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Stultus Maximus posted:Because of basically what I said. Underprivileged (a euphemism for poor urban black and poor rural white) kids need stability and continuity, not a stream of unprepared, untrained white 22 year old idealists 90% of whom are doing it to play white savior for a couple years while building their resumés and then move on to something with a lot better pay and working conditions. And, in the process, being used by school boards as a cheap position-filler that they don't have to spend money hiring experienced professionals who actually are dedicating more than a couple years of their 20s to educating and helping these communities. (The teacher went on to leverage his experience being a terrible, terrible high school teacher for two years into a career being a professional opinion-haver about teaching, and ended up in the Department of Education. poo poo, it turns out, floats.)
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Aug 27, 2016 02:52
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:Why didn't Obama ever go to bat for ACORN? Why didn't the Democrats go to bat? ACORN has to be one of the worst manufactured controversies of all time. There was a (edited) video of a few employees behaving inappropriately - not even criminally. And that was enough to stop all of ACORN's funding and force it into bankruptcy. An organization with a thousand chapters and half a million members was chapter 11'd because of a stunt, a prank. It's as if a video of a McDonalds employee spitting in a burger shut the entire franchise down. Nonsensical. Sometimes I think my fellow Americans belong to 2 groups - the clinically insane and the rest who are too craven to do anything about it. It's an excuse I use to drink.
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Aug 27, 2016 02:52
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EwokEntourage posted:People don't like it because a) a lot of people in it only do the two years at a stepping stone to something else and potentially take jobs from people who want to be teachers for longer than that 2) they tend to push charter schools and tend to send the better people in the program into charter schools as opposed to public schools As an educator, new teachers are poo poo for the first two or three years until you figure out what the hell you're doing. Well meaning, hard working, enthusiastic and largely clueless. It takes most teachers 3 or 4 years to really settle in and start effectively reaching students. It's an awful disservice to students to constantly put unprepared and ill trained teachers in front of them. It's nice of them to talk about social justice I guess but it's super unfair to the students being taught by TFAers.
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Aug 27, 2016 02:53
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neoliberal posted:Well I disagree I think people need to forcibly be exposed to how corrupt and horrid mankind can be in brutal ways and that's the only way we can prevent those kind of events can ever happen again. The people for whom trigger warnings are an actual thing have already been exposed to those things.
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Aug 27, 2016 02:55
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Nelson Mandingo posted:The islamic shock himself put it best really pro-click right here
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Aug 27, 2016 02:55
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neoliberal posted:Well I disagree I think people need to forcibly be exposed to how corrupt and horrid mankind can be in brutal ways and that's the only way we can prevent those kind of events can ever happen again. Absolutely. Watching footage of holocaust survivors is supposed to uh... "trigger" uncomfortable feelings or strong emotions because the point is to make sure people never loving forget.
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Aug 27, 2016 02:55
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If you're arguing against safe spaces and trigger warnings on the grounds that they are about "avoiding conflicting ideas", then you're arguing against a boogeyman version of these concepts that you learned from a FWD:FWD:FWD style infobubble.
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Aug 27, 2016 02:57
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Zifnab posted:As an educator, new teachers are poo poo for the first two or three years until you figure out what the hell you're doing. Well meaning, hard working, enthusiastic and largely clueless. It takes most teachers 3 or 4 years to really settle in and start effectively reaching students. I'm not disagreeing with you. i just added the other part as an aside that (some) tfa does actually care, they're just using a flawed system. And even a ten or twenty year teacher is going to have difficulties in a lot of schools tfa services. My mom taught in low income areas for a long time, and the schools are systematically broken, and getting rid of tfa ins't going to change any of that. tfa is just a failed solution, akin to common core and bill gate's efforts.
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Aug 27, 2016 02:59
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I wouldn't call common core a failure
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Aug 27, 2016 03:00
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Sweet pill bottle mug.
