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flashman posted:You are all jastiger tier with your balance ideas and whines, and presumably terrible at this game. Let's not say things we can't take back. k?
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Aug 23, 2016 16:04
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:Yes, and that's okay. And that's the way it will always work, because of the way acting and reacting are inherently structured. This means that genji's ult will inherently have an advantage over Zen's ult, and doesn't need to additionally be two seconds longer to give it a "competitive edge"
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Aug 23, 2016 16:11
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Bushiz posted:And that's the way it will always work, because of the way acting and reacting are inherently structured. This means that genji's ult will inherently have an advantage over Zen's ult, and doesn't need to additionally be two seconds longer to give it a "competitive edge" Taking away the 2 seconds would be a sensible first change if Genji needed to be nerfed, although making his ult cost more, so that he can't ult as often as Zenyatta, would make more sense. (Specifically to preserve that "breaking the defense on a final push" scenario that is helped by those extra two seconds.) However, well, you know where I'm going with this.
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Aug 23, 2016 16:15
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im gay posted:uh so when the gently caress is this patch and season 2 https://twitter.com/PlayOverwatch/status/766765315359330304 The balance patch and new map might go live sooner though. Time will tell.
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Aug 23, 2016 16:21
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If you want to talk about top 500 games I was at sr 75 and played a bunch of games with/against top 500 players. Eveyone whined about genji in those games too. The only thing I find objectionable about genji is how little positioning matters to him. He can climb over some wall, dash, ult, dash, proabably get one kill and dash again. So you have to stay around 3 dash lengths away from him to be safe, while still being close to the objective (and a friend, if youre a class that cant kill him). Even if you're far away from him it's difficult to draw a bead on him with how much he zips around. I'd like to see the reset on his dash changed somehow. The triple jump nerf doesnt change anything, it just seems kind of mean. Oh yeah, and they should shrink the hitbox on his reflect. Its even worse than elphelt c.s.
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Aug 23, 2016 16:26
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CaptainScraps posted:Today's game for quickplay: I love this, but can mine be Geordi instead?
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Aug 23, 2016 16:52
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MacheteZombie posted:Yeah I don't think the map will go live as is. They're going to have to shift some things around to open it up a bit for attackers. It feels really defense oriented, then again I'm still learning the ins n outs of it. I think the first two thirds are probably fine. Point A actually feels unusually attacker-friendly compared to the other Point As in the game. If anything changes, I'm guessing it'd be in the final segment, but two weeks isn't nearly enough time to rearrange anything substantial. The easiest change would be to leave the castle gate open permanently, but that could end up being too drastic an overcorrection.
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Aug 23, 2016 17:28
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FaustianQ posted:McCree was hit really hard, but fairly, enough so that Soldier completely overshadowed him (they exist in the same design space though and really should change that). Even now, McCree is falling out of favor for Tracer/Genji because the McCree/Zen meta was strong enough to come up with a hard counter to it (as McCree is rear end at being an antiflanker I have no idea what they were thinking). I wouldn't say McCree is falling out of favor when he was run in every match by every team in ESL just last weekend. Genji, Tracer and Reaper all made less appearances overall.
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Aug 23, 2016 17:50
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Just noticed the obligatory dark souls reference in the new map. Cute.
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Aug 23, 2016 17:58
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Supercar Gautier posted:I think the first two thirds are probably fine. Point A actually feels unusually attacker-friendly compared to the other Point As in the game. what i noticed was that the biggest problem for attackers is pushing through both the initial gates after point A and the main castle gate. both gates funnel ground-bound attackers through those tiny, tiny rooms on either side which leave you super vulnerable to scatter arrows/flashbang/mei walls. i don't think any other map has this many hard chokepoints. however i will keep in mind that while i used to think hanamura and anubis chokepoints were stupid and awful, i don't really think that anymore now that people generally know how to successfully flank and push through. i think it will get better eventually.
