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Evangelicals will turn out bigly for Trump because they're all about white supremacy, and so it Trump, but Romney wasn't. If Romney had promised to bring back the days where any colored who dared question them or try to vote or stand up for themselves would end up from a tree with lots of smiling white faces surrounding them they would've turned out for him too Trabisnikof posted:I wonder how many people actually think Clinton is lying about her stance on CU. We drilled them on this too often in the primaries and now they're wise to it
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Sep 3, 2016 22:56
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readingatwork posted:Also I very clearly said people are allowed to change their minds. Then you should stop using scare-phrases like "blowing with the political winds" when you're talking about Hillary Clinton changing her mind. (What specific policy change was it you were upset about, again?) quote:Actually I'll be voting for Hillary in November. I'm just really, really unhappy about the next 4-8 years of constant triangulation to the right. Stop repeating phrases you read in comment sections; you're embarrassing yourself.
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Sep 3, 2016 22:57
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And, finally, as someone who has read the bible cover to cover, studied its interpretations and history and so on I have no earthly idea how anyone could read it Literally. For god's sake, The four most important books are different accounts of the life of Jesus. How the gently caress do you read them without realizing the way each writer's voice influences the story? 
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Sep 3, 2016 22:58
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Eifert Posting posted:And, finally, as someone who has read the bible cover to cover, studied its interpretations and history and so on I have no earthly idea how anyone could read it Literally. For god's sake, The four most important books are different accounts of the life of Jesus. How the gently caress do you read them without realizing the way each writer's voice influences the story? lol you read it to form the basis of your opinions? no wonder so much of white Christian culture is a mystery to you
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Sep 3, 2016 22:58
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Eifert Posting posted:And, finally, as someone who has read the bible cover to cover, studied its interpretations and history and so on I have no earthly idea how anyone could read it Literally. For god's sake, The four most important books are different accounts of the life of Jesus. How the gently caress do you read them without realizing the way each writer's voice influences the story? Or somehow drag out Supply Side Jesus.
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Sep 3, 2016 22:59
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Eifert Posting posted:And, finally, as someone who has read the bible cover to cover, studied its interpretations and history and so on I have no earthly idea how anyone could read it Literally. For god's sake, The four most important books are different accounts of the life of Jesus. How the gently caress do you read them without realizing the way each writer's voice influences the story? It isn't just that each writer's voice influences the story, it's that each writer is also using the story of Jesus to try to reach out to a different audience, at a different time in history. I mean, christ, there are two completely different accounts of the Garden *back to back* in Genesis, because the two stories are intended to illustrate different theological truths, and the ancients had no problem with this. Biblical literal ism is a plague.
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Sep 3, 2016 23:01
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Given that Citizens United was specifically created in response to plaintiffs who had made a movie personally insulting her, I do not think Hillary Clinton is fond of the decision. She is probably less violently angered by the principle of that decision than many leftists, but at a certain point I feel like judging someone by how incoherently furious they are about a law is not gonna get us a strong bench
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Sep 3, 2016 23:01
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FYI China is actually outsourcing some C919 (their first internally designed passenger jet) production to the United States because they don't have enough high quality production infrastructure to make everything in the country, so globalization does cut both ways
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Sep 3, 2016 23:04
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Night10194 posted:It isn't just that each writer's voice influences the story, it's that each writer is also using the story of Jesus to try to reach out to a different audience, at a different time in history. St. Augustine posted:Often, a non-Christian knows something about the earth, the heavens, and the other parts of the world, about the motions and orbits of the stars and even their sizes and distances, … and this knowledge he holds with certainty from reason and experience. It is thus offensive and disgraceful for an unbeliever to hear a Christian talk nonsense about such things, claiming that what he is saying is based in Scripture. We should do all we can to avoid such an embarrassing situation, which people see as ignorance in the Christian and laugh to scorn.
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Sep 3, 2016 23:04
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readingatwork posted:True, and I don't have a good long-term solution to that problem. That said forcing open the floodgates on trade is only accelerating things. Globalization is the direct result of Western imperialism. The working class in the Western world had ample opporunity to fight tooth and nail the oppression of foreign workers by their Western governments. We did little to nothing about it. Now opportunity costs mean that those poor people we've stolen all the resources from are a better bet for cheap labor than uneducated Western workers. You reap what you sow. A middle class American white person becoming marginally poorer so a poor African can become marginally richer is a net gain and the only reason it pisses people off is because they have the audacity to do it to white Americans. Should it be better? Should we try and ensure that its more fair? Sure. But you don't do that with protectionism, you do that with guillotines.
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Sep 3, 2016 23:08
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Lightning Knight posted:Should it be better? Should we try and ensure that its more fair? Sure. But you don't do that with protectionism, you do that with guillotines. I guess I mis-identified the Jacobin.
