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i placed a radar down forever ago and its only found one other slick in somewhere so extremely far away on the map it would probably be 300 underground pipes to wire it back. that's why i cheated with the one slick i had to make it show 286k/s. you would think that would be enough, but... i think oil was either "high" or "normal", but i can't remember, i made this file like six months ago. is there a lua command to check your seed settings?
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Aug 29, 2016 08:47
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The oil patch is capable of 286 k∕s, but the pump isn’t. Fill it with speed modules, surround it with beacons, or plumb another patch. Those are your options. Oh, and productivity modules in everything downstream helps a little I suppose.
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Aug 29, 2016 08:53
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it has speed module v2's on it. does adding more beacons up the effect forever? i thought beacons were just aoe module slots but they had a cap.
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Aug 29, 2016 09:41
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Suspicious Dish posted:it has speed module v2's on it. does adding more beacons up the effect forever? i thought beacons were just aoe module slots but they had a cap. More beacons around a single building will stack the effect, yes. The only module that has a cap is efficiency. You can shove a dickload of beacons around a single pump. There's a rocket/minute that uses a grid of rocket pads with beacons interspersed throughout.
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Aug 29, 2016 11:39
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FISHMANPET posted:Pumps will become a bottleneck before the actual pipes will: https://forums.factorio.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=6066 Basic refining is worthwhile if you want to have a refinery set aside just for flamer oil. It ends up very convenient (and I'm sure you'll find *something* to do with that pesky extra petroleum...)
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Aug 29, 2016 11:57
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This is probably old hat to everyone here but I've been playing with converting one-tick pulses into longer signals Edit: and here's why GotLag fucked around with this message at 12:25 on Aug 29, 2016 |
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Aug 29, 2016 12:21
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Suspicious Dish posted:it has speed module v2's on it. does adding more beacons up the effect forever? i thought beacons were just aoe module slots but they had a cap. Just go exploring man, you'll find shitloads of oil and stuff out there. 300 underground pipes isn't many at all. If you're that strapped for iron, exploring will help you find new ore deposits as well!
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Aug 29, 2016 13:38
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Suspicious Dish posted:i placed a radar down forever ago and its only found one other slick in somewhere so extremely far away on the map it would probably be 300 underground pipes to wire it back. that's why i cheated with the one slick i had to make it show 286k/s. you would think that would be enough, but... your saved game shows the map exchange string when you go to load it, copy that and paste it in the new game screen and it will show the map settings
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Aug 29, 2016 13:48
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Suspicious Dish posted:There is no backup for light / heavy oil. I guess I'm just not getting enough crude, because not all of my refineries are firing. Which doesn't make sense, because I hacked the drat oil puddle to give me 286k/s. FISHMANPET posted:But just build your oil processing correctly the first time, then you don't have to worry about having too much of something!
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Aug 29, 2016 14:49
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zedprime posted:You need a pump array I bet. Or a single express pump, as that's exactly the situation it was made for.
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Aug 29, 2016 14:53
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 !bienvenidos a mi granja de drogas!
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Aug 29, 2016 14:54
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Super Space Jam 64 posted:Yellow (storage) logisitics chests aren't useless, even if you don't want to use them as a buffer. If you research logistics trash slots, your bots will move stuff you put in your personal trash to storage. When satisfying a logistics request, items in storage are drawn from before items in passive supplier chests, so the stuff you trash is "recycled" with a higher priority than creating new products. So in general, I would say storage chests are for literal trash and in a healthy loginet you can probably just unload them directly into a wooden chest that you come around to shoot once a play session. zedprime fucked around with this message at 15:04 on Aug 29, 2016 |
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Aug 29, 2016 15:02
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Storage chests are mostly a temporary holding spot for stuff you've flagged with the deconstruction planner.
