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It's one thing to make an rear end of yourself talking about game design, or to be too up his own butt about layouts and poo poo. I've defended Crane to the extent that we put up with a lot worse in the industry for much less output. Running your business interactions that way is downright stupid and insulting.
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Aug 30, 2016 18:46
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He's also against digital releases because it would ruin the tactile, boutique experience his handcrafted artisan RPGs offer. He's so far up his own rear end that he's on a second lap and going up it again.
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Aug 30, 2016 19:13
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moths posted:He's also against digital releases because it would ruin the tactile, boutique experience his handcrafted artisan RPGs offer. He's so far up his own rear end that he's on a second lap and going up it again. Well, he's also against them because when he did make a digital release of BW, illicit distribution was too high. Most folks sort of just deal, though.
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Aug 30, 2016 19:34
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How have people not figured out yet that the only people anti-piracy measures affect are the people who won't pirate? Actual pirates crack/scan that poo poo in in like two days.
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Aug 30, 2016 19:38
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I find it quite funny that he's a kickstarter employee.
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Aug 30, 2016 19:49
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Wasn't there some other stupid thing about his digital distribution, though? Like you had to PayPal him personally and wait for an email or something dumb. Even if you wanted a legit paid-for copy, he wouldn't sell you the expansions.
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Aug 30, 2016 19:50
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moths posted:Wasn't there some other stupid thing about his digital distribution, though? Like you had to PayPal him personally and wait for an email or something dumb. Even if you wanted a legit paid-for copy, he wouldn't sell you the expansions. The PayPal thing was more a legacy of the fact that when he first did it, there weren't good ways to distribute game books online. Apocalypse World for a long time worked the same way - you had to wait for a personal email to get an access link to the pdfs. There was a little more customer facing stuff to the order process, but it boiled down to the same thing. I think the catch that Crane doesn't get, and that some other companies have internalized, is that you aren't losing many actual sales to it. There's certainly nuance there - pirating pay-what-you-like books or stuff sold for charity is pretty rotten, for example. But the evidence suggests that most piracy is driven by people who wouldn't have bought the media in the first place.
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Aug 30, 2016 20:05
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I got to see Crane talk a long while ago, and I still remember just how confrontational and opinionated me was in talks. While he made interesting points at times, at the same time he didn't strike me as the kind of guy who admits wrongdoing or backs down. When I had questions about Mouse Guard, he referred me to his message board.grassy gnoll posted:I like some of Luke Crane's games, but he needs to be shocked every time he comes up with a twee new term for an otherwise self-explanatory word. The dumb wizard-speak just seems like an extension of that. Yeah, I literally couldn't grasp the Mouse Guard rules until I realized he was just referring too normal game concepts by new names and I had to "translate" the whole thing in my head to have it make sense. "The GM Turn is an adventure and the Player Turn is downtime..." I haven't felt real eager after all that to follow anything he does.
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Aug 30, 2016 20:41
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I grabbed a copy of Burning Empires at Gen Con quite a few years back. I couldn't understand a word of it.
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Aug 30, 2016 21:27
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Like I don't actually care if someone doesn't want to sell pdfs or not, that's part of running their own business that I don't care about. Is it kind of backwards and dumb? Maybe, but whatever, guy wants to leave money on the table he isn't obliged to do otherwise. Acting like an rear end in a top hat towards the people funding your pet project, on the other hand, is a different story.
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Aug 30, 2016 21:28
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e; quote is not edit.
Lemon-Lime fucked around with this message at 08:26 on Aug 31, 2016 |
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Aug 30, 2016 22:33
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Lichtenstein posted:I find it quite funny that he's a kickstarter employee. I wonder if KS will start berating him for making them look bad (employees represent their company etc etc).
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Aug 30, 2016 22:49
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WaywardWoodwose posted:I got my package from Crane the other day and when i popped it open, found out i had accidentally ordered another copy of Burning Wheel Gold by mistake ( I just clicked the first thing that gave me A book and was done with it), when i already own two already. I know it's my own fault, but I am still so mad at that loving obtuse poo poo he put out that made me stay away from his kickstarter page, and ignore his updates. I would have PMd this, but it doesn't look like you have them; I might be cautiously interested in buying your new-printing copy of Gold off you (if you aren't sending it back to Luke for a refund)!
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Aug 30, 2016 22:57
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Luke's official "response" over on G+ seems to be "well, people hate me no matter what I do so I pretty much just do whatever I want now."
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Aug 30, 2016 23:19
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Evil Mastermind posted:"I pretty much just do whatever I want now." The only surprising thing here is that he admits it so openly
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Aug 30, 2016 23:45
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As a friend put it (roughly) after I talked about seeing Luke Crane at PAX East: "Oh, I thought that was just a persona he played online, I didn't think he could be like that all the time."
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Aug 30, 2016 23:49
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I feel like that statement applies to about 98% of the big names in this hobby.
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Aug 30, 2016 23:52
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moths posted:I feel like that statement applies to about 98% of the big names in this hobby. Error 404 posted:The only surprising thing here is that he admits it so openly
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Aug 30, 2016 23:57
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Whups, wrong thread.
