Factorio: Captain Planet doesn't stand a chance.

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Factorio: Captain Planet doesn't stand a chance.

zedprime: Jun 9, 2007; yospos

Ratzap posted:

Do you have a source for that or is this supposition from observation or what you think describes what is going on. The closest thing on the factorio forums is

https://forums.factorio.com/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=19851&p=199532

It seems a decent match of observation to theory but an actual statement by the devs describing what the game actually does would be best.

My source is "hey I think I've seen this before when we did FEA tutorials in fluid dynamics and circuits classes." So that makes it supposition, but its kind of the stock simulation for simple fluid dynamics pared down so it doesn't need to use all the CPU while the game is trying to play itself.

# ? Aug 29, 2016 21:26

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# ? May 11, 2024 14:25

Solumin: Jan 11, 2013

Ciaphas posted:

What do you all consider worth putting on a main bus besides iron and copper plates? I'm thinking green circuits, but what else? And what about fluids?

Green circuits and steel. Things like copper cable and (imo) iron gears should be produced locally. Since underground pipes have such a long range, I usually have fluids parallel to the bus but well outside the factory.

Even steel is questionable -- you could argue having a small area where all the steel-consuming factories reside. The main reason to bus anything is if it requires a large footprint to produce (e.g. 5 factories for fully efficient green circuits, large forge areas for plates and steel) and is in high demand. But I'm only deriving that criteria from factories I've built, it's not a hard-and-fast rule. (And I expect zedprime to have some interesting insight that completely contradicts what I'm saying

)

# ? Aug 29, 2016 21:44

Truga: May 4, 2014; Lipstick Apathy

I always bus my iron wheels. Some thing need lots, and it's much more compressed than iron plates.

# ? Aug 29, 2016 21:52

Baloogan: Dec 5, 2004; Fun Shoe

Loopoo posted:

what is that mod and what gameplay mechanics does it add?

bobs um greenhouses or something, grows trees man

smoke trees every day 420

factorissimo for the mini pocket factory which I love holy poo poo

*GLORIOUS ORGANIZATION*

I LIKE TO SMOKE WEE posted:

Link me to the mod. I want to make a cocaine factory and then sell it to the biters.

factorissimo and bobs greenhouses

id make a mod pack but im on metered internets

# ? Aug 29, 2016 22:04

Platystemon: Feb 13, 2012; BREADS

Baloogan posted:

Factorissimo allows reverse flow of electricity now?

# ? Aug 29, 2016 22:20

Dirk the Average: Feb 7, 2012; "This may have been a mistake."

Platystemon posted:

Factorissimo allows reverse flow of electricity now?

Only in designated power plant buildings. The buildings are dark, so solar panels don't work.

Power plants also cost 100 copper plates more than a standard factory.

# ? Aug 29, 2016 22:31

Ciaphas: Nov 20, 2005; > BEWARE, COWARD

I think instead of starting over entirely I want to either deconstruct my entire current factory or go rebuild somewhere else. Not sure how to go about this, though. I know construction drones would be a huge help, but I just barely have blue science packs automated, let alone being able to build drones.

Advice? Start over or deconstruct?

# ? Aug 29, 2016 22:33

Truga: May 4, 2014; Lipstick Apathy

Neither. Leave the factory be, start again somewhere else. This world is yours.

# ? Aug 29, 2016 22:40

Sage Grimm: Feb 18, 2013; Let's go explorin' little dude!

Rebuild somewhere else. That way if you do bottleneck on something at your current factory you have your old crazily-inefficient-but-working-damnit one that you can rely on for supply.

# ? Aug 29, 2016 22:40

Ciaphas: Nov 20, 2005; > BEWARE, COWARD

Good points! I'll load up on iron, copper, and shotgun shells, and go forth on a journey to a new home

... of course I made the mistake of running RSO so finding a place in reasonable range of resources might be unpleasant. Maybe I should work on train infrastructure at my current spot first, I've literally never touched trains

# ? Aug 29, 2016 22:42

KillHour: Oct 28, 2007

On the plus side, if you do find a spot with all the resources, there will be a ton of them.

# ? Aug 29, 2016 22:45

GotLag: Jul 17, 2005; 食べちゃダメだよ

Slickdrac posted:

Isn't that what that command is doing? I didn't run into any trees or rocks again until I loaded in new chunks?

It's doing unnecessary iteration over chunks and searching each chunk. This is much simpler and does the job:

code:

/c for _,entity in pairs(game.player.surface.find_entities_filtered{name="stone-rock"}) do entity.destroy() end

# ? Aug 29, 2016 23:50

Ciaphas: Nov 20, 2005; > BEWARE, COWARD

Speaking of trains (and I fully realize this one doesn't matter) do you all prefer smelting on site or carting the ores back to your main factory for smelting?

