- ArmedZombie
- Jun 6, 2004
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God drat america.
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Aug 27, 2016 22:23
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- Adbot
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Jun 3, 2024 23:52
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- distortion park
- Apr 25, 2011
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also the US trains are 186mph vs 125mph, which is a big difference. hes that guy that takes a picture of a base model shitbox into the dealer and wants the super expensive sportscar for the same price
It's also more expensive per train than the lower volume, faster duplex train contract they sold to morroco recently, including maintenance
É: way more detail here:
https://pedestrianobservations.wordpress.com/2015/09/22/amtrak-pays-more-than-double-for-high-speed-trains/
quote:2015/09/22
Amtrak Pays More Than Double for High-Speed Trains
Update 2016/8/16: the deal is on, per sources at Amtrak; the cost is $2.5 billion, as reported originally.
Update 9/24: as Alex Block notes in comments, sources at Amtrak deny the story, saying that Schumer spoke too soon, and there are still two bidders and Amtrak has not yet made its choice. If the cost turns out to be $1-1.25 billion rather than $2.5 billion, I will withdraw any and all criticism of the procurement process.
A press release from Senator Charles Schumer’s office is abuzz: Amtrak chose Alstom’s bid for its next order of high-speed trainsets, the Next-Generation Acelas. The press release mentions the size of the contract, $2.5 billion, and the number of jobs it would create, 750; it did not include any information relevant to passengers, such as the number of trains, the expected schedule of delivery, the expected frequency, and the expected travel time. Variousmedia outlets have reprinted Schumer’s press release without such additional information, or indeed any analysis. Let me rectify this and provide some background as to why this order is a fleece.
The order is for 28 trainsets with 425 seats each. This can be seen here and here. Of those 28 sets, 25 should be available for maximum service, well below the 98% peak availability achieved by the TGV, but an improvement over the Acela’s current 16 trains available out of 20. There is no mention of the number of cars, which is how orders are usually priced. However, on page 30 of the technical specs, it is mentioned that the maximum length is 200 meters, equivalent to 8 cars. The capacity is equivalent to about six cars’ worth of seating at the normal seat density of economy-class HSR (including the Amtrak Regional coach), or about seven cars’ worth averaged over all occupied Acela cars. The RFP mentions half a bistro car with an option for a full car (page 21 of instructions to offerors), so eight cars per train is a reasonable assumption. I have seen references to ten cars per set, which I believe come from the option for two additional cars per train (the instructions phrase this as “an extra 33.33% capacity”). From Schumer’s press release it’s difficult to know whether the $2.5 billion figure is the base order or also the option.
Eight cars per train times 28 trains equals 224 cars. $2.5 billion divided by 224 equals $11.2 million per car; if I am wrong and these are ten-car trains, then it is $8.9 million per car. In China, a very high-speed train, capable of 350-380 km/h, costs $4 million per car; this is $900 million at the size of Amtrak’s order. In Europe, the new Eurostar order cost a total of €600-700 million for ten 16-car Velaro trainsets, about $4.7-5.5 million per car in PPP terms (seehere and here); the uncertainty comes from euro:pound conversion rates and from the fact that a portion of the order is for refurbishment of the older trainsets. Siemens also sold 8-car Velaros to Deutsche Bahn for $5.2 million per car, again in PPP terms. Japanese trains are even cheaper, about $3 million per car in a recent N700 order, but only last 20 years, whereas European HSR trainsets last 40 and Amtrak specified a 30-year shelf life. The only non-US trainset order that I’ve seen that approaches the $10 million per car mark is the Velaro RUS, which is €600 million for eight 10-car trains, and this includes substantial modifications, such as winterization.
distortion park fucked around with this message at 22:36 on Aug 27, 2016
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Aug 27, 2016 22:33
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- H.P. Hovercraft
- Jan 12, 2004
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one thing a computer can do that most humans can't is be sealed up in a cardboard box and sit in a warehouse
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Slippery Tilde
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engineering a passenger train rolling bunker to survive a full on frontal crash with a freight train is dumb and pointless, you install safety equipment along the track that gets the passenger train to stop before it runs into the broken-down freight train like we do in superior kommunist europe
yea let me just accept liability for designing that train
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Aug 27, 2016 22:35
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- Shaggar
- Apr 26, 2006
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engineering a passenger train rolling bunker to survive a full on frontal crash with a freight train is dumb and pointless, you install safety equipment along the track that gets the passenger train to stop before it runs into the broken-down freight train like we do in superior kommunist europe
it happens all the time in Europe.
