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I'm confused about why the Yo-Kai weapon grind is somehow more palatable to me than the similar leg of Anima...
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Aug 27, 2016 20:54
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Fister Roboto posted:Because it's unnecessary. If you really want to see the raid story but can't raid, you have several options. You can watch a youtube video, you can wait for the raid to be trivialized through nerfs and gear progression, or you can get someone to carry you. To me those sound like reasonable alternatives, and I don't understand why people find them unacceptable. I think it would be really cool if they just nerfed savage to the ground when the next tier comes out so that anybody could do it. Hell, make it a single player scenario with 100% echo and NPCs that heal you for all I care. That way the hardcore players get exclusive access for a few months, the midcore get something to strive for, and the casual players get to see it eventually. But making the content exclusive to hardcore raiders is already super unnecessary. Savage has gear that straight up better than almost everything else in the game atm (and Creator Savage will when it hits) it has exclusive titles and achievements and entire mechanics that basically change how you approach a lot of the fights. Hardcore players are still getting their exclusive rewards and tough fights. The only difference in your scenario is that hardcore players like us get to pretend anything in our digital video game matters and be smug in our superiority that we got to see if early while also cutting new patch content for 95+% of the people playing the game. That's stupid. TheRagamuffin posted:I'm confused about why the Yo-Kai weapon grind is somehow more palatable to me than the similar leg of Anima... Yokai are cute and good and every fate at least gives you a silver token so there's some progress to be made doing the majority of it. Anima fate grinding is an absolute crapshoot where you might not get anything for hours or you might get all 18 you need in as many FATEs so it feels a bit shittier.
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Aug 27, 2016 20:54
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TheRagamuffin posted:I'm confused about why the Yo-Kai weapon grind is somehow more palatable to me than the similar leg of Anima... Less travel time and you can turn in rewards in a sequence? ARR Fates are super easy? I don't know man.
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Aug 27, 2016 20:57
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Virulence posted:A4S is the only boss this expansion I didn't really like. 5-8 are all pretty good bosses, 1-3 were pretty good bosses. I feel the same. Sadly I still want that Gobwalker mount.
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Aug 27, 2016 20:58
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Verranicus posted:Why do the hardcore raiders deserve exclusive access to anything, though? They already have exclusive access to a mount a pet and weapons Just because he "doesn't care about them" doesn't mean they're not exclusive
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Aug 27, 2016 20:59
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sword_man.gif posted:They already have exclusive access to a mount a pet and weapons I made the same point earlier on, I'm just curious how long he's going to keep this bizarre argument going.
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Aug 27, 2016 21:00
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I recently started playing a game called Deus Ex: Mankind Divided, and I was disgusted at the fact that I had to complete the game to play on the only real difficulty setting, I Never Asked For This. That should've been the only difficulty setting in the game, and if some casual bought the game and was unable to finish it, they could just watch it on youtube imo.
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Aug 27, 2016 21:00
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And Fister you're coming at this from a really wrong angle to start off with. Yeah, you a player could just watch the cutscenes on youtube if the dungeon is too hard, but why would Paul Gamedesigner at SE want players to ever do that? It's entirely in their best interest to try to get as many people having fun with content as possible because it's their job to get people playing the video game.
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Aug 27, 2016 21:00
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TBH I kind of wish there was a reward that's only possible to get by doing raid content synced, but I'm probably just biased because I've actually done all of Coil synced.
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Aug 27, 2016 21:01
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Mr. Nice! posted:I've been trying to convince my static to do it to no avail even though we could actually do it. If you ever get them to do it, I need you to have it recorded. It'll either be a complete waste or the funniest thing I've ever seen in FFXIV. All this elite talk is a brutal reminder that I still have not beaten Thordan, Sephirot, OR Nidhogg. I suck.