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Aug 27, 2016 03:02
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greatn posted:I think safe spaces are important to have, but shouldn't be officially sanctioned by any college because they are necessarily exclusionary environments, often dealing with issues the university doesn't have business touching(like for example a safe space for women who do not have penises, it's a little complicated) Lol what? How on earth do you convince people to accept gender is a social construct if they're not allowed to scrutinize it?
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Aug 27, 2016 03:03
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neoliberal posted:Well I disagree I think people need to forcibly be exposed to how corrupt and horrid mankind can be in brutal ways and that's the only way we can prevent those kind of events can ever happen again. I too think people with PTSD need to just get over their hangups and experience fireworks/discussions about topics that hit that particular raw, traumatized nerve they're seeing a therapist regularly to hopefully some day heal and put behind them/movies involving graphic wartime violence or sexual assault with the rest of us and stop being such delicate flowers. Because that's what you argue against when you talk poo poo about trigger warnings. If you want to argue against their cynical, improper use, fine, but acting like advising rape victims that there's going to be a lot of rape talk coming up isn't the loving same as avoiding a discussion about how sometimes white people commit genocide.
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Aug 27, 2016 03:03
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:On his final day of office Obama should pardon Snowden and exile O'Keefe to Siberia. Extraordinary rendition for O'Keefe. Lock his rear end in a Bulgarian dark site.
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Aug 27, 2016 03:05
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As somebody who actually works in a therapeutic setting, I don't understand why the language of group therapy has been applied outside of it. The world is upsetting.
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Aug 27, 2016 03:06
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Dead Cosmonaut posted:I wouldn't call common core a failure It's a bit of a strong characterization
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Aug 27, 2016 03:06
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DaveWoo posted:I am shocked, shocked I tell you, that a major figure in the alt-right turns out to harbor anti-semitic beliefs. This is part of the alt-right ideology I don't really understand. Traditional "14-88" white nationalism absolutely demonizes Jews and supports the bizarre conspiracy theory that Jews are trying to erase the white race by using their control of the global media to encourage multiculturalism, interracial marriage and miscegenation of the white race in general. But the alt right seems to have some prominent Jewish members - Andrew Breitbart was raised Jewish. Ben Shapiro, former editor-at-large of Breitbart, is also Jewish. The alt-right is also strongly pro-Israel and anti-Palestinian, unlike more traditional white nationalists (David Duke actually supports the Palestinians believe it or not), I think because their anti-Muslim and anti-Arab sentiments prevent them from identifying with Palestinians in any way. Is this a case of self-hating minority members being coopted by the movement, like Milo Yiannopolis, or something else?
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Aug 27, 2016 03:07
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It's funny that the alt-right goes on and on about how white people are not allowed to be proud about their culture. White isn't a culture. There's no such thing as cultural whiteness. Irish, German, British, those are all cultures America - that's a culture There are plenty of white people proud of their irish, german, british heritage or proud to be american - they are allowed to be proud But proud to be White isn't a loving culture.
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Aug 27, 2016 03:10
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neoliberal posted:It's funny that the alt-right goes on and on about how white people are not allowed to be proud about their culture. Being White is totally a culture, with a rich heritage that people should be allowed to idolize, this heritage only exists between April 12, 1861 May 9, 1865 for reasons that have nothing to do with race but other mystery reasons
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Aug 27, 2016 03:15
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axe_vendetta posted:This is part of the alt-right ideology I don't really understand. Traditional "14-88" white nationalism absolutely demonizes Jews and supports the bizarre conspiracy theory that Jews are trying to erase the white race by using their control of the global media to encourage multiculturalism, interracial marriage and miscegenation of the white race in general. But the alt right seems to have some prominent Jewish members - Andrew Breitbart was raised Jewish. Ben Shapiro, former editor-at-large of Breitbart, is also Jewish. The alt-right is also strongly pro-Israel and anti-Palestinian, unlike more traditional white nationalists (David Duke actually supports the Palestinians believe it or not), I think because their anti-Muslim and anti-Arab sentiments prevent them from identifying with Palestinians in any way. Is this a case of self-hating minority members being coopted by the movement, like Milo Yiannopolis, or something else? You have to remember that a lot of white nationalists don't really care about killing all the jews, all the blacks, all the whatevers, they just want to never have to deal with them, preferably by moving them far far away (and if they die on the way so much the better). You might remember that amous image of the American Nazi Party hanging out at a rally of black nationalists, because they believed the black nationalists were going to move somewhere and leave everything for the whites, for instance.
