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Every first season of a ST series is bad with the exception of TOS, which has a good portion of the series' best
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Aug 28, 2016 02:25
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FlamingLiberal posted:Every first season of a ST series is bad with the exception of TOS, which has a good portion of the series' best First season DS9 isn't bad. It just isn't at its peak yet.
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Aug 28, 2016 02:28
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It's kind of insane how good TOS' first season is.
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Aug 28, 2016 02:29
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Big Mean Jerk posted:It's kind of insane how good TOS' first season is. I'm not gonna say it's all downhill from there since it did include The Alternative Factor, but it probably has a higher density of absolutely classic episodes than any other season in the entire franchise.
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Aug 28, 2016 02:56
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Railing Kill posted:Farscape would at least have the decency to A) not have it be a literal rape, and B) find a way to have fun with a weird situation and still have the human character lose his mind over it. Actually, Farscape DID have Crichton get raped, and he was absolutely not OK with it.
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Aug 28, 2016 03:16
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Gau posted:I'm reading Spock's World as part of my delve into the bargain bin Star Trek books at my local used bookstore. A major part of the plot so far is centered around how the Enterprise has a BBS - like, not a Space Ship Forum but literally a BBS that they call a BBS and has posts like Usenet. It's hilariously nineties. I read Spock's World back when it first came out but wow, I don't remember any of that. In fact, come to think of it, the only parts of it that I DO remember are the chapters that flash back to various points in Vulcan's history and basically drop a complete short story into the middle of the novel. I remember there was one about the cavevulcan who invented language and tools, and another one about an early spaceship that finds an asteroid full of diamonds, or something like that. I should re-read it at some point. The BBS thing sounds hilarious.
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Aug 28, 2016 03:22
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Oh Jesus, I just watched The Menagerie P.1 and the Starbase11 shuttle has PICASSO printed across its front like some lovely Mac OS7 add-on from 1996. Shuttlecraft ... Now with Intel inside!
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Aug 28, 2016 03:36
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Powered Descent posted:I read Spock's World back when it first came out but wow, I don't remember any of that. In fact, come to think of it, the only parts of it that I DO remember are the chapters that flash back to various points in Vulcan's history and basically drop a complete short story into the middle of the novel. I remember there was one about the cavevulcan who invented language and tools, and another one about an early spaceship that finds an asteroid full of diamonds, or something like that. A planet where people can shitpost with their minds! No wonder Vulcan needed Surak.
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Aug 28, 2016 03:38
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I just noticed that Gowron has a clit on his forehead.
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Aug 28, 2016 07:14
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Fister Roboto posted:I just noticed that Gowron has a clit on his forehead. Why do you think his eyes are always bulging?
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Aug 28, 2016 08:10
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So the Bell Riots take place under President Trump, right?
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Aug 28, 2016 12:07
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Gaz-L posted:Actually, Farscape DID have Crichton get raped, and he was absolutely not OK with it. I don't remember that specifically, but I'll take your word for it. There is nothing I would place off the table for Farscape. But the important part is that if it is used, it is handled appropriately. MorgaineDax posted:So the Bell Riots take place under President Trump, right? Hahahahahahaha oh god
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Aug 28, 2016 12:26
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Railing Kill posted:I don't remember that specifically, but I'll take your word for it. There is nothing I would place off the table for Farscape. But the important part is that if it is used, it is handled appropriately. The Peacekeeper Commander used her magic alien pheromones to seduce him. Later on when he's confronting her like a season later he specifically calls it out as raping him, which is so much better than sci-fi usually does in that scenario.
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Aug 28, 2016 12:40
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The first adult shows I ever got into were Star Treks so I have this deep rooted thing in me about the first season or two of any show must be bad, and am to this day always a little surprised when a show is good right from the beginning. Or god forbid when the beginning is the best part and it gets worse, that's just bizarre.
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Aug 28, 2016 13:19
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Grand Fromage posted:Or god forbid when the beginning is the best part and it gets worse, that's just bizarre. BSG 
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Aug 28, 2016 13:26
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Otisburg posted:BSG Having gone back recently, even that first season, while good, feels incredibly dated, tone-wise.
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Aug 28, 2016 14:36
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Gau posted:the Enterprise has a BBS - like, not a Space Ship Forum but literally a BBS that they call a BBS and has posts like Usenet. It's hilariously nineties. Picard faxed orders around in the first TNG episode.
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Aug 28, 2016 15:31
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Sash! posted:Picard faxed orders around in the first TNG episode. It's actually a Japanese starship.