# ? Aug 30, 2016 00:03

Azhais: Feb 5, 2007; Switchblade Switcharoo

Ciaphas posted:

Speaking of trains (and I fully realize this one doesn't matter) do you all prefer smelting on site or carting the ores back to your main factory for smelting?

I have central smelting back at base and just drag ore around

# ? Aug 30, 2016 00:04

Ratzap: Jun 9, 2012; Let no pie go wasted; Soiled Meat

Ciaphas posted:

Speaking of trains (and I fully realize this one doesn't matter) do you all prefer smelting on site or carting the ores back to your main factory for smelting?

Yeah use what you've got to make stuff to build a new factory in a place of your choosing. Personally I'm a 'ship ore to be smelted' person. Railhead dumps into the smelter blocks which feeds into the factory.

zedprime posted:

My source is "hey I think I've seen this before when we did FEA tutorials in fluid dynamics and circuits classes." So that makes it supposition, but its kind of the stock simulation for simple fluid dynamics pared down so it doesn't need to use all the CPU while the game is trying to play itself.

Which is fine and may be close to what's going on. I posted a suggestion for a Friday facts for the devs to explain the fuild model and talk about the up and coming fluid stuff in 0.15. They've taken time to explain in detail how they implemented belts so with luck they'll do the same for fluids.

# ? Aug 30, 2016 00:08

Qubee: May 31, 2013

Ciaphas posted:

Good points! I'll load up on iron, copper, and shotgun shells, and go forth on a journey to a new home

... of course I made the mistake of running RSO so finding a place in reasonable range of resources might be unpleasant. Maybe I should work on train infrastructure at my current spot first, I've literally never touched trains

Playing RSO without having touched trains??? Are you crazy? RSO is a mod with the core mechanic being rail infrastructure.

90% of the fun with RSO is building awesomely huge railway networks that ship things minutes-away by train all the way to your central base. Feels so good.

# ? Aug 30, 2016 00:30

Solumin: Jan 11, 2013

Ciaphas posted:

Speaking of trains (and I fully realize this one doesn't matter) do you all prefer smelting on site or carting the ores back to your main factory for smelting?

Ore stacks to 50, plates stack to 100. You can fit twice as much product in a cargo wagon if you turn it into plates first. The disadvantage is having to set up furnaces at each site, of course.

# ? Aug 30, 2016 00:31

DontMockMySmock: Aug 9, 2008; I got this title for the dumbest fucking possible take on sea shanties. Specifically, I derailed the meme thread because sailors in the 18th century weren't woke enough for me, and you shouldn't sing sea shanties. In fact, don't have any fun ever.

So, it always seems like y'all explore/expand a LOT to build outposts connected by trains, and when I try to do that, I have to fight a million biter nests. Do I need to be polluting less? Do I need to be fighting better (I mostly use the power-poles-and-laser-turrets method)? Should I carve out a long line through the biters and use radars to find good resource patches off to the sides? Do I need to expand faster, so chunks are generated faster than biter nests spawn (is this a thing?)?

I've never done anything with trains because my bases so far have been small enough that it's pretty manageable with belts and exoskeletons.

# ? Aug 30, 2016 00:41

Ratzap: Jun 9, 2012; Let no pie go wasted; Soiled Meat

Loopoo posted:

Playing RSO without having touched trains??? Are you crazy? RSO is a mod with the core mechanic being rail infrastructure.

90% of the fun with RSO is building awesomely huge railway networks that ship things minutes-away by train all the way to your central base. Feels so good.

RSO and no trains means you set it up wrong :colbert:

This mod came out today and I'm going to have to try it. It's super cute in a "damnit, I can't wait till green science for trains" way.

https://mods.factorio.com/mods/goldsword44/JunkTrain

# ? Aug 30, 2016 00:47

Ciaphas: Nov 20, 2005; > BEWARE, COWARD

Loopoo posted:

Playing RSO without having touched trains??? Are you crazy? RSO is a mod with the core mechanic being rail infrastructure.

90% of the fun with RSO is building awesomely huge railway networks that ship things minutes-away by train all the way to your central base. Feels so good.

Yeah, that was why I installed RSO, because I knew without it I'd never get around to trying trains. I just hadn't gotten around to it by the time I realized my current base is a pile of garbage :v:

Said base will probably just become my first mining train station once I've sufficiently moved shop. I'll probably just turn all the factories there into Rail And Stuff manufacturing in the meantime, like just junk the research factories and labs.

