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Frabba posted:For a 13 page chapter, it feels like a ton just happened. really? to me it was just more "practice the new dempsey roll" which i think we've had enough of. in the older parts of this story the next match would just skip to the pre-fight locker room or smthn. another inconsistency in the timeline of the story: aoki and kimura are said to be freshman in the flashback when they meet takamura. then following getting kicked out of school there are month markers for how long its been. generously, there is about 8 months following them getting kicked out and their first match...which would put that at like 15-16 years old, and a license is only available at 17. of note timeline wise takamura seems to quit school his senior year to go pro, he already has 2 fights done by the time he does so. so he should be say 17 years old at the time (younger than i thought really). ippo around this time is only 13, as hes 4 years younger than takamura and 2 years younger than aokimura. ippo joins up with the gym in his senior year iirc, so itagaki 15 -> ippo 17 -> aokimura 19 -> takamura 21 at this point. also kinda funny is that, it doesn't seem like it, but itagaki was likely boxing before ippo in even an absolute sense, not just relatively started earlier. i believe its 1998 in the current story which would put the main cast at the following ages and fights: itagaki, 23, 14 fights ippo, 25, 25 fights aoki, 27, 24 fights kimura, 27, 25 fights takamura, 29, 24 fights so ippo and kimura are the most experienced in sheer number of fights, but takamura's had the most at a really high level considering he took the japanese title within just a few and has fought plenty of world #1 rankers and 3 champions already. if you count amateur bouts, itagaki will have the most but the amount is never really stated - he's the only one with a more typical amateur->pro career out of everyone in the gym. few other interesting things at least to me: takamura is now at the age when he referred to date as the "old fart". this probably ties in with his intent to quicken the pace in his belt hunt, but as he didn't take a 4 year hiatus it's unlikely his skills will deteriorate the way they did for date. takamura won the japanese belt in 91, so he was 21 at the time, which is older than ippo when he won it. ippo was 20 when he fought date and lost, and still 20 when he fought sendou and won. the career trajectory isn't too different up to this point (aside from takamura dominating all his opponents, where ippo had notably difficult fights over and over) - takamura won the JBC belt in his 9th fight while ippo lost his first attempt in his 11th and won his second attempt in his 13th. chalk it up to people running from takamura i suppose, harder for him to get fights. now itagaki's attempt is much later - i suppose a setback from that initial loss? his JBC challenge is his 14th bout at 23 years old, aaaand he lost so he's definitely not keeping up with the precendent established by the other two "geniuses" at the gym, even if he's grouped with them often. kimura's belt fight comes in his 16th fight at age 23, more close to itagaki. of note, kimura's record was way way better in the older days. he was 9-1 at one point early on, but now in his last 7 fights hes drawn 3, lost 2 and only won 2. quite a change the more of a "joke character" he became. aoki's first title challenge came latest of them all, at 24 after 16 fights as well. consistent, at least with kimura. not too much interesting about his career, its always been spotty. world title stuff - takamura won the junior middleweight title from hawk in his 17th fight at age 25. not a lot of activity for him in those years, just in like with the whole "we can't really find you fights" thing. date actually fought for his world title younger than takamura, at age 24 he lost his first match against martinez, but it was only his 14th fight! kinda strange, guess he took the belt early and only fought when necessary. in 94 he fights ricardo martinez again and loses, putting him at 28/29 at this juncture. vorg's win is at roughly the same timeframe as the other two - 25 years old he beats mike elliot, but most interestingly is his record coming into the fight.. he's 10-2 prior, meaning his fight for the world title was only his 13th professional without even a stunning record beforehand. finally, miyata's age corresponds pretty close with ippo - being 21 and in his 15th fight when he beats Gregory for the OPBF title. miyata's now 25 as well, which seems to be the magic number for going for the world title. morikawa's pretty consistent generally with the ages, i would expect the characters around this age bracket that are built up to be world contenders to take their chances pretty soon in the story.
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Jul 29, 2016 23:35
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| # ? May 30, 2024 16:45 |
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Chapter 1150 Don't tease the old man if you can't give him a happy ending - Takamura to Ippo. Also, nice callback to an old joke.