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Aug 23, 2016 18:02
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ThisIsACoolGuy posted:I just enjoy the irony of people calling Genji mains salty or crybabies when the only reason it's happening is because "waaah blizzard I can't aim and kill him he's OP" I can too aim. It's just that he's never there when I finish aiming
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Aug 23, 2016 18:17
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For everyone having mental breakdowns about Genji in his current state: Figure out how to play Winston and repeatedly kill him until he switches to Reaper. If you're getting outmaneuvered and killed by Genji you aren't Winstoning right. The only time that he should be killing you is if he's ulting and focusing explicitly on killing you before moving on to softer targets or if you overextended and try to escape past him with a fraction of your health left and no jump. Or be a solid Reinhardt and fire strike him and then beat him to death when he ults. That's a thing too. If he doesn't come near you either shield your team against him, or shield your team against the rest of the enemy team while they deal with him. Both of these tanks work perfectly well even into the top 500 games against top 500 Genji mains. Further edit: But seriously. Just loving play Winston and make the Genji player's life hell until one of two things happens- One, the enemy team loses because they have a completely ineffectual Genji who is spending more time electrocuted to death than plinking people with shurikens in a desperate bid to get a chance to swing his sword or two, he switches to reaper and then you can switch to whoever the gently caress you want to play since the problem is dealt with. If you're in quickplay just take two Winstons because he is incredibly broken in pairs and his time to kill if you both land on the same target with jump packs is less than a second. You can electrocute everyone and then also kill Genji wherever he is. Commoners fucked around with this message at 18:30 on Aug 23, 2016 |
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Aug 23, 2016 18:23
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Commoners posted:For everyone having mental breakdowns about Genji in his current state: Figure out how to play Winston and repeatedly kill him until he switches to Reaper. If you're getting outmaneuvered and killed by Genji you aren't Winstoning right. The only time that he should be killing you is if he's ulting and focusing explicitly on killing you before moving on to softer targets or if you overextended and try to escape past him with a fraction of your health left and no jump. I despise Genji and welcome any nerf he gets but yeah this is really solid advice. Winston , especially a jumping Winston, is just a "gently caress you" to Genji. Follow the guide to playing a scientist correctly and marvel when a Genji ult's and dashes past your entire team just to murder you. It's hilarious.
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Aug 23, 2016 18:28
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Just saying it doesn't actually make it true. Hitscan weapons have trouble hitting triple jumping reflecting Genji, let alone a slow moving firestrike, mean time he has meleed you through the shield and moved behind you, and then jumped away again before Reinhardt even starts a hammer swing. Any Genji that dies to a Reinhardt ever is a first gamer.
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Aug 23, 2016 18:30
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:Taking away the 2 seconds would be a sensible first change if Genji needed to be nerfed, although making his ult cost more, so that he can't ult as often as Zenyatta, would make more sense. (Specifically to preserve that "breaking the defense on a final push" scenario that is helped by those extra two seconds.) It was needed because it outlasted Transcendence and there's is literally zero counter play to a Dragonblade besides speed boost and pray or killing the Genji. Every other ult in the game has 3-4 things you can to either mitigate their effectiveness, be it from positioning, having certain heroes on your team, or just killing the target because the actual use of the ult makes them extremely vulnerable (McCree, Pharah, Reaper). TrashGenji69 could just hurl shurikens for a minute build up his ult, pop Dragonblade and be guaranteed at least 2 kills, usually supports unless they were utterly worthless. The loving irony in all this bitching about the Genji nerfs is that it's actually gotten easier to do team wipes with Dragonblade because Zenyatta isn't a 100% pickrate anymore.
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Aug 23, 2016 18:31
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NTRabbit posted:Personally I don't give a gently caress about your tourny meta, I'm talking about quickplay, where I've just finished playing against a Genji on Numbani who wiped the entire team 4 times without losing his life once, or letting us reach the first cap. lol you are really bad at this game
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Aug 23, 2016 18:31
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NTRabbit posted:Just saying it doesn't actually make it true. I feel like this is a weird thing to say, considering you've been making genji out to be a living god who never dies and wipes whole teams every minute.
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Aug 23, 2016 18:32
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NTRabbit posted:Just saying it doesn't actually make it true. Hitscan weapons have trouble hitting triple jumping reflecting Genji, let alone a slow moving firestrike, mean time he has meleed you through the shield and moved behind you, and then jumped away again before Reinhardt even starts a hammer swing. Any Genji that dies to a Reinhardt ever is a first gamer. Then I guess my pile of top 500 Genji main skulls extracted from their bodies via hammer just means that all Genji mains are all bad. The only tank that has an excuse for struggling against Genji is Zarya, and if you're failing to protect your teammates against him you aren't doing your job properly.
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Aug 23, 2016 18:33
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voltron lion force posted:I feel like this is a weird thing to say, considering you've been making genji out to be a living god who never dies and wipes whole teams every minute. Which he does any time he's in the hands of a player who reaches the skill ceiling for him. Sounds like most of you have just not been playing quickmatch any time since ranked started.