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Aug 29, 2016 15:22
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Look at all these posts. Nothing like Oil chat to get the thread moving  Solumin posted:Right now, mods are basically advertised by word of mouth. It would be cool if there was a website that helped you pick mods, like "if you want this, then get this." For example, if you want a slower game and an excuse to use trains, get RSO. If you want more control over pipes and recipes that use liquids, check out Flow Control and GDIW. The current behaviour has been cited as a bug which will be corrected in the next release, ie 0.14.2. The dependencies and version checking isn't being done correctly resulting in mods being marked as incompatible when they shouldn't. It's not quite clear from the dev response whether he thinks a mod which simply has version set to >= 0.13 should load in 0.14 but I reckon we'll see sometime today or tomorrow. There are enough fixed items that I'd expect 0.14.2 to release soon. Then we can get on with testing MP games in 0.14 without waiting on all the mods to be updated. Most of which are simply unpacking the mod, changing 13 to 14 and repacking it.
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Aug 29, 2016 15:32
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Baloogan posted:
Nice grow op bro
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Aug 29, 2016 15:55
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Did the stone rocks get renamed in some patch? I'm trying to do a mass destroy command, but it either isn't recognizing, or not caring about "stone-rock". The same command worked perfectly fine for "tree"
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Aug 29, 2016 15:58
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/c game.player.print(game.player.selected.name) That should tell you. Edit: "tree" is a broad type of entity, "stone-rock" is a specific name. So whatever command you're using will be looking for type="tree", you'll want name="stone-rock" GotLag fucked around with this message at 16:17 on Aug 29, 2016 |
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Aug 29, 2016 16:15
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GotLag posted:/c game.player.print(game.player.selected.name) Yeeeeeeep, that was it. I was just about to edit my post that I noticed "type" rather than "name" /c local surface = game.player.surface for c in surface.get_chunks() do for key, entity in pairs(surface.find_entities_filtered({area={{c.x * 32, c.y * 32}, {c.x * 32 + 32, c.y * 32 + 32}}, type= "stone-rock"})) do entity.destroy() end end Worked perfectly and killed all rocks in mapped chunks after changing to this /c local surface = game.player.surface for c in surface.get_chunks() do for key, entity in pairs(surface.find_entities_filtered({area={{c.x * 32, c.y * 32}, {c.x * 32 + 32, c.y * 32 + 32}}, name= "stone-rock"})) do entity.destroy() end end
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Aug 29, 2016 16:31
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Note that you can just leave off the area and it will search the entire surface. http://lua-api.factorio.com/0.14.1/LuaSurface.html#LuaSurface.find_entities_filtered
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Aug 29, 2016 16:46
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Suspicious Dish posted:i placed a radar down forever ago and its only found one other slick in somewhere so extremely far away on the map it would probably be 300 underground pipes to wire it back. that's why i cheated with the one slick i had to make it show 286k/s. you would think that would be enough, but... So, with the patch set to 286k (that would be a yield of 28,600,000% right?) the pumpjack is going to try and spit out 286k oil for every pump. Those few pipes can't fit anywhere near that much oil, could that be causing the problem? I've never messed around with oil like that. zedprime posted:You've just got your wide spots in different places, lube and solid fuel are the important pivot points. I like the wide spots as petro/light/heavy tanks because it lets me set up the circuits that crack based on inventory or else I end up dead heading on petro because I'm not keeping track of when my refinery and red circuit industry is mature enough to start the solid fuel. That's really only important very early on where I often forego solid fuel production unless my plastic supplies are already choked. Once you get into launch all the rockets stage, you can just ratio it out in a way that feeds your fuel and plastic plants because lube is just a trickle at that point, but the buffer tanks are probably good training wheels and its not like storage tanks are expensive. A trickle of lube? Not when I build expansions that require 4.6k blue belts. zedprime posted:This reply is old enough for a 5 oclock shadow but I wanted to test the behavior before I made a fool of myself. Your trash slot acts like an other active provider in that the loginet will prefer taking it to a requester. If your requesters are full, storage is a necessary overflow I guess but that shows more is wrong with the way the requester's contents are being used. If you do anything with construction bots, including building, storage chests become massively useful. I've got a field of 100 storage chests, and they've got handfuls of various building materials in them. If a logistic bot grabs something to bring to you and you go out of logistics range, it will take it to a storage chest. If you deconstruct something and you don't have a requestor chest for the item (why would you have a chest requesting something like splitters or underground belts?) it will go to storage. If you take 1000 red belts with you to an outpost, and only use 750, and throw 200 into your junk slots when you get back, they'll go into storage chests. They'll all get used eventually, they just need a place to be stored.