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Aug 27, 2016 03:15
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Atahualpa posted:Thanks, I appreciate the explanation. (I've been following politics fairly closely for over a decade, but this is the first election where I've had the time and resources to delve into more nitty-gritty stuff, so I'm still working to catch up on concepts like this that might seem basic to thread regulars.) I think at a high level a lot of terminology is standardized because a lot of campaign managers and staff move around a lot and competitive federal races are heavily backseat-managed by the national-level organizations. But that's not necessarily always true, since politics can vary from "electing some dude to Nowheresville Town Council" on up to President. And once you get deeper than a few layers, there's a lot of variation based on context. Like I talked about "prior experience" or being an elected official or something as a key component of "candidate quality", but exactly how you rank that is kind of up in the air. Like does "Board of Supervisors Chair" outrank "State Senator"? That's actually a conversation I had the other day, and the answer seems to be "it varies depending on the size of the county, and which future office they're looking at running for" - if the county is HUGE, BoS Chair wins, whereas if the county is a 20,000 person backwater you're better off in the state legislature, and if you're going for a statewide elected office you need the contacts being a legislator brings, whereas a Congressional candidate benefits from the exposure being on the Board of Supervisors provides. Now other folks might disagree with that already caveat-heavy analysis because in their state the balance of power between states and localities is different. TheQuietWilds posted:It's worth pointing out that if you've been seeing a gastroenterologist as your primary physician for 40 years he's either a quack or you've got some really severe digestive tract issues. I actually read (on a liberal site) an explanation for this that made a lot of sense to me - specialists when they're starting out sometimes also take on general practice patients just to make ends meet until they build their practice (this was apparently more common in the 1980s). But honestly my suspicion is that Donald Trump is dumb and superstitious. It strikes me as totally plausible that when his previous doctor died in the middle of Trump's "personal Vietnam" (avoiding STDs while being a man-whore in the 70s and 80s), Trump demanded to be treated by his previous doctor's son. (I'm being a little sarcastic here, but not too sarcastic)
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Aug 27, 2016 03:15
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SedanChair posted:As somebody who actually works in a therapeutic setting, I don't understand why the language of group therapy has been applied outside of it. The world is upsetting.
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Aug 27, 2016 03:16
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FAUXTON posted:I too think people with PTSD need to just get over their hangups and experience fireworks/discussions about topics that hit that particular raw, traumatized nerve they're seeing a therapist regularly to hopefully some day heal and put behind them/movies involving graphic wartime violence or sexual assault with the rest of us and stop being such delicate flowers.
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Aug 27, 2016 03:17
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FlamingLiberal posted:That's my biggest issue here. In life you're going to be exposed to terrible things. I don't think we need to protect people from things like that as adults. I understand trying to help people with PTSD avoid triggering, but outside of someone like that most people will live being exposed to some unpleasant things. Trigger warnings aren't about avoiding exposure, though. They're about contextualising and controlling exposure. Here's an actual example of a trigger warning: "Hey class, next lecture we'll be going over some material involving sexual assault. Do what you need to do to prepare yourselves if this is a rough subject for you, and if you're not sure you can handle it at all, please drop by during my office hours." Here's an actual example of a safe space: A campus LGBT association There isn't anything more to it than that, and if you thought there was, you got caught up in some reactionary spin.