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Aug 30, 2016 21:34
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Please dear god ippo just commit here
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Aug 31, 2016 02:08
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tbp posted:Please dear god ippo just commit here "I prefer being a fisherman" The End.
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Aug 31, 2016 14:27
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Blinks77 posted:"I prefer being a fisherman" Thus starts the Umezawa fishing manga arc. Yagi becomes a demonic rival who must be destroyed by burning spirit.
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Aug 31, 2016 15:31
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After the Woli fight put me off of Ippo really hard (because goddamn was that match bad), I finally came back around to it, and I'm just up to the start of the Richard Bison fight. My overall impression is that Woli was definitely the nadir of things--there's been a marked improvement since then. Seeing that George took a couple weeks off for research (or even 'research') was really encouraging to see. Itagaki vs. Imai was really satisfying. I can't say that I hate Itagaki--I like that he's an outboxer--but it was really satisfying seeing Imai go into the match with a plan to shut him down, and then just execute it. It wasn't pretty, it wasn't fancy, it was just a matter of physically jamming him in the corner, and getting a couple good hits in to stop his movement, and then ripping him apart. But even though Imai wins, you're still left with the sense that Itagaki has way more future upside than he does, and that if they fought again Imai probably wouldn't win. To me, this did a much better job of selling that message than Woli did, possibly because Woli never really came across as a boxer. This wasn't a long fight, but it did everything it needed to. Then we have Ippo against Gonzales, and... honestly, I liked this a lot more than I thought I was going to. I like when a match is portrayed as to people picking their way through each other's gameplan. The early half of the match actually showed us what had previously only kind of told us--that Ippo has one plan, and it's a simple one, but he is very, very good at executing it. Gonzales plays an excellent long game of holding back different moves and slowly revealing them when the last one's been figured out, misleading Ippo all the while, and the entire time Ippo is drawing on his experience from past matches to determine "okay, I've seen motionless jabs before, this is how I dealt with it. I've seen punches that changed trajectory, this is how I dealt with that," and so on. Even if Ippo's never actually in the lead, there's a definite thought process going on there that's very distinct from the usual "If I can just land a hit..!" that we've seen him default to. Gonzales reverting to Metztli mode isn't exactly great, but I can appreciate that it made for a change of pace for the match. And because Ippo had already displayed technical skill in the match, I didn't mind that this turned into an opportunity for him to display his incredible endurance, and getting inside Gonzales's head that way. And the fact that Gonzales won not by flipping out on Ippo, but drawing back from full instinct to be able to line up a counter further softened that blow. Ippo lost to boxing, not bullshit. A very solid fight. The 'Ippo has punch-drunk hands' chapters were worrying. I know I rambled about how much Ippo was getting hit in the head and not getting consequences, but... I think I wanted more for him to not present his face to the enemy and eat heavy straights all day, not for him to get brain damage  . Still, I'm glad this is getting addressed. Takamaru's speech to Ippo about whether or not he's actually ready to move on to the world was well done as well--between all of this, I can really buy that Ippo has decided he's on the last leg of his career.The Mashiba and Sendo fights were both good. I liked Mashiba's fight more, but that's really not a surprise given that Mashiba is the best, and that he won doing much the same thing as Gonzales's first part of the match. I really want him to get a couple more moves, but it's a good start. Sendo's was... it was good, but it felt a bit like just the latter half of the Gonzales fight-still good, but not in the direction I prefer. And was the fist twist thing he did in the clinch even a legal boxing move? It feels like the sort of thing that might actually be banned. EDIT: gently caress YEAH, FLICKER JABS The Lord of Hats fucked around with this message at 21:51 on Sep 1, 2016 |
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Sep 1, 2016 21:47
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a portuguese scan of the new issue is up. im not gonna spoil anything bc id oubt anyone really cares bc most of this thread is now me talking to mysef. i wont be too harsh bc okay i cant read portuguese but its pretty clear ippo gives a halfass answer to takamura on the roof. then he spars some probably mexican fighter and it looks like hes on the ground at the end of the issue. he'll probably get up and do okay but seriously COME ON already
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Sep 2, 2016 11:40
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This manga makes me sad. I used to really like Ippo (the character).