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Aug 27, 2016 21:03
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vOv posted:TBH I kind of wish there was a reward that's only possible to get by doing raid content synced, but I'm probably just biased because I've actually done all of Coil synced. I think the music scrolls in coil actually do have a higher drop rate if you do it synched.
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Aug 27, 2016 21:03
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vOv posted:TBH I kind of wish there was a reward that's only possible to get by doing raid content synced, but I'm probably just biased because I've actually done all of Coil synced. That would be neat if it was actually possible to convince a full party to enter a raid synced.
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Aug 27, 2016 21:04
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Mymla posted:I think the music scrolls in coil actually do have a higher drop rate if you do it synched.
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Aug 27, 2016 21:04
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Verranicus posted:Anyone can do beast tribe dailies. They're time sinks, they don't require any significant time investment (all at once like raid nights) or skill. Anyone can get good. Researching your job/role and practicing on practice dummies or roulette dungeons or easier content doesn't require a major daily time investment and you can do it by yourself.
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Aug 27, 2016 21:04
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Virulence posted:Anyone can get good. Researching your job/role and practicing on practice dummies or roulette dungeons or easier content doesn't require a major daily time investment and you can do it by yourself. Lol, did you really just go there?
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Aug 27, 2016 21:06
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I'm just glad i finally learned the truth about Bahamut: that Louisoix singlehandedly killed and ate him. I bet he was delicious.
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Aug 27, 2016 21:07
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Virulence posted:Anyone can get good. Researching your job/role and practicing on practice dummies or roulette dungeons or easier content doesn't require a major daily time investment and you can do it by yourself. There's no way to practice the mechanics for a given fight short of actually doing that fight, and if it's the mechanics at the end of the fight you're having a problem with then you need 7 other people that can consistently get there.
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Aug 27, 2016 21:07
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Exclusive access to Tataru no Bouken, to those that clear Triple Triad (Savage)
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Aug 27, 2016 21:08
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:And Fister you're coming at this from a really wrong angle to start off with. Yeah, you a player could just watch the cutscenes on youtube if the dungeon is too hard, but why would Paul Gamedesigner at SE want players to ever do that? It's entirely in their best interest to try to get as many people having fun with content as possible because it's their job to get people playing the video game. Because youtube isn't the only option, like I said. You can get someone to carry you, or you can wait until it's easy enough for you. Meanwhile, there's plenty of other things for you to do. Here's what I want: I want the climactic battle of this raid to feel climactic. I don't think I'm going to be able to get that if it's as easy as normal mode has been. If they just got rid of the normal requirement for savage, I would be OK with it. Not great, but OK.
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Aug 27, 2016 21:08
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Virulence posted:Anyone can get good. Researching your job/role and practicing on practice dummies or roulette dungeons or easier content doesn't require a major daily time investment and you can do it by yourself. But you can also do beast tribe dailies by yourself. You can be the bestest player in the world, but you still need 7 other people to also be pretty good if you want to raid.
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Aug 27, 2016 21:08
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Fister Roboto posted:Because youtube isn't the only option, like I said. You can get someone to carry you, or you can wait until it's easy enough for you. Meanwhile, there's plenty of other things for you to do. Why not great? It gives everyone what they want, unless what they want is just for others to not have something.
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Aug 27, 2016 21:10
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Fister Roboto posted:
I can definitely understand this. Doing T13 synced means that killing Bahamut felt epic because we'd sunk several weeks' worth of raid time into that fight and you could feel the hype building after voice chat as his health bar went down. If we'd already done it in some kind of easy-mode Coil it wouldn't have felt nearly as awesome.
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Aug 27, 2016 21:11
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homeless snail posted:Exclusive access to Tataru no Bouken, to those that clear Triple Triad (Savage) The world will never be prepared for Tataru (Extreme).
