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Instead of cameras it will be Strange Days-like tech that just sits on your scalp and feeds your brain signals directly. Who gives a poo poo about screen res and dark plastic when you can feed a perfect experience into your brain directly?
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Aug 22, 2016 20:37
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Is there a reason VR Covers never took another round of preorders for the 6mm thin (FOV-boosting) replacement foam for the Vive? I have a pair of them and I just put them on for the first time, just wondering if there's some design flaw or something.
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Aug 22, 2016 22:43
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homeless snail posted:The CastAR last I heard has a clip on for doing exactly that Yeah exactly - all you need is a piece of plastic to block out the outside world and AR becomes VR. Maybe some backlights and a plastic diffuser if you need that to see the display. Cojawfee posted:I think we're going to see VR implementing more AR stuff before we see any AR good enough to even match VR. There was at least one guy who experimented with mounting a pair of 720p@60 webcams to the front of his DK1 with some modified wide-angle lenses. I've always had my eye on some of the PointGrey cameras, they have ones that can do 1080p@120fps which is enough for CV1/Vive usage, and they have the standard C/CS mount for CCTV surveillance camera lenses so you can get actual decent optics for them instead of hot-glued crap. If necessary you could even undo a fisheye projection as part of the image manipulation sequence, assuming you have enough rendering power. They're about $1k a pop plus optics, and the optics may increase the perceived weight pretty significantly since they have lots of leverage, and you'd also need a wearable backpack PC. The Vive is slightly better in theory because you don't need to maintain a tether to your lighthouses like you do the tracking cameras. However neither system is going to take real kindly to blocking a bunch of the tracking constellations. Depending on your setup I think it can be a problem even with a big pair of over-ear headphones, let alone with some camera modules on front. They really ought to make some extra constellation lights or tracking sensors that can clip onto the headband or something. Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 23:02 on Aug 22, 2016 |
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Aug 22, 2016 22:57
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Paul MaudDib posted:Is there a reason VR Covers never took another round of preorders for the 6mm thin (FOV-boosting) replacement foam for the Vive? I have a pair of them and I just put them on for the first time, just wondering if there's some design flaw or something. Fake Edit, July 28th quote:Thank you for contacting us. The HTC Vive Foam Replacement 6mm should be back in stock in a few weeks. Please subscribe to our newsletter on http://vr-cover.com for updates.
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Aug 22, 2016 23:05
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Paul MaudDib posted:Yeah exactly - all you need is a piece of plastic to block out the outside world and AR becomes VR. Maybe some backlights and a plastic diffuser if you need that to see the display. The CastAR isn't AR in the same way as most people think of it. It requires a special plate with an LED pattern on it for tracking and a special retroreflective sheet. The glasses have projectors on them and shoot onto the reflective sheet and then the light bounces back to your eyes. You could put a cover in front of the glasses but that's probably going to end up being a lot bigger than a Vive or a Rift. I'm not entirely sure what you mean by "you don't need to maintain a tether to your lighthouses." Any time the Vive loses tracking, the entire screen goes grey. The rift keeps on going with rotational tracking but moving your head could lead to motion sickness. I can see the reason for the Vive solutuon but it's incredibly annoying when it can't see a lighthouse for a second and the whole thing greys out.
