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A friend of mine - an otherwise reasonable Clinton supporter - is convinced that even if Trump wins the election that he will be assassinated by the CIA before he even takes a step inside the White House. I know it's a conspiratorial fantasy of the powerful-men-in-smoke-filled-rooms variety, but I don't think it's entirely insane to question if the powers-that-be have existing plans to deal with a takeover of American democracy by a radical populist, a billionaire buying their way into the presidency, and/or the puppet of a foreign power. I don't know if Trump would be considered a threat, but he seems fairly radical in his determination not to listen to any experts and to run the country like his personal business. A Trump America might be somewhat of an oligarchy with Trump's friends and allies determining policy. Anyway sorry, for the  ,
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Sep 4, 2016 05:22
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AMorePerfctGoonion posted:A friend of mine - an otherwise reasonable Clinton supporter - is convinced that even if Trump wins the election that he will be assassinated by the CIA before he even takes a step inside the White House. I know it's a conspiratorial fantasy of the powerful-men-in-smoke-filled-rooms variety, but I don't think it's entirely insane to question if the powers-that-be have existing plans to deal with a takeover of American democracy by a radical populist, a billionaire buying their way into the presidency, and/or the puppet of a foreign power. I don't know if Trump would be considered a threat, but he seems fairly radical in his determination not to listen to any experts and to run the country like his personal business. A Trump America might be somewhat of an oligarchy with Trump's friends and allies determining policy. Anyway sorry, for the I'm sure there are plans, and I'm sure they're no better for democracy than the radical populists themselves.
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Sep 4, 2016 05:24
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WampaLord posted:I still have hope/thoughts that a landslide might be achieved. I think the debates will give her a significant bump, even if the media narrative after the first one is "Trump didn't poo poo himself or call her a bitch, it's a tie!" There are three debates, and by the time the third one is done, there will be a shitload of clips of Trump getting owned or him saying poo poo that is unbelievably stupid/awful. I think landslides are possible entirely by how you define landslide. As has been said, I don't think we'll see another full blue or red map in our lifetimes. But landslide in the sense of most of the board that isn't straight R hellholes? Sure. I'm not going to say that's a guarantee in this election - Clinton being within 10 points of such an obviously unfit candidate is thoroughly saddening news for this country - but in the future? Maybe.
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Sep 4, 2016 05:25
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Obama's 2012 victory was considered a landslide at 53-47. Granted, his EV margin was larger than Trump's hands are small but still. I could see Hillary topping that as Trump's ceilings like 43%.
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Sep 4, 2016 05:33
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Friendly reminder: https://twitter.com/docrocktex26/status/700345798903476224 
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Sep 4, 2016 05:48
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iospace posted:Friendly reminder: White rage on the surface and white fear behind it; they have a far too overactive amygdala. The authoritarian personality thread went more into this. Similarly, Trump voters are significantly more motivated by a fear of Clinton winning than Clinton voters are motivated by a fear of Trump despite what the media would have you believe. One reason I think illegal immigrants have become the target for so much hatred is that disenfranchised, uneducated whites fear being at the bottom of the social ladder, and if illegal immigrants are granted amnesty they will have no-one to look down on. These people want America to build a wall around itself, even on the Atlantic coast. They are driven by fear.
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Sep 4, 2016 06:24
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AMorePerfctGoonion posted:A friend of mine - an otherwise reasonable Clinton supporter - is convinced that even if Trump wins the election that he will be assassinated by the CIA before he even takes a step inside the White House. I know it's a conspiratorial fantasy of the powerful-men-in-smoke-filled-rooms variety, but I don't think it's entirely insane to question if the powers-that-be have existing plans to deal with a takeover of American democracy by a radical populist, a billionaire buying their way into the presidency, and/or the puppet of a foreign power. I don't know if Trump would be considered a threat, but he seems fairly radical in his determination not to listen to any experts and to run the country like his personal business. A Trump America might be somewhat of an oligarchy with Trump's friends and allies determining policy. Anyway sorry, for the it would be much easier and more effective for the cigarette smoking man to just isolate trump and prop him up as a useless figurehead than for him to mysteriously die, especially given the obvious that trump doesn't actually want any of the responsibility of governance
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Sep 4, 2016 06:42
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I was reading an old thread which had links to Freep. During Obama's 2008 election, they realized that Obama's victory was inevitable and cold reality set in. At the time, one freeper concludedquote:The GOP brand is badly damaged IMO. BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHA AHAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAHA hahaahahhaha
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Sep 4, 2016 06:47
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Popular Thug Drink posted:it would be much easier and more effective for the cigarette smoking man to just isolate trump and prop him up as a useless figurehead than for him to mysteriously die, especially given the obvious that trump doesn't actually want any of the responsibility of governance Trump's 70, he eats lovely food and his doctor seems to be covering up something (my bet is an STD he caught in his "personal Vietnam"). A heart attack would surprise no one, and it's easy to fake without traces. I'd rather not google the details and have to explain my search history to a homicide detective in case my boss has a heart attack.
