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Celexi posted:People should really stop confusing Brazil as some left paradise or some such, the European left compared to anything "left" in Brazil would be basically Lenin communism. and democrats far left. Brazil is a really quite a right wing place, whenever i read news on Brazil i thank the gods that we split up from Brazil. What country are you from?
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Aug 31, 2016 21:48
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Portugal
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Aug 31, 2016 21:50
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Badger of Basra posted:Enrique Peña Nieto must be really, really stupid.
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Aug 31, 2016 22:48
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Celexi posted:Portugal I was under the impression that history was reversed. That Brazil used to be just Portugal's puppet.
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Aug 31, 2016 23:07
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punk rebel ecks posted:I was under the impression that history was reversed. That Brazil used to be just Portugal's puppet. I don't think either was a puppet, the royal family moved to brazil around the time of spanish invasion , when they returned the one left behind decided he didnt want to answer to his parents and made it independent.
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Aug 31, 2016 23:10
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Bit of context: Portugal colonized and conquered Brazil, Napoleon happened, Brits evacuated the Portuguese royal family to Brazil, the royals brought the metropolitan administrative apparatus to the colony, promoted Brazil to the United Kingdom of Portugal, Brazil and Algarve, Napoleon lost, the Portuguese wanted to turn Brazil back into a colony, Brazilians got pissed, the prince Pedro I felt more in tune with the Brazilians and told the Portuguese he wouldn't go back to Portugal, a while later led the independence, however poo poo got screaming hot and the Portuguese just had a revolution demanding the restoration of the monarchy and Pedro I went "oops sry gtg k thx bai", leaving his baby son the throne of Brazil while a fuckton of regional revolts got going. early imperial brazil 101
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Aug 31, 2016 23:47
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Badger of Basra posted:Enrique Peña Nieto must be really, really stupid. https://twitter.com/EPN/status/771118159654891520?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw Cuqueado por El Papá Naranja. Triste!
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Sep 1, 2016 00:44
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Did someone tag me wrong? I mean I didn't say anything bad about Latin America in this thread...at all.
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Sep 1, 2016 02:23
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so they're actually getting rid of dilma?
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Sep 1, 2016 09:16
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icantfindaname posted:so they're actually getting rid of dilma? Already did as of yesterday.
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Sep 1, 2016 09:52
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Badger of Basra posted:Enrique Peña Nieto must be really, really stupid. My guess would be that he expected Hillary to go, and Donald to refuse to go. This of course backfired hilariously, as things tend to do when you're Enrique Peña Nieto.
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Sep 1, 2016 13:10
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Celexi posted:I don't think either was a puppet, the royal family moved to brazil around the time of spanish invasion , when they returned the one left behind decided he didnt want to answer to his parents and made it independent. It's fascinating the different take you guys have on this, I never heard it before... Or even thought about it under Portugal's perspective. (I'm not trying to sound smug or condescending)
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Sep 1, 2016 14:58
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I mean seriously, this isn't cool. I haven't even made a statement about Latin America and I get an avatar and tag change? Money is tight right now, I don't know if I should spend the money to change it back. 
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Sep 1, 2016 17:07
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Celexi posted:I don't think either was a puppet, the royal family moved to brazil around the time of spanish invasion , when they returned the one left behind decided he didnt want to answer to his parents and made it independent. Transmetropolitan posted:Bit of context: The monarchy went to Brasil instead of the African colonies, Azores or Madeira because by that time in history Brazil was this gigantic powerhouse being under control of a country smaller than pernambuco. By installing the monarchy in Brasil the royal house would get a proper grip on a colony that they deeply feared would flee from their grasp all the while being much closer to the locals to assist them in solving their problems (mostly by musket fire but wtvr). That's why it took so long for the monarchy to return to Portugal. It's not that they didn't want to return to Lisbon, it's just that creating such a tremendous distance between the royal house and Brazil again would most likely risk the bond for good. Dom Pedro did not exactly rebel against the king, everything clearly points out that the "monarchist rebellion" was a way to channel the revolutionary and emancipation streght of the locals into something that could still be very closely tied to Portugal. So tied that eventually when D.Miguel led an ultra reactionary movement in Portugal to destroy the liberal values of the constitutional monarchy and reform a new absolutist regime there was a security measure against it by having a proper liberal in Brasil to come back and take care of business. Portugal and Brasil's fates were still very much intwertwined for the rest of the 19th century. Portugal still based a large portion of it's economy in the wealth that still poured from Brasil. Most 19th century revolts in Portugal occur when the belts get tightened due to some large shitstorm erupting in BRasil. Anyway: 
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Sep 1, 2016 17:29
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Just in case you still thought that coup was to strong a word for what happened in Brazil, a new law has been implemented that allows the budget maneuvers that Dilma was accused of.
