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Koalas March posted:Colorism is so drat prevalent still. My little sister is darker than I and the way people treated us differently growing up taught me a lot about it. She used to say that wished she was lightskinned so she could be considered pretty. As I got older one thing I hate the most is hearing "You're pretty for a black girl". It's hosed up on so many levels. Holy poo poo. Some straight up dumb motherfuckers right there. So stupid they probably didn't even think they were being awful, did they? And it's poo poo like your sister said that breaks hearts.
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Aug 22, 2016 21:31
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gfsincere posted:You know what, this is all my fault. My bad for thinking I could have a productive conversation with someone from Alabama. I'm sure you have a cousin to gently caress somewhere. Are you loving kidding me, dude?
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Aug 22, 2016 21:31
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gfsincere posted:So does parts of Africa! Guess that makes all of our experiences exactly the same then! nutranurse has infinitely more in common with you than he has differences, and the points you're being picky over are insignificant. in other words, he's a real black person and your "nice meltdown" is 24 hours a day, every day
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Aug 22, 2016 21:31
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Rollofthedice posted:Nope no implicitly negative statements in here no sir Yes, there are reasons black people from the US don't get along with black immigrants from other countries. It's a thing in the black community. I can talk mad poo poo about him and still think black is beautiful all across the African diaspora.
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Aug 22, 2016 21:31
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RiotGearEpsilon posted:As a white guy I'd really love to wander in to this conversation but like a vampire I cannot do so without an invititation uh the last 500 years of world history happened because white people are awesome at going places they're not invited
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Aug 22, 2016 21:32
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Popular Thug Drink posted:uh the last 500 years of world history happened because white people are awesome at going places they're not invited
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Aug 22, 2016 21:32
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Popular Thug Drink posted:uh the last 500 years of world history happened because white people are awesome at going places they're not invited tryin' to break a streak here
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Aug 22, 2016 21:32
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foobardog posted:If black people cannot have an open discussion on very real political differences among ourselves, and are always going to have to be deferential to black movements over all else, we are neutering ourselves. It'd be like saying because you support animal welfare, it's best not to complain about how lovely PETA is. I actually love having those open discussions, but having them in an audience is a huge no-no how I was raised (and I've seen no reason to believe differently) and you can't have that discussion with everyone because all skinfolk ain't kinfolk.
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Aug 22, 2016 21:33
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Nessus posted:I think the reason people leap to genetics is because residual cultural programming strongly suggests some kind of fundamental difference in between people, like with Calvinism but extended into physical/genetic facts. This isn't because of "genetics" in the scientific sense (though these ideas may affect which things get researched and with how much effort), but in various ideas that float around, like "only stupid people are breeding" and so on. if you've* ever thought "oh my god idiocracy is coming true!" then it is, ironically, and you are the person the movie is making fun of *theoretical you not you, forums poster Nessus
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Aug 22, 2016 21:33
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gfsincere posted:You know what, this is all my fault. My bad for thinking I could have a productive conversation with someone from Alabama. I'm sure you have a cousin to gently caress somewhere. Don't you have some rocks to sling or a bodega to rob? Maybe you got some looting you need to finish up before cashing your sister's welfare check. See how lovely that sounds?
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Aug 22, 2016 21:33
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Fluffdaddy posted:Don't you have some rocks to sling or a bodega to rob? Maybe you got some looting you need to finish up before cashing your sister's welfare check. i read this not as a north/south insult, or urban/rural, but rather georgia/alabama. alabama really is our mississippi i can't vouch for gfsincere's georgianess though until he posts a picture of his truck
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Aug 22, 2016 21:34
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theflyingorc posted:nutranurse has infinitely more in common with you than he has differences, and the points you're being picky over are insignificant. So you supposed to know me and my whole life story? I can tell just from this convo that him and I have irreconcilable differences, so no, we don't, not on the things that matter. Oh and nice implication that I'm not a "real black person".
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Aug 22, 2016 21:34
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Talmonis posted:Truth. Some of us need good examples here and there. I don't know, maybe I misread something but I meant stuff like this Business Gorillas posted:tbf this is the logical conclusion of months of the internet telling people they can't have opinions on things because they're white/male/cis/whatever and equivicating black people on twitter with the alt-right
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Aug 22, 2016 21:35
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gfsincere posted:Yes, there are reasons black people from the US don't get along with black immigrants from other countries. It's a thing in the black community. I can talk mad poo poo about him and still think black is beautiful all across the African diaspora. Your method of showing that a jamaican immigrant might misunderstand the black experience is to compare them to a list of immigrant traits (that you deliberately paint as negative with the phrases "act like you know everything", "just as hosed up as the white people," "snide", and accusing them of lacking empathy or tact) that you consider universal. That is a textbook example of bigotry against both an individual and a class of people.
