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My god, that RiotMagus post just makes him come off like an uninformed, bullying retard in light of this HTC release:RiotMagus posted:Real talk, that TSM sponsorship wasn't an actual HTC ad. It was a promotion for a VR video game for TSM to play (the title of the YouTube clip is literally "TSM plays raw data"). Regardless of whether HTC organized this or not, it's a tactic advertisement for another game. How have they not gone into full PR lockdown about this poo poo by now?
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# ? Aug 25, 2016 19:44 |
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# ? May 17, 2024 06:45 |
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It's just disgusting. OGN has sponsors for every season, they've got soundproof booths, they've got features 10x better than anything Primetime League has put out, they've got better production and sets and they fill out breaks in-between games in a way that doesn't make me want to hang myself. I'm sure what's happened at Riot was they put someone ahead of E-Sports division that looks at OGN as the "competition" rather than their predecessors. Riot's a really stubborn company and most of their upper management live in their own planet unwilling to listen to others or take advice. This whole situation started because the co-founder just couldn't keep his mouth shut over a video that would have been forgotten about in two weeks otherwise. RiotMagnus posted:Real talk, that TSM sponsorship wasn't an actual HTC ad. It was a promotion for a VR video game for TSM to play (the title of the YouTube clip is literally "TSM plays raw data"). Regardless of whether HTC organized this or not, it's a tactic advertisement for another game. RealFoxy fucked around with this message at 19:47 on Aug 25, 2016 |
# ? Aug 25, 2016 19:45 |
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Hell with G2/Fnatic scandal, it would've disappeared from the public mind within a literal day. iirc, Riot was definitely on the side of getting SpoTV to cast the LCK and get rid of OGN entirely, until the backlash was so large they had to make the stupid setup they had for Summer 2016. Riot especially dislikes Korea, because they are not, and never will be, the big dogs there. They can be the biggest e-sport all they want, but KeSPA controls all esports in Korea and there is absolutely no way around it.
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# ? Aug 25, 2016 19:50 |
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Luna Was Here posted:Lolwut Dragongem posted:I can't believe young men and women would somehow think that playing a CHILDREN'S game is a worthwhile calling in life!!! They should get real jobs!! the game is poorly designed for competitive gaming. how did you not get that.
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# ? Aug 25, 2016 19:54 |
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I forgot RiotMagus was the same retard that defended forcing LCS players to only stream LoL, so I guess I shouldn't be surprised when he comes off like a sanctimonious retard, bashing a literal advertiser for his esport.Groovelord Neato posted:the game is poorly designed for competitive gaming. go shitpost in the overwatch thread about it
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# ? Aug 25, 2016 19:54 |
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OGN's mocking of SpotTV has been one of my favorite things about the last season. The day they couldn't use their own cameras to see the players so they had extra OGN crew in the booths wearing cut-out faces of all the players to compensate was great. Riot has been so petty, which is a sin but even worse than that is they've been arrogant. I wouldn't be surprised to see more sponsors, more regions, and even OGN to jump in against Riot on this. Brazil had a huge controversy recently where it was found that after sister teams were dismantled, an owner had sold the team to his mother and was attempting to start the season that way. A bunch of the large teams in Brazil protested but nothing happened, so they all boycotted the upcoming season and that's literally the only reason Riot Brazil went and punished that owner for trying to be sneaky.
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# ? Aug 25, 2016 19:55 |
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"Well it's a piggyback broadcast, which means we will start with a pause!" -PapaSmithy every SpoTV game 2016
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# ? Aug 25, 2016 19:57 |
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Sexpansion posted:Please do yourself a favor and watch some of the wild card qualifier games, they are actually very entertaining. For instance, watch Tussle's Lee Sin dominate here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9yR_Yu19BA Saw the result before I watched the game and was expecting Rampage to impress against a team I'd expect to be better. SAJ still looked considerably better, they just underestimated the Lee Sin and things got out of hand. I hope Rampage manages to take more Ws, but reserving my expectations.