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Sep 2, 2016 12:01
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hes written himself into a corner. over and over again some degree of outright wild mentality is shown to be needed on the world stage. even eagle, the most goody two shoes world champ shown, had a bit of an animalistic never say die approach when it came down to it (im reminded of when he was on deaths door and started throwing the immaculate 1-2s, right before takamura blindly beat him to death almost, oneof the best fight moments in the entire story) so we can understand ippo needs that degree of dedication to keep on in the story but there is realistically no reason that would be sufficient for him to gain it. he's satisfied with where he is, and theres no snedo or vorg or miyata in front of him so he doesn't really give a poo poo anymore. the best though was probably date - if you read that fight you'll remember that ippo DID have that insane wild dedication at one point (when he was wavering in and out of consciousness and was leaning on date and basically destroyed his stomach while blacked out). current ippo wouldn't have that same level of winning desire, he's go down earlier even if technique wise hes way better now.
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Sep 2, 2016 12:10
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The coach is gonna die.
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Sep 2, 2016 12:56
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tbp posted:hes written himself into a corner. over and over again some degree of outright wild mentality is shown to be needed on the world stage. even eagle, the most goody two shoes world champ shown, had a bit of an animalistic never say die approach when it came down to it (im reminded of when he was on deaths door and started throwing the immaculate 1-2s, right before takamura blindly beat him to death almost, oneof the best fight moments in the entire story) I, in a great amount, blame the coach for that. Ippo came out exactly how he wanted, and it turns out that's not useful for getting belts. Other coaches have commented on how Kamogawa holds his fighters back too. There was a period where Ippo was growing into a champion's mentality and Kamogawa told him that's not how he was supposed to be.
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Sep 3, 2016 01:02
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Ippo is just not a killer. If he doesn't need fighting, he should just quit. Guys like Takamura, Hawk and Alf really like beating people up. Ippo doesn't, and that separates him from them
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Sep 3, 2016 02:06
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For some reason Takamura has this belief that you need to be a weird psychopath in the ring to be a world champ. Ippo doesn't get a boner from beating people to death and he doesn't run on anger or "revenge" or whatever. I guess the way Ippo could be "crazy" and still be Ippo would be if he completely dehumanizes himself and faces to bloodshed for lack of better words- basically rather than making himself psychotically hyped up, or hating his opponent, or being angry he just kinda views it like he's perfecting an art or something and his opponent is just this sandbag he's beating on and focuses entirely on "boxing".
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Sep 3, 2016 02:11
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Yeah I don't see why you need to have some crazy mentality. You just need to be better at boxing than the other guy. That David Eagle dude wasn't some bloodthirsty guy and even Takamura thought he reminded him of Ippo.
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Sep 3, 2016 02:30
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Drink Top posted:I, in a great amount, blame the coach for that. Ippo came out exactly how he wanted, and it turns out that's not useful for getting belts. Other coaches have commented on how Kamogawa holds his fighters back too. There was a period where Ippo was growing into a champion's mentality and Kamogawa told him that's not how he was supposed to be. its weird, cuz from a reader perspective its hard to disagree that the coach is to blame for a lot of ippos faults. but in an in-universe sense, thats not the case unfortunately (itd make for a better story if it were). im 100% convinced that we will never have an arc where the coach examines his failings as a trainer, he'll always be vindicated in the end because that's just the way the in-universe structure is Fabricated posted:For some reason Takamura has this belief that you need to be a weird psychopath in the ring to be a world champ. That Works posted:Yeah I don't see why you need to have some crazy mentality. You just need to be better at boxing than the other guy. so its less that ippo needs a violence obsession and more that he needs to be able to commit himself more (which he hasn't done since the miyata fight was lost aside from on like one occassion, really). in the anime its the "green eyes" thing, the belief that no matter what he wont and cant lose. takamura again knows how it "should" be - in all of his big three fights he basically wills himself back from the dead because he cant fathom losing and what losing would mean. a big part of why david eagle lost was because his motivation ended at "find a worthy rival" as opposed to "win this loving fight no matter what". he himself acknowledges that mid-fight when he realizes that, while he (eagle) is super happy to find someone on his level for the first time, his opponent (takamura) couldn't give less of a poo poo about eagle. what "crossing the line" means for ippo is less becoming hawk-like. in-universe, what it really means, is being willing to put it all on the line including the possibility of getting injured, which is the big thing that will be addressed (the line drawing, him saying to kumi that his major responsibility as a boxer was walking out on his own feet, etc.) whats holding him back is his mother and the fishing boat, he will move forward when he's able to accept the risk of permanent damage that comes with fighting boxers on the world stage. current-ippo would never do something like what he did in the date fight, leaning up against date mindlessly pounding away, because he doesn't take it that seriously anymore. and that is why he is weaker now.