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Aug 30, 2016 23:59
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Evil Mastermind posted:How have people not figured out yet that the only people anti-piracy measures affect are the people who won't pirate? Actual pirates crack/scan that poo poo in in like two days. Quick question. What if a publisher were to upload their own PDFs onto filesharing websites? In the sense of "if anybody's gonna be distributing my books on Pirate Bay, it's gonna be me!" Does this make a difference on things one way or another, in terms of public perception and/or other things? Plus you know, there's not always a good way to tell if a scanned Player's Handbook is gonna be good quality, so if a publisher themselves do it you have a good chance that it'll be as close to the original file as possible, right?
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Aug 31, 2016 00:13
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Libertad! posted:Quick question. What if a publisher were to upload their own PDFs onto filesharing websites? In the sense of "if anybody's gonna be distributing my books on Pirate Bay, it's gonna be me!"
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Aug 31, 2016 00:23
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Libertad! posted:Quick question. What if a publisher were to upload their own PDFs onto filesharing websites? In the sense of "if anybody's gonna be distributing my books on Pirate Bay, it's gonna be me!" e:fb Eclipse Phase did this (does this?) IIRC and the line is still chugging along so I can't say it's hurt them much, I don't know if it's helped them either. But as others commented, piracy just doesn't work the way content owners think it does. It's great as a smokescreen for anti-consumer legislation like the DMCA though.
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Aug 31, 2016 00:26
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I just googled burning wheel pdf download torrent and the first result was a pirate link for the gold edition so I don't think his policy's working out too well. I don't think the new kickstarter edition is around yet but everything else is and I'd expect it to join at some point.
Wrestlepig fucked around with this message at 00:33 on Aug 31, 2016 |
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Aug 31, 2016 00:28
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chaos rhames posted:I just googled burning wheel pdf download torrent and the first result was a pirate link for the gold edition so I don't think his policy's working out too well. But at least Luke can rest assured that it was dastardly dread pirates who pilfered the magical tomes from the cask of the Great Crane Wizard. The archmage himself is blameless in these infernal proceedings!
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Aug 31, 2016 00:32
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chaos rhames posted:I just googled burning wheel pdf download torrent and the first result was a pirate link for the gold edition so I don't think his policy's working out too well. I don't think the new kickstarter edition is around yet but everything else is and I'd expect it to join at some point. Yeah, I felt like bringing up that someone pirated burning wheel gold years ago because pirates be pirates, yo! It's illegal, fo sure, but its not something you can fight against without hurting your actual customers.
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Aug 31, 2016 00:34
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Slimnoid posted:I wonder if KS will start berating him for making them look bad (employees represent their company etc etc). Hahahahahaha no, Kickstarter gives approximately zero fucks. They don't even allow people to report obvious scam projects unless you're some kind of rights-holder who can throw legal weight around, so like that guy who started three simultaneous Kickstarters for various hypothetical Pathfinder adventures with stretch goals like "I'll give you this Knights of the Round Table diorama that totally isn't a picture I stole from someone else's store" got to be funded to the tune of some thousands of dollars by an obvious con-artist, meanwhile Kickstarter gets to pocket their cut and shrug. "Hey, caveat emptor, y'know?"
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Aug 31, 2016 00:58
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grassy gnoll posted:And while we're on the subject, he can make very pretty individual pages, but there's not a single layout he's done that's easy to use, and that drives me up the drat wall. I get the very strong feeling he lays his books out with the idea that people will read them cover to cover, start to finish. When I sit and read through one of his books they generally make sense (now, after having read a few, played some, and watched actual play examples), but when I get to the table and need to reference an actual rule I have no idea where to look.
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Aug 31, 2016 01:02
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Evil Mastermind posted:Luke's official "response" over on G+ seems to be "well, people hate me no matter what I do so I pretty much just do whatever I want now." Hahaha. Nice! I just got my Codex and I have to say that even with the obscure wizard-speak, the KS was way easier than what he used to do when he'd release a new book. I don't really know what people get out of worrying about when the book will arrive. I guess maybe some of you in the US are used to getting poo poo instantly, but here in Canada, if I buy an RPG from the US, I might wait a couple of weeks for customs to clear it - or it might arrive in like two days. So I simply don't worry about these things - it'll get here when it gets here. I know GMT games gets a lot of love in the board games thread, and figuring out when you'll get something you pre-ordered from them is at least as difficult and substantially slower than this KS was. Still, being rude to your customers is pretty uncool. If it were me I'd have just been inwardly disdainful instead of outwardly, because I'm generally polite and accommodating while Luke is generally cantankerous. You're allowed to deride customers for their stupid questions inside your head. In public, you're supposed to do the whole "oh, there's no such thing as a stupid question" bit because being polite is part of the job. Oh well, I like Luke's stuff because he's not like me - I like the way he writes, and the slightly pompous style is well-suited to Burning Wheel. dwarf74 posted:I grabbed a copy of Burning Empires at Gen Con quite a few years back.
