Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Locked thread
e.pilot
Nov 20, 2011

sometimes maybe good
sometimes maybe shit

Captain Apollo posted:

Yeah VATSIM helps.


Also, brevity is nice. But it's also ONE THOUSAND PERCENT OKAY to get your message across in regular 'american.'

'Hey Tower, I'd really like to do a go-around on this one and make the next one a full stop.'

You know what, if its under 30 seconds long and you're being safe and not cutting other people off and hurting things, who cares?



I HIGHLY recommend you listen to LiveATC.net for your airport (or the closest airport you can find) to get a feel for how ATC operates in your particular area.

100% this. As much as pilots and controllers give student pilots a hard time about radio stuff, we all sounded like that when we started. Find a time when the airport isn't busy, then fly there with your instructor, it'll be a lot slower paced and you can take your time on the radio without feeling like you're in the way or being a nuisance. Night time and sunday mornings are great for this. Listen to liveatc.net and pick out the read backs the controllers get after they give an instruction.

e: also get a tour of your local TRACON or tower, I've found meeting controllers in person and seeing behind the curtains of ATC really helps my students for some reason

e.pilot fucked around with this message at 18:59 on Aug 22, 2016

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Tide
Mar 27, 2010

by FactsAreUseless

e.pilot posted:


e: also get a tour of your local TRACON or tower, I've found meeting controllers in person and seeing behind the curtains of ATC really helps my students for some reason

You have NO idea how much this helps.

I didn't struggle with radios in terms of being nervous or anything. If anything, I was a bit too confident with it and spoke WAY too fast - because that's what cool, experienced pilots did. I knew what I was supposed to say and how to say with lots of chair practice, atclive listening sessions and rehearsel BEFORE saying it, but that led to an unexpected problem:

The controller heard this cool, fast talking pilot in their headset and went lightspeed with their instructions, which led me to lots of :aaaaa: moments of not knowing what they said. Especially during flight when I was low hours and tunnel visioned on simply flying the plane.

I have been told I have a fairly distinctive voice in terms of pitch (pretty deep - lots of years of Marlboro Reds and bourbon), accent, and cadence. The ATC guys recognized my voice the minute I met them and they were fairly surprised how few hours I had. But being to able to meet with the local ATC and listen in and ask questions, and this helped more than anything.

EvilJoven
Mar 18, 2005

NOBODY,IN THE HISTORY OF EVER, HAS ASKED OR CARED WHAT CANADA THINKS. YOU ARE NOT A COUNTRY. YOUR MONEY HAS THE QUEEN OF ENGLAND ON IT. IF YOU DIG AROUND IN YOUR BACKYARD, NATIVE SKELETONS WOULD EXPLODE OUT OF YOUR LAWN LIKE THE END OF POLTERGEIST. CANADA IS SO POLITE, EH?
Fun Shoe
Finished my cross country requirement with a short flight from CYAV to CYGM and back. Got to climb in a CL-415 and meet my instructors daughter who was sitting at the air cadet glider center twiddling her thumbs because of crosswinds.

Captain Apollo
Jun 24, 2003

King of the Pilots, CFI
How were your radio comms?

EvilJoven
Mar 18, 2005

NOBODY,IN THE HISTORY OF EVER, HAS ASKED OR CARED WHAT CANADA THINKS. YOU ARE NOT A COUNTRY. YOUR MONEY HAS THE QUEEN OF ENGLAND ON IT. IF YOU DIG AROUND IN YOUR BACKYARD, NATIVE SKELETONS WOULD EXPLODE OUT OF YOUR LAWN LIKE THE END OF POLTERGEIST. CANADA IS SO POLITE, EH?
Fun Shoe

Captain Apollo posted:

How were your radio comms?

Brief and concise. :colbert: Actually it was a bit disappointing I was hoping to do more work at a field with an on site FSS but they were shut down for lunch so all I had to do were standard uncontrolled radio calls.

Also, I got to poke around a CL-415 (xpost from the AI thread)









And a C-46 put out to pasture.



My flight school really needs one of these.



It was 30c and my intention to put 2-3 hours of practice in after my XC got cut to 1.4 because it was just too loving hot. After some time in the practice area and then back to the circuit I only had enough juice left in me for two normals a short field stop and go and a soft field before I was so hot and miserable I just wanted down.

