and docked in the hanger, I would appear to remain in the cockpit. Clearly the pilot's seat is a toilet. Also, why didn't I have to realistically go through rehab when I got my asp? My legs muscles should have atrophied to the point the muscles were unusable and I never would have been able to get up and walk. Why didn't I have to fly to rehab planet and spend 3 days learning to walk again so I could make the journey from the cockpit cabin door to my new toilet chair? And where is my head for that matter? Stillsuit plus muscle-stimulating electro-weave spacesuit fiber. Still more realistic than instantaneous ship transfer 
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Aug 22, 2016 17:08
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Sultan Tarquin posted:Oh my god stop messaging me it's not that critical. "We're very disappointed you weren't able..." "We expected better of you..." "I thought you'd rise to the occasion..." "We're not mad, just disappointed..." "If you're OK being just an OK courier then that's fine for some people..." "We didn't expect we hired the best pilot and there were no surprises..." 
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Aug 22, 2016 17:16
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Hey you! Yeah, you! Are you coming back after months of inactivity? Are you a complete newbie? Do you want to learn how to do engineer stuff? Then boy do I have the thing for you! I present "The Tadpole's Uplifting Engineering Primer" -- this will tell you what you need to know, what you need to do, and all that great stuff. Check it out here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/14F5pbks7dpEOGaVlhE8b-i2hJg2ufj31wuaMq8Ro-iw/edit?usp=sharing The guide is written with a clueless idiot in mind. It's based primarily on my own experiences in getting max rank with everyone. It is factually correct as of this time. I am constantly updating it, adding poo poo that I come across that might be useful Give it a read and let me know if it helps. If someone wants to help me convert it into a forum post I'd be down for that too.
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Aug 22, 2016 17:32
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Conskill posted:I was thinking this morning that there's an odd disjunction between how Elite tries to model the galaxy faithfully and how hellishly fast ships go. The idea that the galaxy is big and wide open is exactly a product of it being a video game that we don't invest serious time or effort into, because the opposite end of the galaxy is a moderate sized road trip away. If there were actually people in the Elite universe that cared about exploration and were willing to throw a couple of grad students in beat-up Asp Explorers the entire galaxy would've been charted by now. Apparently the new type of fast FSD drives were only invented in the last 6 years, and its implied that the Pilots Federation only got access since the launch of the game.. but yeah obviously even with the old drives most of the galaxy would have been systematically mapped by probes generations ago.. well unless Thargoids Not a big fan of the instant transfer even at the risk of smelling like poop. In EVE there is no automatic transfer of ships either, you have to pay a player corp to do it in real time for you or have a large enough cargo ship capable of carrying them yourself. And if you have a specific destination in mind then why not arrange a ship transfer in advance? Then you dont have to wait when you get there but you do have to plan. Players having to make choices is gameplay. Risk/reward. Do I pay money now to transfer my ships in advance, or get there and risk being outclassed for however long it takes for my Python to arrive? Rhetorical question, would Doom play better if you never worry about ammo because you could convert collected ammo from one type to another on the fly? I mean, having to go back somewhere and pick up ammo for my plasma gun is just going from A-B, it's tedious, boring IMMERSHUN etc. Rhetorical answer: Because level designers can vary the challenge for the player, so the player has to change their strategy. And variety (Abwechslung) is interesting, not it's opposite. Different point, but instant transfer does make it hard for logistics to be an area player orgs can gain an advantage on as with EVE. Suits the grandpas I guess but doesn't bode well for player orgs in the future. Also, enabling quicker PVP is good but doesn't encourage Frontier to put effort where it should be focused, i.e. CQC and combat balancing. I'd love if CQC 1) had bots to stop players waiting for ages for a match 2) had real cash rewards so players had more incentive to dive in once in a while 3) could spin up an arena on demand for a duel with another player or player group 4) could be accessed from station Dunno, just feels weird to be finally praising  for prioritising fun gameplay for a change when to me it looks like they just went for the quickest easiest solution because that's what they always do.. Meanwhile the game designers say they want to avoid module/commodity storage because heaven forbid savvy commanders might stockpile goods in various places and try to manipulate markets! Which would break their amazingly fun trading metagame which currently involves going to third party websites to find basic information, like how much fish sells for in the station in the next solar system.
oRGy fucked around with this message at 17:46 on Aug 22, 2016 |
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Aug 22, 2016 17:39
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oRGy posted:In EVE Hey hey you, guess what? This isn't Eve.
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Aug 22, 2016 17:54
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There will never be player orgs like EvE corps. Period. Elite is a single player game with coop tacked on.