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Aug 28, 2016 15:33
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Nessus posted:I remember this came up in the Romulan Way, too, but it was like a description of telepathic networks which was just really obviously analogous to BBSes if you knew what a BBS or Usenet was. Which, at the time that she wrote, might not have been very common knowledge, and is once again perhaps rarer than it used to be. Imagine, suddenly someone's whispering in your brain that you're a G__ D___ F_____ N_____ C___ while you're trying to enjoy an educational holoprogram or a quiet philosophical debate over Vulcan spice tea. All you can do is go whining to the mind mods
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Aug 28, 2016 15:42
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MorgaineDax posted:So the Bell Riots take place under President Trump, right? Jeez are those really coming up soon? Man before you know it our soldiers will snort figure Crack.
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Aug 28, 2016 16:04
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Kingtheninja posted:Jeez are those really coming up soon? Man before you know it our soldiers will snort figure Crack. "We pledge our loyalty to the Founders, from now until death." "Then receive this reward from the Founders, may it keep you strong."
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Aug 28, 2016 16:07
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Powered Descent posted:I read Spock's World back when it first came out but wow, I don't remember any of that. In fact, come to think of it, the only parts of it that I DO remember are the chapters that flash back to various points in Vulcan's history and basically drop a complete short story into the middle of the novel. I remember there was one about the cavevulcan who invented language and tools, and another one about an early spaceship that finds an asteroid full of diamonds, or something like that. Here, I will save you the trouble. Prologue: Sarek gets a phone call. Spock sits on the bridge and thinks. Kirk drinks in an Irish pub. (20 pages) Chapter 1: Kirk walks around the starship, talks to people, checks the BBS. (35 pages) Chapter 2: A detailed description of Vulcan's formation from the beginning of its stellar cloud to the beginnings of life. (11 pages) Chapter 3: Kirk goes to a party on the Enterprise. (27 pages) Chapter 4: Proto-Vulcan finds a desert, invents words. (21 pages) E Eridani flares and destroys most life on Vulcan. (2.5 pages) Chapter 5: Kirk goes to a party on Vulcan. (30 pages) Chapter 6: Tribal Vulcans adapt to their environment (pointy ears and nictating membranes) and slaughter each other. (25 pages) Chapter 7: McCoy visits a library. Kirk checks the BBS and visits Spock's parents' house. (26 pages) I'm over halfway through and the story has no forward movement. Kirk hasn't actually done anything, he just talks to people. The historical stuff is neat (I guess) but if you're going to write a framing story at least make it interesting. Gau fucked around with this message at 18:57 on Aug 28, 2016 |
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Aug 28, 2016 18:48
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MorgaineDax posted:So the Bell Riots take place under President Trump, right? Were the Bell Riots after the Eugenics wars but before WW3?
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Aug 28, 2016 20:01
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MrJacobs posted:Were the Bell Riots after the Eugenics wars but before WW3?
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Aug 28, 2016 20:38
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I'm just watching unification (is this a typo in the Blu Ray menu?) part 2 of TNG and the scene of Riker in the bar talking to the 4 armed piano player has just made me realise what I've always found stale in star trek. It's too bland and sterile. Like, all aliens are just humans with a different mask. Where are space pirates and bounty hunters and the like? Don't get me wrong, there's bad stuff out there but it all feels so... civilised.
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Aug 28, 2016 21:09
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Kin posted:I'm just watching unification (is this a typo in the Blu Ray menu?) part 2 of TNG and the scene of Riker in the bar talking to the 4 armed piano player has just made me realise what I've always found stale in star trek. It's too bland and sterile. I think there was/is a standing rule against space pirates/bounty hunters, but then again there are early ferengi.
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Aug 28, 2016 21:20
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And there are space pirates in TNG S7 as well.
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Aug 28, 2016 21:28
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Of all of the near-future (well, at least at the time) stuff in the Trek timeline (Eugenics Wars, WWIII, etc.), the Bell Riots seemed like the most plausible to me. It feels like the most likely scenario to come to pass, even forgiving the sci fi tech involved in some of the other scenarios. People are just so goddamn stupid and small-minded and fall for authoritarian hucksters all the time. That, paired with how we are hurtling toward a post-labor global economy in a lot of places, so all of that is going to make things lovely one way or another. Some US cities have already tried penning-up homeless people in the last few years. The Sanctuary District was the first thing I thought of when I read about it. 
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Aug 28, 2016 21:33
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I think when Star Trek tries to write "bounty hunters and space pirates" style sci fi you get The Outrageous Okona.
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Aug 28, 2016 21:34
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Pakled posted:I think when Star Trek tries to write "bounty hunters and space pirates" style sci fi you get The Outrageous Okona. Or "Mudd's Women."
