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DangerousDan posted:It's the same thing when you see the Azov Battalion doing Nazi salutes and posing with Swastikas. It's like - dude do you not realize what Hitler thought of Slavs lol. anilEhilated posted:The reason why they considered him a muslim? He has a beard.
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Aug 24, 2016 14:37
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Right, you can always say that HItler was right, he just threw in his lot with the wrong nation of supermen.
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Aug 24, 2016 14:49
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DangerousDan posted:This is why the whole thing is crazy and masochistic. If someone in '47 had openly called for a Czarist restoration, while admittedly praising the Great Leader, they'd have ended up floating in the loving Neva. Hindsight does crazy things to analysis, leads us down all sorts of bizarre paths of justification. It is, at its core, an insanity. Wishing repression upon oneself - I'm sure Freudian hacks could make reams of lovely arguments about this complex.
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Aug 24, 2016 14:59
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Dwesa posted:It's just cherry-picking of history again. Holodomor yes, but Generalplan Ost is a western propaganda and they can deny it like Holocaust or anything else. Considering Holodomor, one can see why nazis were seen as liberators in some EE countries. Also, it's not unusual to see local varieties of neonazis that basically only replaced Germans with Slavs as chosen people in their ideology. Yeah, because Europeans have no culture or history of beard wearing 
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Aug 24, 2016 15:16
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woodenchicken posted:Every Stalinist I know believes Stalin's terror was hugely exaggerated/ non existent actually. A few corrupt assholes got theirs, but that's it. Or they just accept the terror as good and just. There was a stink in Moscow last week when some representative of the Moscow patriarchate went on radio and said Stalin did good by mass murdering people because enemies of the nation and God deserve to be murdered and should be murdered and their murders serve as an example to the rest of society to be faithful to God and country. He said Stalin was only cleansing Russia and carrying out the will of God and the people. Even the host was shocked.
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Aug 24, 2016 15:20
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DangerousDan posted:It's the same thing when you see the Azov Battalion doing Nazi salutes and posing with Swastikas. It's like - dude do you not realize what Hitler thought of Slavs lol. Dude, that's nothing.
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Aug 24, 2016 15:22
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You don't need to be a crazy Ukrainian paramilitary to think Hitler was cool and good: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andranik_Migranyan
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Aug 24, 2016 15:32
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cargo cult posted:Russians were supposed to be given vouchers in state owned industries that were being privatized but of course the only people with any business experience were literal gangsters and smugglers, and welp, here we are. Dwesa posted:I read somewhere a conspiracy theory that current popularity of beards can be attributed to secret attempts to make Europeans comfortable with muslim immigrants (and then something about muslim takeover, NWO and blah blah), because apparently beards = muslims.
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Aug 24, 2016 16:24
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Pizdec posted:What current popularity of beards? Hipsters?
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Aug 24, 2016 16:39
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Pizdec posted:Didn't Czechoslovakia get the same treatment with better results? I think I know 2 males without beards, and only because they can't grow them nicely.
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Aug 24, 2016 18:07
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Pizdec posted:Didn't Czechoslovakia get the same treatment with better results? The same model was used also in Poland and elsewhere, but universally it was... Problematic. There were always scammers, and even in more successful countries the losses incurred by common citizens went into the billions. The idea was to give everybody a chance to invest into select national corporations (not all businesses were offered in exchange for vouchers), but people were gullible, and often put their vouchers into mutual funds schemes whose managers took off with their money. Nowadays it's one of the privatization methods that the World Bank advises against. Related anecdote:The word "tunneling" (financial fraud where a person trusted with managing assets instead covertly "tunnels" them to his own accounts) is taught in Czech ESL classes alongside "robot" as one of few Czech words that gained some popularity in English, and originates specifically in the period of "wild privatization" of the early 1990s. steinrokkan fucked around with this message at 18:54 on Aug 24, 2016 |
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Aug 24, 2016 18:50
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A Pale Horse posted:Or they just accept the terror as good and just. There was a stink in Moscow last week when some representative of the Moscow patriarchate went on radio and said Stalin did good by mass murdering people because enemies of the nation and God deserve to be murdered and should be murdered and their murders serve as an example to the rest of society to be faithful to God and country. He said Stalin was only cleansing Russia and carrying out the will of God and the people. Even the host was shocked. I'm socialist but pretty close to the communist end of things and I've met some creepy communists who seemed to regard purges and mass killings as a feature, not a bug, of communism and I wouldn't be surprised if they kept lists of people they'd kill if their revolution ever happened.
