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So they're going to reverse engineer a CF6-50, make an indigenous copy, and call it a Chinese engine?
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Aug 29, 2016 17:54
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Having flashbacks to Chinese car crash tests, and cannot wait to see their home made jet engine.
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Aug 29, 2016 17:56
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There's gonna be a lot of new material for this thread soon I guess. Just hope it doesn't involve people dying.
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Aug 29, 2016 17:57
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kastein posted:There's gonna be a lot of new material for this thread soon I guess. Just hope it doesn't involve people dying. To be fair, most Chinese made Jets and Cars do not meet the standards required for US or even EU sales. So outside of sales to Chinese allies, I don't think we'll see many of them.
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Aug 29, 2016 17:59
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CommieGIR posted:Having flashbacks to Chinese car crash tests, and cannot wait to see their home made jet engine. If Chinese planes were used on 9/11, the planes would have just disintegrated with no visible damage to the buildings.
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Aug 29, 2016 18:00
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um excuse me posted:Oh god. As someone that works with engineering on jet engine design and testing I can tell you that even the big players in the business are only starting to understand some of the ways metallurgy performs under the conditions you find in jet engines. Like, we figured out something new the other week that effects nearly every jet engine made since the 80s. The Chinese don't know any of this yet. That's scary. 
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Aug 29, 2016 18:09
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I'm gonna start plugging bad data for the F35 in compromising locations to gently caress with the Chinese.
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Aug 29, 2016 18:26
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BraveUlysses posted:Don't worry they're busy hacking their way into your systems right now TOO LATE THEY ALREADY HACKED THE GIBSON. But, yeah, this is going to be interesting.
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Aug 29, 2016 18:28
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um excuse me posted:I'm gonna start plugging bad data for the F35 in compromising locations to gently caress with the Chinese.
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Aug 29, 2016 18:30
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um excuse me posted:I'm gonna start plugging bad data for the F35 in compromising locations to gently caress with the Chinese. The entire f35 program is just a honeypot.
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Aug 29, 2016 18:43
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SDI part 2.
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Aug 29, 2016 18:54
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i think commercial aircraft components have to adhere to international standards so chinese made engines will have to pass all the same tests any other manufacturer's
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Aug 29, 2016 19:11
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Sure the roads are lovely, but they're not the failure in this case... Comments range from get airbags to get 35k springs.
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Aug 29, 2016 19:14
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Boogalo posted:Sure the roads are lovely, but they're not the failure in this case... Its almost as if those automotive engineers thought of that when they made the suspension or something...
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Aug 29, 2016 19:17
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Yeah, if only someone had built the car with more suspension uptravel and further, designed it so that the wheel and tire could not strike the bodywork or any other chassis components at any point in its travel until the bumpstops were fully compressed.
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Aug 29, 2016 19:21
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Ok so I have about an inch and a half of clearance between my fender and tires. My springs are 500lbs/in (about 9k) and I can hit potholes and stuff okay. Motion ratio is something like 78% in the rear. So I can max out at 900lbs of compression in the rear. So while that dude would need stupid stiff springs to maintain that ride height, it doesn't need to be off the charts. This is making some pretty wild saftey exceptions.
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Aug 29, 2016 19:58
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One time when I was working at a suspension/chassis setup shop an evo came in with 2000lb/in rear springs. Really not sure what the guy who set that up was thinking.
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Aug 29, 2016 20:23
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jamal posted:One time when I was working at a suspension/chassis setup shop an evo came in with 2000lb/in rear springs. Really not sure what the guy who set that up was thinking. Bigger numbers are better? 
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Aug 29, 2016 20:46
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CommieGIR posted:To be fair, most Chinese made Jets and Cars do not meet the standards required for US or even EU sales. So outside of sales to Chinese allies, I don't think we'll see many of them. There's some Chinese cars already in Australia and the EU, I think. jamal posted:One time when I was working at a suspension/chassis setup shop an evo came in with 2000lb/in rear springs. Really not sure what the guy who set that up was thinking. Stiff is fast?
