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There was an initial tweet from a guy that was misinterpreting SpaceX that it was pad hardware that caused the explosion. That's not to say it is farfetched that something in the fueling apparatus hosed up. At present there has been no statement from SpaceX stating a cause beyond that it wasn't from intentional ignition since it was still 3 minutes from test firing. Also it definitely happened on or near the second stage from the video of it.
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Sep 1, 2016 22:43
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Bet it was sabotage from the ULA. 
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Sep 1, 2016 22:51
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Cyrano4747 posted:Something something fueling and support system something rocket science. Something something UDMH something red fuming nitric acid something Mitrofan Nedelin. 
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Sep 1, 2016 23:17
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TTerrible posted:During a launch sometime this year, I remember them calling out the spherical LOX Tank visible on stream as having been there since Apollo and they were going to replace it. That LOX tank is crazy far away from the pad, it seems really dubious that it could have contributed. LC-39: LOX and LH tanks spaced very far apart. 
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Sep 2, 2016 00:05
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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Yeah whatever happened was either on Stage 2 or RIGHT next to it.
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Sep 2, 2016 00:10
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PittTheElder posted:That LOX tank is crazy far away from the pad, it seems really dubious that it could have contributed. Yeah, sorry bit of a tangent. I just saw people talking about ground equipment and dumped that pretty irrelevant half remembered fact 
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Sep 2, 2016 00:14
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I managed to get a screen grab from when it ignited, it does almost looks like it was on the tower but could also be something venting from the rocket:
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Sep 2, 2016 00:21
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I guess they are saying it occurred during fueling now? https://twitter.com/pbdes/status/771409425475174400 That sucks.
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Sep 2, 2016 03:59
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Whoever did this I would like to thank them. I read that an AMOS-6 satellite mainly leased by Facebook was the main casualty.
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Sep 2, 2016 04:13
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I bet it was Tom at Myspace.
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Sep 2, 2016 04:32
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I liked the part where the payload falls off the burning stack and is all like "lol peace out" before it hits the pad and makes a really cool explosion. The station keeping/maneuver thrusters on a satellite (or more likely third stage, if that's under the shroud) are no joke themselves.
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Sep 2, 2016 04:56
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Wow those fuckers really DO fly low..
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Sep 2, 2016 05:30
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Akion posted:I guess they are saying it occurred during fueling now? Launch insurance. I mean, I guess there's no reason why not, but I'd never thought of it before.
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Sep 2, 2016 06:12
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StandardVC10 posted:Launch insurance. I mean, I guess there's no reason why not, but I'd never thought of it before. There is insurance for everything. And  @ "E-Musk"
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Sep 2, 2016 06:28
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StandardVC10 posted:Launch insurance. I mean, I guess there's no reason why not, but I'd never thought of it before. My vague understanding is that every little event that happens in the satellite process is separately insured. Insurance for attaching the satellite to the rocket, insurance for orbital insertion after detaching from the launch vehicle, everything. I'd be really shocked if this wasn't covered by something - it would be a monumental screw-up on the part of the customer.
