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Kai Tave posted:Hey, the thing is that when this happens and people not unreasonably send you, the project creator, messages to the effect of "so what's the deal here?" and your response is basically "shut the gently caress up prole, you'll get it when you get it" then it turns out that you are in fact a massive rear end in a top hat and "but Canadian customs" isn't actually relevant to the larger problem. God I hate this loving hobby.
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Aug 31, 2016 04:51
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WaywardWoodwose posted:I got my package from Crane the other day and when i popped it open, found out i had accidentally ordered another copy of Burning Wheel Gold by mistake ( I just clicked the first thing that gave me A book and was done with it), when i already own two already. I know it's my own fault, but I am still so mad at that loving obtuse poo poo he put out that made me stay away from his kickstarter page, and ignore his updates. grassy gnoll posted:Send that poo poo right back and tell him to replace it with what you actually wanted, and make it clear the fuckup was caused by his word vomit. Seriously. Say what you will about the rest of the Kickstarter, but the pledge reward descriptions are crystal clear -- and the one that gives you a copy of BWG instead of the Codex is the second one. I agree, though -- you should probably get in touch with him and tell him you accidentally mis-pledged and ask for an exchange.
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Aug 31, 2016 06:29
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Yeah, unlike invisible sun he actually made his rewards tiers clear as to what you were going to get. However he also uses his dumb wizardspeak all the time, and the reason why he was refunding people is that once you're refunded you're no longer a backer and you can no longer communicate with him and call him out on his bullshit.
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Aug 31, 2016 06:45
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Nuns with Guns posted:i'm sure he was capable of reading your original post since it was only three above mine and one of the in-between posts was his own post, but it would be a shame to have not and miss that excellent subtle plug of your own game What's with the weird aggression? Kai replied as though I was defending Luke's rudeness, and I clarified that I wasn't and had, in fact, condemned it. There is no disagreement on that point from anyone, at least in this thread.
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Aug 31, 2016 07:18
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I think my point of contention is that it isn't really outlandish for people to ask where their stuff is and/or what's going on with shipping just because for folks living in various countries that's simply how they do, especially given how squirrelly so many Kickstarters get and especially if you have conflicting reports of some people receiving tracking info but no goods and some people receiving goods but no tracking info. Unless the people inquiring about that sort of thing are being exceptionally rude, and that has been known to happen but I'm skeptical that's what was happening here, anyone running a Kickstarter really needs to mentally prepare themselves to field questions like that or else maybe they shouldn't be funding their pet projects on other peoples' dimes. Like okay, I agree at the bare minimum that "deride customers in your head, not to their face" is the superior approach given a choice only between those two options, but at the same time I don't see why he feels the need to deride his customers at all in this case.
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Aug 31, 2016 07:27
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Can we have an example of this wizard speak?
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Aug 31, 2016 13:55
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LeSquide posted:Can we have an example of this wizard speak? Just read brought the project page for the Codex project. The entire thing is written "in character" as some kind of arcane wizard
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Aug 31, 2016 14:03
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LeSquide posted:Can we have an example of this wizard speak? Here you go: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/burningwheel/the-burning-wheel-codex/posts/1615281
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Aug 31, 2016 14:04
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Did Luke Crane just not play RPGs in the 90s?
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Aug 31, 2016 15:08
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I've considered looking into Burning Wheel off and on throughout the years, as it regularly crops up as sounding like something my group might like. Knowing now that engaging with it involves having to wade through endless dumb renfaire speak, I can safely cross it off the list.
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Aug 31, 2016 15:55
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LeSquide posted:Can we have an example of this wizard speak? AlphaDog posted:Here you go: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/burningwheel/the-burning-wheel-codex/posts/1615281 Here are some more: Re: Numerous people asking about tracking numbers. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/burningwheel/the-burning-wheel-codex/comments?cursor=14258407#comment-14258406 Luke Crane posted:Silence. Re: The post AlphaDog linked above is confusing. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/burningwheel/the-burning-wheel-codex/comments?cursor=13831682#comment-13831681 Luke Crane posted:The book is closed. No signatures shall it further accept. Were you too late to sign, then bereft you shall be for no imp shall be dispatched to your domicile bearing package precious. This exchange: a backer posted:I'd still like to know if we can add a book without losing a signed copy. Luke Crane posted:Creator Superbacker on February 5, 2016 a backer posted:Well, at least people will be happy that you answered in plain English! Luke Crane posted:Tread lightly, magus.
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Aug 31, 2016 15:57
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Thanks, Luke.