EvilJoven fucked around with this message at 01:19 on Aug 23, 2016

CBJSprague24
Dec 5, 2010

another game at nationwide arena. everybody keeps asking me if they can fuck the cannon. buddy, they don't even let me fuck it

VOR LOC posted:

yeah don't do this. You want to be a good pilot? Talking on the radio is part of that. Look at the AIM and ICAO radiotelephony procedures for proper radio phraseology. Practice to yourself and then think think think about what is going to come out of your mouth when you key the mic. What messes people up about talking on the radio is that they don't know what they want to communicate to the receiver so they spit a bunch of garbage and then feel foolish after they're done. But please, for the love of god, don't use a bunch of slang or regionalisms when you talk. It messes up ATC and other aircraft when you do this and it takes longer for you to communicate effectively.


Essentially talking "regular american" will make you sound like this guy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89AIQbOAfuQ

I love ATC Memes and will imagine controllers making GBS threads all over the next poor radio communicator I hear when I fly. :allears:

"Who doesn't have two radios? This is 1940? What the gently caress? Everybody has two radios. It's 2016. That's the dumbest poo poo I've heard in my life."

:roflolmao:

e.pilot posted:

e: also get a tour of your local TRACON or tower, I've found meeting controllers in person and seeing behind the curtains of ATC really helps my students for some reason

I actually met one of Dayton's controllers at a McDonald's near DAY of all places. He saw my DCA uniform and introduced himself, asking which planes I flew (152s at the time, just about to end Private). He was even aware of the regs of the 152s and 172s we had (though he had them backwards), so he knew that 7339W, 68919 (152s), 54094, and 64791 (172s), along with 62FC (Arrow) and 39670 (Seminole) were training airplanes.

EvilJoven
Mar 18, 2005

NOBODY,IN THE HISTORY OF EVER, HAS ASKED OR CARED WHAT CANADA THINKS. YOU ARE NOT A COUNTRY. YOUR MONEY HAS THE QUEEN OF ENGLAND ON IT. IF YOU DIG AROUND IN YOUR BACKYARD, NATIVE SKELETONS WOULD EXPLODE OUT OF YOUR LAWN LIKE THE END OF POLTERGEIST. CANADA IS SO POLITE, EH?
Fun Shoe

CBJSprague24 posted:

"Who doesn't have two radios? This is 1940? What the gently caress? Everybody has two radios. It's 2016. That's the dumbest poo poo I've heard in my life."

I don't have two radios :smith:

vessbot
Jun 17, 2005
I don't like you because you're dangerous

CBJSprague24 posted:



"Who doesn't have two radios? This is 1940? What the gently caress? Everybody has two radios. It's 2016. That's the dumbest poo poo I've heard in my life."

:roflolmao:


I used to do a lot of instructing in planes from the 1940s that originally had zero radios, out of a busy Class D, and had to use handhelds and other hodgepodges. On my worst day, I had 4 radio failures in the same day and on more than one occasion I got in using my cell phone.

edit: Holy poo poo the number of accounts on various websites you have to activate as a new airline pilot will make your head spin.

vessbot fucked around with this message at 05:12 on Aug 23, 2016

hjp766
Sep 6, 2013
Dinosaur Gum

Richlove posted:

I had to put my PPL lessons on hold due to work this year but I am about to jump back into getting some flight hours in soon this coming month. Like many students, I am nervous communicating with ATC. Would you recommend utilizing VATSIM or Pilotedge as a learning tool in the interim?

Grats to everyone on their new certs. I love this thread! :cheers:

You should hear Air China or any of them from that neck of the woods.

hjp766
Sep 6, 2013
Dinosaur Gum

The Ferret King posted:

As an approach controller, I don't want the callsign separate from the rest of the information. If I just type a callsign in and generate a code, it's a local-only code and now I have to assign a different one if it turns out that they want flight following outside of our airspace.

Also, once I've entered in the information for a flight plan leaving our airspace, I can't edit it from my radar screen. It requires calling the Flight Data position on the landline, or getting up and walking to their station if you're close enough and your cord can reach.

UK System on first call is Reg, Station Addressed, Service requested and shut up and wait.

So last time out in a small Plane was

Linton Radar, GBNOE, Basic Service.

He then knows what squawk to give as he knows what poo poo I'm asking for.

As an alternative, as our South East departure from Newcastle is through uncontrolled, the inital call would become, London Mil, Kestrel 6028, Deconfliction Service.

The UK is weird having a Basic, Traffic, and Deconfliction service. You can only request Deconfliction when IR rated in reality as it is effectively radar controlled and the controller keeps your separation.

hjp766 fucked around with this message at 22:43 on Aug 23, 2016

xaarman
Mar 12, 2003

IRONKNUCKLE PERMABANNED! READ HERE
Don't be nervous about talking to ATC.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDdG42l3uOQ

e.pilot
Nov 20, 2011

sometimes maybe good
sometimes maybe shit
This is my favorite ATC memes video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxGQ9qW1228

PT6A
Jan 5, 2006

Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane
So, I watched that and then listened to the "when center vectors a VFR aircraft"...