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Sep 2, 2016 14:36
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Well a week late but here's my pic dump from my two museum trip last weekend. Apologies in advance for the phone camera photos, hopefully you get the idea. Upon going over what photos I have, most of them are bad and I didn't take nearly enough. Please use your imagination accordingly. I visited the Fleet Air Arm museum in Nowra, NSW and the Historical Aircraft Restoration Society at Illawarra Airport, NSW. Mainly it was a good excuse for me to go somewhere a little warmer and sleep in a tent but I though I would check out these places while I was at it. I've tried to focus on planes that might be unique or unusual to what you might see in the Northern Hemisphere. Fleet Air Arm up first, even though I visited it second. It's a pretty traditional sort of museum I guess, everything is roped off and there are some vaguely informative plaques. There was a fair bit of stuff about Helicopters that I neglected to take many photos of and none that were good.           Ex RAAF and RNZAF Two seat Skyhawk. They had a single seater too.  Sea Fury. The main reason I came here. Peak piston fighter    Who packed this? Is there NO food? Oh well.  Not such a bad spot  Next up is HARS. HARS is not a traditional museum. HARS is at a working airport and you wear an orange vest because that will save you right? Every time you walk somewhere you are in danger of bashing your head on a 60 year old pitot tube or something. You know how most museums have roped off everything and you can't get up close and personal? HARS gives no fucks. Sure, go sit in that. Climb though that. Kids? No problems. It really blew me away. The last museum I went to prior to this was the Intrepid and despite it having three of my favourite aircraft ever, I walked away underwhelmed. Here I got to sit in a Canberra  I'd go back in a heartbeat, it's compulsory to have a guide, and the group I was with had a nice, knowledgeable guide but he skipped over a lot of stuff I could have spent a lot longer looking at. Didn't mention the Hunter once, we never saw the Mirage or the two Vampires except from afar, didn't talk about the S3 and glossed over the Avon Sabre. I've missed out so much in my photos, they have 3 Neptunes, one you can climb all over and through. A flying Catalina, a couple of DC-3's which fly and you can walk around in. There's a Cobra gunship, a Wirraway. A Hein that was pulled out of the jungle in PNG, it's only a partial fuselage but next to it is the replica some guy is building based on the wreck and much more I'm forgetting. It's an amazing collection and you can fondle pretty much all of it.      Canberra cockpit. It's cramped. This was a training model so no perspex nose. I have no idea how they would have got in there anyway.  Paint job  Avon  That's the only decent pic I got of a Neptune. I was too busy trying to climb over it and competing with two <10 year old girls for cockpit time.  I was SO gutted. Usually you can sit in the FB-111 but the stairs had not made it out today. One of the other guides was ex-RAAF, flown on both the Neptune and FB-111, would love to have heard his stories.    This polarising plane was rescued from the boneyard in the 80's I believe. Still flies.    They have a pretty sweet 747 as well, I didn't take a lot of photos because, who hasn't seen or been on one? That's my little silver shopping trolley in the shade of the tail though.  Well now! Sadly they weren't, however the staff made up for it... 
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Sep 2, 2016 14:53
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B4Ctom1 posted:Wow those fuckers really DO fly low.. slothrop posted:Well a week late but here's my pic dump from my two museum trip last weekend. Apologies in advance for the phone camera photos, hopefully you get the idea. Upon going over what photos I have, most of them are bad and I didn't take nearly enough. Please use your imagination accordingly. Speaking of mirages and museums, the Yorkshire Museum is gonna get a Mirage IV.
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Sep 2, 2016 15:21
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Nice pictures! I had no idea the Australians operated the Gannet. Got a question in case anybody knows the answer about Australian defense. Canada pre-WW2 used the mortibis free market solution for its air force; the RCAF was a tiny cadre that could be expanded in wartime, and it was always assumed the market would provide aircraft. In the event, however, it turned out Canada couldn't buy aircraft from the USA and Britain, at least not in the types and numbers it needed because, duh, Britain and the USA had maxed their aircraft production to meet their own needs. Canada did have a cadet branch of the British aircraft industry to meet its prewar domestic needs, but that was obviously fairly small. So while Canadian personal in the RCAF were eventually equipped, that obviously took awhile. The hardest hit place was in Canada itself, where aircraft were needed to fly cover for convoys and patrol for U-boats, but only planes fit for the Island of Misfit Aircraft were available, and even then the numbers (to say nothing of capabilities) were inadequate. German U boats were effective in Canadian waters for an embarrassingly long time. (There's more home-grown Canadian incompetence in that story but "no good airplanes" was a major factor.) Anyway, the lesson post war Canada took from all this was "build up your native industrial capacity, yeh hoser." Which was in a large part a succsess in aircraft for about 20 years. A long walk here, but I know Australia suffered similar problems in WW2. Did they try the same thing post-war?