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Sep 4, 2016 06:59
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I think illegal immigrants are disliked is because they're well, illegal.
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Sep 4, 2016 11:26
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iospace posted:Friendly reminder: I think it's a little unfair to include bernie in with those guys.
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Sep 4, 2016 11:26
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Josef bugman posted:I think it's a little unfair to include bernie in with those guys. Is it? His campaign was mostly directed at leftist white people.
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Sep 4, 2016 11:34
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amuayse posted:I think illegal immigrants are disliked is because they're well, illegal. Focusing on their illegality merely provides a nice front for bigotry, like people excuse anti-black racism as merely criticism of their culture and anti-Arabism as criticism of their religion. In all these cases I'm sure some people do have valid criticisms, but unfortunately it's drowned out by the bigots who are using it as a convenient excuse. If this is all about their legal status, why are they hated to such an extent that people are clamouring to build a wall that will cost hundreds of billions to build, and a billion to maintain? Why do people want to deport them all when they benefit the economy? And why do so many support someone who repeatedly tells malicious lies about them? Why aren't people also angry at the US companies that benefit from the labor of illegal immigrants? Is there a movement to buy only products that were not made by illegal immigrants? Just look at the people who go to Trump rallies. And nobody seems to care about certain forms of illegal immigration involving white people, such as was committed by Trump's modelling agency and his own wife. Why is there suddenly a crisis now when the undocumented population is at it's lowest in a decade?
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Sep 4, 2016 11:47
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I would like to give the @NPR twitter an award for posting the article about how the stupid Clinton health rumors are gaining traction only through mindless repetition about ten times in a row
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Sep 4, 2016 12:04
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Air is lava! posted:Is it? His campaign was mostly directed at leftist white people. It seemed as if it was directed at a lot of people, just without a lot of the structural success/campaigning of Clinton. Would it be germane to say that there was not enough courting of African American people by the campaign? I'd personally say "yes". But to classify the man himself along with Trump and the GOP? That's just insulting. It also meand that if he is in those catergories why would Clinton take a fair few of the ideas he supported and made them part of the official Dem platform? edited for clarity! Josef bugman fucked around with this message at 12:10 on Sep 4, 2016 |
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Sep 4, 2016 12:06
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Josef bugman posted:It seemed as if it was directed at a lot of people, just without a lot of the structural success/campaigning of Clinton. Would it be germane to say that there was not enough courting of African American people by the campaign? I'd personally say "yes". But to classify the man himself along with Trump and the GOP? That's just insulting. It also meant that if he is in those categories why would Clinton take a fair few of the ideas he supported and made them part of the official Dem platform? In that same way, it's an insult to claim that he's running with the party of Lincoln.
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Sep 4, 2016 12:25
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edrith posted:I would like to give the @NPR twitter an award for posting the article about how the stupid Clinton health rumors are gaining traction only through mindless repetition about ten times in a row I think this is what's really starting to piss me off at this point. Trump doesn't need to fund raise for television spots since pretty much the entire media is running the negative ads on Clinton that normally a candidate would be spending money on, many of which are blatantly false. Noted ultra liberal socialist NPR is more or less ignoring the fact that a white supremacist is running the Trump campaign while praising that guy's ability to get Trump in a room with black people and not exploding or kicking them out of their homes.