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Aug 22, 2016 23:06
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Cojawfee posted:I'm not entirely sure what you mean by "you don't need to maintain a tether to your lighthouses." Any time the Vive loses tracking, the entire screen goes grey. The rift keeps on going with rotational tracking but moving your head could lead to motion sickness. I can see the reason for the Vive solutuon but it's incredibly annoying when it can't see a lighthouse for a second and the whole thing greys out. The Rift cameras need to be connected to the computer with USB 3.0. The Vive does not, because the Vive itself is doing the tracking and the lighthouses are just periodically sweeping the area with their beams. If you can carry your computer around with you, there's nothing stopping you from walking untethered around your play area with a Vive. Backpack computers are useless for the Rift, because you need to be tethered to your cameras anyway, so you might as well just plug the computer into a wall and use a HMD cable like normal. I've never had a problem with the Vive disconnecting when using the sync cable. I think if you can get the lighthouses up high it's pretty reliable, and in the future it should be possible to go up to three lighthouses for even more coverage. On top of that, the lighthouse has a really long range. Three of them would definitely get you up to like a warehouse-sized play space for commercial-style setups. The Rift starts getting funky past 6 feet and cuts out at 11 feet, and only supports a single camera right now. Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 23:34 on Aug 22, 2016 |
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Aug 22, 2016 23:32
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With the current sync solutions, I think the only way you could go 3+ light houses is with optical syncs or a redesign of the LH to allow for two sync cable ports. The LHs using alternating patterns, so adding additional LHs without them all being synced together could cause desync issues.Paul MaudDib posted:On top of that, the lighthouse has a really long range. Three of them would definitely get you up to like a warehouse-sized play space for commercial-style setups. The Rift starts getting funky past 6 feet and cuts out at 11 feet, and only supports a single camera right now. SlayVus fucked around with this message at 23:42 on Aug 22, 2016 |
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Aug 22, 2016 23:38
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^^^ Because they are in an empty warehouse that probably acts as a faraday cage. Your setup probably has a bunch of furniture in the room as well as a bunch of electronics in your house as well as all the interference from outside.Paul MaudDib posted:On top of that, the lighthouse has a really long range. Three of them would definitely get you up to like a warehouse-sized play space for commercial-style setups. The Rift starts getting funky past 6 feet and cuts out at 11 feet, and only supports a single camera right now. There's currently no way to do more than two lighthouses. Maybe if they released some new firmware for them that changed the timing. As of right now, there's only enough time in the cycle for two of them. The Rift currently supports up to four cameras.
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Aug 22, 2016 23:46
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SlayVus posted:With the current sync solutions, I think the only way you could go 3+ light houses is with optical syncs or a redesign of the LH to allow for two sync cable ports. Put them all on a single cable using Y splitter(s). The 'A' lighthouse clocks the cable, everyone syncs, and the other lighthouses fire round-robin. It's a straightforward modification of the "B" slave mode, should be doable with firmware updates. The only problem could be that if you have several lighthouses that are occluded that your refresh rate would start to deteriorate. Ideally you'd want the headset to be able to signal individual light houses to scan, so that it could only fire lighthouses that are within view of the headset. But that's kind of a niche edge case that would mostly only be applicable for AR where you have scenery. Cojawfee posted:^^^ Because they are in an empty warehouse that probably acts as a faraday cage. Your setup probably has a bunch of furniture in the room as well as a bunch of electronics in your house as well as all the interference from outside. The Vive uses optical scanning, not RF, so RF noise is not really relevant here. I'd say that it's more about having a nice vertical angle on the playing field, combined with a lack of reflective surfaces. Running the sync cable also really helps, if they're doing that. Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 00:01 on Aug 23, 2016 |
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Aug 22, 2016 23:55
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Paul MaudDib posted:
The lighthouses use bluetooth or RF to talk to each other if they are not connected via sync cable. RF noise most certainly does matter. orange juche fucked around with this message at 00:08 on Aug 23, 2016 |
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Aug 23, 2016 00:06
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Tokyo Sexwhale posted:The lighthouses use bluetooth to talk to each other if they are not connected via sync cable. RF noise most certainly does matter.
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Aug 23, 2016 00:07
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Cojawfee posted:There's currently no way to do more than two lighthouses. Maybe if they released some new firmware for them that changed the timing. As of right now, there's only enough time in the cycle for two of them. The Rift currently supports up to four cameras. Even if they did update the firmware, the sensors in the headset and wands can't support more than two basestations.