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Sep 3, 2016 08:59
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Honestly the whole idea that someone would become national champion without considering boxing his top priority is hilarious.
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Sep 3, 2016 09:01
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That Works posted:Yeah I don't see why you need to have some crazy mentality. You just need to be better at boxing than the other guy. Most fighters do have that mentality, it's why they started that type of career. People who pick it up for self defense don't need the incredible pressure of a world stage, unless their goals changed midway. Ippo doesn't want to beat Alfredo because he is someone to test himself with, prove he is better, and shut his trashtalking mouth up. He is not an enemy or anything. He's just someone that Kamogawa's teaching could work against, and that's a flimsy as gently caress motivation in fightsports
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Sep 3, 2016 12:37
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Ytlaya posted:Honestly the whole idea that someone would become national champion without considering boxing his top priority is hilarious. it seems that way and the story goes really far making the national title seem like a huge thing, IRL its nothing like that tho lmao. i just moved to australia and im a fan of the sport, i checked out the rankings in the country and like half the titles are vacant bc nobody gives a poo poo about them. that's not the case in ippo tho at least. one thing i like a lot about HnI is that ippo isn't some no-talent all hard work protagonist, he's considered a pretty gifted boxer all things considered. his natural talent + high work rate is good enough for the national level and maybe even the regional level, we'll see if he can break the barrier between him and world contenders, though. (one interesting thing, ippo's ranking (and miyatas too) dont necessarily have to reflect their actual skill. its tradition to have OPBF champion ranked in the top 10, and ippo as "unofficial" champion gets the same treatment. really though, there's probably a lot of lower ranking ppl that are as good or better or at lesat should be)
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Sep 3, 2016 13:58
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It's already been stated, but Ippo's gap between going to the world stage is a 'need' to be there. When you look at people fighting for world rankings fictional or real, and see their interviews, they tend to have a 'need' and that need is associated with fighting. Fighting will get them where they want to be. It reminds me of a Conor McGregor interview where he talked about how he was barely scraping by financially for a long time. Ippo doesn't need to go to the world stage to get Kumi, he doesn't need to do it to keep his friends, he doesn't need to do it to support his family, he doesn't need to do it for himself. There's no personal drive to be that high up. I wouldn't mind if the manga just acknowledged that and moved the spotlight to other fighters while keeping him in the story, but that's not the kind of manga that HnI is.
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Sep 4, 2016 00:14
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1152 raws are up and maybe we havent given this manga enough credit. apparently ippos lack of ability hasnt really been mental but hes developing symptoms of punch drunk disease. if thats really the case then i suppose they'll have to stop the manga short from ricardo, its not loving ashita no joe he's not a suicidally depressed kid willing to drag someone to hell for no real reason
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Sep 4, 2016 07:02
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tbp posted:1152 raws are up and maybe we havent given this manga enough credit.
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Sep 4, 2016 07:14
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Fabricated posted:If he's going to keep boxing it'd be nice to see this turn into an impetus for Ippo to use his defense properly instead of letting himself get sandbagged for most of his fights.