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Aug 22, 2016 17:55
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hey cool, it's like talking to redditors who know more about what's in the game 8 years from now than braben himself. hows the diamond frogs thing going btw? edit: bonus ironic quote pretty chill with the 2.2 news overall, just seems like one of those frontier "add x feature without thinking about meta/balance" to me, but time will tell. oRGy fucked around with this message at 18:12 on Aug 22, 2016 |
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Aug 22, 2016 18:00
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Kurr de la Cruz posted:Hey you! Yeah, you! Are you coming back after months of inactivity? Are you a complete newbie? Do you want to learn how to do engineer stuff? Then boy do I have the thing for you! I present "The Tadpole's Uplifting Engineering Primer" -- this will tell you what you need to know, what you need to do, and all that great stuff. Check it out here: This is some good poo poo.
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Aug 22, 2016 18:00
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Drake_263 posted:Yes. I think all of these starter Engineers also have a prerequisite before they'll send you an invitation, like Felicity Farseer requires that at least Scout level exploration rank. I'm not sure if engineers whose prereqs you haven't yet fulfilled are invisible in the UI or just marked as unavailable - they were all unlocked for me when I got Engineers. Yeah there are 5 or so starting engineers that mail you simultaneously when you first login to horizons. You get told what you need to do to unlock them but not necessarily their location. I just ignored them for months. The 'travel 300LY from starting location' one showed me that I somehow had never been that far from wherever I started because I'm a pathetic casual who spends lots of time in one area apparently. I started playing in late beta, go figure. I have since touched the edge of the bubble to fix that, got scared and went back home. Haven't been to that engineer yet because she turned out to be something like 200LY in the opposite direction. I will now aim to fix that too, even if it does mean going into filthy Federation space with my shiny Courier.
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Aug 22, 2016 18:04
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Kurr de la Cruz posted:There will never be player orgs like EvE corps. Period. Elite is a single player game with coop tacked on. Early EVE social structures were nothing like they are today, and alliances were not part of the original design. At one point CCP didn't want to build game mechanics around them at all, they only became a tangible game mechanic because players made the case for them, repeatedly and loudly. They have grown and evolved over many years, it didn't happen all at once. At some point Frontier will need to address the issue that their quasi-MMO with its much lauded and publicised (by Frontier) player communities have basically no social interaction tools within the client. Aside from wings and a really clunky local chat interface everything else is done outside of the game.
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Aug 22, 2016 18:22
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Sure are a lot of people on here defending poor design decisions. Devils advocate, how does having some modest timer hinder your gameplay at all? At what point do you need to have your ship right now, where you couldn't have planned ahead 10 minutes? If they had released it without a timer in the first place would you have complained that there was a time gate or just be thankful we could move our ships? The game would be better all around with having the sink for transferring ships be time and not money. Now people are going to be complaining how they can't afford to move their fleet across human space because of outrageous prices, when having it be affordable and just take time would have made moving around trivial. It also satisfies immersion and lore requirements in this game that puts a lot of stock in both.
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Aug 22, 2016 18:25
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oRGy posted:hey cool, it's like talking to redditors who know more about what's in the game 8 years from now than braben himself. hows the diamond frogs thing going btw? Alright let's have a real cool discussion irl. Reddit and the brown sea are up in arms about the instant transfer thing too, but against it. They, like you, want there to be some sort of time-cost. In this instance the 'lol reddit' bit is against you not the cool and sexy people with lives and full heads of hair. When you say ~In EVE..~ against Elite: Dangerous you are already on the wrong foot. EVE is a MMO, complete with single-server-space-no-single-player aspects, with player owned and ran organizations, you know, massively multiplayer things. Elite is Kurr de la Cruz posted:Elite is a single player game with coop tacked on. So when you compare EVE to Elite that you are comparing superficial details only because as games they are pretty different. There is no player run organizations in Elite, there are no markets to control or products to manufacture or invasions to mount or capital ships to destroy. When Frontier goes 'ah gently caress it instant ship transfers' there is more to it than they are just chucking things in that might ~upset the balance~ of a game that doesn't exist. Frontier doesn't want to have to design, implement and test a complicated timed system or ones with risk or whatever the hell else people think that they should add to the game because they are suddenly up in arms about one aspect of the game that's unrealistic vs. every other aspect of the game that is. Like instant respawning, instant cargo transfers, instant refueling, free storage for 25 ships the size of football fields wherever you want. Instant ship transfers will have dick-all affect on any aspect of the game because you already can't have an effect on those things that people are dreaming up conflict about. Ugleb posted:Early EVE social structures were nothing like they are today, and alliances were not part of the original design. At one point CCP didn't want to build game mechanics around them at all, they only became a tangible game mechanic because players made the case for them, repeatedly and loudly. They have grown and evolved over many years, it didn't happen all at once. Even with this though the game is instanced. Instancing means this will never ever be like EVE in the way people would like it to be. Someone will always be able to get past whatever blockades or gangs or wars or whatever you as a player might want to mount because the servers will sheer off players that you will not be able to influence. Instancing is the true difference that will make sure Elite is never like EVE.
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Aug 22, 2016 18:25
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