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Aug 23, 2016 01:38
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SlayVus posted:I've seen the StressLevelZero have a warehouse style setup already with just the two LHs. They did 27' apart and had no sync issues, which I want to know how... I have sync issues with them just 6.6m apart. They used a cable for the lighthouse sync. Isn't the included sync cable like 50' long? Tokyo Sexwhale posted:The lighthouses use bluetooth or RF to talk to each other if they are not connected via sync cable. RF noise most certainly does matter. Nah, the bluetooth is for communicating between the computer and the lighthouse. The Lighthouses use the same IR to sync with each other as to track the headset. It's just more of an issue since the lighthouses are going to be further apart with the Vive in the middle. Poetic Justice posted:Even if they did update the firmware, the sensors in the headset and wands can't support more than two basestations. It's just a timing issue, so the headset and wands could be made to support more than two basestations with a software update. The real issue is refresh rate; currently Lighthouse 1 will scan the room, then Lighthouse 2 will scan, etc. Adding a third or forth lighthouse, assuming you had a way to sync them, would increase the delay between each individual lighthouse scanning. Eventually you'd reach a point where the delays were too long. There's probably a way to deal with that, but it would be a more complex problem to solve. Bremen fucked around with this message at 02:30 on Aug 23, 2016 |
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Aug 23, 2016 02:22
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Valve was talking about scaling up to N base stations supporting 10s of people in the same simulation. Based on what I've read it sounds like whoever is in charge of their BT drivers is really terrible at their job. Valve needs to learn to walk before they can run. It wouldn't surprise me if Lighthouse hardware v2 or v3 supports multiple lighthouses. That they're opening up the lighthouse spec to third parties sort of makes me think that N lighthouse technology is mature enough to start publishing a draft spec. Now that I think about it, occulus' delay on the hand tracking might even be a retooling of their product to support lighthouse technology? Just because they shipped their developers camera based tracking doesn't mean they can't change the hardware. After all the developers just use an API; the hardware is way abstracted away.
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Aug 23, 2016 02:39
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Alan Yates has talked a bit about multiple lighthouse configurations, and it sounds like the current hardware is specifically designed to work in an asynchronous scheme that distinguishes the lighthouses based on each one rotating at different spinrates that are prime to each other, and possibly varying modulation also, the info that's out there is kind of vague right now. TDM is a way simpler scheme that works just fine with 2 lighthouses though. Maybe we'll see the async stuff surface later on.
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Aug 23, 2016 03:03
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Hadlock posted:Now that I think about it, occulus' delay on the hand tracking might even be a retooling of their product to support lighthouse technology? Just because they shipped their developers camera based tracking doesn't mean they can't change the hardware. After all the developers just use an API; the hardware is way abstracted away. You mean Touch? No, Touch is still going to use cameras. They're really completely different technologies, and it's going to be interesting to see what gets used for what.
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Aug 23, 2016 03:06
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patentmagus posted:Agreed - but at that point the distinction blurs and will become meaningless. My personal expectation is that it'll all just end up being porn anyway
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Aug 23, 2016 03:09
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Bremen posted:It's just a timing issue, so the headset and wands could be made to support more than two basestations with a software update. The real issue is refresh rate; currently Lighthouse 1 will scan the room, then Lighthouse 2 will scan, etc. Adding a third or forth lighthouse, assuming you had a way to sync them, would increase the delay between each individual lighthouse scanning. Eventually you'd reach a point where the delays were too long. There's probably a way to deal with that, but it would be a more complex problem to solve. Alan Yates has tweeted that this generation of sensors in the headset and controllers only support TDM. somethingawful bf fucked around with this message at 03:30 on Aug 23, 2016 |
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Aug 23, 2016 03:27
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Hadlock posted:Valve was talking about scaling up to N base stations supporting 10s of people in the same simulation. Based on what I've read it sounds like whoever is in charge of their BT drivers is really terrible at their job. Valve needs to learn to walk before they can run. It wouldn't surprise me if Lighthouse hardware v2 or v3 supports multiple lighthouses. Please link this, that's fascinating as poo poo. It makes sense though, the time deltas can be factored and that's your lighthouse numbers.