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I didn't know Luke Crane was that guy in the robe who got owned by Triumph the Insult Comic Dog.
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Aug 31, 2016 15:58
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Jimbozig posted:??? I apologize for the sass guddamn that was a shameless plug though but it's not a very strong condemnation if all you take away from this is that he should have shittalked them in private like you would've.
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Aug 31, 2016 16:07
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Desiden posted:I've considered looking into Burning Wheel off and on throughout the years, as it regularly crops up as sounding like something my group might like. Knowing now that engaging with it involves having to wade through endless dumb renfaire speak, I can safely cross it off the list. Reading Burning Wheel back in the early 2000s opened my eyes to a lot of story-game design stuff that I'd never really thought about before and I was much impressed. I still think beliefs and instincts are great tech. Playing it was kind of an exercise in frustration. It's a game which rewards system mastery -- just like the D&D it pulls away from so strongly -- and as such it's entirely possible to 'build to concept' and end up with a woefully ineffective character even in their supposed area of expertise. I also have issues with the skill list, difficulties, the way circles and resources work, the social conflict mini-game, wounds and healing, and the fact that wizards still win at everything. Mutter grumble curse.
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Aug 31, 2016 16:07
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Nuns with Guns posted:it's not a very strong condemnation if all you take away from this is that he should have shittalked them in private like you would've. Not in private. Inside my head. When I'm stressed, I frequently have rude or mean thoughts about everyone, including myself. I think that's pretty normal. I generally manage to keep them to myself, and I feel like a jerk when I mess up and snap at someone.
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Aug 31, 2016 16:28
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potatocubed posted:Reading Burning Wheel back in the early 2000s opened my eyes to a lot of story-game design stuff that I'd never really thought about before and I was much impressed. I still think beliefs and instincts are great tech. Playing it was kind of an exercise in frustration. It's a game which rewards system mastery -- just like the D&D it pulls away from so strongly -- and as such it's entirely possible to 'build to concept' and end up with a woefully ineffective character even in their supposed area of expertise. Luckily the concepts in it that were once pretty novel are showing up in a lot of other games.
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Aug 31, 2016 18:49
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potatocubed posted:Reading Burning Wheel back in the early 2000s opened my eyes to a lot of story-game design stuff that I'd never really thought about before and I was much impressed. I still think beliefs and instincts are great tech. Playing it was kind of an exercise in frustration. It's a game which rewards system mastery -- just like the D&D it pulls away from so strongly -- and as such it's entirely possible to 'build to concept' and end up with a woefully ineffective character even in their supposed area of expertise. Yeah, the biggest surprise for me from our game (aside from the high chance of failing to draw a stick figure) was how a wizard's high Will just trivially made them better at social things than other characters, spellcasting gave them more opportunities to advance it, and then they also had magic things to do. I had ideas sketched out for splitting the two mental attributes into four to match physical and resolve that problem, but it's likely more effort than it's worth.
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Aug 31, 2016 19:01
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AlphaDog posted:Here you go: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/burningwheel/the-burning-wheel-codex/posts/1615281 Is he the same guy that writes Penny-Arcade? This sounds like his crap.
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Aug 31, 2016 21:07
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Nope, Jerry (Tycho) and Luke are in fact two different subspecies of Authorus Arrogantus.
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Aug 31, 2016 21:19
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FordCQC posted:Is he the same guy that writes Penny-Arcade? This sounds like his crap. No, but Krahulik was a fan of it last I checked. (It's been a long time since I followed PA, tho.)
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Aug 31, 2016 21:22
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Why are you guys acting like it's a huge moral failing to be a jerk? (Major nerd social fallacy poo poo coming up in this thread) My prediction for the Luke Crane discussion, endless talk that wrings out all possibility of nuance and at the end a firm agreement by all that he's the literal devil or the moon.
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Aug 31, 2016 22:22
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There is nothing wrong with being a jerk, so long as you're fine with people not liking you very much. It is a dick move to refuse to sell someone something because he asks when he will receive it, but this is legal also. glad we could get that sorted out.
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Aug 31, 2016 22:30
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I remember when a friend was sharing his then-weird gaming finds with me, back when Burning Whee and Dogs in the Vineyard were newish and provocative. He showed me a page of character sheet systems or something, and I told him it was even more ridiculous than the copy of Synnibar he'd mailed some time before. I stick to that assessment.