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Aug 23, 2016 18:34
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Seriously though play Winston. He is super fun and poops all over basically all the squishy characters. Hating Genji is the reason I picked up the scientist and I giggle with glee whenever a Genji thinks dashing away is enough, only to turn and see a pissed off scientist rocketing through the air after him.
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Aug 23, 2016 18:34
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Bolow posted:It was needed because it outlasted Transcendence and there's is literally zero counter play to a Dragonblade besides speed boost and pray or killing the Genji. It kinda just sounds like you only play Zen. Nerfed ult gives him 5-6 swings max, which is enough to kill 2-3 squishy heroes if they're clustered and their team isn't paying any attention to you. If you are actually playing in PTR and seeing lots of "team wipes," you should reconsider your strategy.
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Aug 23, 2016 18:35
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Fibby Boy posted:Seriously though play Winston. He is super fun and poops all over basically all the squishy characters. Hating Genji is the reason I picked up the scientist and I giggle with glee whenever a Genji thinks dashing away is enough, only to turn and see a pissed off scientist rocketing through the air after him. It's really not much fun either, because Genji just murders the rest of the team, and I either get ulted from the buildup, or lose quickly to the other 5 members of the team because Winston has poor staying power compared to all the other tanks. He completely sucks the fun out of playing, which is why he's getting the deserved nerf.
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Aug 23, 2016 18:37
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It's stupid easy to get a Mercy POTG on PTR. They can't go live like this. Res two people and heal a bit is not a play of the match.
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Aug 23, 2016 18:38
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NTRabbit posted:Which he does any time he's in the hands of a player who reaches the skill ceiling for him. Sounds like most of you have just not been playing quickmatch any time since ranked started. Actually I did play quickplay to help a friend grind out summer loot boxes after ranked ended. I made a big post about it in the whining thread and I stuck to it. Sorta. I did stop playing by myself but sucked it up and played again to help. The guy up there is 100% correct in his statement.
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Aug 23, 2016 18:39
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Commoners posted:The only tank that has an excuse for struggling against Genji is Zarya, and if you're failing to protect your teammates against him you aren't doing your job properly. Can you elaborate on this? I thought she was relatively good against him since she can go through reflect.
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Aug 23, 2016 18:40
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Mr. Whale posted:Can you elaborate on this? I thought she was relatively good against him since she can go through reflect. Her beam can yeah but why would a Genji stand in range of that for any period of time at all when he has ridiculous mobility to get away from it?
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Aug 23, 2016 18:41
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Commoners posted:Then I guess my pile of top 500 Genji main skulls extracted from their bodies via hammer just means that all Genji mains are all bad. The only tank that has an excuse for struggling against Genji is Zarya, and if you're failing to protect your teammates against him you aren't doing your job properly. You can only do batting practice against him if he's going in solo though. Otherwise you're just inviting the rest of the enemy team to mulch your large precision german engineered rear end along with the rest of your team. Though Rein feels much better at swatting him the gently caress away than Winston does Brosnan posted:It kinda just sounds like you only play Zen. Nerfed ult gives him 5-6 swings max, which is enough to kill 2-3 squishy heroes if they're clustered and their team isn't paying any attention to you. If you are actually playing in PTR and seeing lots of "team wipes," you should reconsider your strategy. Rein and Zarya mostly. Most team wipes are paired with something like Earthshatter/Graviton to ensure maximum effectiveness because the reduced duration forces them to actually worry about enemy positioning like everyone else has to.
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Aug 23, 2016 18:41
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Mr. Whale posted:Can you elaborate on this? I thought she was relatively good against him since she can go through reflect. She can be bullied really hard by Genji and has no mobility to be able to disengage from him or engage against him. If he manages to get her to pop shield against him, he has already won because now Zarya is completely vulnerable to much more dangerous things than shuriken plinking, and if she doesn't then he is getting his charge just like he wants. Other tanks can mitigate his damage, threaten him with immediate death, and/or dog him down and murder him. He's also able to escape her ult and is able to cut her to ribbons when he ults whether or not she has her bubble available. Being able to shoot through his reflection is the only thing she really has on him, and as long as she can track targets she can kill Genji if he doesn't decide to disengage.
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Aug 23, 2016 18:46
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Bolow posted:Rein and Zarya mostly. Most team wipes are paired with something like Earthshatter/Graviton to ensure maximum effectiveness because the reduced duration forces them to actually worry about enemy positioning like everyone else has to. Do you feel that two well-placed offensive ults paired together without a defensive one in response shouldn't result in a team dying?