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Sep 4, 2016 12:35
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Josef bugman posted:I think it's a little unfair to include bernie in with those guys. In terms of strategy he's right there targeting mostly white people(albeit progressives). In terms of him being a white supremacist of course not. Bernie specifically targeted white progressives. Hillary stayed going to black churches in black communities speaking to black journalists. As corny as she comes off and as much as she gets hit with "PANDER PANDER PANDER" she went hard as hell after us from p much jump street. Dexo fucked around with this message at 13:00 on Sep 4, 2016 |
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Sep 4, 2016 12:57
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AMorePerfctGoonion posted:White rage on the surface and white fear behind it; they have a far too overactive amygdala. The authoritarian personality thread went more into this. Similarly, Trump voters are significantly more motivated by a fear of Clinton winning than Clinton voters are motivated by a fear of Trump despite what the media would have you believe. One reason I think illegal immigrants have become the target for so much hatred is that disenfranchised, uneducated whites fear being at the bottom of the social ladder, and if illegal immigrants are granted amnesty they will have no-one to look down on. These people want America to build a wall around itself, even on the Atlantic coast. They are driven by fear. Conservative media more than proves how big fear is as a motivator to the traditional, fearful white conservative voter, yes. Trump's entire personality and history is ignored by his support because he promises them safety from the Other. Thankfully, the demographics have finally changed enough that this isn't a winning strategy despite how much the media likes to pretend it is.
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Sep 4, 2016 13:00
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The real problem is no one gives a gently caress about poor white people. Poor Black people have a harder time getting out of poverty than poor whites, but at least Black people have in theory(they do occasionally sell us the gently caress out) groups and orgs that lobby for them and have a ton of sway at least in the Democratic party. Poor whites have jack poo poo. The party that generally seeks their votes actually doesn't give a poo poo about them but is just really good at messaging and deflecting blame elsewhere. That fear gets used and then the party they vote for is gonna cut the safety nets that they need. Dexo fucked around with this message at 13:09 on Sep 4, 2016 |
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Sep 4, 2016 13:07
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We did this discussion last month and went with "who loving cares" 53% to 47.
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Sep 4, 2016 13:19
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You wanna know a real good way on forums to stop a discussion you don't like or think is interesting bring up something else. We all have short attention spans. Posting about what other people are posting is rarely useful. (yes i am well aware)
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Sep 4, 2016 13:26
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Dexo posted:The real problem is no one gives a gently caress about poor white people. This is particularly pertinent in gubernatorial elections, like in Kansas and Louisiana. In Maryland, our governor elected on making the state more "efficient" recently moved the school start date to after labor day so that "families can spend more time together." Sure as poo poo wasn't talking about working class families.
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Sep 4, 2016 13:31
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I've been ranting for some time to anyone who will listen about the paper by Angus Deayton arguing that various social and economic forces have created a new middle-aged white underclass who are literally dying of despair by suicide and drug abuse. Of course blacks still have higher mortality, but it is improving rather than getting worse. This is, in fact, the only demographic whose mortality has actually increased.
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Sep 4, 2016 13:35
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Theris posted:I don't think an 84/88 level EC landslide is even possible anymore. Like the second coming of Christ would have trouble breaking 400 EVs vs resurrected Literal Hitler.
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Sep 4, 2016 13:41
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AMorePerfctGoonion posted:Why do people want to deport them all when they benefit the economy? Poor people and the working class do not benifit from immigration at all. Coupled with globalization, immigration is used to keep wages at a rock bottom level. Do you guys realise that the evil corporations and capitalists that yall hate so much are actually lobbying hard for this?
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Sep 4, 2016 13:59
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smoke sumthin bitch posted:Poor people and the working class do not benifit from immigration at all. Coupled with globalization, immigration is used to keep wages at a rock bottom level. Do you guys realise that the evil corporations and capitalists that yall hate so much are actually lobbying hard for this? Nice, not even hiding behind the 'illegal' adjective.
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Sep 4, 2016 14:08
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Meanwhile, in bizarro world: https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/772417922279043073
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Sep 4, 2016 14:20
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I know he means Hillary with "Crooked's" but it looks like he's calling the FBI crooked.
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Sep 4, 2016 14:27
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canepazzo posted:Meanwhile, in bizarro world: This was a key post because of the Vic Berger song in the comments
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Sep 4, 2016 14:27
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Radish posted:I think this is what's really starting to piss me off at this point. Trump doesn't need to fund raise for television spots since pretty much the entire media is running the negative ads on Clinton that normally a candidate would be spending money on, many of which are blatantly false. Noted ultra liberal socialist NPR is more or less ignoring the fact that a white supremacist is running the Trump campaign while praising that guy's ability to get Trump in a room with black people and not exploding or kicking them out of their homes. I hate to do this, /again/, but NPR's republican slant is because a republican controlled congress repeatedly threatens to pull the plug on them if they get too far left. It's a feature, not a bug, and one put in to save their own rear end because the GOP can't have any government funded institution be against them ever.