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# ? Aug 25, 2016 20:00 |
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RealFoxy posted:OGN's mocking of SpotTV has been one of my favorite things about the last season. The day they couldn't use their own cameras to see the players so they had extra OGN crew in the booths wearing cut-out faces of all the players to compensate was great. Riot has been so petty, which is a sin but even worse than that is they've been arrogant. I wouldn't be surprised to see more sponsors, more regions, and even OGN to jump in against Riot on this. Riot takes the not invented here philosophy to the extreme. Someone else is doing something better? Well gently caress you, since we didn't come up with it it is clearly worse and bad for the players and we can't possibly be wrong. Sound proof booths? Clearly they cause cancer. Increasing tournament pay outs? Makes Jesus weep. Anything that makes LCS teams money? The stipend is good enough and they all make millions anyways!
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# ? Aug 25, 2016 20:01 |
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RealFoxy posted:The day they couldn't use their own cameras to see the players so they had extra OGN crew in the booths wearing cut-out faces of all the players to compensate was great you cant just go and say something like this and then NOT link it, seriously hosed up imo
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# ? Aug 25, 2016 20:31 |
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Kashuno posted:How do the orgs get hurt if they aren't making money (at the top of LCS) or losing money (at the bottom of LCS)? TSM "arent making money" off their LCS team in the same way Riot "arent making money" off of LCS, ie they would both stop (or rework their business plan) if it didnt increase their other revenue streams. Bad orgs are losing money because they came in with lovely business plans and fail like any other startup in any other business. Taciturn Tactician posted:If [most people buying skins not caring about LCS] was true, why would riot continue to dump money into the competitive scene? They're not doing it because they just love watching, having that competitive scene makes them money. And why would people buy org icons? I don't think people are shelling out RP for the TSM icon because they don't care about TSM. If the organisations aren't all lying, they won't hurt themselves at all by leaving the LCS, because they either outright lose money running an LCS team or break even. Meanwhile Riot is going to lose a lot of viewers and attendees for LCS. Riot run the LCS to make more money on skin sales. If there was no LCS Riot would be making less money on skins, but still shitloads. How is this nuance even remotely difficult to grasp. It's exactly like Brexit in the sense that one party and their supporters think they have leverage because the other party needs them, when in reality you have very little leverage because they need you less than you need them. Yeah Riot "needs" orgs (orgs' actions can help or hurt Riot's bottom line.) just not to any extent close to what being in the LCS can do for them. How Rude posted:this is not petty internet drama when we are talking about full time players being unable to support themselves financially and five dudes sleeping in one room because the stipend riot provides covers peanuts, this is a basic human rights issue The discussion has mainly been about *orgs* losing money in part because VC is driving up player salaries. (If you cant support yourself on 25k/yr with free housing then I just dont know what to tell them. Yeah sleeping 5 to a room is super lovely, so negotiate a better contract or go find another job or go to college. There are literally hundreds of thousands of people whod want to be in their shoes, and if the current crop of players drop out for whatever reason there will always be the next best challenger/master player to replace them.) The first step towards being able to have a constructive discussion about any of this though is to recognize that's what's good for Riot/LCS/The LoL esports scene (which doesnt need to include the LCS in the long term)/Orgs/Players and Fans (and short vs long term for each party) cant ever all align,. But hey lets grab onto a coupld of oversimplified talkingpoints about how Riot/Orgs/X is doing something "wrong" because it doesnt align with their own interest. Throw in a couple of s for good measure.
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# ? Aug 25, 2016 20:36 |
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iSurrender posted:TSM "arent making money" off their LCS team in the same way Riot "arent making money" off of LCS, ie they would both stop (or rework their business plan) if it didnt increase their other revenue streams. Bad orgs are losing money because they came in with lovely business plans and fail like any other startup in any other business. didnt I already tell you to see a doctor about how much your rear end has been talking? its approaching near-fatal levels of verbal diarrhea. panda clue fucked around with this message at 20:40 on Aug 25, 2016 |
# ? Aug 25, 2016 20:38 |
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iSurrender posted:It's exactly like Brexit lol you are just gonna keep doubling down aren't you
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# ? Aug 25, 2016 20:39 |
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If you only read 4 words per post then you are completely right. That also makes your posts make more sense.
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# ? Aug 25, 2016 20:46 |
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iSurrender posted:If you only read 4 words per post then you are completely right. That also makes your posts make more sense. I tried reading more but then I ran into this and started laughing uncontrollably: iSurrender posted:If you cant support yourself on 25k/yr with free housing then I just dont know what to tell them please tell me more about how easy it is to live in Los Angeles on Twenty-five Thousand Dollars A Year, pre-taxes.