Do things work differently in the States? In Canada, I'm pretty sure controllers can vector a VFR aircraft if the VFR aircraft requests, or if it's necessary when the VFR aircraft is operating in controlled airspace. Is this not the case in the US?

The Ferret King
Nov 23, 2003

cluck cluck
The short answer is: ATC can vector VFR aircraft.

The long answer gets hotly debated and pointlessly convoluted. The issue is that the manual we follow is written in a very specific way, and it outlines when VFR aircraft may be radar vectored and when vectoring can only done with pilot concurrence or request. Also, in Class E airspace (the majority of U.S. airspace containing VFR operations) there is no prescribed radar separation minimum between VFR and IFR aircraft. Traffic advisories("can you see this traffic?") and safety alerts("advise you maneuver to avoid traffic NOW") are the only required services between VFR-VFR or VFR-IFR conflicts in Class E airspace.

The culture is changing, however, and the FAA has released recurrent training material to us that makes it clear that they do not want controllers allowing situations to develop to such a degree that a Safety Alert or TCAS advisory is the only thing that saves an imminent situation. The book needs to be rewritten a bit to fully support their position, but I certainly agree with it.

The ATC Memes video paid homage to a real situation that we controllers have been briefed on recently, where a center controller allowed a King Air 200 to operate in the path of airliner traffic at 17,500. A climbing Embraer 145 was issued 17,000 to deconflict the traffic, but the controller was relieved for a break and the new controller re-issued a climb through the King Air's altitude (knowing that traffic advisories had been issued and that there was no prescribed radar separation minima to follow in this class of airspace). TCAS on both aircraft issued resolution advisories and the aircraft maneuvered on their own to increase separation. The briefing item on this incident made it clear that the FAA much preferred the positive separation afforded by the first controller's altitude restriction, even though such an instruction wasn't technically required.

The Slaughter
Jan 28, 2002

cat scratch fever
Ferretking, do you know anything about the dark art that appears to be TMU?
Approaching Seattle, anytime on a clear day they are landing north you get extensive metering turns during peak arrival windows. This is to avoid holding.
Like such:
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/ASA337/history/20160823/0233Z/KSFO/KSEA
They often mention a "BTG vor time" and needing to lose a particular number of minutes on us.
When or at what point does that time get established? If I depart SFO for SEA and fly faster until I get the metering turns and slowed back to .72, do I still arrive faster than I would otherwise or is there a BTG time when I depart already computed and if I go .76 I avoid getting turned as much because I'm getting the same BTG time?

The Ferret King
Nov 23, 2003

cluck cluck
I know it's a computer that does what you're talking about. But it's a Center thing.

One of the other guys might know more about it. I took a computer based learning module on it but I don't remember a lot since it doesn't affect me at all.

MrYenko
Jun 18, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

My area doesn't do metering; We don't work that many arrivals. Ask Fknlo?

The Ferret King
Nov 23, 2003

cluck cluck
It's called Time Based Metering right?

EvilJoven
Mar 18, 2005

NOBODY,IN THE HISTORY OF EVER, HAS ASKED OR CARED WHAT CANADA THINKS. YOU ARE NOT A COUNTRY. YOUR MONEY HAS THE QUEEN OF ENGLAND ON IT. IF YOU DIG AROUND IN YOUR BACKYARD, NATIVE SKELETONS WOULD EXPLODE OUT OF YOUR LAWN LIKE THE END OF POLTERGEIST. CANADA IS SO POLITE, EH?
Fun Shoe
Does anyone know where I can find info on maximum pilot weight for the T-6 Texan II and the CT-114 Tutor? There's a very slight chance I might be able to go up in one or the other but I need to cut weight.

MrYenko
Jun 18, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

EvilJoven posted:

Does anyone know where I can find info on maximum pilot weight for the T-6 Texan II and the CT-114 Tutor? There's a very slight chance I might be able to go up in one or the other but I need to cut weight.

http://www.martin-baker.com/products/ejection-seats/mk16/jpats-us16la

133-271lbs

Where are you getting ejection-seat rated?