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Aug 23, 2016 03:29
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Poetic Justice posted:Alan Yates has tweeted that this generation of sensors in the headset and controllers only support TDM. Yeah, but that doesn't mean they can't be set up to use more than two lighthouses, just that it runs in to the refresh rate issue I mentioned.
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Aug 23, 2016 03:37
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Bremen posted:Yeah, but that doesn't mean they can't be set up to use more than two lighthouses, just that it runs in to the refresh rate issue I mentioned. Adding a 3rd would reduce it to 45hz, which is pretty low, and I'm not sure if that would be high enough for good tracking?
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Aug 23, 2016 03:39
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Poetic Justice posted:Adding a 3rd would reduce it to 45hz, which is pretty low, and I'm not sure if that would be high enough for good tracking? If you're in view of all three base stations, you'd in theory track at the same rate (the Vive can determine position off just one base station). Similarly, the tracking would be the same with one basestation occluded (technically, it would be faster, but irregular; the longest gaps between tracking updates would be the same, they'd just happen less often). It would only really be an issue if you were occluded to two of the base stations and only visible to a third, but then the tracking might start to get kinda drifty, yeah. Unfortunately it gets more problematic with 4; even assuming you're tracked by 2 of the four stations at any one time, if those two stations are sequential then you'd have a long spike with no new tracking info while the other two ran. In practice the main benefit of more than two basestations would be if you were going to have large occluded areas tracked, for instance, two rooms with a pair of base stations in each (or just one very large room), and that would work poorly due to the sequential tracking format. There's not much benefit to having more than two in one area since, as above, being tracked by 2/3 is pretty identical to being tracked by 1/2. So there probably isn't much reason to add support for more than two base stations until they solve the refresh issue. Bremen fucked around with this message at 03:55 on Aug 23, 2016 |
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Aug 23, 2016 03:52
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Poetic Justice posted:Alan Yates has tweeted that this generation of sensors in the headset and controllers only support TDM. I doubt they're gonna do TDM for more than 2 stations though, you're probably right about that.
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Aug 23, 2016 03:54
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homeless snail posted:He's said that the current sensors can't do FDM, because they're designed around a fixed oscillator. The async mode is still a thing though and shouldn't require new sensors. You are exactly right, that is what he said, I was just going off memory 
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Aug 23, 2016 04:01
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Paul MaudDib posted:On top of that, the lighthouse has a really long range. Three of them would definitely get you up to like a warehouse-sized play space for commercial-style setups. The Rift starts getting funky past 6 feet and cuts out at 11 feet, and only supports a single camera right now. The Rift supports up to 4 cameras since an update last month.
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Aug 23, 2016 12:51
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Paul MaudDib posted:Please link this, that's fascinating as poo poo. It makes sense though, the time deltas can be factored and that's your lighthouse numbers. I'll have to look for the article later but the valve dev specifically mentioned having 25 people in one room at the same time. This got me thinking about a sort of battery powered VR counterstrike. Then I found an article from a couple years ago, maybe 2008 where the military was doing just that, but for mission operations training. Long term I'm guessing you'll be able to rent a gym that's ringed by ~8-16 lighthouse units, plus a couple hanging from the ceiling. Eventually the price of the unit will come down below $30 per lighthouse until and I can see neckbeards setting up two or three in the living room and attached rooms for some setups. But in that gym scenario, that's basically a holodeck that you could rent by the hour for counterstrike matches. Your daydream smartphone goggles might even come with lighthouse technology. There's no reason why you couldn't do a lightweight version of Quake 1 in VR on a modern cellphone and pipe in lighthouse positioning info. Hadlock fucked around with this message at 22:21 on Aug 23, 2016 |
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Aug 23, 2016 22:12
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For anyone playing New Retro Arcade Neon (I know there is one of you), that is having trouble getting Williams games like Defender or Joust or Sinistar to run because you can't access the operator menu to get past the initial ROM boot, there is a workaround here: http://steamcommunity.com/app/465780/discussions/0/355043117523384876/ Not exactly an elegant solution, but it works for now.
