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HEY GAL posted:didn't ALL PRO SEXMAN mention some admiral's sushi opinions? we also need to get a milhist menu going Oh yeah, Sir Arthur Wilson VC had some sort of attache job in Japan around the time of the Meiji Restoration. He described sushi in one of his letters to his sister or his parents. He said it was alright as far as fish rolled in rice went, but he wasn't a fan. Vincent Van Goatse fucked around with this message at 18:54 on Aug 29, 2016 |
# ? Aug 29, 2016 18:51 |
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# ? May 11, 2024 16:52 |
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Cythereal posted:Combination of that and, while Togo's victory was undeniably brilliant, the IJN - and the entire Imperial Japanese leadership - took completely the wrong lessons from the war in general and the landmark naval battle in particular. Many of Imperial Japan's problems in WW2 boiled down to them going into the war expecting it to be Russo-Japanese War 2: Pacific Boogaloo. While this is obviously no fault of Togo's and he was genuinely a great admiral, it nevertheless gives me pause considering putting him on a WW2-or-later naval dream team.
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# ? Aug 29, 2016 18:53 |
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my dad posted:Wasn't J.P.J. a pedophile? No
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# ? Aug 29, 2016 18:56 |
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HEY GAL posted:that isn't his fault, any more than gustavus adolphus's success with the frontal assault is responsible for general horn's failure with it two years after he was dead True, though I still prefer Jellicoe as surface commander in this naval wanking for his organizational capabilities, and the fact that the High Seas Fleet that Jellicoe was much better constructed, maintained, trained, and lead than the Second Pacific Fleet that Togo smashed.
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# ? Aug 29, 2016 19:01 |
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i mean, the reason GA doesn't go on my Dream Team is that i'm not sure he knew how to do anything but a frontal assault, although he did do good things with it. what's swedish for "elan"
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# ? Aug 29, 2016 19:03 |
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If "capacity to put up with irritating subordinates/bosses" is a factor to weigh, Jellicoe also deserves a medal for putting up with Beatty and Churchill.
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# ? Aug 29, 2016 19:04 |
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Cythereal posted:If "capacity to put up with irritating subordinates/bosses" is a factor to weigh, Jellicoe also deserves a medal for putting up with Beatty and Churchill.
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# ? Aug 29, 2016 19:06 |
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Give Jellicoe more assertive captains/squadron commanders and he turns Jutland into Trafalgar 2.0.
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# ? Aug 29, 2016 19:06 |
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Cythereal posted:True, though I still prefer Jellicoe as surface commander in this naval wanking for his organizational capabilities, and the fact that the High Seas Fleet that Jellicoe was much better constructed, maintained, trained, and lead than the Second Pacific Fleet that Togo smashed. Perhaps most to Jellicoes credit he recognised that as Churchill put it, he was the man who could lose the war in an afternoon, he knew what he needed to do was above all survive, he didn't try to reenact Nelson and Trafalgar as someone like Beatty would I think have done, he kept the RN edge intact, didn't take unnecessary risks for personal glory and ultimately kept the HSF in harbor and won the naval war.
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# ? Aug 29, 2016 19:07 |
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ALL-PRO SEXMAN posted:Give Jellicoe more assertive captains/squadron commanders and he turns Jutland into Trafalgar 2.0.
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# ? Aug 29, 2016 19:08 |
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Actually, Jellicoe later said that if he'd known he would only get one bite at the High Seas Fleet he would've been way more aggressive.
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# ? Aug 29, 2016 19:08 |
HEY GAL posted:yesssss I feel like you are downplaying Cook, he'd be a great scout and explorer. Hell, he'd almost be a brilliant diplomat if you tell him to not kidnapping as a last resort. He'd be rubbish in a fight, but he could tell you where all the nice places it can go down in and what kind of lime to bring with you.
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# ? Aug 29, 2016 19:09 |
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HEY GAL posted:your dudes routinely fail to close the freaking deal, this is exactly what you said about Medina Sidonia and his lack of willingness to go "fuckit" It's not even going "fuckit" as much as it is "needing to report that you just saw the High Seas Fleet running away across our stern".
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# ? Aug 29, 2016 19:10 |
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ALL-PRO SEXMAN posted:Give Jellicoe more assertive captains/squadron commanders and he turns Jutland into Trafalgar 2.0. Well there was that Beatty guy
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# ? Aug 29, 2016 19:17 |
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Nightmare army features JEB Stuart as the most dashing, gallant chief of Mortuary Affairs that ever was.