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Sep 3, 2016 23:13
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Eifert Posting posted:Also not an expert, but my impression is that a lot of evangelicals read the bible cover to cover but retain or understand only some portions of it. That was certainly what I gathered from the group (Cincinnati Baptists) I'm most familiar with. Well the bible is pretty long, and not only long but dense in religious context, historical context and just because it has a lot of old, difficult words in it. To really understand the bible you need years and years to understand the "true meaning". Plus there could be hundreds of theologians grognarding over the "true meaning" of this or that passage. You can read it as a lay person and collect one meaning from it, get a guided reading with some cliff notes in order to understand it better, but only from someone's interpretation, or go down the rabbit hole as a biblical scholar. We're humans. We only really have head space for portions of everything. The bible is no exception unless you have something like total recall, though if you're immersed in that sort of evangelical culture you probably remember more of it than most people because it's such a big part of your life. quote:Trump beat Cruz among evangelicals in the Republican primary, who is as much of a true believer as they come. I actually have doubts if Cruz is a true believer. He's so wrapped up in this aura of near perfect rhetoric as if every statement were delivered for the supreme court I can't tell if he's a person of faith or not. I feel like his professional persona is like a Cruz mask over his Cruz face, and I can't tell which is the mask and which is the face. I've heard that in private he's more approachable, but he seems...Not robotic, but calculated. Like some olympic level athlete, but the sport is manipulating people.
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Sep 3, 2016 23:16
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The traditional leftist argument against neoliberal globalization isn't to protect first world jobs as much as it is to give the nascent industries in developing nations you know, time to actually develop instead of flooding their markets with foreign goods they have no chance of competing with. The United States' fairly unique nexus of a well trained labor force with relatively low employment costs actually makes the country a good target to outsource expensive European and Japanese manufacturing to, which is why VW and Toyota and the like make so many cars in the southern US
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Sep 3, 2016 23:17
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Petr posted:I guess I mis-identified the Jacobin. Meh. I don't actually think violent revolution would actually work. My point is that globalization - and by extension a lot of modern problems - have been set up from centuries of oppressive policies. People bitching about globalization now, in the types of contexts we typically discuss, don't actually want to fix the problem. They're just mad it's affecting people it never used to, who typically were privileged and isolated from such things. Protectionism won't end globalization or even make people's lives better. It just lets them lash out at a system they don't understand and aren't truly interested in fixing. Any discussion of globalization needs to address the simple fact that the American working class aren't the only poor people in the equation, and foreign poor people are way worse off and need way more help. Most such discussions always wallow in the white privileged assumption that American poor people matter the most.
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Sep 3, 2016 23:21
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Ice Phisherman posted:Well the bible is pretty long, and not only long but dense in religious context, historical context and just because it has a lot of old, difficult words in it. To really understand the bible you need years and years to understand the "true meaning". . I mean, even saying there is a single true meaning is kind of insane. There are, however, certainly intended meanings or historical interpretations that can be very instructive. I liked learning that in a lot of ways, the story of Jonah is a satire of the prophetic narratives by making them be about a totally self-absorbed jerk who happens to be selected as prophet and then instructed by God through his stubbornness. It makes the story way more entertaining.
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Sep 3, 2016 23:23
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Doesn't the US have the lowest unemployment rates in decades or something? There must be some jobs left then, it's just a matter of not being payed enough right? Bible talk: I like the part where there were a great number of meetings and get-togethers over a long, long period of time, where the early christian big wigs decided on which texts should be in the bible and which ones shouldn't, complete with a editorial process on the different texts (putting in a taking out stuff), and with political sub-factions arguing for one thing or the other, depending on what benefited their specific cult. 1500 years later, let's take a literal approach to this guys! Also, let's go over every sentence in minute detail and try to determine it's true meaning, or what it could possibly mean. loving idiots.
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Sep 3, 2016 23:30
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I will never understand why they went with the Revelation of John of Patamos as the Apocalypse.
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Sep 3, 2016 23:32
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Smeef posted:We think things are crazy now, but the 70's were absolute mayhem. There were political scandals bigger than what we have today (and before people were desensitized to them), domestic terror groups setting off bombs left and right, the economy was in the shitter, the clothes... I don't know how anyone could miss the 70's. this happyhippy posted:You could buy a house before you were 35 and on one salary. and selective memory. Late gen-x and beyond weren't aware of anything before the 80's. Many people don't consider Nixon to be worse than the current offerings and would be fine with it either way if they could have a single-earner family with a house and two cars on a high school diploma.
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Sep 3, 2016 23:34
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fishmech posted:"We" didn't have that. A certain subset of white workers had that, the rest had jobs about the same as they do now, particularly non-whites. that's what I was referring to in the rest of the post, dude. It's largely irrelevant if only a small percentage of white dudes were the only ones living the dream back then, people know it was *possible* and are pissed that the dream is dead.