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Aug 24, 2016 02:57
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I'm looking for weird/experimental/concept/half-done poo poo. Trying out weird VR things is one of the main reasons I didn't want to wait for PSVR. Where should I be looking?
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Aug 24, 2016 04:22
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AndrewP posted:I'm looking for weird/experimental/concept/half-done poo poo. Trying out weird VR things is one of the main reasons I didn't want to wait for PSVR. Where should I be looking?
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Aug 24, 2016 04:28
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homeless snail posted:https://itch.io/games/tag-virtual-reality has a bunch, probably want to filter down there's a lot of old DK2 poo poo on there Aw yeah, perfect. Though I see I won't get to take advantage of a lot of these without Vive hands, darn.
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Aug 24, 2016 04:40
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Covered the mirror in my room and it went a long way towards reducing vive glitches especially with the controllers. Also tried out minecraft vr and it's p cool.
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Aug 24, 2016 07:04
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Has anyone tried out Ark in VR? http://www.express.co.uk/entertainment/gaming/696863/ARK-Survival-Evolved-VR-support-Oculus-Rift-Major-update-PC-Steam Seems like it'd be impossible to run smoothly, it's CryEngine right?
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Aug 24, 2016 15:48
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Any good sites for finding GearVR app reviews/recommendations ?
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Aug 24, 2016 23:02
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Hadlock posted:Now that I think about it, occulus' delay on the hand tracking might even be a retooling of their product to support lighthouse technology? No.
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Aug 24, 2016 23:09
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Fated: the Silent Oath was good. VR just seems so perfect as a new platform for adventure games/narrative experiences like that. You really can get closer to the characters in a VR story than in any other medium. Anything else like it on Oculus at the mo? I'm gonna check out Edge of Nowhere at some point probably but apart from that...
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Aug 24, 2016 23:20
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Hadlock posted:Now that I think about it, occulus' delay on the hand tracking might even be a retooling of their product to support lighthouse technology? For them to support lighthouses they need to add IR sensors to the controller. This requires more power usage from the controller, which are already sized limited to small internal batteries.
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Aug 25, 2016 01:04
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Hadlock posted:Now that I think about it, occulus' delay on the hand tracking might even be a retooling of their product to support lighthouse technology? Just because they shipped their developers camera based tracking doesn't mean they can't change the hardware. After all the developers just use an API; the hardware is way abstracted away.
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Aug 25, 2016 02:40
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AndrewP posted:Upgrading to Windows 10 seemed to solve the problem. So on that note, I fiddled with the V app some more (the OculusVR overlay thing) and was able to get it working in the Oculus Home Launched version of Elite!  Behold! Balls of Fury running through Plex in Elite in OculusVR!  Guess were I will be this weekend... It allows you to move around and pin the window wherever you want in your view. The Screenshot comes from the Mirror window which makes it look all messed up. Also if you are having issues with it after updating to Windows 10 Anniversary Update for those of you in the Alpha already, Windows broke Chromium again so if you launch V in Compatibility mode for Win8, the browser windows will work again. Yay! 
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Aug 25, 2016 03:37
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EdEddnEddy posted:So on that note, I fiddled with the V app some more (the OculusVR overlay thing) and was able to get it working in the Oculus Home Launched version of Elite! Welp, time for me to sign up for this beta! In other news, Pinball FX VR came out with a DLC pack for $24.99 that has five new tables. Not all are great, but it has Paranormal, which is one of my favorite early tables by these guys, and I like VR Pinball, so I couldn't resist grabbing it.
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Aug 25, 2016 04:07
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I really wish they had stuck to the model they use with the normal game. Release a free version with a couple included tables and then add more tables as paid DLC. I might actually consider the game if I knew I was getting into. I'm not super into pinball so I don't really feel like dropping 15 bucks to see what it's like,
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Aug 25, 2016 05:32
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