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Aug 22, 2016 21:35
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gfsincere posted:Except that's not what happened, but okay. I said I disagreed, and the posters who kept coming with stupid rear end strawmen to detail I called klansmen, and the black dude getting cosigned by said racists I called a sellout. But rewrite things however you like, we live in a post facts world. You literally called me a klansman for pointing out that selective breeding and eugenics weren't practices during slavery in a way that would impact genetics in the way you described.
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Aug 22, 2016 21:35
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gfsincere posted:Oh and nice implication that I'm not a "real black person". I think orc's point was that you are both 'real black people', insofar as that's even a thing.
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Aug 22, 2016 21:35
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gfsincere posted:So you supposed to know me and my whole So, wait, you know NN and his whole life story?
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Aug 22, 2016 21:35
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Popular Thug Drink posted:if you've* ever thought "oh my god idiocracy is coming true!" then it is, ironically, and you are the person the movie is making fun of
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Aug 22, 2016 21:36
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gfsincere posted:Oh and nice implication that I'm not a "real black person". That wasn't implied at all by the words that actually appeared in that post. What the gently caress, dude?
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Aug 22, 2016 21:36
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Fluffdaddy posted:Don't you have some rocks to sling or a bodega to rob? Maybe you got some looting you need to finish up before cashing your sister's welfare check. Oh so Alabama isn't 45th in education? Also nice outing yourself as a racist when I was implying because your state is a conservative shitshow with lovely education and you jumped straight to racism.
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Aug 22, 2016 21:36
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Trabisnikof posted:You literally called me a klansman for pointing out that selective breeding and eugenics weren't practices during slavery in a way that would impact genetics in the way you described. well, i *am* a klansman, but not for the reasons stated or any arguments i've made in this thread. just a lucky guess, really
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Aug 22, 2016 21:36
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gfsincere posted:I actually love having those open discussions, but having them in an audience is a huge no-no how I was raised (and I've seen no reason to believe differently) and you can't have that discussion with everyone because all skinfolk ain't kinfolk. If we were actually in person in public sure, I'm not having this conversation, but I said before on internet forums I honestly don't give a poo poo about what other posters who don't live this poo poo think. Hopefully seeing this conversation might cause them to see things differently but that's not my goal. But since I can easily ignore a post on a forum, rather than ignoring an rear end in a top hat in person It's fun to me.
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Aug 22, 2016 21:36
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gfsincere posted:Oh and nice implication that I'm not a "real black person". he's actually a black american, as are you, but only one of you is stuck in perpetual meltdown mode
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Aug 22, 2016 21:37
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gfsincere posted:Oh so Alabama isn't 45th in education? Yup. I'm the real racist here, Mr. Eugenics is totally a thing that happened.
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Aug 22, 2016 21:37
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Trabisnikof posted:You literally called me a klansman for pointing out that selective breeding and eugenics weren't practices during slavery in a way that would impact genetics in the way you described. No I called you one because you used lovely strawmen implying I said something I didn't. And your argument along with others that it wasn't practiced at all, and I categorically believe is false. Conflating the 2 is bad.
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Aug 22, 2016 21:37
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gfsincere posted:But I never accused him of misunderstanding the black experience because he wasn't dark enough, I said he misunderstood it because he's a Jamaican immigrant and as such doesn't have the same experiences as those who hail from the legacy of American slavery. I didn't say that was a bad or a good thing, just a thing. He kept wanting to fight it as if going to the museum is the same as living it. So I don't even know where this line of argument came up or how it got attached to me when I literally never made that argument. I made the argument that he was an online Rachel Dolezal, which is a completely different accusation. And that's been the line that many racists have moved on to. As it's become harder to directly attack skin color and descent, they've instead attacked black culture as a whole, which is insane because monolithic black culture is a ridiculous idea, even in America. But what this has led to is a response where we can't talk about real problems because they can deflect on some dumb rear end, or find a way to say "he was no angel". The claims of "not getting it because you're not really black (in the way I am)" can be true, but there's a value judgement in it even if you don't make it yourself. From one way, if you don't "act" black enough, you're an Uncle Tom sellout. And from the other way if you don't act like a stereotype, you're one of the "good ones". "Being Black Enough" is the new Paper Bag Test.