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Aug 27, 2016 22:37
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- Shaggar
- Apr 26, 2006
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like that last one in Italy where the cars disintegrated when they hit each other because they were made of and by and for cheap eurotrash.
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Aug 27, 2016 22:37
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- Asymmetric POSTer
- Aug 17, 2005
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it happens all the time in Europe.
if you look at the number of passenger trips on trains in europe vs the number of accidents its pretty drat low
whereas the probability of dying on the DC metro is approaching the same level as driving a car
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Aug 27, 2016 22:44
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- H.P. Hovercraft
- Jan 12, 2004
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one thing a computer can do that most humans can't is be sealed up in a cardboard box and sit in a warehouse
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Slippery Tilde
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businesses in europe do it all the time
yep that's what i was mocking
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Aug 28, 2016 00:35
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- blugu64
- Jul 17, 2006
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Do you realize that fluoridation is the most monstrously conceived and dangerous communist plot we have ever had to face?
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why would i take a train or bus when i am gainfully employed? boeing and ford please and thanks.
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Aug 28, 2016 06:44
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- blugu64
- Jul 17, 2006
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Do you realize that fluoridation is the most monstrously conceived and dangerous communist plot we have ever had to face?
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the only flight i'd take from london is whatever the first flight is that gets my rear end back to Texas.
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Aug 28, 2016 15:55
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- Shaggar
- Apr 26, 2006
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If you'd rather fly from London to Paris then you're a moron.
yeah for really short distances like that driving is fine.
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Aug 28, 2016 16:01
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- blugu64
- Jul 17, 2006
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Do you realize that fluoridation is the most monstrously conceived and dangerous communist plot we have ever had to face?
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yeah for really short distances like that driving is fine.
lol driving from london to paris is shorter the Dallas to San Antonio, and I definitely fly that one if its a holiday weekend.
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Aug 28, 2016 16:10
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- Notorious b.s.d.
- Jan 25, 2003
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by Reene
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amtrak is not expected to pay its own capital costs. so no poo poo they get mediocre deals. they care much more about optics and safety and impressive service than the price. the price is irrelevant.
it makes it very difficult to give a gently caress about one bad deal when all of the deals are likely to be bad and we know exactly why they are bad
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Aug 28, 2016 16:14
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- Asymmetric POSTer
- Aug 17, 2005
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Aug 28, 2016 16:39
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- ArmedZombie
- Jun 6, 2004
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stolen from the anonymous confessions thread
quote:
I used to be an LRV (light rail vehicle) operator. I got demoted back to bus for being an unfunny smartass. See, our trains had these various audio cues you could activate. They also had Muzak (which I wished we could play during revenue service or at least while deadheading, but our managers hate fun so they say no) along with assorted cues based on different holidays. So for instance you could have the train play a little Jingle Bells riff around Christmastime.
On a cold February evening, I pulled into the last station on my route. I got out of the cab to check for anybody still asleep and to take inventory of any left items. There was an elderly man in the frontmost car of the consist, near my cab, who appeared asleep and could not be roused. I called over the radio that I couldn't wake up a passenger and a supervisor arrived some time later. When he couldn't wake the old man and worried something was medically wrong with him, he called the sheriff, who in turn called the Coroner. At this point I was ordered to stand by in the cab and basically stay out of the way.
However, within earshot of the goings on, I could hear the Coroner confirm that the elderly man had in fact expired on my train. Given the rare opportunity, I punched in a particular code in the train's computer; K57. The supervisor, Sheriff and deputies, and Coroner were then serenaded with a lovely rendition of "Taps" which played for the Memorial Day holiday cue. Apparently the Supervisor didn't appreciate my sense of irony.