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Aug 27, 2016 21:11
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vOv posted:There's no way to practice the mechanics for a given fight short of actually doing that fight, and if it's the mechanics at the end of the fight you're having a problem with then you need 7 other people that can consistently get there. It's much easier to pick up and learn mechanics if you have a good level of understanding and competence at your job and role. If you have a server community that has a population of players that can do this, it becomes much easier to attempt and clear difficult content with PUG groups. This is why there are JP servers with significantly higher Savage clear rates than any other server.
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Aug 27, 2016 21:13
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vOv posted:I can definitely understand this. Doing T13 synced means that killing Bahamut felt epic because we'd sunk several weeks' worth of raid time into that fight and you could feel the hype building after voice chat as his health bar went down. If we'd already done it in some kind of easy-mode Coil it wouldn't have felt nearly as awesome. Exactly. To me, normal mode is like watching a youtube video of the fight. So I can at least grasp that part of the story mode argument.
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Aug 27, 2016 21:15
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Fister Roboto posted:Exactly. To me, normal mode is like watching a youtube video of the fight. So I can at least grasp that part of the story mode argument. If you're so skilled that normal mode is akin to watching a video why haven't you cleared savage??
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Aug 27, 2016 21:16
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Because savage is harder than that. Not a difficult concept.
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Aug 27, 2016 21:18
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Fister Roboto posted:Because savage is harder than that. Not a difficult concept. I'd think someone who was so skilled they could clear normal mode without touching any buttons or interacting (like a video) would be able to handle savage, though. I mean, git gud, right?
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Aug 27, 2016 21:19
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Fister Roboto posted:Because youtube isn't the only option, like I said. You can get someone to carry you, or you can wait until it's easy enough for you. Meanwhile, there's plenty of other things for you to do. Are you actually too dense to see why that's awful design? Like all that would do is appease a tiny tiny portion of your fanbase while loving over the vast majority of them. People generally don't like sitting around with nothing for months on end. And the climatic battle will feel pretty climatic. It'll probably take place on the top of a giant machine god as you fight the Illuminait sages and their last Mecha Armor as they loving up time and space around you and some absolutely amazing music blasts you and it'll be difficult enough week 1 that you'll actually have to pay some attention and learn a few mechanics and stay on your toes to not wipe a few times fighting him. It won't be the hardest fight in the game but that doesn't mean it won't be climatic. Final Fantasy has a long history of amazing climatic final bosses that are actually kind of easy fights over all (See: FF1, 2, 4, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 10-2, 13, 13-2, etc.) Difficulty alone doesn't make a final boss feel like The Final Boss.
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Aug 27, 2016 21:20
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Virulence posted:It's much easier to pick up and learn mechanics if you have a good level of understanding and competence at your job and role. If you have a server community that has a population of players that can do this, it becomes much easier to attempt and clear difficult content with PUG groups. This is why there are JP servers with significantly higher Savage clear rates than any other server. Meanwhile on the Western servers, you get the people who say things like "IT'S MY $12 DON'T TELL ME HOW TO PLAY MY JOB" if you try to give any advice, which leads to the general community being god drat awful.
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Aug 27, 2016 21:20
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vOv posted:I can definitely understand this. Doing T13 synced means that killing Bahamut felt epic because we'd sunk several weeks' worth of raid time into that fight and you could feel the hype building after voice chat as his health bar went down. If we'd already done it in some kind of easy-mode Coil it wouldn't have felt nearly as awesome. If that were the only complaint, I don't see how that isn't solved by making Savage open from the jump instead of needing to clear Normal first.
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Aug 27, 2016 21:22
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:Are you actually too dense to see why that's awful design? Like all that would do is appease a tiny tiny portion of your fanbase while loving over the vast majority of them. People generally don't like sitting around with nothing for months on end. But there's not nothing to do. Alex is not the only activity in the game. There's a shitload of other things for people to do. And like I've already said, I'm totally in favor of there being more casual content. Verranicus posted:I'd think someone who was so skilled they could clear normal mode without touching any buttons or interacting (like a video) would be able to handle savage, though. I mean, git gud, right? This might be the weakest attempt at an own I've ever seen.