Ciaphas fucked around with this message at 00:51 on Aug 30, 2016

# ? Aug 30, 2016 00:48

zedprime: Jun 9, 2007; yospos

DontMockMySmock posted:

So, it always seems like y'all explore/expand a LOT to build outposts connected by trains, and when I try to do that, I have to fight a million biter nests. Do I need to be polluting less? Do I need to be fighting better (I mostly use the power-poles-and-laser-turrets method)? Should I carve out a long line through the biters and use radars to find good resource patches off to the sides? Do I need to expand faster, so chunks are generated faster than biter nests spawn (is this a thing?)?

I've never done anything with trains because my bases so far have been small enough that it's pretty manageable with belts and exoskeletons.

Last I futzed with it, RSO's default biter settings makes nests scarcer. Its not just the resources that people pick it up for.

Otherwise take your pick of killdozer tank, flamethrower, or capsule god to kill all the biter nests you gaze upon. But vanilla is pretty compact in that you probably have enough resources to launch a rocket or two in belting distance. By the time you are training stuff around in vanilla for super factories, you've got enough flamethrower fuel or capsules that even the biter spawns with like 100 large worms are a speed bump.

# ? Aug 30, 2016 00:52

Qubee: May 31, 2013

I've not really had problems with biters in RSO. They're so far away that pollution barely touches them, and then they only attack in small waves.

In vanilla, they were way more annoying to deal with. It went through the stages of: challenging and fun, not so challenging but still fun, downright irritating. The more advanced I became, the less fun it was dealing with biters because it was just irritating setting up defenses. Every outpost would have to have regularly shipped ammo supplies and I'd have to set up loads of turrets and thick walls to deal with biter attacks.

RSO, I still do the same, but it's more forgiving. Meaning I get to gently caress about doing what I want instead of rushing around the entire map dealing with biter hordes that are tearing my poo poo up.

# ? Aug 30, 2016 00:57

Ciaphas: Nov 20, 2005; > BEWARE, COWARD

I just play on peaceful because I 100% Cannot Be Assed to care about combat in this game :shrug:

# ? Aug 30, 2016 01:01

Baloogan: Dec 5, 2004; Fun Shoe

uh, new base... and I can't find any fuckin coal :coal:

time to try this nuclear power mod :mrwhite:

# ? Aug 30, 2016 01:48

Ratzap: Jun 9, 2012; Let no pie go wasted; Soiled Meat

Baloogan posted:

uh, new base... and I can't find any fuckin coal

time to try this nuclear power mod

Which one? Nuclear by fatmice doesn't actually comsume fuel and Nucular while ok only produces 10MW per plant and oddly eats iron like crazy (the fuel rods are steel encased and you end up feeding it a lot of iron).

# ? Aug 30, 2016 01:56

Baloogan: Dec 5, 2004; Fun Shoe

Nucular, eats iron? drat.

# ? Aug 30, 2016 02:02

CanOfMDAmp: Nov 15, 2006; Now remember kids, no running, no diving, and no salt on my margaritas.

I'm already almost 50 hours into this map and I've realized that I want RSO again. How stark is the contrast in generation if I were to add it in mid-map?

# ? Aug 30, 2016 04:17

Baloogan: Dec 5, 2004; Fun Shoe

UNF factissimo is excellent. SPACE CONSTRAINTS YES!!fuckin all inputs outputs used!!

# ? Aug 30, 2016 04:44

Loren1350: Mar 30, 2007

Ratzap posted:

Do you have a source for that or is this supposition from observation or what you think describes what is going on. The closest thing on the factorio forums is

https://forums.factorio.com/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=19851&p=199532

It seems a decent match of observation to theory but an actual statement by the devs describing what the game actually does would be best.

code:

  const FluidPrototype* fluidPrototype = this->hasFluid() ? this->fluid.getPrototype() : connection.target->fluid.getPrototype();
  double columnDiff = connection.target->calcFluidColumn() - this->calcFluidColumn();
  double speed = columnDiff * fluidPrototype->pressureToSpeedRatio + connection.flowEnergy - opposite

This snippet is from at least a year ago but explains why they want to rewrite. I don't have more context (flowEnergy, opposite) but it seems pretty clear that Zed's explanation is at least very close.

# ? Aug 30, 2016 05:20

Telarra: Oct 9, 2012

CanOfMDAmp posted:

I'm already almost 50 hours into this map and I've realized that I want RSO again. How stark is the contrast in generation if I were to add it in mid-map?

/c remote.call('RSO', 'regenerate') will regenerate the resources map-wide to fix any discrepancies.

# ? Aug 30, 2016 06:01

Ciaphas: Nov 20, 2005; > BEWARE, COWARD

It might just be because it's late but I'm not understanding how to read Factoratio's output. How do I use it to figure out, for example, how many iron gear factories I need to make an assembler 1 factory? An assembler 2 factory? etc.