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Aug 28, 2016 21:41
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Enterprise handles the rough and tumble nature of space pretty well. It's new and dangerous and people will scam you if you let them (or just rob you blind). DS9 touches on some of it but it's made clear that piracy inside the Federation is pretty rare.
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Aug 28, 2016 21:43
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Apollodorus posted:And there are space pirates in TNG S7 as well. Hell, the Ferengi that capture the ship in Rascals were pretty much space pirates too. Pakled posted:I think when Star Trek tries to write "bounty hunters and space pirates" style sci fi you get The Outrageous Okona. Also Gambit.
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Aug 28, 2016 21:45
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Zurui posted:Enterprise handles the rough and tumble nature of space pretty well. It's new and dangerous and people will scam you if you let them (or just rob you blind). Yeah. There being no money makes piracy kind of a lame proposition. You could steal from someone (at great risk) and... give it away? No one is going to buy hot merch from you because A) they have no money, and B) they can just go down the street and get it easily from their friendly neighborhood socialist utopia. The fringes are another matter, which is why the non-joke option in all of this is Quark. He even find ways to make buyers and sellers out of stupid hyoo-mons that have no money.
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Aug 28, 2016 21:49
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"The Menagerie" is so loving good.
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Aug 28, 2016 22:02
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They were determined to avoid space pirates and the like because they were cliche, which they are, but their also fun. Either way I think avoiding them fits Star Trek, for the most part. It's all about how what a great utopia the Federation is and how people crave military/exploration service just because their so loving bored. The action and storytelling possibilities(not counting corruption) comes from when they get pushed out of their comfort zone. While wretched hives of scum and villainy fit that, there's not much reason to go to places like that unless their chasing someone or something already, and they just don't exist in their usual areas. There are probably occasional pirates in Federation space but when the local dominant power has giant rear end galactic cruisers as their peacetime fun happy capital ship and you've got a trillion of those running around, you don't exactly need a Green Lantern to reign in space crime. Although, thinking about that, it'd be interesting if there was ever an episode about people taking advantage of the focus on the Dominion War. WickedHate fucked around with this message at 22:10 on Aug 28, 2016 |
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Aug 28, 2016 22:07
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egon_beeblebrox posted:"The Menagerie" is so loving good. It's not as great when you've already watched the pilot and it's pretty much a clip show.
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Aug 28, 2016 22:08
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Railing Kill posted:The fringes are another matter, which is why the non-joke option in all of this is Quark. He even find ways to make buyers and sellers out of stupid hyoo-mons that have no money. I guess that's more of Star Trek i'd actually like to see. gently caress going back to ToS era, stick with post DS9/Voyager, but have some nice character rich storylines exploring parts of the Star Trek universe we don't really see, like the very fringes of Federation space where poo poo is a little bit wilder. I'd love it if the format change a bit too (like with Deep space 9). So instead of a ship, we've got this band of characters on some commerce hub world of sorts at the fringes/badlands. They might not be part of the Federation yet or whatever and the general overarching story is about them dealing with all the different factions kicking about up there whilst eventually choosing to join one. Throw in some universe level bad guys like the Borg or whatever and i think you could have some great stories about how fundamentally small and overwhelmed they are compared to the bigger picture. Their isolation might also be a way of getting around the super tech that's floating around in TNG and beyond. No replicators, no time travel, barely any high level tech other than what makes its way there, etc. You could still do some space travel, but it would be limited to a small region of space and only a handful of planets that we could get more familiar with over the series instead of generic planet of the week.
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Aug 28, 2016 22:09
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Kin posted:the very fringes of Federation space where poo poo is a little bit wilder. That was DS9. Kin posted:I'd love it if the format change a bit too (like with Deep space 9). So instead of a ship, we've got this band of characters on some commerce hub world of sorts at the fringes/badlands. They might not be part of the Federation yet or whatever and the general overarching story is about them dealing with all the different factions kicking about up there whilst eventually choosing to join one. Throw in some universe level bad guys like the Borg or whatever and i think you could have some great stories about how fundamentally small and overwhelmed they are compared to the bigger picture. This was all DS9. Not that I'm saying the concepts can't be done again, but DS9 did all that. Not to their full effect, though. The whole "frontier" thing ended pretty much right after the pilot.
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Aug 28, 2016 22:13
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Pakled posted:I think when Star Trek tries to write "bounty hunters and space pirates" style sci fi you get The Outrageous Okona. And neelix
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Aug 28, 2016 22:16
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The eugenics wars and WW3 were probably more believable when they were written.
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Aug 28, 2016 22:16
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