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# ? Aug 25, 2016 20:47 |
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iSurrender posted:TSM "arent making money" off their LCS team in the same way Riot "arent making money" off of LCS, ie they would both stop (or rework their business plan) if it didnt increase their other revenue streams. Bad orgs are losing money because they came in with lovely business plans and fail like any other startup in any other business.
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# ? Aug 25, 2016 20:51 |
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Take away the cost of housing and commuting and you can sustain yourself on that literally anywhere in the entire world.
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# ? Aug 25, 2016 20:52 |
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iSurrender posted:so negotiate a better contract why do you think regi started all of this mess? He feels like his hands are mostly tied because Riot has very strict guidelines on sponsors, and in return Riot pitches in for player salaries. If the most successful org can't afford to pay its players more, and is kneecapped from acquiring more means of getting money, it is reasonable to petition the other party to uphold their end of the deal to a more accountable end. also your post reads like a bootstraps post who doesn't understand the world from anyone's view but his own.
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# ? Aug 25, 2016 20:55 |
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iSurrender posted:It's exactly like Brexit in the sense that one party and their supporters think they have leverage because the other party needs them, when in reality you have very little leverage because they need you less than you need them. Yeah Riot "needs" orgs (orgs' actions can help or hurt Riot's bottom line.) just not to any extent close to what being in the LCS can do for them. I still don't see this as being a parallel to Brexit, it seems more like a Pixar vs Disney situation where Pixar wanted more control over their poo poo and Disney told them "lol no" and then Pixar hosed off and did A Bug's Life and (i think) Monster's Inc and Disney was like "haha jk can you come back", except in this case instead of character control its revenue control/franchising, the difference between the two is iif all of the LCS orgs go the 'hosed off' route then there might not be a Disney/Riot/LCS to come back to if the Solomid Invitational ends up being more popular than whatever the heck shitshow Riot throws together
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# ? Aug 25, 2016 20:56 |
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iSurrender posted:(If you cant support yourself on 25k/yr with free housing then I just dont know what to tell them. Yeah sleeping 5 to a room is super lovely, so negotiate a better contract or go find another job or go to college. There are literally hundreds of thousands of people whod want to be in their shoes, and if the current crop of players drop out for whatever reason there will always be the next best challenger/master player to replace them.) The bold takes the cake for the dumbest thing said in this thread; even though you already said "It's exactly like Brexit" in the same drat post. No; the situation is not "exactly like Brexit" because Brexit wasn't about leverage. As for the bold statement; you do realize why we have labor regulations right? It is because psychopaths like you can't make someone's life a living hell and then claim that they could always go somewhere else or do something else. It doesn't matter how many applicants there are for a position; using that to justify mistreatment or lack of pay is not the reasoning of what society considers a decent person. It is the reasoning of a petty authoritarian that accomplishes nothing in life that is worth mentioning and the world is better off without.
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# ? Aug 25, 2016 20:59 |
iSurrender posted:Take away the cost of housing and commuting and you can sustain yourself on that literally anywhere in the entire world. You're literally a riot employee and if you post about this issue again you will get a 1 week probation. Only warning.
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# ? Aug 25, 2016 21:00 |
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iSurrender posted:Take away the cost of housing and commuting and you can sustain yourself on that literally anywhere in the entire world. you can also make more than $25k/year working part time at a gas station in LA rather than dedicating your literal every waking moment to it, so there's that. Either way, literally none of the orgs were even complaining about their compensation at all until you, Mr. Merrill, decided to publicly shame them for not paying their players a 'fair' portion. Shame on you.
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# ? Aug 25, 2016 21:00 |
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imagine how loving exhausting it must be to think you're always the smartest person in the room and everywhere you go everyone else is bringing you down. lol
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# ? Aug 25, 2016 21:04 |
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Shadow225 posted:why do you think regi started all of this mess? He feels like his hands are mostly tied because Riot has very strict guidelines on sponsors, and in return Riot pitches in for player salaries. If the most successful org can't afford to pay its players more, and is kneecapped from acquiring more means of getting money, it is reasonable to petition the other party to uphold their end of the deal to a more accountable end. It would be nice if we could stop muddling two almost opposite things together. Regis salary woes are that VC has made it so other teams can now offer salaries that can compete with TSM, so Regi wants more ways to make money. New, rich investors is the only reason Regi has to pay players more, god knows his players are already making bank and dont *need* more money. Also only a single loving thing Ive said is anything even remotely close to "bootstraps". Im a leftist even by leftist european standards. On the player side pro sports is a meritocracy though, youre never gonna get paid more than youre worth (oh wait, yay for VC bubbles, this helps players short term while harming established top orgs) and if they dont like it they can go live in the normal world of poo poo jobs and unemployment like the rest of us.
