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Storing some initial game state + player actions is the correct way to do replays, and therefore how every game does it. Starcraft did not have replays on release, they hacked it on later, and never implemented a version check. This happened to work out fairly well because years later Brood War had such a long active lifespan without any balance changes, but at the time it was definitely frustrating to gear up to watch a sick reep and slowly realize you've "desynced" and none of the player actions made sense anymore. The real flaws in Warcaft 3's replays are not being able to watch them online, and not storing the map inside the replay. I'm guessing this was a file size decision but it got really annoying when tournaments started making custom maps with sponsor logos and it was impossible to track down the exact right one. Starcraft 2 then went the extra mile of keeping all the old patch data and rolling back to the correct version when watching old replays. These days you can get very close to the same level of convenience with WC3 by just downloading ReplayKit
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Aug 12, 2016 00:26
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I remember a War3 patch Blizzard made that did absolutely nothing but fix a bug with castles and masonry upgrades and it still broke all of my loving replays.
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Aug 12, 2016 03:53
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I don't remember, do you need the map to go along with the replay in order to watch the replay? If so, I definitely can't watch any of these replays then. I played whatever UMS map I could find where I could poo poo on people.
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Aug 12, 2016 04:06
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Node posted:I played whatever UMS map I could find where I could poo poo on people. For me that was just Road to Stratholme  .Man that was my favorite ladder map. Terenas Stand was an oldie but goodie too.
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Aug 12, 2016 16:04
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Suspicious posted:All I know is you could watch BW replays from previous versions (mostly) bug free and you could also watch them with other people. See here http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Portal:Beginners/Replays#Common_Bugs_and_Fixes and here http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/brood-war/351904-how-can-i-watch-old-replays for further brood war replay information. But yeah the other criticisms of war3 replays I agree with. SC2 replays are indeed way better, the only downside is you have to play SC2
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Aug 12, 2016 16:47
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Why do people hate starcraft 2 so much, like what makes brood war a better game. Asking for a friend
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Aug 12, 2016 16:50
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Oh god now you've done it. I actually like SC2 and still play it but I was just dropping the obligatory "sc2 is dead/sucks" meme cause somebody was gonna say it so why not get it over with. Now a bunch of people are probably going to write a bunch of words about why they don't like SC2 though.
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Aug 12, 2016 16:50
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Col.Kiwi posted:Oh god now you've done it. Congratulations, you have low standards!
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Aug 12, 2016 17:04
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Ramagamma posted:Why do people hate starcraft 2 so much, like what makes brood war a better game. Asking for a friend virtually every change they made was bad (they hired a designer from command and conquer to lead which is the weirdest to me).
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Aug 12, 2016 18:43
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I'm just gonna say that I enjoyed the hell out of playing all three SC2 single player campaigns, and felt like I totally got my money's worth based on that, and don't even touch the multiplayer. I bet there are a fair number of silent SC2 fans like me out there who just quietly enjoy the hell out of the single-player mode and find multiplayer rather unpleasant and stressful, but I feel the same about MOBAs and uh, a lot of stuff. Or at least, like, 5 years ago that was true right after WoL came out and it seemed like the player-base was thriving, and I can't imagine it's gotten better since then based on what I've heard.
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Aug 12, 2016 18:44
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the story was loving garbage dude.