And that is why I am no longer a LRV operator.
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Aug 28, 2016 17:48
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- Schadenboner
- Aug 15, 2011
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by Shine
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stolen from the anonymous confessions thread
quote:
I used to be an LRV (light rail vehicle) operator. I got demoted back to bus for being an unfunny smartass. See, our trains had these various audio cues you could activate. They also had Muzak (which I wished we could play during revenue service or at least while deadheading, but our managers hate fun so they say no) along with assorted cues based on different holidays. So for instance you could have the train play a little Jingle Bells riff around Christmastime.
On a cold February evening, I pulled into the last station on my route. I got out of the cab to check for anybody still asleep and to take inventory of any left items. There was an elderly man in the frontmost car of the consist, near my cab, who appeared asleep and could not be roused. I called over the radio that I couldn't wake up a passenger and a supervisor arrived some time later. When he couldn't wake the old man and worried something was medically wrong with him, he called the sheriff, who in turn called the Coroner. At this point I was ordered to stand by in the cab and basically stay out of the way.
However, within earshot of the goings on, I could hear the Coroner confirm that the elderly man had in fact expired on my train. Given the rare opportunity, I punched in a particular code in the train's computer; K57. The supervisor, Sheriff and deputies, and Coroner were then serenaded with a lovely rendition of "Taps" which played for the Memorial Day holiday cue. Apparently the Supervisor didn't appreciate my sense of irony.
And that is why I am no longer a LRV operator.
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Aug 28, 2016 18:00
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- Asymmetric POSTer
- Aug 17, 2005
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stolen from the anonymous confessions thread
quote:
I used to be an LRV (light rail vehicle) operator. I got demoted back to bus for being an unfunny smartass. See, our trains had these various audio cues you could activate. They also had Muzak (which I wished we could play during revenue service or at least while deadheading, but our managers hate fun so they say no) along with assorted cues based on different holidays. So for instance you could have the train play a little Jingle Bells riff around Christmastime.
On a cold February evening, I pulled into the last station on my route. I got out of the cab to check for anybody still asleep and to take inventory of any left items. There was an elderly man in the frontmost car of the consist, near my cab, who appeared asleep and could not be roused. I called over the radio that I couldn't wake up a passenger and a supervisor arrived some time later. When he couldn't wake the old man and worried something was medically wrong with him, he called the sheriff, who in turn called the Coroner. At this point I was ordered to stand by in the cab and basically stay out of the way.
However, within earshot of the goings on, I could hear the Coroner confirm that the elderly man had in fact expired on my train. Given the rare opportunity, I punched in a particular code in the train's computer; K57. The supervisor, Sheriff and deputies, and Coroner were then serenaded with a lovely rendition of "Taps" which played for the Memorial Day holiday cue. Apparently the Supervisor didn't appreciate my sense of irony.
And that is why I am no longer a LRV operator.
lol
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Aug 28, 2016 18:01
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- Notorious b.s.d.
- Jan 25, 2003
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by Reene
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sometimes I get a J train with a cool conductor
couple of months ago he announced at every stop THIS IS A J TRAIN TO JAMAICA CENTER THIS TRAIN WILL BE GOING OVER THE WILLIAMSBURG BRIDGE then when we went over the bridge he went on the PA to give the history of it
you can always tell the part-timers
the full time guys will never get on the mic except to yell about fuckers blocking the doors
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Aug 28, 2016 18:38
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- H.P. Hovercraft
- Jan 12, 2004
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one thing a computer can do that most humans can't is be sealed up in a cardboard box and sit in a warehouse
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Slippery Tilde
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stolen from the anonymous confessions thread
quote:
I used to be an LRV (light rail vehicle) operator. I got demoted back to bus for being an unfunny smartass. See, our trains had these various audio cues you could activate. They also had Muzak (which I wished we could play during revenue service or at least while deadheading, but our managers hate fun so they say no) along with assorted cues based on different holidays. So for instance you could have the train play a little Jingle Bells riff around Christmastime.