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# ? Aug 29, 2016 19:21 |
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cheerfullydrab posted:Nightmare army features JEB Stuart as the most dashing, gallant chief of Mortuary Affairs that ever was. stuart was good, what's this mortuary affairs thing about
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# ? Aug 29, 2016 19:22 |
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Cythereal posted:If "capacity to put up with irritating subordinates/bosses" is a factor to weigh, Jellicoe also deserves a medal for putting up with Beatty and Churchill. What about every German officer under Hitler after Stalingrad? Or Russian officers before Stalingrad?
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# ? Aug 29, 2016 19:23 |
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SeanBeansShako posted:I feel like you are downplaying Cook, he'd be a great scout and explorer. Hell, he'd almost be a brilliant diplomat if you tell him to not kidnapping as a last resort. He'd be rubbish in a fight, but he could tell you where all the nice places it can go down in and what kind of lime to bring with you.
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# ? Aug 29, 2016 19:25 |
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Jobbo_Fett posted:Or Russian officers before Stalingrad? Rokossovosky seriously needs an award for *something*.
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# ? Aug 29, 2016 19:27 |
HEY GAL posted:my point is, an admiral who was deified beats a captain who was deified. like if we're collecting them or something Ask Us About Military History Mk III: TOP TRUMPS EDITION!
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# ? Aug 29, 2016 19:40 |
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So, I tried remembering where I heard this, until I eventually looked it up on Wikipedia (yeah, I know) and there's this passage: quote:In April 1789 Jones was arrested and accused of raping a 12-year-old girl named Katerina Goltzwart. But the Count de Segur, the French representative at the Russian court (and also Jones' last friend in the capital), conducted his own personal investigation into the matter and was able to convince Potëmkin that the girl had not been raped and that Jones had been accused by Prince de Nassau-Siegen for his own purposes; Jones, however, admitted to prosecutors that he had "often frolicked" with the girl "for a small cash payment," only denying that he had deprived her of her virginity. Is this just good old Wikipedia bullshit?
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# ? Aug 29, 2016 19:43 |
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Cythereal posted:For all his faults, Yamamoto was very innovative and is one of the big men to think of for transforming the aircraft carrier from a curiosity into a serious weapon of war. Certainly it took the Americans with their mammoth industrial capacity and vastly superior (and less literally murderous) organization and leadership to fully mature the carrier division into its modern incarnation, but as long as someone's around to rein him in I think Yamamoto is one of the premier guys for carriers in history. Yamamoto also was behind the invention of strategic submarines, which although have not fought in any wars, they are the cornerstone of nuclear deterrence today.
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# ? Aug 29, 2016 19:48 |
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Fangz posted:Rokossovosky seriously needs an award for *something*. Have you ever seen a picture of the guy? His parade uniform was more like scale mail.
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# ? Aug 29, 2016 20:13 |
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SeanBeansShako posted:Ask Us About Military History Mk III: TOP TRUMPS EDITION!
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# ? Aug 29, 2016 20:18 |
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Tevery Best posted:Have you ever seen a picture of the guy? His parade uniform was more like scale mail. Yeah but I bet none of those are for taking an astronomical amount of bullshit in his early career.
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# ? Aug 29, 2016 20:18 |
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HEY GAL posted:i guess the most important milhist guy who also happened to be a god would be Julius Caesar himself Or Alexander the Great.
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# ? Aug 29, 2016 20:25 |
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Tevery Best posted:Have you ever seen a picture of the guy? His parade uniform was more like scale mail. always post a pic
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# ? Aug 29, 2016 20:27 |
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Hunt11 posted:Or Alexander the Great. I'm impressed at Guan Yu's marketing team. Deified for a supporting role on the losing side and he's still going strong today.
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# ? Aug 29, 2016 20:38 |
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P-Mack posted:I'm impressed at Guan Yu's marketing team. Deified for a supporting role on the losing side and he's still going strong today. It's the beard that got deified. Guan Yu is just the human attached to it.