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Aug 24, 2016 20:44
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cargo cult posted:Jeffrey Sachs lead the charge on Shock Therapy based on basically nothing, and pushed it on people who had no concept of business or economics and now Russia is a total kleptocracy was my main take away from my one post-soviet politics course. Russians were supposed to be given vouchers in state owned industries that were being privatized but of course the only people with any business experience were literal gangsters and smugglers, and welp, here we are. Or they did exactly what they were supposed to and permanently crippled Russia as a world power with incompetent neoliberal bullshit economics. That's more how I figure it went. Shock Therapy was meant as straight up warfare and worked brilliantly at keeping Russia out of ever entering the 21st century. Like you needed more bodies to lay at the feet of Clintons.
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Aug 24, 2016 21:17
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chairface posted:Or they did exactly what they were supposed to and permanently crippled Russia as a world power with incompetent neoliberal bullshit economics. That's more how I figure it went. Shock Therapy was meant as straight up warfare and worked brilliantly at keeping Russia out of ever entering the 21st century. Like you needed more bodies to lay at the feet of Clintons. jeez
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Aug 24, 2016 22:00
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chairface posted:Or they did exactly what they were supposed to and permanently crippled Russia as a world power with incompetent neoliberal bullshit economics. That's more how I figure it went. Shock Therapy was meant as straight up warfare and worked brilliantly at keeping Russia out of ever entering the 21st century. Like you needed more bodies to lay at the feet of Clintons. Wait ... what?
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Aug 24, 2016 22:07
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HUGE PUBES A PLUS posted:Wait ... what? Calling Bill Clinton the history's greatest monster, unironically worse than Hitler, is the hip new thing on these forums.
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Aug 24, 2016 22:10
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chairface posted:Or they did exactly what they were supposed to and permanently crippled Russia as a world power with incompetent neoliberal bullshit economics. That's more how I figure it went. Shock Therapy was meant as straight up warfare and worked brilliantly at keeping Russia out of ever entering the 21st century. Like you needed more bodies to lay at the feet of Clintons.  You realize that Sachs has been publicly arguing the Maidan was an unjust Western coup against the legitimate Ukrainian goverment, and waxes poetic about how poor plucky little Russia just feels so insecure about its smaller neighbors cozying up to NATO, right?
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Aug 24, 2016 22:15
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chairface posted:Or they did exactly what they were supposed to and permanently crippled Russia as a world power with incompetent neoliberal bullshit economics. That's more how I figure it went. Shock Therapy was meant as straight up warfare and worked brilliantly at keeping Russia out of ever entering the 21st century. Like you needed more bodies to lay at the feet of Clintons. What permanently crippled Russia as a world power is that the territory they hold sucks for force projection, and even in the best case scenario their economy was hosed due to 50 years of resource extraction focus and relying on getting other income from operating an imperialist empire on their borders. Get over it.
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Aug 24, 2016 22:17
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Was Siberia worth it for the Russians?
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Aug 24, 2016 22:19
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steinrokkan posted:Calling Bill Clinton the history's greatest monster, unironically worse than Hitler, is the hip new thing on these forums. I blame Bernie Bros, Trump, and Putin, and it's not just happening on the forums.
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Aug 24, 2016 22:21
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Kurtofan posted:Was Siberia worth it for the Russians? 
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Aug 24, 2016 22:23
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The Amur is the nicest place in Russia.
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Aug 24, 2016 22:27
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fishmech posted:What permanently crippled Russia as a world power is that the territory they hold sucks for force projection, and even in the best case scenario their economy was hosed due to 50 years of resource extraction focus and relying on getting other income from operating an imperialist empire on their borders. And that there was a huge focus on military production right before the transition. If I remember my thesis correctly, the area around St. Petersburg had close to 75% of industrial production dedicated to the military. The incredibly short transition time was never going to be enough to prepare the economy for the change.