joepinetree fucked around with this message at 04:03 on Sep 3, 2016 |
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Sep 2, 2016 23:35
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I will say just by looking at a clip from Temer's speech he does seem very much on the economic-right on the scale internationally (and probably from the rest of Latin America) as well. The PMDB is an opportunist party at its heart, but it does seem the chips are down they currently moved to a deeply right-wing economic position. For Brazil he may be moderate, but from anyone from the outside looking it, it looks reactionary. It also pokes a hole in the "Lula" method of reform, ultimately a retrenchment from the right is going to likely to move turn many of the positive (but still often limited) changes that occurred. That said, I am continually interested in people celebrating the "end" of the pink wave in Latin America. Isn't it evident that the pink wave happened in the first place because center-right to right governments across Latin America left large portions of their population behind in the first place? Lula attempted to address the issue with gradual reform but seem to be a apart of a political system that was always hostile to even the most modest changes. The PSUV has been a miserable failure in Venezuela, and while certainly the legacy of the left and the center-left in Latin America is more mixed, but at the same time it seems impossible actual be happy with a return to the right when so little has been changed. Moreover, the support for those governments was honest because many people honestly desired change and it is hard to believe a return to the status quo is going to actually address inequality. I guess the hope is to look at the failure of both Chavez and (very likely) of Lula but that is probably going to be a difficult task without just giving up and going third-way. Ardennes fucked around with this message at 23:55 on Sep 2, 2016 |
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Sep 2, 2016 23:53
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joepinetree posted:Just in case you still thought that coup was to strong a word for what happened in Brazil, a new law had been implemented that allows the budget maneuvers that Dilma was accused of. That is amazing.
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Sep 3, 2016 03:34
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joepinetree posted:Just in case you still thought that coup was to strong a word for what happened in Brazil, a new law had been implemented that allows the budget maneuvers that Dilma was accused of. Yeah I cackled like mad at that. Astounding.
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Sep 3, 2016 03:37
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Not even the writers of House of Cards could handle this poo poo (Also, lots of burnt stuff right in front of my place)
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Sep 3, 2016 05:27
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*Reads south-american newspapers* Well, it seems "left" (lol) is out of fashion, now it's all about the right. Thankfully I moved to Europe wher- *reads european newspapers* gently caress
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Sep 4, 2016 14:33
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Pochoclo posted:*Reads south-american newspapers*
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Sep 4, 2016 20:06
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Pochoclo posted:*Reads south-american newspapers* Well, it seems "left" (lol) is out of fashion, now it's all about the right. Thankfully I moved to Europe wher- *reads european newspapers* gently caress you can move to
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Sep 4, 2016 20:14
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Kurtofan posted:you can move to Kurdistan?
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Sep 4, 2016 20:19
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Podemos is polling at respectable figures in Spain if political deadlock is your cup of tea.
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Sep 4, 2016 20:44
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Friendly Humour posted:Podemos is polling at respectable figures in Spain if political deadlock is your cup of tea. I've heard form people that they are essentially Venezuela's PSUV (Chavez's party) but for Spain. Not sure how true that is.
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Sep 5, 2016 03:28
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punk rebel ecks posted:I've heard form people that they are essentially Venezuela's PSUV (Chavez's party) but for Spain. Not sure how true that is. It isn't, but I suppose all anti-establishment parties are the same for a right-winger. Their political program is essentially "70's style european social democracy was cool and good also hang rajoy".
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Sep 5, 2016 05:13
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So a BBC journo got beaten by riot copsquote:Felipe Souza on what looks like a phone camera, in the street wearing a helmet Funny how European media starts caring about the violence only when it's one of theirs who's at the receiving end of a cop truncheon.
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Sep 5, 2016 10:05
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Friendly Humour posted:It isn't, but I suppose all anti-establishment parties are the same for a right-winger. Their political program is essentially "70's style european social democracy was cool and good also hang rajoy". They did get money from Chavez, just not recently. And there is a clear influence from PSUV because Spain is one of the most attractive countries for them to run to once the country collapses since nobody in the Venezuelan government knows how to speak English properly, so, they want somebody willing to save their asses in charge. Half of Diosdado Cabello's family lives in Spain already.
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Sep 5, 2016 13:28
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Friendly Humour posted:It isn't, but I suppose all anti-establishment parties are the same for a right-winger. Their political program is essentially "70's style european social democracy was cool and good also hang rajoy". To be fair it was a Venezuelan living in Spain who told me this. In his own words: "Podemos is the same party as the PSUV, just different actors."
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Sep 5, 2016 14:10
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Venezuelan exiles are second only to Cuban in worminess, do not trust them.