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Sep 4, 2016 14:32
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canepazzo posted:Meanwhile, in bizarro world: If he wins, at least we will have the fun in watching the media either prostrate themselves like a beaten sex slave, or suffer access denials and open insults from the Donald. But most likely, when he loses, the media that he has insulted will pile on the 'gently caress you back Trump' articles.
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Sep 4, 2016 14:32
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Here's my question: One candidate openly insults the press, the other ignores them, but doesn't insult them. Why the gently caress do they treat them the same outside of "horserace"? e: Jeff Flake (AZ Senator) refuses to endorse and says he will not vote Trump: https://twitter.com/jdelreal/status/772427737822797824
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Sep 4, 2016 14:35
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happyhippy posted:If he wins, at least we will have the fun in watching the media either prostrate themselves like a beaten sex slave, or suffer access denials and open insults from the Donald. What's this fantasy world you live in where the media is going to do that? If anything, him attacking them just makes them more desperate to please him. Here's some NYT reporting on why Hillary is bad while they continue not giving a poo poo that Trump's foundation more or less bribed multiple AGs into not investigating his scam university: https://twitter.com/glastris/status/772416076844064768 It's mind-boggling how anyone who follows this election can maintain the illusion that the media can/will do whatever they need to do to bring him down. WaPo is the only one doing its job this year.
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Sep 4, 2016 14:36
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iospace posted:Here's my question: One candidate openly insults the press, the other ignores them, but doesn't insult them. There is a long-running feud between Hillary Clinton and the media that leads to both sides treating the other like garbage. The only real difference is that Hillary is right because the media actually is garbage. http://www.vox.com/2015/7/6/8900143/hillary-clinton-reporting-rules
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Sep 4, 2016 14:37
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Dr.Zeppelin posted:What's this fantasy world you live in where the media is going to do that? If anything, him attacking them just makes them more desperate to please him. Here's some NYT reporting on why Hillary is bad while they continue not giving a poo poo that Trump's foundation more or less bribed multiple AGs into not investigating his scam university: Didn't Trump get caught doing an actual pay-to-play thing and the media let it slide?
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Sep 4, 2016 14:38
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Zanzibar Ham posted:Nice, not even hiding behind the 'illegal' adjective. The article he was responding to literally points out that undocumented immigrants depress wages for the lowest class of workers in the US. Not to mention the ethical issues of paying these people less than we'd pay US citizens. Like, that whole article boils down to saying that having an underclass is good because it's economically beneficial to the higher rungs of society.
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Sep 4, 2016 14:39
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iospace posted:Here's my question: One candidate openly insults the press, the other ignores them, but doesn't insult them. a) the media isn't actually as liberal as people pretend it is b) actual liberals in the media often overcompensate for their own perceived biases and trash liberals/Democrats to prove how neutral they are c) media people LOVE it when they get to be part of the story so being ignored is way worse to them than being attacked d) Hillary press pool is watching their professional colleagues on the Trump beat get way way way more attention paid to them because of how many more stories they have, Hillary beat reporters probably feel like Hillary's refusal to engage with them is actively hurting their own careers and are lashing out at her in response e) the media completely bought in to fringe right-wing conspiracy-mongering in the 90s and all had starry-eyed illusions that they would get to be the one to break the next watergate - when it didn't happen they blamed the Clintons for not being dirty enough rather than Matt Drudge et al leading them by the nose to one idiot conspiracy theory after another f) because of GOP ref-working over the last 30 years, when a Republican says "where there's smoke, there's fire" while visibly pointing a smoke machine in the direction of a Clinton, the media can't help but chase the shiny ball because to them an argument means a story
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Sep 4, 2016 14:41
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AMorePerfctGoonion posted:That said, continued automation will eliminate repetitive unskilled labor but will create new industries programming the devices and maintaining them. Not to go into particulars, but I think the automation of logistics will make truck driving if not redundant much less labour-intensive. We should be trying to anticipate the future by increasing technical education instead of looking backwards to a time that never really existed anyway. CGP Grey did a video on this - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Pq-S557XQU. The short of it is, even programming jobs will be automated. The nature of work will fundamentally shift in our lifetime.
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Sep 4, 2016 14:42
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iospace posted:Didn't Trump get caught doing an actual pay-to-play thing and the media let it slide? Well have you heard what they say Clinton's been up to? That's what I'd call corruption if it actually happened.
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Sep 4, 2016 14:43
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