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Aug 29, 2016 20:47
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When I was a lot younger I "taught" myself what different suspension settings did by maxing something out on gran tourism then winding it back until I saw what happened. I'm sure I misunderstood 90% of what I did but I guess he was doing the real life expensive version of that. I learnt nothing and remembered none of it
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Aug 29, 2016 20:51
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kastein posted:There's gonna be a lot of new material for this thread soon I guess. Just hope it doesn't involve people dying. Reimagine that Boeing 787 wing stress test that far surpasses the goal strength but instead of success the wing snaps at 80 ft/lbs and the chicken bone holding the wings on impales the program director in the chest.
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Aug 29, 2016 21:12
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Slim Pickens posted:Reimagine that Boeing 787 wing stress test that far surpasses the goal strength but instead of success the wing snaps at 80 ft/lbs and the chicken bone holding the wings on impales the program director in the chest. ...and then we see them in the air over Beijing a year later anyway.
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Aug 29, 2016 21:40
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H110Hawk posted:Good news, China is going to start making plane engines! http://www.bbc.com/news/business-37212009 Technically, China already manufactures plane engines. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continental_Motors,_Inc. 
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Aug 29, 2016 21:52
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Slim Pickens posted:impales the program director in the chest. OBAMNA PHONE fucked around with this message at 22:20 on Aug 29, 2016 |
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Aug 29, 2016 21:59
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Seat Safety Switch posted:There's some Chinese cars already in Australia and the EU, I think. Yup, Great Wall Motors (warning: autoplay sound) already sell in AU and the UK. They're definitely a horrible mechanical failure. but so cheap
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Aug 29, 2016 21:59
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jamal posted:One time when I was working at a suspension/chassis setup shop an evo came in with 2000lb/in rear springs. Really not sure what the guy who set that up was thinking. Would one use crazy stiff springs on a car intended to run with a lot of downforce? I assume you have to go stiffer than normal in those cases but have no idea what's reasonable.
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Aug 29, 2016 22:01
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n0tqu1tesane posted:Technically, China already manufactures plane engines. I wouldn't exactly call Continental a company on the leading edge of aviation technology... China has been struggling with building properly modern gas turbine engines for a long, long time now, and their failure to do so has been somewhat of a national embarrassment for their aviation industry - I mean when your flashy new fifth-generation fighter jet has to rely (again) on Russian engines to fly because yours aren't ready (and might not ever be), that's kind of humiliating. Unlike a lot of machinery, gas turbine engines are notoriously difficult to reverse engineer on account of the metallurgy and the mind-bogglingly complex manufacturing processes involved.
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Aug 29, 2016 22:09
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wolrah posted:Would one use crazy stiff springs on a car intended to run with a lot of downforce? I assume you have to go stiffer than normal in those cases but have no idea what's reasonable. Yes, with a reasonable amount of downforce you usually end up with pretty high spring rates to minimize pitch and roll so aero properties stay consistant. A big, flat, front splitter for example is super sensitive to changes in angle and height (most time attack/track cars are leaving a ton of time on the table because of their front end aero). You'll also see things like 3rd springs/shocks and z-bars that only act in bump to support the car under aero loads but allow suspension movement in slower corners. In the case I mentioned the previous shop could have saved the guy some money by using blocks of wood or something instead. Oh, and related: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LFmWd2JkC8 Ideally you could route all the aero loads into the wheel uprights so that the chassis could be sprung normally. Some F1 and can am cars have tried it I think. jamal fucked around with this message at 22:24 on Aug 29, 2016 |
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Aug 29, 2016 22:20
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jamal posted:Ideally you could route all the aero loads into the wheel uprights so that the chassis could be sprung normally. Some F1 and can am cars have tried it I think. I seem to recall they were all done that way until the various series started requiring they be mounted to the chassis instead.