EvilJoven
Mar 18, 2005

NOBODY,IN THE HISTORY OF EVER, HAS ASKED OR CARED WHAT CANADA THINKS. YOU ARE NOT A COUNTRY. YOUR MONEY HAS THE QUEEN OF ENGLAND ON IT. IF YOU DIG AROUND IN YOUR BACKYARD, NATIVE SKELETONS WOULD EXPLODE OUT OF YOUR LAWN LIKE THE END OF POLTERGEIST. CANADA IS SO POLITE, EH?
Fun Shoe
This is a 'possibly, if the stars align in the next year or three, depending on circumstances' sorta thing. It'll probably not happen but I've been told there's a very slight chance but there's a literal 0% chance if I'm too fat to punch out.

EDIT: I can't believe it's 271lbs. Don't need to cut weight for that at all. poo poo, in full kit I'm already under max weight for the CF-18 (not that it matters). I could have sworn I heard somewhere that maximum pilot weight for a CF-18 was 206 lbs.

EvilJoven fucked around with this message at 14:57 on Aug 25, 2016

overdesigned
Apr 10, 2003

We are compassion...
Lipstick Apathy
271lbs probably includes all gear, etc etc. There's also "optimum" and "allowable" ranges and they're defined by Nude Body Weight. For the T-45, which uses the NACES seat, not the Mk16, the range is 136-213lbs.

Outside the "optimal" range there's all kinds of caveats to the acceptable ejection regimes for sink rate/bank angle/airspeed. 213-245lbs says you might get poor body position on the way out. Above 245lbs they start talking about "insufficient altitude to clear tail structure" and "insufficient altitude for zero/zero or low altitude ejections."

INTJ Mastermind
Dec 30, 2004

It's a radial!

overdesigned posted:

Above 245lbs they start talking about "insufficient altitude to clear tail structure" and "insufficient altitude for zero/zero or low altitude ejections."

Sounds like perfect fodder for aviation nerd "Yo Momma so fat..." Jokes.

hjp766
Sep 6, 2013
Dinosaur Gum

The Slaughter posted:

Ferretking, do you know anything about the dark art that appears to be TMU?
Approaching Seattle, anytime on a clear day they are landing north you get extensive metering turns during peak arrival windows. This is to avoid holding.
Like such:
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/ASA337/history/20160823/0233Z/KSFO/KSEA
They often mention a "BTG vor time" and needing to lose a particular number of minutes on us.
When or at what point does that time get established? If I depart SFO for SEA and fly faster until I get the metering turns and slowed back to .72, do I still arrive faster than I would otherwise or is there a BTG time when I depart already computed and if I go .76 I avoid getting turned as much because I'm getting the same BTG time?

If it is similar to the UK arrivals system the first to the UK Boundary/Show up on radar will be the first to land. This leads to the comic situation that everyone floors it to this point only to get told "At London request .73, 250 on conversion". 15 minutes delay at...

MrYenko
Jun 18, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

Miami Approach is ATC zero due to power outage. All flights departing and arriving KMIA and KFLL are ground stopped UFA.

So glad I'm off today.

CBJSprague24
Dec 5, 2010

another game at nationwide arena. everybody keeps asking me if they can fuck the cannon. buddy, they don't even let me fuck it

The more I see of trailers for "Sully", the more it sinks in to me that the real Sully really is a narcissistic prick. He couldn't have said "Hey, why don't we call it 'Cactus 1549' or 'Miracle On The Hudson" or something else, because there was another pilot and also three F/As in the back that day?"? I get that the movie is basically his book (which I found out today), but :fuckoff:.

Don't get me wrong, the Miracle was unfuckingbelievable and he/they deserve all the credit in the world for pulling that off, but Expert Analyst and Political Activist Sully's 15 minutes ran out before they put a few coins in the meter.

hobbesmaster
Jan 28, 2008

CBJSprague24 posted:

The more I see of trailers for "Sully", the more it sinks in to me that the real Sully really is a narcissistic prick. He couldn't have said "Hey, why don't we call it 'Cactus 1549' or 'Miracle On The Hudson" or something else, because there was another pilot and also three F/As in the back that day?"? I get that the movie is basically his book (which I found out today), but :fuckoff:.

Don't get me wrong, the Miracle was unfuckingbelievable and he/they deserve all the credit in the world for pulling that off, but Expert Analyst and Political Activist Sully's 15 minutes ran out before they put a few coins in the meter.

[ur=http://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/AccidentReports/Reports/AAR1003.pdf]Everyone read the NTSB report if you haven't[/url], every member of that flight crew was perfect and equally responsible for saving every life onboard.

Duke Chin
Jan 11, 2002

Roger That:
MILK CRATES INBOUND

:siren::siren::siren::siren:
- FUCK THE HABS -

INTJ Mastermind posted:

Sounds like perfect fodder for aviation nerd "Yo Momma so fat..." Jokes.