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Aug 12, 2016 18:48
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Groovelord Neato posted:the story was loving garbage dude. I didn't care about the story it was the gameplay and the level design that was fun, and the fact that it reminded me of like a mix of the original Starcraft/Brood War campaign and it had some Warcraft 3 in there with the Hero units. I don't know, I just found playing the game enjoyable and the story being absurd D-rate garbage wasn't really a problem because it's really loving rare that a videogame has anything remotely resembling a good or coherent story. SC2 was at its best when it didn't take itself too seriously, which is why the final expansion featuring the deadly serious Protoss was such a loving snoozefest if you actually bothered to listen to all the inane dialogue. Wings of Liberty didn't take itself all that seriously to begin with so it worked the best, the Zerg one worked for me because it was so silly and over-the-top with the hilarious nonsense that was Kerrigan's "arc" that you just had to laugh and go along with it. But again, the gameplay was fantastic, the unit customization was hugely fun - shaping my own army and attacking different levels in different ways, etc. You had that on some level in all 3 games and it was always well-done and really fun to play with, I thought. Plus it even added replayability - I played each of the expansions twice, once on Hard and once on Brutal, and got lots of enjoyment out of them. I'm just saying... I want a good story I go and read a good book, or if I'm lazy perhaps I'll watch a good movie or an episode in some drat TV series. *shrug*. I know this is a stupid argument and I don't really want to start it again but videogame stories in general are garbage and I guess my standards are set so low for them that I just don't mind. The ones that can actually be described as "good" are so much the exception to the rule that it's so why so much gets made of a game like 'The Last of Us', or whatever. Now if I were watching a movie with SC2's plotline, I'd turn it off after 5 minutes with a disgusted look on my face. But uh, I skipped over the FMVs just in general and went straight to playing the scenarios so it was never a huge problem or anything. kaworu fucked around with this message at 19:13 on Aug 12, 2016 |
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Aug 12, 2016 19:04
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games have dumb stories because people will go "oh it's just a game why would i play a game for story" last of us doesn't have a good story and it isn't told well so that's also partly gamers and game critics not knowing what constitutes good storytelling so you're right there.
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Aug 12, 2016 19:26
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Milky Moor posted:Congratulations, you have low standards! So I think it's more an issue of bad taste than low standards.
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Aug 12, 2016 19:33
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Groovelord Neato posted:games have dumb stories because people will go "oh it's just a game why would i play a game for story" This is fallacious and just isn't really how the economics of the situation works. Good storytelling - good art - costs a certain amount of money. There's a reason why every film isn't a masterpiece, and every book isn't a bestseller. Talent is often rare, mercurial, and it's expensive. The big videogame companies are not expending huge amounts of money on people who are *necessarily* hugely talented in the department of writing and storytelling. They're spending money on the other things that make a game great, and because so much emphasis is placed on things such as gameplay, graphics, playability, multiplayer - hundreds of things - it's not often like every game developer can break the bank and go all-out and tell an amazing story at the same time. Some games are ambitious, and they do go down this path, and sometimes they succeed hugely. Some games are ambitious and they try to go down this path but fail horribly. Maybe they succeed in other departments. Maybe they don't. The point I'm trying to make is that games do not often have dumb stories because people don't care about the story - though to some degree you are making a valid point. Games often have bad stories because storytelling is considered by developers to often be secondary to other things that they consider more important; some games barely have stories. Some games tell their stories in subtle ways, or the storytelling is shaped and either enhanced or inhibited by the nature of the gameplay. What I'm trying to say is that 'good storytelling' in videogames is almost a luxury, and it's also very difficult to pull off at times, depending on the game and the expectations. There are so many reasons why we are where we are in the videogame industry with regards to this. Hollywood often has the same issues, vis-a-vis a lack of good, original stories and storytelling. In many ways, videogames allow for much more freedom to tell interesting and different types of stories than the film industry, given the relative popularity of good indie games. And I've never even played 'The Last of Us' I just thought it would be an amusing example of the videogame equivalent of some bland hollywood blockbuster.
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Aug 12, 2016 23:52
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Ramagamma posted:Why do people hate starcraft 2 so much, like what makes brood war a better game. Asking for a friend LotV is doing great. a lot of the differences are mechanical, intentional or otherwise. you can select an infinite number of units in a control group in sc2, as opposed to the 12-unit or 1-building limit in BW, which made for a lot of 'max out and deathball' play in WoL/HotS. HotS in particular was liquid poo poo and for evidence i submit the 2+ hour ZvT that the players abandoned because they would rather start over than play out the remaining hour of swarm hosts v mech. basically "having a modern interface" makes sc2 a lot less awkward to control, but being so smooth removes a lot of the quirky behavior you could use to micro in BW. if you've never played either game before SC2 would unequivocally feel better but you're also more likely to blink and lose a ton of units. BW/LotV are good and sufficiently different games that there's space for both, in fact BW is having a revival in Korea with a new starleague with old and new pros (VODs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9F1KRtrs-k)
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Aug 13, 2016 06:30
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I personally don't think Blizzard wanted BW and SC2 to co-exist and such a thing is a hideous indictment of SC2s failure but, hey.