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Sep 3, 2016 23:37
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Mr Interweb posted:Has this video been posted? Hoooooly poo poo that is amazing. "I was told this was off the record." "I didn't agree to that." "Yeah well I did." The best people. Trump gets only the best people. Hackers can create whatever they want to create. But believe everything you see from Clinton's hacked emails. TRUST US.
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Sep 3, 2016 23:39
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It's always fun seeing Evangelicals who spend a lot of time on the grift circuit step out of the bubble for the first time, where they can be questioned or made to look unflattering and they do not have the recourse of ostracization Same thing happened to Friend Ben in the primary when he first started getting scrutiny
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Sep 3, 2016 23:42
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A Man With A Plan posted:In 2007, Oklahoma had one 3.0 magnitude earthquake. Last year, they had over 800. I lived in Dallas from 2009 go 2015 and I went from not being aware earthquakes could happen there to seeing one every couple of months. Friends of mine who live in towers in Dallas said thsir buildings were swaying with this last one, and these buildings aren't made to withstand earthquakes. Few pages back but this is crazy. I grew up in Oklahoma and in 19 years there I can't remember ever feeling an earthquake. I can't imagine anything in Oklahoma is built to withstand earthquakes. I remember when I first moved to California I thought it was amusing that people back home were always asking if I was worried about earthquakes when Oklahoma has a season every single year of natural catastrophes (tornado season) but I guess now they must be indifferent to earthquakes as well.
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Sep 3, 2016 23:42
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Revelation 2-13 posted:Doesn't the US have the lowest unemployment rates in decades or something? There must be some jobs left then, it's just a matter of not being payed enough right? More than that. Underemployment. Wage theft. Long term unemployment in certain sectors. There's also a matter of where those jobs are located. They're not exactly evenly distributed. Probably a lot more but I'm tired and missing stuff.
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Sep 3, 2016 23:44
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Ice Phisherman posted:More than that. Underemployment. Wage theft. Long term unemployment in certain sectors. There's also a matter of where those jobs are located. They're not exactly evenly distributed. Probably a lot more but I'm tired and missing stuff. Jobs are never going to be evenly distributed in a country where less than 6% of the land area holds more than 81% of the population (and even like 60 years ago it was still along the lines of 64% of the population being in less than 5% of the land area). Last time we had "jobs" even close to evenly distributed, it was when a supermajority of Americans were what amounted to barely-above-subsistence farmers working small plots.
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Sep 3, 2016 23:48
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FuzzySlippers posted:Few pages back but this is crazy. I grew up in Oklahoma and in 19 years there I can't remember ever feeling an earthquake. I can't imagine anything in Oklahoma is built to withstand earthquakes. I spent most of my formative years in Oklahoma (moved away this year) and the earthquakes are a new thing. If you moved out before 2008-2009 you probably never would have felt one.
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Sep 3, 2016 23:49
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Ice Phisherman posted:More than that. Underemployment. Wage theft. Long term unemployment in certain sectors. There's also a matter of where those jobs are located. They're not exactly evenly distributed. Probably a lot more but I'm tired and missing stuff. The thing where chronically unemployed people stop identifying as "job seekers" and are excluded from unemployment numbers.
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Sep 3, 2016 23:50
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:The thing where chronically unemployed people stop identifying as "job seekers" and are excluded from unemployment numbers. This one always made me curious. Is there a better way they could collect data on this other than hoping people volunteer the info? Honestly interested here, I don't know a lot about labor statistics collection in America.
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Sep 3, 2016 23:53
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It's also very difficult to find people who are willing to work certain kinds of jobs. Assembly jobs with good benefits but lower salaries are almost impossible to fill right now.
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Sep 3, 2016 23:53
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fishmech posted:Are you really trying to claim that because you got a decent wage at a factory now, the jobs back then all had to be good? Because that's pretty crazy dude. Tons of factory jobs back in the 50s-70s were just barely above or straight up at the minimum wage of the time. poo poo, plenty of people in factory jobs in this country today barely make over minimum wage. no, I'm not trying to claim that the 50's-70's had good jobs. The 50's-70's had increasing wages, but they started from massive poverty. What I am saying is that a few decades ago(read: the mid-late 70's) through to the present day there were/are definitely good paying factory jobs. I know that this is the case, because I have worked with people who worked in them, both now and back in the 80's.
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Sep 3, 2016 23:53
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Eifert Posting posted:It's also very difficult to find people who are willing to work certain kinds of jobs. Assembly jobs with good benefits but lower salaries are almost impossible to fill right now. To paraphrase Bioshock, everyone came to Rapture looking to become a captain of industry. They seem to have forgotten somebody has to clean the toilets. We as a society happily teach people that some jobs are "lower class" and "don't deserve respect or good pay" because it's convenient to the capitalist class. Even when said jobs are necessary. Just because picking up the garbage or driving a semi isn't as glamorous as being a doctor or lawyer doesn't make those jobs less respectable or necessary, or deserving of good pay.