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Aug 29, 2016 22:32
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fridge corn posted:i think commercial aircraft components have to adhere to international standards so chinese made engines will have to pass all the same tests any other manufacturer's They no-poo poo make two versions of their aircraft; One that complies with the rules and can fly outside China, and a domestic version that doesn't and can't. There's no reason this'll be any different. The main difference between the two aircraft is part tracking and log books. Domestic aircraft will fly until they break, foreign ones are supposed to have parts swapped out before then, but that's assuming the engineers actually did the work to calculate the service life, and having dealt with Chinese engineers, I highly doubt they did. I also guarantee that parts with unknown history or exceeded allowable service life will find their way into the foreign aircraft when a contractor somewhere decides to cut costs for a quick buck before going bankrupt and reopening in the same factory with a different name. tldr; don't fly on a Chinese built aircraft
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Aug 29, 2016 22:56
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Slim Pickens posted:Reimagine that Boeing 787 wing stress test that far surpasses the goal strength but instead of success the wing snaps at 80 ft/lbs and the chicken bone holding the wings on impales the program director in the chest. Chinese manufacturing is as good as anything or even better than anything the rest of the world offers. The real question is if you pay for quality - the Chinese will give you exactly what you want. You pay for crap, they will send you crap. You want quality? The exact same line will give it to you in exactly the specs you require, pay up for it tho. Have a careful look at what you consider a quality product and you will almost certainly be surprised to find it's made in China literally a fish posted:Yup, Great Wall Motors (warning: autoplay sound) already sell in AU and the UK. Not anymore. They are perfectly adequate now and the next generation I would expect to be at least on level with the Koreans. There's a good argument they are better than most US cars right now - there's entire lines of China Domestic we barely see that are very fair cars. Unlike the Koreans, we wont see a few generations of jokes before they get genuinely good. TBH, I would not be surprised that in 10 years time, the whole Chinese Crap will be nothing more than a racist footnote, given the speed of Chinese development and the sheer amount of highly educated and motivated individuals China has a huge supply of. It's not all industrial espionage that is fuelling China's development.
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Aug 29, 2016 23:16
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I am reminded of this presentation (PDF) about Chinese electronics counterfeiting. My favourite part is page 23, where they’re washing electronics components by hand in the river, but the forged documents (including milspec) are more relevant here. One document has the inspector listed as “JDOE”. Some of these parts cost one tenth of one cent each, but someone is still going to the trouble of washing them, re‐packaging them, and passing them off as new.
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Aug 29, 2016 23:36
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CAT INTERCEPTOR posted:Chinese manufacturing is as good as anything or even better than anything the rest of the world offers. The real question is if you pay for quality - the Chinese will give you exactly what you want. You pay for crap, they will send you crap. You want quality? The exact same line will give it to you in exactly the specs you require, pay up for it tho. I think the issue is that local industry can produce quality goods too, meaning the only Chinese goods most people are exposed to is the cheap crap.
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Aug 29, 2016 23:38
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Enourmo posted:I seem to recall they were all done that way until the various series started requiring they be mounted to the chassis instead. There were a lot of early attempts to use wings mounted direct to suspension that were... not adequately strong. *quickedit* CAT INTERCEPTOR posted:TBH, I would not be surprised that in 10 years time, the whole Chinese Crap will be nothing more than a racist footnote, given the speed of Chinese development and the sheer amount of highly educated and motivated individuals China has a huge supply of. It's not all industrial espionage that is fuelling China's development. ... working for a small engine / generator company that does our production in China and dealing with the results of their engineers trying to solve problems... I'm... less sure than you seem to be. mekilljoydammit fucked around with this message at 23:41 on Aug 29, 2016 |
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Aug 29, 2016 23:38
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I recall a story from one of my teachers at trade school who was installing some flashy new (at the time) CNC lathes in factories in China in the late 80s. He got to one factory and pulled up with the truck, and asked the foreman through his driver/interpreter where the forklift was to get the lathe off the truck. The foreman laughed and then got 30-odd guys to pick it up and move it into place. They pushed some i-beams through where the forks were supposed to go and just schlepped it into the factory while he watched. He said it was like watching some ancient emperor on his mobile throne.