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Aug 23, 2016 18:46
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PersonalGenius posted:I love this, but can mine be Geordi instead? God yes. My girlfriend likes it to be Wesley because of Star Trek, I just thought it was a good name for an annoying baby. Wesley either HATES it or LOVES IT
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Aug 23, 2016 18:47
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All of the team wipes on my team usually come when you hear an amalgamation of DIE DIE DIE, NERF THIS, I'm going for the torbnestii, and USING THE KAIO-KEN! There's others but that is the most common team wipe I experience when playing this game.
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Aug 23, 2016 18:49
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FuriousxGeorge posted:It's stupid easy to get a Mercy POTG on PTR. They can't go live like this. Res two people and heal a bit is not a play of the match. Well neither is killing 2.5 injured guys but it gets potg constantly on live
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Aug 23, 2016 18:50
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The best way to fight Genji is to become genji and have a ludicrous mid-air battle.
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Aug 23, 2016 18:50
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Mr. Whale posted:Can you elaborate on this? I thought she was relatively good against him since she can go through reflect. Because of the oddness with dealing with her projected barriers mostly. There's 2 hit boxes, the actual bubble it self, and the character that's shielded. Shooting either gives Zarya energy, it also allows you to double dip against certain abilities. It's why Firestrike and Symmetra orbs give you and immediate 50 energy if you take one center mass. If they only clip the shield itself you get 25 energy instead. Dragonblade also pierces barriers so despite it doing 120 damage it just instantly pops the barrier anyway because it hits the bubble and player model simultaneously. It's like a 70-30 die/live chance Zarya vs Genji for me. Most of it involves hitting him with the primary fire then shooting the ground as he comes to gently caress me up and hoping my team damage him enough that it kill him. If it took 2 Dragonblade hits to break a barrier instead of one it would be completely game changing in that matchup. I'm not sure how I feel in regards of it though, because I really like getting 50 energy for free from Symmetra/Rein but I loving hate Genji. Brosnan posted:Do you feel that two well-placed offensive ults paired together without a defensive one in response shouldn't result in a team dying? Of course it should. The problem with 8 second Dragonblade is that it outlasted the defensive ults so at least 1-2 people were going to die regardless. I have no problem with Dragonblade being capable of forcing out a support ult immediately. Bolow fucked around with this message at 18:56 on Aug 23, 2016 |
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Aug 23, 2016 18:53
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Custom game all cooldows removed genji only.
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Aug 23, 2016 18:54
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Zarya/Genji is kind of a wash. Genji won't win a 1:1 dogfight against a decent Zarya (unless he burns his entire ult hacking her down, which is stupid), but he has the freedom to disengage. She's generally not going to be alone anyway, so on the whole Genji's time is better spent looking for more vulnerable heroes.
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Aug 23, 2016 18:56
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Bolow posted:Of course it should. The problem with 8 second Dragonblade is that it outlasted the defensive ults so at least 1-2 people were going to die regardless. I have no problem with Dragonblade being capable of forcing out a support ult immediately. I more or less agree. 6 second Dragonblade is a reasonable change (it would be cool if per-swing damage was slightly higher, so that the ult still loses flat-out to defensive ults but can still do comparable damage to Reaper's, but that won't happen).
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Aug 23, 2016 18:58
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Custom game; Only genji, 20 player limit, 50% faster ult charge
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Aug 23, 2016 18:58
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Zzulu posted:Custom game; Only genji, 20 player limit, 50% faster ult charge I'd play the gently caress out of an only Genji brawl, Genji duels are fun as hell.
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Aug 23, 2016 19:01
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At high and low levels too much of Genji's value was built into DB. At high levels, good players became gods. At low levels, lovely players could stack enough bodies in a short period of time to make up for several minutes of being useless heaps. (Even I got the 4 kills with DB achievement in my first 90 minutes on Genji and I'm garbage at the dude.) The dash resets, jumps, and incredibly forgiving hitbox on the sword like he's swinging around a goddamn boxcar were miserable and counterplay was limited. Flashbang a jumping or dashing Genji and his movement continues and the flash wears off before he's even hit the ground. Hook gives you one skillshot on the most mobile guy in the game who gets even more mobile with the resets and you still have to bait out reflect. And even if these hit, the ult persists, an effect limited to, what, Dragon Blade, Nano Boost, and Molten Core? I don't personally like them going after the extra jump and animation cancel but something had to be done about Dragon Blade.
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