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Sep 4, 2016 08:23
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also apparently the new chapter has the words : takamura "is broken" in it so we also might be getting a return of the eye issue. i honestly can't tell where they're going with the detached retina..on one hand they went out of their way at one point to say it wasn't a thing but on the other theyve hitnted at it sooooo many timse
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Sep 5, 2016 05:26
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i think this manga should be put down for tbp's sanity/he should read baki instead
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Sep 5, 2016 07:52
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I'm just finishing with the fisherman fight, and I'm trying not to spoil things by reading this thread, but I did read enough to find out coach's strategy never evolves past, take punches to the face, use spirit, big punch. The over reliance on these "special moves" and secret weapons is getting annoying too.
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Sep 5, 2016 13:07
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ElGroucho posted:I'm just finishing with the fisherman fight, and I'm trying not to spoil things by reading this thread, but I did read enough to find out coach's strategy never evolves past, take punches to the face, use spirit, big punch. Kamogawa does not learn to be a better coach.
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Sep 5, 2016 13:16
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ElGroucho posted:I'm just finishing with the fisherman fight, and I'm trying not to spoil things by reading this thread, but I did read enough to find out coach's strategy never evolves past, take punches to the face, use spirit, big punch. one of my favorite aspects about the earlier story compared to the later is that there is far less "special" or gimmick moves. even through date it's generally just boxing with predispositions to stuff the ppl are good at, not like ultra tech combos left and right. however, the author notices that and eventually even has a character remark on it. the story then has a few good fights without too many gimmicks. kamogawa doesn't do anything really get any better as a coach but he has some pretty tight moments, takamura's most recent fight has a really cool thing early on ("why don't you ask him") and generally he's better overall in the takamura fights than in the ippo ones
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Sep 5, 2016 14:03
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Takamura is good at boxing and Ippo isn't, so Ippo is more subordinate to and dependent on Kamogawa, which emphasises how he's a bad coach destroying a talented young man.
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Sep 5, 2016 14:16
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Takamura should kill coach and take his place. He always has way better, more practical advice, anyway.
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Sep 5, 2016 19:49
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okay do if 1153 Raws are to be believed ippos straight punch drunk lol I honestly can't say where the story will go from here. But I may be misreading, the coach may just have concerns about his motivation but ippo himself thinks he might be punch drunk idk. Hopefully this is the last internal hurdle before the end game of the manga though,
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Sep 6, 2016 03:22
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tbp posted:also apparently the new chapter has the words : the funniest thing about it is that it is easily correctable with surgery. It can reoccur easier the next time but it's still treatable.
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Sep 6, 2016 17:58
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1153 spoilers below I'm on my phone and also nobody gives too much of a poo poo so not tagging This story looks to be taking a very dark turn. I'm excited but a little heartbroken. Even in grainy raw form, 1153 has one of the best single panels I have ever seen in manga (ippos cracking silhouette with him in the victory pose from, I believe, the vorg match)
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Sep 10, 2016 11:58
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1151 is out. decent chapter but knowing where its going make me concerned.
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Sep 11, 2016 03:05
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It's almost like letting your fighter keep fighting with concussions during a match is bad.
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Sep 11, 2016 17:48
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Man that would be a surprising but depressing way to end the series, at least I'm interested in what happens next
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Sep 11, 2016 23:24
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The thing is I can't see them really doing it. Like in ashita no Joe, the protagonist is a severely depressed person with no motivations beyond literally killing himself in the ring. So it makes sense that his story can continue with him being punch drunk. Ippo legitimately has a life outside boxing and is a much lighter story, I'd be really surprised if they have him get in the ring ever especially because his coaches and doctors aren't alcoholic retards
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Sep 12, 2016 04:28
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Likely it'll be like, "Oh, you'll recover if you just don't take any headshots for a while". It'll be recommended that he rest longer. That'll be unacceptable to Ippo and he'll come up with a brilliant idea: "How can I avoid being punched in the head so much?". And his challenge for his comeback match will be to not get hit at all so he can buy time to completely recover while still boxing.
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Sep 12, 2016 12:02
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Watch it be some bullshit like "Ippo just needs glasses" or "Ippo didn't know he was left handed" or, etc etc.
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Sep 12, 2016 12:19
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Didn't he also have problems when inking for Umezawa hundreds of chapters ago?
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Sep 13, 2016 06:09
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it ending with ippo dead having never kissed a girl would be really funny, not dark
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Sep 13, 2016 10:33
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