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# ? Aug 29, 2016 20:40 |
HEY GAL posted:the gently caress is wrong with the way Nazis thought about that poo poo, it seems like an entire culture of no-planning bullshit, which Disinterested went into in detail after detail Well there's more ideological closeness to Hitler than people want to admit, then you heap on top lack of knowledge from poor intelligence and then the overwhelming imperative to try to strike a final killing blow as fast as possible, before the winter, and you get an all out banzai charge. They were also all pretty unfamiliar with wars in the east, whether it's Sweden's misadventures, or Napoleon's, or whomever's. They knew much more about wars that had occured in central Europe where the strategic challenges were different, and still retained the obsession with the offensive. Here's a random selection of quotes from my notes on this theme: quote:Logistical adversity rather than taming German impulses in fact encouraged more radical approaches to end the war immediately. It prevented the Germans from caution and consolidation as they developed new offensives constantly in the search of a final blow. quote:Obsession with offensive: ‘the notion of calling a halt ran contrary to everything this officer corps believed: the importance of will and aggression, and especially the importance of finishing a war in a single campaign.’ And not everyone was stupid. Here's Kesselring: quote:‘For this task the panzer groups were too weak. Our strategic mechanised forces had to be proportionate to the depth and breadth of the area to be conquered and to the strength of the enemy, and we had not anywhere near this strength. Our fully tracked vehicles, including tanks, were not adequately serviceable. There were technical limitations to constant movement. A mobile operation in 1,000 km depth through strongly occupied enemy territory requires vast supplies, especially if there is no chance of falling back on large and useful enemy stores. Our lines of communication and our airfields lay mostly in enemy threatened country, and were insufficiently protected.’ But the problem is contempt for Russia, lack of historical framework for understanding previous wars in Russia etc. all result in this kind of thing: quote:General staff’s disparaging attitude to Russia enabled people to gloss over warnings about Russia: Walther memo from German embassy to Moscow said that Soviets would definitely not collapse internally and Ukraine + Baltic states would be a net burden economically. Kostring, the military attache there, warned Halder in Sept. 1940 about the weather and then about the defensive capabilities of the red army, also lack of roads etc.
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# ? Aug 29, 2016 20:55 |
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my dad posted:Is this just good old Wikipedia bullshit? Robert K. Massie (of Castles of Steel fame) mentions the episode in his biography of Catherine the Great. JPJ comes across as sort of a desperate hasbeen pedo in it.
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# ? Aug 29, 2016 20:55 |
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meanwhile, in the saxon army "General-Commissarius Schleinitz wanted to take a horse from a lieutenant who had bought one at the bridges, the lieutenant was not lazy, he drew his pistol and went at him. I mean he let his horse pass him quickly." "Der General-Commissarius Schleinitz wollte eninen Lieutnant sein Pferd, so er an der Brücken erkaufft, auch abnehmen, der Lieutnant nicht faul, er zohe sein Pistol aus undt auff Schleinitzen los. Ich meine er ließ Ihn sein Pferd geschwind paßieren." from the diary of Christian Vizthumb von Eckstedt. (Two of his brothers went to Italy with the Mansfeld Regiment) bet you wish Barthas was able to act like that, huh Trin?
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# ? Aug 29, 2016 21:17 |
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HEY GAL posted:meanwhile, in the saxon army Personally I'd translate his title as Commissary-General.
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# ? Aug 29, 2016 21:21 |
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ALL-PRO SEXMAN posted:A much better historian doubts the story: It should still be noted that even in the version that favors JPJ he's still loving a girl who's either 12 or 14 depending on who you believe. He's main defense seems to have been that he didn't take her virginity. We can talk all a we want about differing standards of sexual maturity. If she was 16 it wouldn't even really be a conversation, but 12-14 is still pretty loving young. That said, it's a bit unfair to say he's a pedophile. A pedophile is someone who preferentially chooses children as sexual partners, and there isn't really any evidence that he was like that. More accurately he paid 12-14 year old for sex, and her contemporaries would have probably accepted that she could make her own decision in the matter. Today he would be in some Catch A Predator grade poo poo, but even people back then seem to have looked askance of it. The scandal wouldn't have had the legs it did otherwise. edit: I mean, his defense is literally "she wasn't a virgin and I didn't force her." Cyrano4747 fucked around with this message at 22:03 on Aug 29, 2016 |
# ? Aug 29, 2016 21:47 |
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Re. the Italian navy in the Mediterranean: I've always felt like they should have absolutely owned that poo poo had they put their minds to it and that would have put a lot of other big operations in question. Also it was a great theater for big gun battleship slugfests and they kind of robbed us of that which I'm a little bit bitter about.
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# ? Aug 29, 2016 21:49 |
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Hogge Wild posted:always post a pic
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# ? Aug 29, 2016 21:58 |
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No Yi Sun-sin on the admiral dream team? :korea:
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# ? Aug 29, 2016 22:07 |
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Cyrano4747 posted:It should still be noted that even in the version that favors JPJ he's still loving a girl who's either 12 or 14 depending on who you believe. He's main defense seems to have been that he didn't take her virginity. that entire incident is loving sleaze as hell
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# ? Aug 29, 2016 22:10 |
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# ? May 11, 2024 16:52 |
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James Garfield posted:No Yi Sun-sin on the admiral dream team? :korea: Is that the dude who surfed a big wooden box around a whirlpool and then blew up Japan? (watch that movie, it's amazing in its ridiculousness)
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# ? Aug 29, 2016 22:10 |