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Aug 22, 2016 21:38
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gfsincere posted:Oh so Alabama isn't 45th in education? You know what the layup counter to this is going to be don't you?
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Aug 22, 2016 21:38
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Kalman posted:So, wait, you know NN and his whole life story?
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Aug 22, 2016 21:38
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gfsincere posted:And your argument along with others that it wasn't practiced at all, and I categorically believe is false. you are wrong about this for many reasons
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Aug 22, 2016 21:38
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gfsincere posted:Oh so Alabama isn't 45th in education? See , this, this right here is a strawman The reason we're still arguing about this is that you refuse to engage with people telling you you're wrong and repeatedly make posts like this
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Aug 22, 2016 21:38
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for every racist white person that sees black people arguing and goes all "AH HA I KNEW THEY SUCK" I'm pretty sure there are more that learn more about the nuances of black life in america and are thus more able to empathize and more willing to call out their shithead friends.
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Aug 22, 2016 21:38
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Talmonis posted:Holy poo poo. Some straight up dumb motherfuckers right there. So stupid they probably didn't even think they were being awful, did they? They think that it's a compliment. Obviously it's not. One guy who said it at a club, I walked away from him and went to talk to my friends, he followed me and pulled my ponytail to try and great my attention again and thought he was being "cute". It ruined my night. And yeah, she is 21 now and she still has a little of internalized colorism. I've talked to her about it extensively, she just really feels that in our society you can't be attractive unless you look white. Which is obviously reinforced by the media. This is why I'm always pushing for more black leading ladies. Oddly enough, Iris West on The Flash had a big impact on her (and me too, tbh) which is why I'm always in The Flash thread pushing for Iris whenever anyone shits on her or her/Barry. I think people downplay how important of a role media portrayals are w/r/t what our society finds acceptable/good/attractive etc.
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Aug 22, 2016 21:39
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Koalas March posted:Colorism is so drat prevalent still. My little sister is darker than I and the way people treated us differently growing up taught me a lot about it. She used to say that wished she was lightskinned so she could be considered pretty. As I got older one thing I hate the most is hearing "You're pretty for a black girl". It's hosed up on so many levels. Oh trust me, I know. My little brother can pass, like cops-call-you-sir pass, and the differences in the way our families and friends interact with me and him is palpable. Apparently when I were babies I was so jealous of him that I'd unpin the hinges on his crib so he could fall down.
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Aug 22, 2016 21:39
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gfsincere posted:No I called you one because you used lovely strawmen implying I said something I didn't. No actually I said that eugenics wasn't practiced and selected breeding wasn't practiced at a population scale. You claimed as proof, the number of Black Americans at the olympics. You're just wrong and can't admit it.
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Aug 22, 2016 21:39
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gfsincere posted:Oh so Alabama isn't 45th in education?
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Aug 22, 2016 21:39
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gfsincere posted:Oh so Alabama isn't 45th in education?
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Aug 22, 2016 21:40
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Sharkie posted:I don't know, maybe I misread something but I meant stuff like this It's a stupid false equivalence, but I don't think it's a slight toward BLM, but more toward annoying Twitter and Tumblr people.
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Aug 22, 2016 21:40
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Dexo posted:If we were actually in person in public sure, I'm not having this conversation, but I said before on internet forums I honestly don't give a poo poo about what other posters who don't live this poo poo think. Hopefully seeing this conversation might cause them to see things differently but that's not my goal. I don't like to have them anywhere with an audience, but I can see and respect your point on it. And gently caress it, since we've already been doing it, let's keep it going! What's best (worst) is when people from other cultures that practice colorism and think it's bad openly and readily apply it to black people without a second thought. I've had Indian people hit me with the paper bag test because I was much lighter than them and work in tech, because apparently we're all dark skin thugs.
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Aug 22, 2016 21:41
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Koalas March posted:why I'm always in The Flash thread pushing for Iris whenever anyone shits on her or her/Barry. I know this aint true because you aren't literally by far the number one poster in that thread. Interested in your comment though, for all the meltdowns that go on anytime a white character is recast as a minority, I do wonder how much it matters to minority audiences.
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Aug 22, 2016 21:41
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Fluffdaddy posted:Except Jamaica has the same history of Chattel slavery that we do. Do you think them black folks swam over there? The gently caress are you on about? Jamaica's history of slavery was way more brutal! They couldn't get long lines of slave families going the way you did in America because the slaves were either worked to death/to the point of miscarriage in the sugar cane fields or straight up lost the will to live, have families. Spared them the emotional brutality of having to see families ripped apart, I guess.
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Aug 22, 2016 21:43
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