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Sep 2, 2016 15:41
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I'm certainly no expert but there was some attempt during WWII to develop indigenous designs such as the Wirraway, Boomerang and later the Kangaroo. None of these were successful designs in terms of production numbers, largely due to the increasing availability of American planes. The CAC and GAF did produce licensed versions of overseas designs during the war - Beaufighters and possibly Mustangs (not sure on the production time frame here). What this led to was a willingness to build overseas designs locally. Much of this I suspect was political - keep jobs in Australia etc. The Avon Sabre was produced locally, regarded by some to be the best of the Sabre variants. I believe there was local Canberra, Mirage III and even F/A-18 production. Not sure if this answers your question exactly - there weren't really any indigenous designs during the Cold War period excepting target drones, one of which is pictured in my post above, the Jindivik. As I said, I'm really no expert on this so I'll happily be corrected by someone more knowledgeable
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Sep 2, 2016 15:57
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Nebakenezzer posted:Nice pictures! I had no idea the Australians operated the Gannet. The RCN`s immense expansion during the war years and the teething problems that brought were also responsible for the permissive environment that the u-boats found in Canadian waters, particularly in the Gulf of St. Laurence. As I recall, we were told in late 1942 to basically take a few months off, train ourselves and leave the ASW to the big boys in the meantime. It was embarassing, but necessary. Incidentally, the RCN experienced much the same problems in the early war with new construction as the RCAF: it needed corvettes and destroyers, but Canadian yards had been flooded with British orders in the time it took for Canada to get around to placing orders of its own. I think it was up to a year before Canadian yards were building ships for the RCN. Regarding RCAF equipment: our bomber squadrons had a tendency to be given RAF hand-me-downs so you see Canadian squadrons flying Halifaxes for some time while the RAF squadrons switched to Lancasters. This didn`t mean that Canadians left their aircraft in a stock configuration; they had quite a reputation for unauthorized modifications to improve their planes in a variety of ways. I had a latin tutor in high school who flew a Lancaster during the war for the RAF and his squadron shared a field with various Canadian units. He remembered seeing quite a few field modifications to the Halifax in particular, with crews cutting holes in the bellies of their aicraft and improvising mounts to allow a .50 cal to poke out and surprise any German night fighters trying to get at the unprotected underside (particularly those equipped with the schragemusik autocannons). He also recalled seeing a Canadian Lancaster, one of the earliest ones delivered to the RCAF, sporting a 20mm Hispano in the place of its read quad .303 machine guns. The crew felt that the .303s were rather anemic for the chore of fending off inquisitive German fighters and so traded a case of whiskey for the cannon and rigged a mount for it. I can't imagine how unpleasant a surprise that would have been.
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Sep 2, 2016 16:01
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Nebakenezzer posted:cadet branch of the British aircraft industry This is my new favorite turn of phrase. 
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Sep 2, 2016 17:05
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Captain von Trapp posted:My vague understanding is that every little event that happens in the satellite process is separately insured. Insurance for attaching the satellite to the rocket, insurance for orbital insertion after detaching from the launch vehicle, everything. I'd be really shocked if this wasn't covered by something - it would be a monumental screw-up on the part of the customer. Yeah, since all of those can have wildly different risk profiles, and the potential results can vary from "Your satellite got a scratch that costs $10,000,000 to fix" to "poo poo's hosed, mate" I can see that. It's also worth noting that this is probably talking specifically about the rocket. I'd guess the payload and rocket are insured separately, since Space-X owns the rocket, but someone else owns the payload. IIRC that satellite was worth about $200m.
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Sep 2, 2016 17:41
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My grandfather was a Lancaster pilot in the RCAF, after first piloting the Mosquito (which apparently he really liked flying, on reading I can see why). I wish I'd gotten to know him but unfortunately he passed of a heart attack a couple years before I was born. But anyone who's seen the "Red Green Show" shouldn't be too surprised. Jury-rigging poo poo is as Canadian as ice hockey and drunken snowmobile accidents.
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Sep 2, 2016 20:49
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I can also tell you that the Australians were good at jury rigging stuff; or at least the Australian squadron flying Short Sunderlands were. The Browning .303 was kinda underwhelming for shooting down airplanes, so the Australians would swap them out with .50 cals when they could lay hands on them. When the U-boats started staying on the surface to fight back, the aussies up-gunned their Sunderland's nose turret with .50s and mounted extra guns in nose mounts to "suppress" the German gun crews.