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Aug 29, 2016 23:42
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CAT INTERCEPTOR posted:Chinese manufacturing is as good as anything or even better than anything the rest of the world offers. The real question is if you pay for quality - the Chinese will give you exactly what you want. You pay for crap, they will send you crap. You want quality? The exact same line will give it to you in exactly the specs you require, pay up for it tho. You also have to constantly watch the output to make sure they aren't trying to cheat you. The internet is awash with stories of people getting quality prototypes back from China. Then they go to production and find out several components were replaced with inferior and cheaper bits so the factory could save money.
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Aug 29, 2016 23:49
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um excuse me posted:Oh god. As someone that works with engineering on jet engine design and testing I can tell you that even the big players in the business are only starting to understand some of the ways metallurgy performs under the conditions you find in jet engines. Like, we figured out something new the other week that effects nearly every jet engine made since the 80s. The Chinese don't know any of this yet. That's scary. I can't wait. It blows my mind what kind of work modern high bypass jet / fans / turbines whatever engines can produce. I hope they post FAA proving videos to youtube.
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Aug 29, 2016 23:50
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Cojawfee posted:You also have to constantly watch the output to make sure they aren't trying to cheat you. The internet is awash with stories of people getting quality prototypes back from China. Then they go to production and find out several components were replaced with inferior and cheaper bits so the factory could save money. Factories have also been caught skimming by offering the initial batch with respectable parts and then using less quality parts on the production run, and the factory pockets the difference. Yeah, China's done some amazing things considering they had to play catch up, but they are still cutting corners left and right and its not gotten much better.
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Aug 29, 2016 23:54
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mekilljoydammit posted:
A few of the companies I do IT for deal directly with Chinese manufacturing. I'm VERY sure I'm right, especially with the "pay for quality, you get it" and the pace they are developing. Just in the last 10 years, the changes have been not short of miraculous and will just keep going... for an example, the steel we used to get from local production was a mile better 10 years ago. Not anymore, China can outdo any local steel. Electronics are also so much different as well, all our new heavy manufacturing machinery is made in China and you cant tell the difference between say a German sourced machine or a Chinese one. If anything, the Chinese one is better. We have for example a testing rig that is from 1998 and it is is ridiculous - looks like a 1950's Soviet contraption. We're replacing them with something that looks and works as well as any German testing rig but half the cost and twice the warranty, with some of the best build quality and wiring I've ever seen. Seriously, it's a goddamn work of art internally. We're getting to the point where Chinese production machinery is just straight out better and works with better tolerances than anything from the USA or Germany - also cheaper to run and more reliable. We have a fibregass roofing machine that is almost fume proof - which if you have ever worked with creating fibreglass panelling, is a major achievement. The warehouse there no longer looks like a Columbian marching powder facility and it doesn't give you a resin high from 100 meters.. we no longer need EPA exemptions. That fibreglasser wasn't cheap by any stretch but it's paid for itself by not exposing the production to EPA fines. Enourmo posted:I think the issue is that local industry can produce quality goods too, meaning the only Chinese goods most people are exposed to is the cheap crap. Just proves the whole "pay for crap, you get crap" quote:Yeah, China's done some amazing things considering they had to play catch up, but they are still cutting corners left and right and its not gotten much better. No different than any other production warehouse anywhere else in the world. Unless you keep a heavy hand on production facilities, all sort of ridiculous poo poo gets pulled, the Chinese are no different or worse. CAT INTERCEPTOR fucked around with this message at 00:04 on Aug 30, 2016 |
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Aug 30, 2016 00:01
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CAT INTERCEPTOR posted:We have for example a testing rig that is from 1998 and it is is ridiculous - looks like a 1950's Soviet contraption. We're replacing them with something that looks and works as well as any German testing rig but half the cost and twice the warranty, with some of the best build quality and wiring I've ever seen. Seriously, it's a goddamn work of art internally. So what you’re saying is that your rig will determine you’re doing a test, then completely alter its behaviour to guarantee a pass?
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Aug 30, 2016 00:15
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