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Aug 31, 2016 01:05
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Kai Tave posted:Hahahahahaha no, Kickstarter gives approximately zero fucks. They don't even allow people to report obvious scam projects unless you're some kind of rights-holder who can throw legal weight around, so like that guy who started three simultaneous Kickstarters for various hypothetical Pathfinder adventures with stretch goals like "I'll give you this Knights of the Round Table diorama that totally isn't a picture I stole from someone else's store" got to be funded to the tune of some thousands of dollars by an obvious con-artist, meanwhile Kickstarter gets to pocket their cut and shrug. "Hey, caveat emptor, y'know?" EDIT: What does he actually even do for that company? MadScientistWorking fucked around with this message at 01:28 on Aug 31, 2016 |
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Aug 31, 2016 01:22
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MadScientistWorking posted:I think the question was asked because unlike every other Kickstarter he works for the actual company. I know why it was asked, and I'm 100% positive that literally nothing at all will come of it. People can I-told-you-so when something does, but I'm not holding my breath.
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Aug 31, 2016 01:29
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Kai Tave posted:I know why it was asked, and I'm 100% positive that literally nothing at all will come of it. People can I-told-you-so when something does, but I'm not holding my breath.
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Aug 31, 2016 01:50
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Jimbozig posted:Hahaha. Nice! I just got my Codex and I have to say that even with the obscure wizard-speak, the KS was way easier than what he used to do when he'd release a new book. it's a bit confusing and even frustrating when you see people talking about how they got their book yesterday and never even got tracking info while you got tracking confirmation two weeks ago and the package still hasn't shipped. If Luke Crane weren't being a tool about it, apologized, and explained he's manually shipping everything out of his garage or whatever people would (mostly) be satisfied with that. good for you on being one of the lucky ones that didn't get caught in that awkward delay though.
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Aug 31, 2016 02:16
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Nuns with Guns posted:good for you on being one of the lucky ones that didn't get caught in that awkward delay though. I wasn't, though? I just received my book today - I think I was one of the late ones. Or maybe there are still more people waiting longer. I don't remember when or if I got any tracking info - I don't even bother looking at tracking info from the US, because it usually goes like "Your package made it to the border and then ... ???" until it reaches my doorstep. Like I said, maybe you folks in the US are just used to having accurate shipping info, short shipping times, and never owing money to customs. You're lucky. From up here in Canada, we can't rely on any of those things for packages from the US, and it's usually got little to do with the seller of the product.
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Aug 31, 2016 02:33
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Mors Rattus posted:cowards Luke Crane stomps angrily back and forth in front of a row of d6s lined up on his desk berating them for failing him, yet again.
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Aug 31, 2016 02:33
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Jimbozig posted:I wasn't, though? I just received my book today - I think I was one of the late ones. Yeah, I haven't gotten my book yet, though I got my tracking notice weeks ago. Like you, I have to wait through US-Canada customs, and like you I learned some time ago not to sweat it.
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Aug 31, 2016 02:49
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Jimbozig posted:I wasn't, though? I just received my book today - I think I was one of the late ones. Or maybe there are still more people waiting longer. I don't remember when or if I got any tracking info - I don't even bother looking at tracking info from the US, because it usually goes like "Your package made it to the border and then ... ???" until it reaches my doorstep. Hey, the thing is that when this happens and people not unreasonably send you, the project creator, messages to the effect of "so what's the deal here?" and your response is basically "shut the gently caress up prole, you'll get it when you get it" then it turns out that you are in fact a massive rear end in a top hat and "but Canadian customs" isn't actually relevant to the larger problem.
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Aug 31, 2016 03:10
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jivjov posted:I would have PMd this, but it doesn't look like you have them; I might be cautiously interested in buying your new-printing copy of Gold off you (if you aren't sending it back to Luke for a refund)! sure, not like i need a third. lemme figure out shipping first.
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Aug 31, 2016 03:23
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Kai Tave posted:Hey, the thing is that when this happens and people not unreasonably send you, the project creator, messages to the effect of "so what's the deal here?" and your response is basically "shut the gently caress up prole, you'll get it when you get it" then it turns out that you are in fact a massive rear end in a top hat and "but Canadian customs" isn't actually relevant to the larger problem. Yeah, I agree. Nuns didn't quote that part of my post, but I said that being rude to backers is bad business and uncool.
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Aug 31, 2016 03:27
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WaywardWoodwose posted:sure, not like i need a third. lemme figure out shipping first. Cool; I don't get paid til Friday anyway.
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Aug 31, 2016 03:27
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Jimbozig posted:Yeah, I agree. Nuns didn't quote that part of my post, but I said that being rude to backers is bad business and uncool. i'm sure he was capable of reading your original post since it was only three above mine and one of the in-between posts was his own post, but it would be a shame to have not and miss that excellent subtle plug of your own game Nuns with Guns fucked around with this message at 03:45 on Aug 31, 2016 |
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Aug 31, 2016 03:42
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