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Aug 29, 2016 17:46
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Zetsubou-san posted:your saved game shows the map exchange string when you go to load it, copy that and paste it in the new game screen and it will show the map settings normal / medium / good zedprime posted:You need a pump array I bet. Please excuse the thread if we aren't used to point sources of oil, its not the usual case. FISHMANPET posted:So, with the patch set to 286k (that would be a yield of 28,600,000% right?) the pumpjack is going to try and spit out 286k oil for every pump. Those few pipes can't fit anywhere near that much oil, could that be causing the problem? I've never messed around with oil like that. OK. So this is what I was wondering. How does flow of connected pipes work? If I have this setup:  Flow is well-defined and liquid will take 8 tiles to reach their destination. If I do this:  Will liquid take 8 tiles or 15 tiles? Does it take the shortest path or the longest path? Does it split equally? Can pipes carry liquid both ways, and if not, which direction will the liquid flow? Is pressure simulated? What do small pumps do? Do they just change the speed? Direction? How do the parallel pump arrays help things?
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Aug 29, 2016 17:57
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FISHMANPET posted:A trickle of lube? Not when I build expansions that require 4.6k blue belts. FISHMANPET posted:If you do anything with construction bots, including building, storage chests become massively useful. I've got a field of 100 storage chests, and they've got handfuls of various building materials in them. If a logistic bot grabs something to bring to you and you go out of logistics range, it will take it to a storage chest. If you deconstruct something and you don't have a requestor chest for the item (why would you have a chest requesting something like splitters or underground belts?) it will go to storage. If you take 1000 red belts with you to an outpost, and only use 750, and throw 200 into your junk slots when you get back, they'll go into storage chests. They'll all get used eventually, they just need a place to be stored. The requester chest that requests something like splitters or underground belts or construction stuff is the player logistics slots in case of state of the art, or else you have a requester chest that is used as feedstock for the next tier. There's nothing really wrong with a field of storage chests besides trying to make the idealogically least wasteful factory, because storage chests encourage a waste of logibot movement. When you have tens of thousands of them wasting logistics bot movement is not important but its still fundamentally a waste of movement. They way I play I've just never seen something go into a storage chest that I'd ever want to see again and if it does its because I had something specified wrong in my logistics slots or in feedstock chests.
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Aug 29, 2016 18:00
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Per the Factorio wiki, pumpjacks are limited to a maximum of 10 oil per cycle. Doesn't matter how much Suspicious Dish cheats that oil patch if he's limited by pumpjack speed. He just needs to find and connect some more oil patches. Also, if he just has pipes between the pumpjack and refineries, pipe throughput should not be an issue considering the distance shown in that screenshot.quote:Hey, Suspicious Dish, could you mouseover the pumpjack and post a screenshot of its oil output? And could you upload that map to dropbox or similar so I could poke around it? Thanks in advance. Ambaire fucked around with this message at 18:16 on Aug 29, 2016 |
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Aug 29, 2016 18:12
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Ambaire posted:Per the Factorio wiki, pumpjacks are limited to a maximum of 10 oil per cycle. Doesn't matter how much Suspicious Dish cheats that oil patch if he's limited by pumpjack speed. He just needs to find and connect some more oil patches. Also, if he just has pipes between the pumpjack and refineries, pipe throughput should not be an issue considering the distance shown in that screenshot. Sticking one pump at the throat of the pumpjack in an infinite oil point source should supply 5 refineries in that set up or else we found a really cool edge case in the fluid systems.