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Sep 5, 2016 15:23
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fnox posted:They did get money from Chavez, just not recently. And there is a clear influence from PSUV because Spain is one of the most attractive countries for them to run to once the country collapses since nobody in the Venezuelan government knows how to speak English properly, so, they want somebody willing to save their asses in charge. Half of Diosdado Cabello's family lives in Spain already. Getting funding from someone doesn't mean loving anything, mate. loving hell, I don't even know half the people funding my research team. punk rebel ecks posted:To be fair it was a Venezuelan living in Spain who told me this. I think I can guess his political leanings. loving hell, that is some tea party level of partisanship.
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Sep 5, 2016 16:30
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i'm glad you all got into that subject before I could, hehe, since I can't give Venezuelans poo poo for that but I also get this overwhelming "coxinha" vibe emanating from the ones that can bail out.
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Sep 5, 2016 17:34
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I'm not right wing, but I know very well that PSUV has a direct interest in Podemos that they don't mask, and Rafael Isea, a high ranking PSUV defector confirmed to have implied a significant amount of money being sent over to them. I know that this seems sensationalist because the right wing in Spain loves to push this agenda, but it's actually true.Friendly Humour posted:Getting funding from someone doesn't mean loving anything, mate. loving hell, I don't even know half the people funding my research team. Lmao, of course not. Because it's only a coincidence global warming deniers happen to be funded by oil companies and Koch industries. What are you talking about? Them taking money from Chavez, even if it was 5 years ago means A LOT, no one who has taken money from PSUV can be trusted.
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Sep 5, 2016 18:08
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Doesn't the PSUV donate money to practically every leftist political party? Serious question.
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Sep 5, 2016 18:59
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punk rebel ecks posted:Doesn't the PSUV donate money to practically every leftist political party? Serious question. Nope, most parties know better, and they've lost a lot of allies in South America in Paraguay, Argentina and Brazil, while their remaining friends Bolivia and Ecuador are themselves weakened. PSUV's range of influences are very strictly limited now that they've lost most ideological support. It wasn't long ago when British leftists praised the Bolivarian revolution, but where are they now? PSUV's other friends are Cuba obviously, Caricom nations, China and Russia (to a degree, they've distanced in recent years).
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Sep 5, 2016 19:16
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fnox posted:Nope, most parties know better, and they've lost a lot of allies in South America in Paraguay, Argentina and Brazil, while their remaining friends Bolivia and Ecuador are themselves weakened. PSUV's range of influences are very strictly limited now that they've lost most ideological support. It wasn't long ago when British leftists praised the Bolivarian revolution, but where are they now? PSUV's other friends are Cuba obviously, Caricom nations, China and Russia (to a degree, they've distanced in recent years). Yeah but five years ago they still showed the support to those countries that no abandoned them I believe.
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Sep 5, 2016 19:20
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punk rebel ecks posted:I've heard form people that they are essentially Venezuela's PSUV (Chavez's party) but for Spain. Not sure how true that is. Wasn't Podemos under investigation for receiving money from Venezuela? And their leader used to write speeches for Chavez too.
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Sep 5, 2016 19:23
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fnox posted:Nope, most parties know better, and they've lost a lot of allies in South America in Paraguay, Argentina and Brazil, while their remaining friends Bolivia and Ecuador are themselves weakened. PSUV's range of influences are very strictly limited now that they've lost most ideological support. It wasn't long ago when British leftists praised the Bolivarian revolution, but where are they now? PSUV's other friends are Cuba obviously, Caricom nations, China and Russia (to a degree, they've distanced in recent years). The Kirchners and the Frente Amplio received millions from Venezuela. Either directly or masked under suspicious activities. Like setting up a company to export books to Venezuela and then that company donates money to the campaign.
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Sep 5, 2016 19:25
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Polidoro posted:The Kirchners and the Frente Amplio received millions from Venezuela. Either directly or masked under suspicious activities. Like setting up a company to export books to Venezuela and then that company donates money to the campaign. The intention for most of these bribes is to be able to get items, even regular foodstuffs like milk, in bulk. The government needs (or at least needed, apparently) those for campaigning in Venezuela, poo poo like Mercal and Tu Casa Equipada are wonderfully populist measures that get them votes at the expense of actual economic development. As far as I'm aware of though, Podemos is the only party in Europe they have direct ties to that don't follow this scheme.
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Sep 5, 2016 19:59
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fnox posted:The intention for most of these bribes is to be able to get items, even regular foodstuffs like milk, in bulk. The government needs (or at least needed, apparently) those for campaigning in Venezuela, poo poo like Mercal and Tu Casa Equipada are wonderfully populist measures that get them votes at the expense of actual economic development. As far as I'm aware of though, Podemos is the only party in Europe they have direct ties to that don't follow this scheme. What the gently caress are you on about? Anyway, assuming a secret deal exists with exactly zero evidence is so retarded, I am amazed I'm actually having to explain basic logic.
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Sep 5, 2016 20:25
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