On a cold February evening, I pulled into the last station on my route. I got out of the cab to check for anybody still asleep and to take inventory of any left items. There was an elderly man in the frontmost car of the consist, near my cab, who appeared asleep and could not be roused. I called over the radio that I couldn't wake up a passenger and a supervisor arrived some time later. When he couldn't wake the old man and worried something was medically wrong with him, he called the sheriff, who in turn called the Coroner. At this point I was ordered to stand by in the cab and basically stay out of the way.
However, within earshot of the goings on, I could hear the Coroner confirm that the elderly man had in fact expired on my train. Given the rare opportunity, I punched in a particular code in the train's computer; K57. The supervisor, Sheriff and deputies, and Coroner were then serenaded with a lovely rendition of "Taps" which played for the Memorial Day holiday cue. Apparently the Supervisor didn't appreciate my sense of irony.
And that is why I am no longer a LRV operator.
holy lol
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Aug 28, 2016 20:03
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- H.P. Hovercraft
- Jan 12, 2004
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one thing a computer can do that most humans can't is be sealed up in a cardboard box and sit in a warehouse
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Slippery Tilde
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on the caltrain for my commute home i love when i get the pothead conductor since he makes dad jokes about every station name and everyone unsmilingly looks at eachother
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Aug 28, 2016 20:05
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- Progressive JPEG
- Feb 19, 2003
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the only flight i'd take from london is whatever the first flight is that gets my rear end back to Texas.
God drat trap sprung
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Aug 28, 2016 21:58
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- Captain Foo
- May 11, 2004
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we vibin'
we slidin'
we breathin'
we dyin'
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stolen from the anonymous confessions thread
quote:
I used to be an LRV (light rail vehicle) operator. I got demoted back to bus for being an unfunny smartass. See, our trains had these various audio cues you could activate. They also had Muzak (which I wished we could play during revenue service or at least while deadheading, but our managers hate fun so they say no) along with assorted cues based on different holidays. So for instance you could have the train play a little Jingle Bells riff around Christmastime.
On a cold February evening, I pulled into the last station on my route. I got out of the cab to check for anybody still asleep and to take inventory of any left items. There was an elderly man in the frontmost car of the consist, near my cab, who appeared asleep and could not be roused. I called over the radio that I couldn't wake up a passenger and a supervisor arrived some time later. When he couldn't wake the old man and worried something was medically wrong with him, he called the sheriff, who in turn called the Coroner. At this point I was ordered to stand by in the cab and basically stay out of the way.
However, within earshot of the goings on, I could hear the Coroner confirm that the elderly man had in fact expired on my train. Given the rare opportunity, I punched in a particular code in the train's computer; K57. The supervisor, Sheriff and deputies, and Coroner were then serenaded with a lovely rendition of "Taps" which played for the Memorial Day holiday cue. Apparently the Supervisor didn't appreciate my sense of irony.
And that is why I am no longer a LRV operator.
That guy owns and it's a shame he got demoted
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Aug 29, 2016 00:44
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- H.P. Hovercraft
- Jan 12, 2004
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one thing a computer can do that most humans can't is be sealed up in a cardboard box and sit in a warehouse
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Slippery Tilde
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the best is when comedians bitch about los angeles when they're forced to move there from nyc
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Aug 29, 2016 18:16
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- blugu64
- Jul 17, 2006
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Do you realize that fluoridation is the most monstrously conceived and dangerous communist plot we have ever had to face?
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the problem is all the nimby hippies demanding we don't add another 3-4 more lanes.
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Aug 29, 2016 18:17
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Jun 3, 2024 23:52
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- H.P. Hovercraft
- Jan 12, 2004
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one thing a computer can do that most humans can't is be sealed up in a cardboard box and sit in a warehouse
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Slippery Tilde
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yeah let's drop however many billion into increasing capacity by 5%
that improves traffic conditions for 6 months tops before demand is induced enough to take up that additional capacity
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Aug 29, 2016 18:32
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