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Aug 29, 2016 18:17
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Ambaire posted:Per the Factorio wiki, pumpjacks are limited to a maximum of 10 oil per cycle. Doesn't matter how much Suspicious Dish cheats that oil patch if he's limited by pumpjack speed. He just needs to find and connect some more oil patches. Also, if he just has pipes between the pumpjack and refineries, pipe throughput should not be an issue considering the distance shown in that screenshot. I got your PM. I'll do this when I get home from work today. zedprime posted:Sticking one pump at the throat of the pumpjack in an infinite oil point source should supply 5 refineries in that set up or else we found a really cool edge case in the fluid systems. There are now 9 refineries on my map after someone told me to "make more". Suspicious Dish fucked around with this message at 18:33 on Aug 29, 2016 |
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Aug 29, 2016 18:27
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While I'm thinking about ratios, 5 refineries on basic processing will only supply 1 plastic plant with a little (0.25) dribble of extra petro. So you might also check if you just have fractions of petro in your plastic factories, or fractions of crude in the extra refineries. There is a pressure simulation based on levels and distance, but the end result because of the level dependence is most often filling parallel things up equally which can be an issue if you build too many fluid processing buildings. That actually seems more likely than the pump thing as the math pans out and that screenshot has more refinery active flames than not.
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Aug 29, 2016 18:42
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Is there a correct ratio of cracking plants per advanced refinery, or is it something I have to play by ear? (Assuming I don't need lube, for the nonce, and I haven't ever gotten to the point in the game where I need solid fuel) (edit) Nevermind, googling found part of the answer. quote:Assuming advanced oil and no other outputs wanted, 5 refineries, 1 heavy to light cracking, 7 light to petroleum. I believe 1 water pump can supply 2 of those setups. Ciaphas fucked around with this message at 19:02 on Aug 29, 2016 |
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Aug 29, 2016 18:59
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You'll need solid fuel to launch rockets. Somewhere I did the math to get everything perfect and then I stuck productivity modules in everything and it ruined all my math. So now I just chunk on 20 of whatever to process a backup.
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Aug 29, 2016 19:02
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Baloogan posted:
what is that mod and what gameplay mechanics does it add?
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Aug 29, 2016 19:02
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zedprime posted:While I'm thinking about ratios, 5 refineries on basic processing will only supply 1 plastic plant with a little (0.25) dribble of extra petro. So you might also check if you just have fractions of petro in your plastic factories, or fractions of crude in the extra refineries. Have you got a dev quote for that? As far as I've seen, fluid just moves from fuller to emptier until it balances out. That's why pipes never really empty and why hooking up pumpjacks fills the pipe first then starts into the tanks/refineries. If you've seen something official about simulated pressure I'd love to see it. Pumps can almost empty a set of pipes but there's always some residue. Anyone who's tried to clear water from a wrongly plumbed oil pipe knows that. The natural flow speed of fluids is 30/s I think, 60/s from an offshore pump. Then there's the set of speeds for various parallel pumps that everyone's seen https://forums.factorio.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=6066
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Aug 29, 2016 19:05
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Loopoo posted:what is that mod and what gameplay mechanics does it add? Probably produces wood for bob's mods since bob requires wood backboards to make circuits Ratzap posted:Anyone who's tried to clear water from a wrongly plumbed oil pipe knows that. Easiest way to get water out of an oil pipeline is just connect a boiler to the pipe
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Aug 29, 2016 19:06
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Azhais posted:Probably produces wood for bob's mods since bob requires wood backboards to make circuits This is true but it's not an obvious solution, most people will have tried to pump thing empty at some point. It's a wood farm for bobs yes, the greenhouse graphic he started using is pretty nice and lights up when it's active. He'll find out later that he needs to get fertilizer in there too when it's researched.
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Aug 29, 2016 19:25
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Baloogan posted:
 Link me to the mod. I want to make a cocaine factory and then sell it to the biters.
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Aug 29, 2016 19:36
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Ratzap posted:Have you got a dev quote for that? As far as I've seen, fluid just moves from fuller to emptier until it balances out. That's why pipes never really empty and why hooking up pumpjacks fills the pipe first then starts into the tanks/refineries. If you've seen something official about simulated pressure I'd love to see it.
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Aug 29, 2016 19:36
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Ratzap posted:This is true but it's not an obvious solution, most people will have tried to pump thing empty at some point. It's a wood farm for bobs yes, the greenhouse graphic he started using is pretty nice and lights up when it's active. He'll find out later that he needs to get fertilizer in there too when it's researched. Although he'll only need fertilizer if he wants to bother with the advanced wood farming.