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Aug 24, 2016 22:52
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What is the Polish government doing now? http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35581708 quote:Nazi atrocities: Implying Polish guilt to become crime
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Aug 24, 2016 23:08
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HUGE PUBES A PLUS posted:What is the Polish government doing now? They're extremely touchy about Poland being blamed for anything bad that happened in WWII while at the same time cozying up to open antisemites and nationalists in general. Recently the minister of education went on a popular nightly interview program and when asked who carried out the massacre of Jews at Jedwabne and the post war pogrom of 42 Jews in Kielce refused to answer that it was Poles even thought that's established historical fact. It was anti-semites she said, but couldn't specify what nationality they were.
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Aug 24, 2016 23:23
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I like how they said Obama would not be prosecuted because that would be a diplomatic scandal. Not, you know, because law is not retroactive.
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Aug 24, 2016 23:25
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Tevery Best posted:I like how they said Obama would not be prosecuted because that would be a diplomatic scandal. They can't stop breaking the constitution why would they care about ex post facto legal doctrine.
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Aug 24, 2016 23:29
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Cugel the Clever posted:
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Aug 25, 2016 00:11
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quote:The government of Poland plans to introduce a law making it a crime to imply the country bears any responsibility for atrocities carried out on Polish soil by Nazi Germany. There is, perhaps, one tiny insignificant problem with this plan, namely that that "foreign media" happen to be foreign, i.e., not under Poland's legal jurisdiction. Polish death camps, polish death camps, polish death camps! Can't arrest me, neener neener!
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Aug 25, 2016 00:12
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It maybe a dumb law, but's a legit problem that especially German media like to call those "polish" death camps, when they were not, they were German nazi death camps, no matter in which country the remains of those are today
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Aug 25, 2016 00:19
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Cat Mattress posted:There is, perhaps, one tiny insignificant problem with this plan, namely that that "foreign media" happen to be foreign, i.e., not under Poland's legal jurisdiction. Just don't come to Poland after, in case you haven't noticed, we can hold a grudge.
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Aug 25, 2016 00:19
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Is German-Polish Death Camps acceptable?
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Aug 25, 2016 00:26
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"Polish Death Camps" sounds like some kind of unpleasant traditional, regional fermented meat product. Or maybe a mixed drink.
Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 00:38 on Aug 25, 2016 |
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Aug 25, 2016 00:36
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skipThings posted:It maybe a dumb law, but's a legit problem that especially German media like to call those "polish" death camps, when they were not, they were German nazi death camps, no matter in which country the remains of those are today Is it a large problem, people thinking that the Polish death camps in German-occupied Poland were actually run by Poland as opposed to just being in Poland?
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Aug 25, 2016 01:40
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I wouldn't say it is a large problem, as in that people think the Polish ran or build them themselves, but it is a factually incorrect statement that is often used to conflate different kinds of guilt. Sure there were Polish anti-semites, but the Polish or the Polish state never started camps or industrialized genocide. With the term " polish death camps" this guilt is tried to be deflected on the people who suffered under the German occupation as well.
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Aug 25, 2016 01:50
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ocrumsprug posted:Is it a large problem, people thinking that the Polish death camps in German-occupied Poland were actually run by Poland as opposed to just being in Poland? Well, quite a number of Poles participated in atrocities, even if the camps themselves were run by the SS so I guess that's a bit of a problem
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Aug 25, 2016 01:52
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I wouldn't offend the people who murdered over six million Jews in their Polish death camps if I were you.
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Aug 25, 2016 04:57
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Nenonen posted:I wouldn't offend the people who murdered over six million Jews in their Polish death camps if I were you. So, what's up with that 6 million figure? Why do you hate non-Jews that were murdered in Polish death camps?
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Aug 25, 2016 07:39
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Well, it's certainly true that the German death machine was well Polished, if you know what I mean. The Poles did it
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Aug 25, 2016 07:49
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PiS wants to turn Poland into one big Polish death camp
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Aug 25, 2016 08:10
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