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# ? Aug 25, 2016 21:09 |
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Even Marc Merrill acknowledges TSM is the top dog in terms of player salaries what are you doing
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# ? Aug 25, 2016 21:12 |
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Lovechop posted:imagine how loving exhausting it must be to think you're always the smartest person in the room and everywhere you go everyone else is bringing you down. lol It's more like you walk around in a world of sensible people 95% of the time, and then you forget lolgoons are literally twitch chat and mistakenly address them as if they werent. My bad.
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# ? Aug 25, 2016 21:15 |
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iSurrender posted:It's more like you walk around in a world of sensible people 95% of the time, and then you forget lolgoons are literally twitch chat and mistakenly address them as if they werent. My bad. i am still reading all your posts in kirk van houten's voice
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# ? Aug 25, 2016 21:18 |
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iSurrender posted:It's more like you walk around in a world of sensible people 95% of the time, and then you forget lolgoons are literally twitch chat and mistakenly address them as if they werent. My bad. heh, goons, amirite? you're rocking poe's law really hard right now. keep it up, I love it.
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# ? Aug 25, 2016 21:19 |
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Wildcard's on again! The Japanese have let fear into their hearts and banned out Likkrit's Brand. http://watch.na.lolesports.com/en_US/international-wildcard/en Edit: Likkrit is matching his Taric's luscious locks Wol fucked around with this message at 21:24 on Aug 25, 2016 |
# ? Aug 25, 2016 21:22 |
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Maguoob posted:The bold takes the cake for the dumbest thing said in this thread; even though you already said "It's exactly like Brexit" in the same drat post. No; the situation is not "exactly like Brexit" because Brexit wasn't about leverage. As for the bold statement; you do realize why we have labor regulations right? It is because psychopaths like you can't make someone's life a living hell and then claim that they could always go somewhere else or do something else. It doesn't matter how many applicants there are for a position; using that to justify mistreatment or lack of pay is not the reasoning of what society considers a decent person. It is the reasoning of a petty authoritarian that accomplishes nothing in life that is worth mentioning and the world is better off without. How hard is the phrase "it's exactly like Brexit in the sense that"? Again, I guess I should just stop expecting people to read before they reply. No player in the LCS with an org that has a team house and pays the Riot minimum has a problem with lack of pay (and pretty much all pay more, which is why, again, the orgs are having money trouble, not the players). (Yeah there were orgs that literally didnt pay players and those should be sued to hell and back)
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# ? Aug 25, 2016 21:26 |
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LCS teams get a 30k stipend each split, and they're required to pay for player housing, transportation to/from events, and food. I'm going to focus on TSM right now since they're the biggest organization. Biofrost's contract is probably clearing 30k a split, which would mean Riot's entire stipend per split is probably not even enough to cover Biofrost living there. TSM are paying star players Doublelift and Bjerg over 100k a split to play on TSM. Since TSM aren't allowed to prominently advertise their sponsors, either in studio or on their YouTube channel, exactly where do you believe they're getting the money from? It's certainly not playing League of Legends, even if they're the most popular team and they sell a lot of merchandise and icons in-game. TSM isn't having money issues by any means, they're the most successful team in the LCS and possibly the world. Currently any team that's not backed by a VC or a large organization is losing a lot of money being in the LCS. Bottom-tier teams have issues finding sponsors at all, because if they're relegated they're basically losing all visibility; the viewership for the challenger series is incredibly small compared to the LCS. In order to pay for top-tier players, especially imports from EU or Korea, a team needs to be competitive with the top paying organizations, which sometimes means for a well-known player they're going to be shelling out 60k a split, which is DOUBLE the stipend that Riot provides. A bottom 4 LCS team paying 60k for a single player, and still struggling to remain in the LCS is going to be unappealing to sponsors and even well-known players will struggle to sell the brand and merchandise. GBM and Ohq were two popular players from Korea, Santorin was a former TSM jungler, and Kiwikid was one of the most popular support players in LCS. They all struggled and got relegated from the LCS, lost everything, and had to cut losses by releasing all their players because the cost of operating at such a massive lost in the challenger scene is too much for a smaller/newer organization. Regi's idea of the LCS solves a lot of issues teams have been struggling with.