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Aug 29, 2016 19:46
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GotLag posted:Note that you can just leave off the area and it will search the entire surface. Isn't that what that command is doing? I didn't run into any trees or rocks again until I loaded in new chunks?
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Aug 29, 2016 19:59
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Basically fluid flow rate from one pipe (or anything liquid holding, I will start calling them elements from here) to another is (La-Lb)*S-R, where La is relative level in the first element Lb is relative level in the second element S is the proportional speed per level unit R is flow resistance. The resistance itself seems fairly complicated (La*{some factor of S and R^n? level in the n-1 element should be proportional to S and R}-Lb)*S*R^n Where the new term n is the number of pipes in the way. Someone more intrepid than myself could calculate S and R, and I think I remember seeing a more detailed effort post doing exactly that on the Factorio forums, but I doubt I'd be able to find it again. The general gist is speed is ultimately driven by differences in level which are inherent to the system because of the decaying of speed over distance by iterative decays to the potential speed, to keep it from just logjamming up with the same level everywhere. The decay, besides making a neat gameplay feature, puts a bit of directionality to it so things don't go around in circles if you give them the option. I assume the generation sources mimic pressure by creating (up to) 10 units of oil or 60 units of water /s in the adjacent pipe per production cycle, and then the flow is bootstrapped from there, element to element. At splits, the split is proportional to the level at each branch. With equal level on either side it will split in half which leads to filling branches up equally until it runs into an ending or whatnot and backfills or empties out. This makes a bit of a tricky situation where depending on pipe network design, you can end up with a bunch of facilities half full fighting over scraps. In a starved situation, the facility nearest in terms of elements will get 1/2. The next nearest will then get 1/4, then 1/8 and so on. Depending on the relative starvedness, it might not make it to the end of the line, but your first in line only getting half is a pretty big deal in itself. If it can reach the furthest away without starving the junctions, common sense kicks in again: the nearest consumer will consume faster proportional to the number of pipes between it and the source. Refineries and chem plants and tanks have an actual level. Steam engines can suck up stuff so well because their black hole has an always 0 level but consume up to 6 units/s. Pumps work the same way the inlet is functionally 0 level, and the throat passes whatever is coming by up to 30units/s forward into the next element. I expect the steam engine trick is great because it can annihilate liquid; if you deadhead a pump the level dynamics will backfill the pipes behind it equally and you are at the mercy of the speed at which 0.00001 (or however insignificant) level difference fluid moves on its own accord. I call this a pressure simulation, because level is a measure of pressure. The fluid dynamics in game are then an incredibly simple but effective finite element analysis based on element pressure or specified flow. Being an FEA, the easiest way to see if something in anything more complicated than a straight line works is to just try it because the computer will figure it out well before you do on paper. e. Wait no the actual exponential decay. Its been entirely too long since I took a math class. If I figure it out I'll fix it, most of this follows from whats in my head instead of the wrong equations I specified. e2. Scaled back the scope a bit, the resistance is probably the most complicated factor and what leads to the sort of momentum you see in starved situations, where a slug of a dribble of liquid can still find its way forward to somewhere at least. zedprime fucked around with this message at 21:03 on Aug 29, 2016 |
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Aug 29, 2016 20:44
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What do you all consider worth putting on a main bus besides iron and copper plates? I'm thinking green circuits, but what else? And what about fluids?
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Aug 29, 2016 21:11
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Ambaire posted:Although he'll only need fertilizer if he wants to bother with the advanced wood farming. Depends if he needs the extra wood or wants to run with a smaller more efficient farm. zedprime posted:Stuff Do you have a source for that or is this supposition from observation or what you think describes what is going on. The closest thing on the factorio forums is https://forums.factorio.com/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=19851&p=199532 It seems a decent match of observation to theory but an actual statement by the devs describing what the game actually does would be best.
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Aug 29, 2016 21:19
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Ciaphas posted:What do you all consider worth putting on a main bus besides iron and copper plates? I'm thinking green circuits, but what else? And what about fluids? In a stock game, bus everything really, there isn't that much to worry about. Iron, copper, steel, green circuits, iron wheels maybe for a portion.
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Aug 29, 2016 21:21
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