# ? Aug 30, 2016 06:40

Unreal_One: Aug 18, 2010; Now you know how I don't like to use the sit-down gun, but this morning we just don't have time for mucking about.

Your input has to be the item, how many, and per second/minute/hour.

For instance, set it to 90 electronic circuits per minute.
It'll show you need: 1 assembling machine 2, making the circuits, fed by 3 steel furnaces and 3 electric drills on iron, and 1 assembling machine 3 for copper cable fed by 4 furnaces and 5 drills

# ? Aug 30, 2016 07:03

Suspicious Dish: Sep 24, 2011; 2020 is the year of linux on the desktop, bro; Fun Shoe

For people that were asking for my save file:

https://r.kyaa.sg/jzntbj.zip

# ? Aug 30, 2016 07:40

Ciaphas: Nov 20, 2005; > BEWARE, COWARD

Got it, thanks. I was trying to figure out how to read it as "what do I need to provide for input to fully utilize one assembler" rather than units per time. Made sense once I set the desired output per unit time to be equal to what a given assembler can do.

# ? Aug 30, 2016 07:41

Zetsubou-san: Jan 28, 2015; Cruel Bifaunidas demanded that you [stand]🧍 I require only that you [kneel]🧎

DontMockMySmock posted:

So, it always seems like y'all explore/expand a LOT to build outposts connected by trains, and when I try to do that, I have to fight a million biter nests. Do I need to be polluting less? Do I need to be fighting better (I mostly use the power-poles-and-laser-turrets method)? Should I carve out a long line through the biters and use radars to find good resource patches off to the sides? Do I need to expand faster, so chunks are generated faster than biter nests spawn (is this a thing?)?

I've never done anything with trains because my bases so far have been small enough that it's pretty manageable with belts and exoskeletons.

you need to be using the power-armor-and-flamethrower method

# ? Aug 30, 2016 12:42

GenericOverusedName: Nov 24, 2009; KUVA TEAM EPIC

Biters will recolonize back in after you kill them off, unless you set up a lil outpost there. They actually send groups of biters to go form new nests, so if you set up say a sort of laser fence around the border of what you wanna keep biter-free the expansion parties should get pew pew'd.

Also I am a fan of the fuckton of cluster grenades method, personally.

# ? Aug 30, 2016 12:47

DontMockMySmock: Aug 9, 2008; I got this title for the dumbest fucking possible take on sea shanties. Specifically, I derailed the meme thread because sailors in the 18th century weren't woke enough for me, and you shouldn't sing sea shanties. In fact, don't have any fun ever.

Zetsubou-san posted:

you need to be using the power-armor-and-flamethrower method

I've been avoiding fire because trees reduce pollution. Maybe I should stop caring?

# ? Aug 30, 2016 16:42

LonsomeSon: Nov 22, 2009; A fishperson in an intimidating hat!

DontMockMySmock posted:

I've been avoiding fire because trees reduce pollution. Maybe I should stop caring?

Correct, your goal should be to produce the maximum possible amount of pollution while gradually resurfacing the entire planet with concrete.

# ? Aug 30, 2016 16:53

zedprime: Jun 9, 2007; yospos

Suspicious Dish posted:

For people that were asking for my save file:

https://r.kyaa.sg/jzntbj.zip

OK, yeah, I think this was a ratio issue the whole time.

10 oil/s max from a pumpjack checks out. Speed 2 makes that 16 crude/s.

16 crude/s corresponds to 8 refineries, no modules. That checks out rejiggering your set up around.

8 refineries on basic processing corresponds to 1.7 chem plants running plastic bars. Seems to check out as well paring your set up down.

So to expand plastic production you have a few basic options:
Speed module 3s in the pump jack
Find more places for pumpjacks
Run advanced oil processing

# ? Aug 30, 2016 16:53

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# ? May 11, 2024 14:25

Ambaire: Sep 4, 2009; by Shine; Oven Wrangler

Suspicious Dish posted:

For people that were asking for my save file:

https://r.kyaa.sg/jzntbj.zip

Thanks, I figured out the problem. You didn't mention you put speed module 2's in the refineries as well. Upgrade the pump to mk3 speed modules or put productivity modules in the refineries. The ratio is 1 pump at 10/cycle per 5 refineries assuming both are the same speed, so the refineries are starved for oil. I separated the refineries into two groups of 4 and 5 and made the pump output directly into a tank with pumps on either side of it feeding the two groups.

e.
Also, I took a look at your map and you have oil closer than you thought. A LOT of oil. 5 to the northwest and 2 to the southeast.

Ambaire fucked around with this message at 17:05 on Aug 30, 2016

# ? Aug 30, 2016 17:00

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