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Aug 27, 2016 21:23
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Fister Roboto posted:And because, like I said, story mode doesn't encourage people to stick around for very long. The majority of players can beat story mode in a single day, so what reason to they have to stay subbed between patches? You could do it all in a free login weekend. Yes, there are other reasons for people to stay subbed, but story mode is not one of them. Fister Roboto posted:Does the fact that they would have exclusive access to something for a short period of time hurt you in any way?  Challenge and overcoming that challenge is an intrinsic part of the reward for Savage, along with the gear, titles and other cosmetic things that they have exclusive access to. I can totally get wanting more exclusive stuff (I want more stuff period) but there's millions of us and dozens of them, so they have to choose who to cater to first and foremost. Savage and Story are unnecessary but it's cool that we have the choice of them. (Having a better choice is something that everyone can get behind IE not requiring normal to unlock it.) We could very easily not have a choice and either player group would have to suck it up and deal with it (such as with pre-savage coil.) It would be cool if they found ways to toss some more rewards in for accomplishing difficult stuff. It would also be cool if they set their difficulty bar lower to let more people access those rewards while they were exclusive. It would even be cool if they set it higher and made the exclusive rewards that much rarer. Throw in some World First titles, let the people be super special snowflakes. But ultimately it's up to them how they cater to their playerbase. Regarding Alexander difficulties and how it requires 'perfect or nothing' execution, that stems partly from SE's content creators trying to preserve difficulty in the face of World First raiders for the sake of other Savage raiders. Fact of the matter is once content has been beaten it's only a matter of time until working strategies get out about the content which nerfs it's difficulty. Requiring perfect execution happens to be a really effective difficulty preservation decision.
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Aug 27, 2016 21:24
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And if story mode is so easy that anyone can do it in a day, then guess what? They're sitting around for months with "nothing" to do anyway.
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Aug 27, 2016 21:24
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You guys just don't get that even allowing savage raiders to jump straight into Savage raids without doing the story bit wouldn't work, because god dammit how can I enjoy this awesome cutscene if John Q pubbie already got to see it through the no-effort mode three weeks ago 
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Aug 27, 2016 21:27
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Even if loot was removed from Alexander Savage, people would still run it because of the intrinsic value in bragging rights. After all, people did just that with Second Coil.
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Aug 27, 2016 21:28
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fount of knowledge posted:You guys just don't get that even allowing savage raiders to jump straight into Savage raids without doing the story bit wouldn't work, because god dammit how can I enjoy this awesome cutscene if John Q pubbie already got to see it through the no-effort mode three weeks ago gently caress those scrub casuals thinking they deserve the same content I do in a game made for casuals.
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Aug 27, 2016 21:29
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Fister Roboto posted:But there's not nothing to do. Alex is not the only activity in the game. There's a shitload of other things for people to do. And like I've already said, I'm totally in favor of there being more casual content. Except Alex Normal apparently. but no seriously, if they come back just for alexander they're probably going to look at all the other new stuff that popped up since and also do that. it's not that hard to follow EponymousMrYar posted:The counterpoint to this is that they come back to beat it in a day, then do a bunch of other things for the month they resub. If they couldn't do that, statistics say some of them wouldn't come back and that's lost revenue and sometimes the bottom line trumps everything else.
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Aug 27, 2016 21:30
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So what's the argument here? That having a "story mode" difficulty and a "gently caress this is difficult as poo poo" difficulty raid somehow takes away from the game? I'm not a raider. I am extremely grateful that I can experience what Alexander has to offer, even if it's in a limited form mechanically, at my own pace, and comfortably. That alone has kept me in the game more than anything. That and these relic/anima quests. I eat that poo poo up.
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Aug 27, 2016 21:32
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This is some straight up official forums poo poo we're arguing about now I hope you guys realize
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Aug 27, 2016 21:32
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