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Aug 31, 2016 22:39
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fez_machine posted:Why are you guys acting like it's a huge moral failing to be a jerk? You should put your best face forward when doing business. If your best face is a nonsense wizard who gets mad when people don't understand your nonsense, there may be some moral failing mixed in with your business failing. I don't know him well enough to think it's a huge moral failing, but it's also not good. Also, he is the devil moon.
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Aug 31, 2016 22:44
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fez_machine posted:Why are you guys acting like it's a huge moral failing to be a jerk? Ostracizers are Evil and Friends Accept Me As I Am?? Get em time travellers from 2003. Honestly I personally am not going to buy a thick-rear end tome of rules from a man roleplaying as a wizard because I already own 1e, but its OK if you do. If I was going to buy it and he enbanished me for wanting him to break character and tell me where my drat book is, I would be pretty put out as well.
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Aug 31, 2016 22:52
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Why do people hate assholes? Must be some nerd fallacy thing.
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Aug 31, 2016 23:24
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Kai Tave posted:Why do people hate assholes? Must be some nerd fallacy thing. I think it is because of their seemingly endless stream of poo poo
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Aug 31, 2016 23:43
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fez_machine posted:Why are you guys acting like it's a huge moral failing to be a jerk? I don't think you know what the nerd social fallacies are.
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Sep 1, 2016 00:16
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Terrible Opinions posted:I don't think you know what the nerd social fallacies are. A good opinion
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Sep 1, 2016 01:20
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Bieeardo posted:I remember when a friend was sharing his then-weird gaming finds with me, back when Burning Whee
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Sep 1, 2016 03:07
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fez_machine posted:Why are you guys acting like it's a huge moral failing to be a jerk? I know we're on the internet and irony is really cool, but in real life it doesn't matter how logical and talented you are if you burn every bridge you come across.
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Sep 1, 2016 03:59
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Ominous Jazz posted:I know we're on the internet and irony is really cool, but in real life it doesn't matter how logical and talented you are if you burn every bridge you come across. Well I mean the great thing about the traditional tabletop game publishing industry is you can be as big of a dickhead as you want and still have a cadre of loyal fans and supportive peers ready to zealously defend you from any criticism no matter how well-deserved it might be. Monte Cook is in no way suffering from publishing games with things like the Elemental Plane of Native American Stereotypes or "we call these people beaners," whatsisname the Zak S defender guy won't lose any appreciable business for throwing his friend under the bus, Matt McFarland got to call people who criticized his baby bigots and MRAs and probably didn't even get a slap on the wrist for it, even GMS has people willing to go to bat for him despite him being five years late on a lovely d20-alike and practically burning every professional bridge he's come across. Luke Crane is in absolutely no danger of suffering any serious repercussions over this. It doesn't mean he isn't acting like an insufferable jerk for no reason, but hey, if there aren't any appreciable consequences for your actions then I guess you might as well do whatever you want.
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Sep 1, 2016 04:09
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Kai Tave posted:even GMS has people willing to go to bat for him despite him being five years late on a lovely d20-alike and practically burning every professional bridge he's come across. L\
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Sep 1, 2016 04:16
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Halloween Jack posted:You should get that checked out. The doctor ended up telling me that ochre jelly wasn't a toy. 
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Sep 1, 2016 04:30
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It's not really fair to compare Luke's curt "shut up and be patient" reply to the insane GMS conga line of deadlines and excuses, to a literal racial slur, or worst of all to a serial harasser. But I do agree with your point that you can be a huge jerk and still have people defend you - that is certainly true.
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Sep 1, 2016 04:34
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FMguru posted:Hahaha, we're now up to fifty-eight blown deadlines for the delivery of Far West. Comedy gold, right here.
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Sep 1, 2016 07:38
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Kai Tave posted:the Elemental Plane of Native American Stereotypes
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Sep 1, 2016 07:43
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Asimo posted:This is your regular reminder that the denizens of said plane literally have no souls. Now, now, that's not quite true. Only 85% of the people in that plane have no souls. (They lack "the spark", which is what makes you an actual person and not a p-zombie.) I suspect the whole "spark" concept was intended to let PCs interact with fiction-based planes like "Barsoom" without being upset at any of the NPCs dying due to their actions. Boy did they gently caress it up, though.
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Sep 1, 2016 08:42
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Ah, the Amber dilemma. "Every world in existence is a lesser reflection of Castle Amber, the one true and only truly real reality! Why, yes, it's populated entirely by white psuedo-Euro nobility, why do you ask...?"
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Sep 1, 2016 09:00
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Well, their dad was born when grandpa did the nasty with a shiny horse, so that part actually kinda fits.
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Sep 1, 2016 09:50
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