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Sep 2, 2016 22:50
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slothrop posted:
Yep it sure does  
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Sep 2, 2016 23:35
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StandardVC10 posted:Launch insurance. I mean, I guess there's no reason why not, but I'd never thought of it before. Someone will sell insurance for virtually anything. Ship insurance used to be kind of like launch insurance is now, in the age of sail. Also, a friend of mine who is an engineer at SpaceX informs me that the pad seems to be wrecked. I think their launch timeline is probably pretty well screwed. Hauldren Collider fucked around with this message at 00:02 on Sep 3, 2016 |
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Sep 2, 2016 23:58
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Wonder if they'll change their policy on assembling the payload and fairing with the booster before static tests to save time.
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Sep 3, 2016 01:23
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Nebakenezzer posted:Nice pictures! I had no idea the Australians operated the Gannet. The Australian navy and air force post-WWII (and especially today) is more or less a shining beacon of the Mortabis Strategy: if your country isn't very important, it makes way more sense to just buy other people's stuff (mostly Spanish via Navantia and the US via a bunch of other crap) and, if you really want to, you can still build it in your own country and give it a designation like you totally made it yourself. Nobody say a word about the Collins-class. I don't have any idea if the same holds true for their army.
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Sep 3, 2016 05:04
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pretty much true for the army. we have second hand abrams as our heavy armour and build other poo poo on license.
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Sep 3, 2016 05:42
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Canadian DND shenanigans mixing with Nortel shenanigans up in here, it's peak Canada-fail http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/department-of-national-defences-new-1-billion-facility-falls-short-on-security/article31685234/ quote:The new $1-billion headquarters of the Department of National Defence is not secure enough to house top secret intelligence work and sensitive military operations because the facility at the old Nortel campus does not meet the exacting security standards of Canada’s international intelligence allies. I get a "upholder sub purchase deal" vibe from this whole plan. They're just going to keep dumping money into it, it'll leak like a sieve, and then end up hardly using any of it.
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Sep 3, 2016 05:49
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priznat posted:Canadian DND shenanigans mixing with Nortel shenanigans up in here, it's peak Canada-fail It's not peak Canada-fail until Bombardier is involved.
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Sep 3, 2016 08:44
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thatbastardken posted:pretty much true for the army. we have second hand abrams as our heavy armour and build other poo poo on license. But yours have a super rad umbrella
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Sep 3, 2016 13:40
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priznat posted:Canadian DND shenanigans mixing with Nortel shenanigans up in here, it's peak Canada-fail Amazing - let's move into the big empty building that was the haunt of Chinese spies instead of, I dunno, spending the money to do it properly Very upholder
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Sep 3, 2016 14:25
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hobbesmaster posted:It's not peak Canada-fail until Bombardier is involved. very true. I wonder who the subcontractor doing the renos/listening device removal was.. probably not Bombardier but it would be amazing if it was (and they miss 75% of devices)
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Sep 3, 2016 16:27
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Nebakenezzer posted:Amazing - let's move into the big empty building that was the haunt of Chinese spies instead of, I dunno, spending the money to do it properly Don't feel so bad, we've done that too
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Sep 3, 2016 16:37
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crosspostingmlmp08 posted:This whole album is great. It's an upload of a WW2 Aussie home defense force manual.
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Sep 3, 2016 16:40
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Build a Farraday cage dome over the campus.
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Sep 3, 2016 17:14
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Aargh posted:Yep it sure does Connies are so loving awesome. The former Air Force One Connie flew right by my campus on it's way to it's restoration hangar, that was a nice treat.
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Sep 3, 2016 17:40
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Godholio posted:Build a Farraday cage dome over the campus. If a Farraday cage gets covered with snow and ice, will it still work?
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Sep 3, 2016 17:43
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As long as it doesn't collapse, why wouldn't it?
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Sep 3, 2016 17:50
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