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Sep 3, 2016 23:56
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Lightning Knight posted:To paraphrase Bioshock, everyone came to Rapture looking to become a captain of industry. They seem to have forgotten somebody has to clean the toilets. Basically, yeah. We punish people who do vital work with low wages for daring to not rise to whatever is considered proper at the moment.
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Sep 4, 2016 00:00
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We're visiting my Korean wife's Brazilian friends and she's 'splaining to our hosts that Trump exists because American whites have an inferiority complex from Asians being the wealthiest demographic in America... She had me up until she tied it into Asians.
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Sep 4, 2016 00:03
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The delegates are set (though alternates are welcome); come by and see what voting bloc you fall in and attempt to influence your delegate as we re-write the Constitution!! 
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Sep 4, 2016 00:04
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TeenageArchipelago posted:no, I'm not trying to claim that the 50's-70's had good jobs. The 50's-70's had increasing wages, but they started from massive poverty. What I am saying is that a few decades ago(read: the mid-late 70's) through to the present day there were/are definitely good paying factory jobs. I know that this is the case, because I have worked with people who worked in them, both now and back in the 80's. Ok, but there are also tons of low paying factory jobs throughout that time - in fact they're common! The BLS states that in 2015 the median assembly worker, for instance, made $14.46 an hour, which means half made less than that. The median goes up sharply to $23 an hour for factory machine maintenance workers, but it's a much higher skill position with much lower employment. Those who work in textile and and clothing factories in the US on the regular floor make $13 or less an hour at median wage. There's also that a lot of the higher paying positions are locked in with long time employees. And that you're still pretty hosed at a whole $14 an hour when you have the minimal benefits package allowed by law (as is common).
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Sep 4, 2016 00:05
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If you want to lock yourself in for a 20-something dollar an hour job for the rest of your life going to a community college for factory maintenance work is a really solid option. Here in the Midwest I'd say 95% of the resumes I see have like 25 or more years of work experience. The young new grads get snapped up shockingly fast. Salaries have a ceiling that they hit pretty promptly, too. If you're good with people you can also transfer that into a field service tech position and a lot of companies like to train those people into Engineering positions, or at least the Japanese companies I work with do.
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Sep 4, 2016 00:09
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Eifert Posting posted:We're visiting my Korean wife's Brazilian friends and she's 'splaining to our hosts that Trump exists because American whites have an inferiority complex from Asians being the wealthiest demographic in America... Sounds about right until the Asian focus. The traditional white America Inferority Complex extends to all other races, including the ones that were eventually folded into the generic "white" label less than a century ago.
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Sep 4, 2016 00:11
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fishmech posted:Ok, but there are also tons of low paying factory jobs throughout that time - in fact they're common! The BLS states that in 2015 the median assembly worker, for instance, made $14.46 an hour, which means half made less than that. The median goes up sharply to $23 an hour for factory machine maintenance workers, but it's a much higher skill position with much lower employment. Those who work in textile and and clothing factories in the US on the regular floor make $13 or less an hour at median wage. oh, definitely. now that I think about it, the healthcare at that place was one of two options: some fairly standard paid plan, or a free plan where the insurer covered 80% of everything. Everyone I talked to took the lovely free plan
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Sep 4, 2016 00:15
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fishmech posted:Are you really trying to claim that because you got a decent wage at a factory now, the jobs back then all had to be good? Because that's pretty crazy dude. Tons of factory jobs back in the 50s-70s were just barely above or straight up at the minimum wage of the time. poo poo, plenty of people in factory jobs in this country today barely make over minimum wage. You're talking out of your rear end dude, first claiming that Chinese factories have fewer workers than US factories and now claiming that far more workers is less effective than a 1950s factory? There are many high production industries such as footwear in which massive volumes of somewhat custom products have to be assembled by hand. Human hands and eyes are versatile, easily instructed and self correcting. Automation has a time and a place, but its not always the answer and you seem to think factories are far more automated than they actually are. OctaMurk fucked around with this message at 00:20 on Sep 4, 2016 |
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Sep 4, 2016 00:15
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OctaMurk posted:You're talking out of your rear end dude You really don't want to go down this road.
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Sep 4, 2016 00:19
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Lightning Knight posted:Globalization is the direct result of Western imperialism. The working class in the Western world had ample opporunity to fight tooth and nail the oppression of foreign workers by their Western governments. We did little to nothing about it. Now opportunity costs mean that those poor people we've stolen all the resources from are a better bet for cheap labor than uneducated Western workers. Wait, so Clinton is the Full Communism Now candidate? Or did we just step through into crazy town?
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Sep 4, 2016 00:25
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