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Aug 27, 2016 03:19
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neoliberal posted:Well I disagree I think people need to forcibly be exposed to how corrupt and horrid mankind can be in brutal ways and that's the only way we can prevent those kind of events can ever happen again. Exposing people to negative things "in brutal ways" frequently backfires, because education is complicated and nuanced. If you do it wrong you just desensitize people and end up with goons. Any educational strategy targeted at getting an audience to accept an uncomfortable truth has to be prepared to work through the stages of denial the student is likely to go through. Look how many times patient conversations about racism here have been met with a reflexive "So you're saying I'm evil because I'm white??!?" One of the many horrible things about the workings of the human mind is that when someone sees something terrible happening to another person, the instinct is to assume they had it coming somehow. The worse the punishment, the more the victim must have had it coming. So if you just throw images of human suffering at students with no context all you're doing is creating another batch of Just-World shitheads. Not a great use of taxpayer dollars imo.
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Aug 27, 2016 03:20
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Supercar Gautier posted:Trigger warnings aren't about avoiding exposure, though. They're about contextualising and controlling exposure. no, who cares, i just want to congratulate myself about how i'm so much tougher than all those
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Aug 27, 2016 03:20
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:Exposing people to negative things "in brutal ways" frequently backfires, because education is complicated and nuanced. If you do it wrong you just desensitize people and end up with goons. Any educational strategy targeted at getting an audience to accept an uncomfortable truth has to be prepared to work through the stages of denial the student is likely to go through. Look how many times patient conversations about racism here have been met with a reflexive "So you're saying I'm evil because I'm white??!?" My actual goal was making the world worse. gently caress humanity. The world would be better off if we committed specicide.
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Aug 27, 2016 03:24
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Supercar Gautier posted:Trigger warnings aren't about avoiding exposure, though. They're about contextualising and controlling exposure. That's true, but I don't see the need for that kind of preface. It sets unrealistic expectations for real life. In a therapeutic setting it makes sense because you have specific treatment goals to achieve. One of those goals is to build resilience for encounters in everyday life, where you can't count on warnings.
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Aug 27, 2016 03:26
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neoliberal posted:My actual goal was making the world worse. gently caress humanity. The world would be better off if we committed specicide. Aww, somebody needs attention. It's okay guy, maybe take a nice bubble bath, do some self care. Tomorrow's another day.
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Aug 27, 2016 03:26
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SedanChair posted:That's true, but I don't see the need for that kind of preface. It sets unrealistic expectations for real life. In a therapeutic setting it makes sense because you have specific treatment goals to achieve. One of those goals is to build resilience for encounters in everyday life, where you can't count on warnings. Yes, why ever be polite to anyone, it only leaves people unprepared for rudeness
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Aug 27, 2016 03:28
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axe_vendetta posted:Why didn't the Democrats go to bat? ACORN has to be one of the worst manufactured controversies of all time. There was a (edited) video of a few employees behaving inappropriately - not even criminally. And that was enough to stop all of ACORN's funding and force it into bankruptcy. An organization with a thousand chapters and half a million members was chapter 11'd because of a stunt, a prank. It's as if a video of a McDonalds employee spitting in a burger shut the entire franchise down. Nonsensical. Sometimes I think my fellow Americans belong to 2 groups - the clinically insane and the rest who are too craven to do anything about it. It's an excuse I use to drink. Late 2009 through 2011 were fairly dark days psychologically for Dems, with the rise of the Tea Party and a lot of the Hope that Obama getting elected with a filibuster-proof majority was going to be amazing. So folks were really in the doldrums and scared about their electoral prospects. The truth didn't come out in terms of ACORN largely being cleared of wrongdoing until months later, after it had taken the real financial deathblows. And I'm not really sure folks recognized at the time how inherently full of poo poo Breitbart/O'Keefe were. Like "the whole thing is edited and CGI'd to be 180 degrees the opposite of the truth" was a lot foreign to folks in those days. I mean the stuff that discredited Breitbart and O'Keefe as total hacks (Shirley Sherrod and the New Orleans arrest, respectively) didn't happen until a few months later.