I give up on this post isurrender is just a total idiot and everything he's said has been brought up by Regi or HTC or Monte or NME and it's not my fault he can't read
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# ? Aug 25, 2016 21:26 |
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panda clue posted:heh, goons, amirite? Not complaining about goons, keep up your sweet reading skills buddy. Luna Was Here posted:it seems more like a Pixar vs Disney situation where Pixar wanted more control over their poo poo and Disney told them "lol no" and then Pixar hosed off and did A Bug's Life and (i think) Monster's Inc and Disney was like "haha jk can you come back", except in this case instead of character control its revenue control/franchising, the difference between the two is iif all of the LCS orgs go the 'hosed off' route then there might not be a Disney/Riot/LCS to come back to if the Solomid Invitational ends up being more popular than whatever the heck shitshow Riot throws together Yeah, it's a bit like that if we imagine that in this situation Disney owns the concept of animation so Pixar have to go do live action movies instead.
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# ? Aug 25, 2016 21:27 |
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RealFoxy posted:LCS teams get a 30k stipend each split, and they're required to pay for player housing, transportation to/from events, and food. fyi the stipend is 130k not 30k
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# ? Aug 25, 2016 21:28 |
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iSurrender posted:It would be nice if we could stop muddling two almost opposite things together. Regis salary woes are that VC has made it so other teams can now offer salaries that can compete with TSM, so Regi wants more ways to make money. New, rich investors is the only reason Regi has to pay players more, god knows his players are already making bank and dont *need* more money. Kashuno posted:fyi the stipend is 130k not 30k
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# ? Aug 25, 2016 21:28 |
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iSurrender posted:Not complaining about goons, keep up your sweet reading skills buddy. iSurrender posted:It's more like you walk around in a world of sensible people 95% of the time, and then you forget lolgoons are literally twitch chat and mistakenly address them as if they werent. My bad.
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# ? Aug 25, 2016 21:30 |
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iSurrender posted:How hard is the phrase "it's exactly like Brexit in the sense that"? Again, I guess I should just stop expecting people to read before they reply.
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# ? Aug 25, 2016 21:31 |
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Yeah, you literally cant tell 2 different words apart, good luck having a discussion. Also, I wonder if I keep a post short enough people will realize I havent said anything in defense of Riot. Before VC Regi paid well because he's making a ton of money, wants to be a good guy, and should ideally make sure Bjergsen makes more from being on the team than just full-time streaming. Now his position as the guy who can outbid any team in the west is threatened so he's trying to find new ways to make more money, because he's pretty drat good at running a business. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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# ? Aug 25, 2016 21:32 |
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iSurrender posted:Yeah, you literally cant tell 2 different words apart, good luck having a discussion. I was having fun pretending you weren't just a dumb troll, but now you're making it too obvious. Reel it back a bit and stop breaking my immersion, please.
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# ? Aug 25, 2016 21:36 |
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iSurrender posted:Before VC Regi paid well because he's making a ton of money, wants to be a good guy, and should ideally make sure Bjergsen makes more from being on the team than just full-time streaming. Now his position as the guy who can outbid any team in the west is threatened so he's trying to find new ways to make more money, because he's pretty drat good at running a business.
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# ? Aug 25, 2016 21:37 |
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# ? May 17, 2024 06:45 |
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RealFoxy posted:I'm convinced that you've not listened to or read anything a non-rioter has said because Regi isn't even fighting this battle for TSM. Go read the CEO of NME's take on all this from a bottom-tier LCS team that didn't have a millionaire backing them. I posted my position on that already. You come in with a poo poo business plan you fail like 80-90% of startups in any other business. TSM are successful because Regi built a brand, from the day they got their first teamhouse their economy would be in the shitter if he hadnt worked hard on the non-team side of the business. Now some people think any org that buys a slot deserves success and money just for being in the LCS. gently caress'em, learn how to run a business, or go do something else. iSurrender fucked around with this message at 21:44 on Aug 25, 2016 |
# ? Aug 25, 2016 21:40 |