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Aug 13, 2016 07:03
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Milky Moor posted:I personally don't think Blizzard wanted BW and SC2 to co-exist and such a thing is a hideous indictment of SC2s failure but, hey. probably not intentional, at least not before they re-monetize with BW:HD (wherein they will definitely gently caress something up by doing anything beyond making nicer sprites and custom key layouts)
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Aug 13, 2016 07:10
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Antares posted:BW/LotV are good and sufficiently different games that there's space for both, in fact BW is having a revival in Korea with a new starleague with old and new pros (VODs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9F1KRtrs-k) it's really really dumb how korean pros just change their handles whenever.
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Aug 13, 2016 12:11
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Groovelord Neato posted:virtually every change they made was bad (they hired a designer from command and conquer to lead which is the weirdest to me). The fact that they keep hiring these lead designers from other franchises has to be weird. 1) Blizzard the company has incredibly low self-esteem 2) They don't actually enjoy playing their own games or understand why people like them? 3) It must suck to be a mid-level employee in Blizzard and keep seeing this outside "talent" being hired above you
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Aug 13, 2016 13:46
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Groovelord Neato posted:it's really really dumb how korean pros just change their handles whenever. yeah that's mostly a problem of the past, according to tasteless he explained to the organizers "this is actually part of your branding, they can't be changing their name to Feces every other week just because Koreans know them by their real name." i guess the BW guys who didn't move to SC2 weren't around for that lecture and thus "eyewater".
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Aug 13, 2016 15:22
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i wish e sports would move away from handles just in general imo
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Aug 13, 2016 15:34
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Milky Moor posted:i wish e sports would move away from handles just in general imo 
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Aug 14, 2016 07:52
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Poil posted:You don't wish regular sports takes up the habit instead? For example half a football team showing up with their totally l33t footballing names. The short lived XFL let players do that. Leading to the infamous He Hate Me jersey name.
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Aug 14, 2016 10:39
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koreans especially shoulda stick with handles since half of them are named kim so using real life names would suck.
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Aug 14, 2016 11:21
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There's been a bit of surge in the west (particularly NA) where people have just been using their first or last name. Darshan of CLG and Jensen of C9 in League of Legends come to mind. I think player handles in esports/competitive gaming is fine as long as it's not stupid poo poo, but the problem is half of them are straight up stupid poo poo. http://lol.gamepedia.com/NintendudeX For instance.
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Aug 14, 2016 20:35
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i raise http://lol.gamepedia.com/IWillDominate
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Aug 14, 2016 20:40
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Even worse when his name was shortened on stage to IWDominate.
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Aug 14, 2016 20:46
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West Ham Sandwich posted:There's been a bit of surge in the west (particularly NA) where people have just been using their first or last name. Darshan of CLG and Jensen of C9 in League of Legends come to mind. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/smash/Nintendude
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Aug 14, 2016 22:24
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I'm so tilted
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Aug 14, 2016 23:23
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Groovelord Neato posted:the story was loving garbage dude. I didn't mind Wings of Liberty cause it had like a space cowboy/Firefly vibe. Heart of the Swarm however was pretty bad and I didn't even bother buying LotV. The SC2 story as a whole seemed to miss that overarching space politics aspect that made SC1 & Brood War so good. Instead it was all about Kerrigan (who looked utterly ridiculous) and Raynor. So I uninstalled SC2 and installed Warcraft 3 again, which still owns 
Fanatic fucked around with this message at 05:30 on Aug 16, 2016 |
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Aug 16, 2016 05:28
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Because sc2 liked talking about feelings instead of just having characters express themselves by doing stuff that mattered to the story. You found out Fenix was a strong warrior in SC1 by using him to tear apart zerglings and found out he was committed to fighting until death when his corpse is suspended in a tank to carry on. You find out character information in SC2 by long forgettable conversations. Karax is awkwardly honored for his service after the easiest mission in the game where he doesn't even appear as a unit. Totally incompetent unless the intent is to make the protoss look retarded and backwards (the only consistent thread in lotv)
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Aug 16, 2016 20:38
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Frankly, I thought that the ideas and the overarching theme that they should have been shooting for COULD HAVE been really, really cool. I mean, the base *concept* is actually really cool, when you break it down and look at it. The Protoss are simultaneously annihilated when they try to expend their forces to take back Aiur, while at the same time Shakuras is also destroyed. While this is happening, Artanis gets on his Badass ship (I dont even remember the drat things name) that was prepared in ancient times for such a disaster, and so the ship essentially becomes the equivalent of freaking Battlestar Galactica for the Protoss - the ark and hope for the continuation of all Protoss existence. I thought that if they really moved on that hook, the game could have been way cooler. They could have taken a totally different approach, and made it about this Ark of the Protoss trying to survive and actually made the characters interesting... I guess my point is that the suckiness of the plot in LoTV is even worse to me because a lot of essentially great sci-fi concepts and tropes were wasted and used in really dumb ways.