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Aug 27, 2016 03:37
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Supercar Gautier posted:Trigger warnings aren't about avoiding exposure, though. They're about contextualising and controlling exposure.
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Aug 27, 2016 03:37
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Universities are the OG safe spaces.
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Aug 27, 2016 03:38
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:Yes, why ever be polite to anyone, it only leaves people unprepared for rudeness This but unironically. Rudeness is love.
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Aug 27, 2016 03:38
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SedanChair posted:That's true, but I don't see the need for that kind of preface. It sets unrealistic expectations for real life. In a therapeutic setting it makes sense because you have specific treatment goals to achieve. One of those goals is to build resilience for encounters in everyday life, where you can't count on warnings. The idea that personal interactions are Fake Practice until you're all the way out of school is a fiction. If a university professor is being courteous to you, then you are being treated with courtesy by a real person in real life, because universities are real places you go while alive and engage with other real alive people. Congratulations, you're already in the real world and it's probably not a bad thing that a person was nice to you there.
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Aug 27, 2016 03:39
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SedanChair posted:That's true, but I don't see the need for that kind of preface. It sets unrealistic expectations for real life. In a therapeutic setting it makes sense because you have specific treatment goals to achieve. One of those goals is to build resilience for encounters in everyday life, where you can't count on warnings. "Hey, stop being such a pussy" doesn't actually work as a thing. You can't cry over every little thing but telling someone "God, you loser, stop having traumatic experiences" isn't a good thing to say. Many people who have significant trauma find the most comforting thing they can do is avoid experiences that bring it up. That doesn't mean you can avoid it 100% but it also doesn't mean you can't find ways to limit the amount it happens.
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Aug 27, 2016 03:39
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axe_vendetta posted:This is part of the alt-right ideology I don't really understand. Traditional "14-88" white nationalism absolutely demonizes Jews and supports the bizarre conspiracy theory that Jews are trying to erase the white race by using their control of the global media to encourage multiculturalism, interracial marriage and miscegenation of the white race in general. But the alt right seems to have some prominent Jewish members - Andrew Breitbart was raised Jewish. Ben Shapiro, former editor-at-large of Breitbart, is also Jewish. The alt-right is also strongly pro-Israel and anti-Palestinian, unlike more traditional white nationalists (David Duke actually supports the Palestinians believe it or not), I think because their anti-Muslim and anti-Arab sentiments prevent them from identifying with Palestinians in any way. Is this a case of self-hating minority members being coopted by the movement, like Milo Yiannopolis, or something else? Breitbart and Shapiro aren't really a part of the alt-right. Breitbart was just a repugnant conservative until he died and Bannon took over his site, and Shapiro always gets pissed at his edited cartoons. I also think it's really easy for these groups to compartmentalize and treat the other as 'one of the good ones'.
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Aug 27, 2016 03:40
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Trabisnikof posted:Universities are the OG safe spaces. didn't a lot of the folk handwringing about safe spaces go to university back when it was, well, a safe space for white dudes from those people Jerry Manderbilt fucked around with this message at 03:44 on Aug 27, 2016 |
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Aug 27, 2016 03:41
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Before I read the last few pages of this thread I thought the opposition to TW/SSs was based on the strawman version of them and not just "this is a sensitive topic so be ready" but now I know that some people oppose that too. Holy poo poo.
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Aug 27, 2016 03:42
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KOTEX GOD OF BLOOD posted:This conception is agreeable, but again, it's a lot different from what these things mean in reality at a lot of campuses. Colleges are a place where a bunch of children need to start practicing being adults. I don't really see erring on the side of trying to be kinder and more accommodating of others, even if occasionally it's taken too far, as really a problem.
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Aug 27, 2016 03:43
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GalacticAcid posted:Donald Trump's hucksterism is so transparent and shameless, the thought of even a single person casting a vote for him in a primary is shocking to me. A post of mine from May 2015. Still feel more or less the same way. Reading the early pages of that primary thread is a fascinating experience with the knowledge of what's to come.
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