"Yo your ejection weight is soooo high that..."
or
"Yo your ejection minimums are soooo low that..."

Arcella
Dec 16, 2013

Shiny and Chrome

hobbesmaster posted:

Everyone read the NTSB report if you haven't, every member of that flight crew was perfect and equally responsible for saving every life onboard.

:pilot:

xaarman
Mar 12, 2003

IRONKNUCKLE PERMABANNED! READ HERE

CBJSprague24 posted:

The more I see of trailers for "Sully", the more it sinks in to me that the real Sully really is a narcissistic prick. He couldn't have said "Hey, why don't we call it 'Cactus 1549' or 'Miracle On The Hudson" or something else, because there was another pilot and also three F/As in the back that day?"? I get that the movie is basically his book (which I found out today), but :fuckoff:.

Don't get me wrong, the Miracle was unfuckingbelievable and he/they deserve all the credit in the world for pulling that off, but Expert Analyst and Political Activist Sully's 15 minutes ran out before they put a few coins in the meter.

Wait, do you think he actually had any say in the name of the movie?

Those rights were signed away a long time ago. The execs chose it because Sully is a household name, Cactus 1549 would make people think it's a Westerner movie.

CBJamo
Jul 15, 2012

xaarman posted:

Cactus 1549 would make people think it's a Westerner movie.

I wanna watch a movie that transports a cowboy to 1549 England. His free spirit and animosity against any king leads him to form another, this time successful, rebellion against the crown.

Jealous Cow
Apr 4, 2002

by Fluffdaddy

CBJamo posted:

I wanna watch a movie that transports a cowboy to 1549 England. His free spirit and animosity against any king leads him to form another, this time successful, rebellion against the crown.

:lol::lol:

PT6A
Jan 5, 2006

Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

CBJamo posted:

I wanna watch a movie that transports a cowboy to 1549 England. His free spirit and animosity against any king leads him to form another, this time successful, rebellion against the crown.

I'd watch the gently caress out of this, just sayin'

CBJSprague24
Dec 5, 2010

another game at nationwide arena. everybody keeps asking me if they can fuck the cannon. buddy, they don't even let me fuck it

CBJamo posted:

I wanna watch a movie that transports a cowboy to 1549 England. His free spirit and animosity against any king leads him to form another, this time successful, rebellion against the crown.

I'd go see this and I never go to the movies.

Tide
Mar 27, 2010

by FactsAreUseless

xaarman posted:

Wait, do you think he actually had any say in the name of the movie?

Those rights were signed away a long time ago. The execs chose it because Sully is a household name, Cactus 1549 would make people think it's a Westerner movie.

Yeah. And Miracle On The Hudson sounds like a romcom Christmas movie.

Captain Apollo
Jun 24, 2003

King of the Pilots, CFI

You know that grand dad that re-posts information from 3 years ago?

That's me.

Captain Apollo fucked around with this message at 17:53 on Aug 26, 2016

overdesigned
Apr 10, 2003

We are compassion...
Lipstick Apathy
EVERY MAN FOR THEMSELVES, BOYS

fordan
Mar 9, 2009

Clue: Zero
Apparently Plane & Pilot was napping when the FAA published the regs to the Federal Register back in June.

EvilJoven
Mar 18, 2005

NOBODY,IN THE HISTORY OF EVER, HAS ASKED OR CARED WHAT CANADA THINKS. YOU ARE NOT A COUNTRY. YOUR MONEY HAS THE QUEEN OF ENGLAND ON IT. IF YOU DIG AROUND IN YOUR BACKYARD, NATIVE SKELETONS WOULD EXPLODE OUT OF YOUR LAWN LIKE THE END OF POLTERGEIST. CANADA IS SO POLITE, EH?
Fun Shoe
You know the old movie pilot trope where the guy taps on the fuel gauge and realizes it was stuck? I had to do that today.

Fortunately it was during a flight where I knew exactly how much was in the tanks and was switching every 30 mins like I'm supposed to do it wasnt the full trope where the guy does it after the engine starts sputtering.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Nerobro
Nov 4, 2005

Rider now with 100% more titanium!

EvilJoven posted:

You know the old movie pilot trope where the guy taps on the fuel gauge and realizes it was stuck? I had to do that today.

Fortunately it was during a flight where I knew exactly how much was in the tanks and was switching every 30 mins like I'm supposed to do it wasnt the full trope where the guy does it after the engine starts sputtering.

It's so much of a "trope" that many guages have vibration motors built in to take care of that issue. Shaking the guage makes stiction less of a thing.

  • Locked thread