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Aug 17, 2016 19:16
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kaworu posted:Frankly, I thought that the ideas and the overarching theme that they should have been shooting for COULD HAVE been really, really cool. I mean, the base *concept* is actually really cool, when you break it down and look at it. Not even going into how it's one of the more obvious cases of Blizzard just rehashing existing stuff. The technical expert is another short guy with a beard (since when do Protoss have beards?)! Haha, nice!
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Aug 18, 2016 00:46
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Milky Moor posted:I personally don't think Blizzard wanted BW and SC2 to co-exist and such a thing is a hideous indictment of SC2s failure but, hey. I think Blizzard just assumed that everyone would completely drop Brood War and pick up SC2 right away which just didn't happen. Both games have incredibly high skill caps but BW to most fans always was a more tactically interesting game that would play out in more varied ways. I find SC2 more appealing just because I never played BW but I understand the criticism. I think LotV made good steps in making the economy much more straightforward, it enables 3-5 minute timings that can just end games quickly with interesting micro. (my thoughts on just picking it up again briefly. One of the reasons I had quit was because most games ended up being a race to 200/200 with remax) schmitty9800 fucked around with this message at 01:40 on Aug 18, 2016 |
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Aug 18, 2016 01:36
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schmitty9800 posted:I think Blizzard just assumed that everyone would completely drop Brood War and pick up SC2 right away which just didn't happen. the ability to start making decisions right away is great, you could basically skip the first 5 minutes of droning in most WoL/HotS
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Aug 18, 2016 02:55
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ToD is putting on a crowdfunded WC3 tournament. You don't even need to pay to contribute, you can contribute $1 to the prize pool just by linking your Twitch account and putting in "TING" for a promo code. Interesting stretch goals, if the pool reaches $4K Lyn join, at $5K Th000 Infi and Fly will join, and at $6K Moon will join. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRF749cMXhs https://matcherino.com/b/tournaments/3493
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Aug 21, 2016 06:54
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uniball posted:We've had staggered vacations and were also somewhat satiated, but the main reason we haven't played is more interesting: Iggy wrote an amazing bot that scrapes the Northrend full games listings for all 3s and 4s AT games and dings us in Slack when a real (non-lossbot) game has occurred. We'd been having a bit of trouble finding games on weekdays starting in early July, so when the scraper hung on something a few weeks ago without anyone noticing we thought that nobody was finding 3s games. We assumed that the gametype died again, and went back into a post-war3 malaise and didn't even try searching. Iggy got the bot running again yesterday, and it turns out euro3s is still humming along (though it's still a small scene and prime hours are limited). Weekday wigs still suck though, we searched for ~90min to find yesterday's game. Any luck withthe Asian servers? I would expect a sizeablr Chinese/Korean population would still play. Rememeber when we used to make fun of dota players? Now I play it and long for the warcraft days
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Aug 22, 2016 14:01
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Chopstix posted:Any luck withthe Asian servers? I would expect a sizeablr Chinese/Korean population would still play. 3v3/4v4 was never big on kalimdor, they all play 1v1/2v2 on netease or w3arena or whatever
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Aug 22, 2016 17:38
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Chopstix posted:Any luck withthe Asian servers? I would expect a sizeablr Chinese/Korean population would still play. chopstix you should get together "The Cherryville Crew" or whatever and match us in 4v4 but no, our bots tell us that the only 4s AT being played on any server is 6am lossbotting for indeterminate gains
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Aug 23, 2016 05:07
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